God requires that I be "right" when it comes to my walk with Him. He wants me to especially keep working on being "right" with Him when I fail.
Do I believe that what I believe is right and right for many--of course, pointless to believe in what I believe if I didn't.
BUt there is an extremely fine line between my believing that:
1) the LDS church is right and sharing that belief with others
AND
2) I have a mandate from God that requires that I keep speaking my message until I have forced you to agree and convert or flee in panic at which point I in a fit of self justification can declare that you will not recieve exaltation in the celestial kingdom.
It is that most fine of lines that people often step over, often inadvertantly when talking about God and His son Jesus Christ. The first permits all to exercise their freedom of choice. It was the issue of freedom of choice that led to Lucifer leading a third of the heavenly host away from Heavenly Father. The second tries to deny that same freedom of choice by threats and intimidation.
Threats and intimidation render that which should be good into that which can be evil.
Stating one's opinion doesn't get us in trouble. For example, in my opinion, VPW was a lying, manipulating predator who abused God's people to satisfy his lust for power, sex and money. See, no trouble here.
If someone wants to call him "the man of God," that's their dementia. More powerless to them!
You do have a way with words, my dear man. It's just unfortunate you don't publish your stuff.
No problem stating opinion...even when one believes that VPW or whoever is the man of God.
Should be NO problem then in a free forum if someone challenges the opinion, is there? Mine is challenged all the time.
Of course there's no problem Eagle to challenge someone's opinion. Maybe it was just the tone of your challenge that could be a problem. I suppose. if you would have just asked the man why he thought VP was a "Man of God" it would have come across more as you being curious instead of eager to attack. But what the heck do I know -- other than how I see things and I've been told so many times that I'm blind that sometimes I feel like that's not a bad condition to be afflicted with.
Groucho, if that's a question you've asked the wrong one. You should have been more curious as to why I thought it was unfortunate that his stuff wasn't published. But don't ask me now. Let him do so if he's so inclined.
Nope, I don't. Thanks for the links but, if I can expect to read more of the same from him that I've read in the post that I responded to, I would have to have an extreme case of diarrhea and completely out of toilet paper.
Larry, I'm just looking for clarification here. Who were you referring to when you said back in post #30:
It appears like you were talking to Raf - who does indeed publish his work. And I saw no question when Groucho wrote, "He does...."
But then later the subject turns to Mike (of course not by your hand.)
No argument here - just looking for what's going on...
+
You might have noticed that I actually use my given name to post. It's easier to remember who I am. ;) I don't usually commit to memory the actual names of those who choose to post with screen IDs and therefore I really wouldn't know if Raf happens to be John or Tom or Pete or whatever. In that Groucho followed up my post with what might be considered a question (related to my comment) and then someone else followed that up by referring to Mike I assumed that they were one and the same. My mistake.
The answer to the core question is the obvious stereotypical.. "Never". No individual on the face of this planet has an identical mindset, it is impossible for any 2 people on this planet to lead the same life, even "identical" twins are instilled with different chemical components.. So therefore, the truth will always be customized to the individual, because we all have different walks and need whatever truth that is to pertain to us. We had it rammed in our heads daily, "MAKE THE WORD YOUR OWN" The single most hypocritical phrase to proceed from the mouths of a cult, me thinks. But, no matter your intentions, you can never force someone to believe the same EXACT way as you, or the next.. eerily similar yes, but whatever portion that person needs to skew, will be brought about in their interpretation justly. It can be argued however by statistics, somewhat, of WHAT could be "right" is how the majority of umbrella spiritual philosophies camp a certain point.
But alas, like any and every idea that cannot be proven by concrete scientific data embossed in 12 inch glass behind a velvet rope, this is all IMPO...
Mike and I are definitely two different people. I am heavily critical of Mike, who tends to let such criticism roll off his back. I have a unilateral non-aggression policy toward Mike now on the assumption our opposition to each other's views is very well known.
I am a journalist. I used to be a reporter and was part of a team nominated for the Pulitzer Prize twice (for hurricane coverage in South Florida). My writing appeared in print for the better part of 12 years. I now assist other writers in getting their stories in print.
HI Ajern, your point is well taken. The variations we bring to anything guarantee that each one of us will have different views of the same thing, even when we agree on our understanding of whatever it is. The variables aren't in the thing considered, they're in us.
One of the things I've learned reading GS is that this is in fact very true. For many years everyone in the Way said they were "likeminded", yet I read differences all the time here in how people understood the same things, the same teachings, etc. This from a time when there was supposedly "agreement". Sometimes (and I don't mean this disparagingly) it seems we weren't even hearing the same things, yet we were.
There is unity of the "spirit", where what's shared is part of the same thing - the spirit of God. There can be an "equal-soul"ed quality to life but right there we're not sharing the same thing. If the soul signifies what each of us have that makes up our own lives, they're very different. That's my impression, at any rate. The very nature of our lives and relationship with God and Christ is individual and is maintained individually. The relationship we all have as a "body" is maintained by a consistent thing - God in Christ in us.
We can agree on lots of things I think, as long as we agree that we'll be different. We can each pray, love, learn.
Maybe the slogan for "agreement" should be "Can We Get A Little Space Here Please!"
Recommended Posts
ChasUFarley
Maybe you're thinking of the leach system out back?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
templelady
God requires that I be "right" when it comes to my walk with Him. He wants me to especially keep working on being "right" with Him when I fail.
Do I believe that what I believe is right and right for many--of course, pointless to believe in what I believe if I didn't.
BUt there is an extremely fine line between my believing that:
1) the LDS church is right and sharing that belief with others
AND
2) I have a mandate from God that requires that I keep speaking my message until I have forced you to agree and convert or flee in panic at which point I in a fit of self justification can declare that you will not recieve exaltation in the celestial kingdom.
It is that most fine of lines that people often step over, often inadvertantly when talking about God and His son Jesus Christ. The first permits all to exercise their freedom of choice. It was the issue of freedom of choice that led to Lucifer leading a third of the heavenly host away from Heavenly Father. The second tries to deny that same freedom of choice by threats and intimidation.
Threats and intimidation render that which should be good into that which can be evil.
Just my opinion.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
and let s not forget...Mike, who hangs his hat on every word that proceeded out of the holy mouth of the cornfield prescher...
...and yes Mo, I agree with what you say...(in spite of my sarcastic nature)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
He does...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
Of course there's no problem Eagle to challenge someone's opinion. Maybe it was just the tone of your challenge that could be a problem. I suppose. if you would have just asked the man why he thought VP was a "Man of God" it would have come across more as you being curious instead of eager to attack. But what the heck do I know -- other than how I see things and I've been told so many times that I'm blind that sometimes I feel like that's not a bad condition to be afflicted with.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
And get's nominated for a Nobel prize in news reporting, while he's at it!!
Edited by dmillerLink to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
Groucho, if that's a question you've asked the wrong one. You should have been more curious as to why I thought it was unfortunate that his stuff wasn't published. But don't ask me now. Let him do so if he's so inclined.
Edited by Larry N MooreLink to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Larry -- You must not know who Mike is. :)
If you want to read ONE OF HIS THREADS, click the link.
(Oh -- it's 102 pages long).
HERE'S A SHORTER ONE, with only 42 pages.
Happy reading! ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
Nope, I don't. Thanks for the links but, if I can expect to read more of the same from him that I've read in the post that I responded to, I would have to have an extreme case of diarrhea and completely out of toilet paper.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Larry, I'm just looking for clarification here. Who were you referring to when you said back in post #30:
It appears like you were talking to Raf - who does indeed publish his work. And I saw no question when Groucho wrote, "He does...."
But then later the subject turns to Mike (of course not by your hand.)
No argument here - just looking for what's going on...
+
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
You might have noticed that I actually use my given name to post. It's easier to remember who I am. ;) I don't usually commit to memory the actual names of those who choose to post with screen IDs and therefore I really wouldn't know if Raf happens to be John or Tom or Pete or whatever. In that Groucho followed up my post with what might be considered a question (related to my comment) and then someone else followed that up by referring to Mike I assumed that they were one and the same. My mistake.
Is that clarification enuf for you?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Works for me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry N Moore
:) Thanks doojable. Have a good night. This sleepy head is off to bed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
OR... to put this very point in different words... WHEN HELL FREEZES OVER.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AJern
The answer to the core question is the obvious stereotypical.. "Never". No individual on the face of this planet has an identical mindset, it is impossible for any 2 people on this planet to lead the same life, even "identical" twins are instilled with different chemical components.. So therefore, the truth will always be customized to the individual, because we all have different walks and need whatever truth that is to pertain to us. We had it rammed in our heads daily, "MAKE THE WORD YOUR OWN" The single most hypocritical phrase to proceed from the mouths of a cult, me thinks. But, no matter your intentions, you can never force someone to believe the same EXACT way as you, or the next.. eerily similar yes, but whatever portion that person needs to skew, will be brought about in their interpretation justly. It can be argued however by statistics, somewhat, of WHAT could be "right" is how the majority of umbrella spiritual philosophies camp a certain point.
But alas, like any and every idea that cannot be proven by concrete scientific data embossed in 12 inch glass behind a velvet rope, this is all IMPO...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Quick Primer:
Mike and I are definitely two different people. I am heavily critical of Mike, who tends to let such criticism roll off his back. I have a unilateral non-aggression policy toward Mike now on the assumption our opposition to each other's views is very well known.
I am a journalist. I used to be a reporter and was part of a team nominated for the Pulitzer Prize twice (for hurricane coverage in South Florida). My writing appeared in print for the better part of 12 years. I now assist other writers in getting their stories in print.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
HI Ajern, your point is well taken. The variations we bring to anything guarantee that each one of us will have different views of the same thing, even when we agree on our understanding of whatever it is. The variables aren't in the thing considered, they're in us.
One of the things I've learned reading GS is that this is in fact very true. For many years everyone in the Way said they were "likeminded", yet I read differences all the time here in how people understood the same things, the same teachings, etc. This from a time when there was supposedly "agreement". Sometimes (and I don't mean this disparagingly) it seems we weren't even hearing the same things, yet we were.
There is unity of the "spirit", where what's shared is part of the same thing - the spirit of God. There can be an "equal-soul"ed quality to life but right there we're not sharing the same thing. If the soul signifies what each of us have that makes up our own lives, they're very different. That's my impression, at any rate. The very nature of our lives and relationship with God and Christ is individual and is maintained individually. The relationship we all have as a "body" is maintained by a consistent thing - God in Christ in us.
We can agree on lots of things I think, as long as we agree that we'll be different.
We can each pray, love, learn.
Maybe the slogan for "agreement" should be "Can We Get A Little Space Here Please!"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
According to the New York Daily News, Hell froze over in October of 2004.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Abigail
Actually, it freezes over every winter. You have to come check out a "hell froze over in Michigan" festival sometime
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Eagle
Larry,
Point taken. Thanks.
Guys, I think when he meant Raf should publish his stuff, he was speaking about his biblical views and work and not news.
I think.
Eagle
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.