After wierwille had built his yes-men enclave (a subset of corps leadership)...and had a motorcoach to conceal his lusts/predation....and cunningly crafted his stage persona....HIS UNBRIDLED, SELF-GRATIFICATION CAME TO THE FOREFRONT.
You vpw-defenders can hold onto your idol-like adulation for wierwille all you want, but you are only deceiving yourselves. Personally, I don't give a d@mn.
I spent 24 years defending twi and the man who taught me pfal......yet, before a court of law I can honestly say that I suppressed DOZENS OF INCIDENTS that were very questionable behavior, and outlandish reproof sessions that made me secretly think that wierwille was periodically possessed by devil spirits. I've shared THREE such incidents on GS before....so I'll refrain from them.
And, yes.....I've been on the receiving end of wierwille's contempt and thrashing reproof. It wasn't pretty...and I can't imagine what it must have been like for those girls who wierwille raped...!!!!!
Imagine....22 years of silence, a wonderful family broken by wierwille and his silencers, verbally attacking catcup (a corps student requesting answers)......TALK ABOUT SHATTERING THE SILENCE OF A CULT'S PREDATION AMONG US...!!!
Catcup.....thanks for your contributions to GS. I appreciate it and have always been impressed by strength and warmth to encourage others.
He started out with a lot of potential. His first test of wisdom right out of the box was amazing.
Yes, he is credited with having penned, Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes and Proverbs. One might assume that he repented many times during his life of various sins...
I know his major sin - at least the one most harp on - was idolotry (not rape) as I recall. He had many. many wives. He apparently liked the pagan idea of a harem. Are you equating this with vpw's lust for young girls?
Connect the dots for me please...
Here we go:
First dot: Solomon repented, and wrote so eloquently about his repentance God saw fit to memorialize it for all time.
Second dot: Victor Paul Wierwille NEVER DID. All he could do is admit he didn't have the courage to do what he knew was right.
if i had not gotten involved with twi what happened to me and my family would not have happened.
and my story is so horrid i will not share it on the internet because of the manner and style it is what it is.
it in fact took me twenty years to even tell a complete stranger what happened to us and she was indeed a nut case who had just told me she was a true nut acse and wanted me to love her. so she was the first time i ever told somone outside those who think they knew .
odd how that happened but anyhow.
many thought they had the whole spin ya know and would procede to tell me how it happened and what happened and they were not even remotely close to the truth but they were convinced they knew the truth better than me the one it acutaly happened to.
i see this on grease spot today.
so i do not share here.
but i do not blame twi.
nor do i blame the person who victimized us.
i do not think it would have helped me , yes i did have years of rage but i did what i needed to do to take care of the problem and i have no regrets.
and that is why i think of people who say they couldnt hear their sisters pain over the roar of the mininstry, people who stayed being hurt and knowing it was wrong for them.
i do not get that either. i did take personal accoutability and did all i could to repair AFTER the damage was done . and i think i blamed myself for many years in stead of anyone or group.
but not today if i went back and said i never should have gotten involved it never would have happened, well anyone beyond middle age knows that is just a foolish game that makes for a very bitter filled life.
it did happenen and it happened in a ministry that said they stood with God.
it drew me closer to who Jesus a mighty Christ is and it has been a very very long distance and road. im not always happy but i have found some degree of peace in life and i often look around and feel thankful .
see i do not know what life would have been like without this fact we got hurt badly. but i see plenty of testimony of hate here and see zero peace in that .
IN the news today a family had their three year old son eaten by their new dog. omg
i bet they have regrets too, do we all? i think so... the blame game doesnt work for me, i think in a sense for me to forgive my own self for the trouble i got into i had to forgive them if you can understand that you understand me.
After wierwille had built his yes-men enclave (a subset of corps leadership)...and had a motorcoach to conceal his lusts/predation....and cunningly crafted his stage persona....HIS UNBRIDLED, SELF-GRATIFICATION CAME TO THE FOREFRONT.
You vpw-defenders can hold onto your idol-like adulation for wierwille all you want, but you are only deceiving yourselves. Personally, I don't give a d@mn.
I spent 24 years defending twi and the man who taught me pfal......yet, before a court of law I can honestly say that I suppressed DOZENS OF INCIDENTS that were very questionable behavior, and outlandish reproof sessions that made me secretly think that wierwille was periodically possessed by devil spirits. I've shared THREE such incidents on GS before....so I'll refrain from them.
And, yes.....I've been on the receiving end of wierwille's contempt and thrashing reproof. It wasn't pretty...and I can't imagine what it must have been like for those girls who wierwille raped...!!!!!
Imagine....22 years of silence, a wonderful family broken by wierwille and his silencers, verbally attacking catcup (a corps student requesting answers)......TALK ABOUT SHATTERING THE SILENCE OF A CULT'S PREDATION AMONG US...!!!
Catcup.....thanks for your contributions to GS. I appreciate it and have always been impressed by strength and warmth to encourage others.
Thanks again.
You're welcome Sky.
As you know, it was not fun to have to stand before the wrath of Victor Paul Wierwille.
But I am glad that I will be standing in my own shoes when I stand before God, and not his.
It is never easy to drag this all up again. But the way the worm turned here proved the point.
The attitude of the predator was propagated in his own image in those who defend his actions and deny what these women went through.
My undying admiration is reserved for those brave souls who not only survived, but find the strength every morning to get up and live and breathe anyway, in spite of what happened.
White Dove, you (in your own words) are describing the person and the "ministry" that you and others defend and revere... can you believe that? Why?
Tom you apparently have not read my posts I did not defend any ministry, can you cite a quote here where I have. I only requested that stories and opinions not be treated as facts or truth until they have been verified which by the way does not mean that's my opinion so it's verified.
VP screwed her after she came back a second time, a day after she was drugged.
She was not under the influence of drugs the second time.
Am I missing something?
"Am I missing something?"!!!!
Duh!!!---- I think you are.
VP screwed her( sorry for the graphic description.). Drugs, no drugs. Consent, no consent. Those are moot points used to justify the wrong he did as a married man and as a representative of God who was supposed to live a life that was beyond reproach.
Oh, well, he made a mistake.--------
You're damn right he made a mistake, he led thousands of unsuspecting people to believe he had some special connection to God Almighty.IMO, I don't believe he had any more connection than any of us, maybe even LESS.).
VPW= King Solomon---------- Now that's a really good punch line. Too bad there really is no joke that could properly precede it.
it wont happen such was and is the mentality of people, in the cult.
I wish i could explain to you what it is like to be marked and avoided shunned by the very people who you for the most part lived with and about daily for years.
years later or even months I walking down the street being TOLD what happened to me and my life!!!!
hello it is me IM the one your using as a subject here!!! hello helllo not even a chance they would listen!!
people in a cult convince themself of ridciulas excuses and answer for doing and living and being for so long they really do lose the ability to hear the truth of a situation if it doesnt fit with how they justify their own head and thought and actions in life. .
this happened to me white dove and at first I was shocked and it showed me just how stuck peoplel can get processing the stuff we did.
twi was not a butch of truth seekers hell no it was truly a mind set of fear and who is who and all in the name of speaking for God.
scary stuff.
since i have left my biggest struggle in life is truly trusting people , i think many of us struggle with that fact.
and it isnt just because others lied to us it is because we lied to our own self , it shatters the ability to look at a situation without a serious spin no matter how insane it really is.
it takes alot to get over and many here are still working on that part of life.
This is why it is rape: This is why her judgement was not clear: This is why there are professional codes of conduct regarding superiors and subordinates, doctors and patients, students and teachers.
This has to be like the third time I have posted this link.
It is being ignored.
No one is ignoring your link it's another opinion which one can subscribe to or not. You do because it fits your purpose it's not the all in all answer who made her the only authority? That would be a fine theory if no one ever walked away and said no enough is enough but many did. Apparently they were not all turned into robotic zombies that must obey by the all mighty power and authority, or perhaps they just exercised some common sense or maybe Gee....... here is a thought some biblical sense. Now what ever will we do with those who don't fit in her pat theory?
First dot: Solomon repented, and wrote so eloquently about his repentance God saw fit to memorialize it for all time.
Second dot: Victor Paul Wierwille NEVER DID. All he could do is admit he didn't have the courage to do what he knew was right.
Thanks Catcup - I had those dots already... ;)
I wanted to see what dots Oldies could pull out of his syllabi...
AND...
I also want to say...
It's very easy to sit at your computer here 20 or 30 years later and say,"That girl should have..." or "Why didn't she..." or "Too bad she didn't have the guts to..."
Twenty or thirty years of hindsight and growth, twenty or thirty years of maturity and living and perspective make lots of things crystal clear.
How many of you fifty-something men out there would even think about doing half of what vpw has been accused of? I'd venture to say (hopefully!) NONE!
You can sit there and pontificate all you want - it doesn't change a darn thing for those women. And yes, those gals DO have to live with the "Why didn't I just..." "I should have..." "If only I had the guts to..." Some of those women arent' alive at all.
So what? BFD? Does that make it all okay? What good does it do to cover over the deed with "Well that guy did it too..."(whilst pointing to the table where your Bible is.)
Here's an assignment for you, take the stories you love to pick apart and put the names of your wives, mothers, sisters and daughters in place of the authors. Then come back here and tell me how vpw wasn't any different from your favorite example of a Bible hero that was a fallen man. (Here's a clue - EVERYONE'S a fallen person - it's just that some don't try to pretend they're God Almighty to cover for their sins.)
No one is ignoring your link it's another opinion which one can subscribe to or not. You do because it fits your purpose it's not the all in all answer who made her the only authority? That would be a fine theory if no one ever walked away and said no enough is enough but many did. Apparently they were not all turned into robotic zombies that must obey by the all mighty power and authority, or perhaps they just exercised some common sense or maybe Gee....... here is a thought some biblical sense. Now what ever will we do with those who don't fit in her pat theory?
It's not a "pat theory" Dove, it is accepted among medical institutions, institutions of higher learning, and yes, even churches.
The standard of professional behavior among the relationships previously mentioned is based upon the knowledge of this kind of problem which can occur.
Well i did just that i was marked and avoided for speaking up .
sounds like a good thing now. almost thirty years later.
but let me say whether you chose to believe it or not it also destroyed many many years of MY life.
i for years thought God was angry at me i was a lesser not funny for a cult girl .
sooooooooo white dove i did do "the right thing" in your eyes and i also suffered alot for it. so did my family.
that is why i can not judge those who did put up with abuse, i do not get it but i cant judge it.
Truth is always a good thing and no one ever said the path was an easy one, but in the end we all stand accountable for our actions was it talk or walk? Those who follow the path can and face the person in the mirrorand be at peace knowing they did the right thing.
some of the stuff people go through in life is not understood.
so who can explain it?
except the mouse he shows a good lesson in life ask and you shall recieve , the thing is if you ask in judgement or think they must be lying because you do not understand it can not be explained to you. ya know?
It's not a "pat theory" Dove, it is accepted among medical institutions, institutions of higher learning, and yes, even churches.
The standard of professional behavior among the relationships previously mentioned is based upon the knowledge of this kind of problem which can occur.
Yes, you are ignoring that.
No one argued that it was ethical that does not make it rape nor does it make it impossible to resist it's easy to hold someone else accountable for your actions but we all have free will.
Well i did just that i was marked and avoided for speaking up .
sounds like a good thing now. almost thirty years later.
but let me say whether you chose to believe it or not it also destroyed many many years of MY life.
i for years thought God was angry at me i was a lesser not funny for a cult girl .
sooooooooo white dove i did do "the right thing" in your eyes and i also suffered alot for it. so did my family.
that is why i can not judge those who did put up with abuse, i do not get it but i cant judge it.
Truth is always a good thing and no one ever said the path was an easy one, but in the end we all stand accountable for our actions was it talk or walk? Those who follow the path can and face the person in the mirrorand be at peace knowing they did the right thing.
sure when it all goes good.
i for one I guess have made mistakes in life. Im glad life went so smooth for you that you never had to say OH CRAP I WAS wrong on that one! Just what do you need the grace of God for then?
it didnt go as planned and believe it or not at times I have been at the very mercy of what OTHERS have done to me.
guess what? people i love got hurt badly innocent people who didnt deserve my own ignorance or stupid choices GOT HURT and I think it should hurt every single darn time I look in the mirror so much it will not happen again!!!!
it hurts enough for me to get on my knees and pray every single day prauy for forgivness and for strength and for wisdom .
I think that one of the other wonderful things that I learned in PFAL is that it is NEVER God's will for us as His children to be sick or to be killed. I can't count the times when my own dear sweet Mother would say things like; I guess we just have to accept God's will on this thing, like when someone was deathly ill or something. In fact, when my big brother Miles was called up as #31 (March 17th-St Paddy's Day) for the draft during that "draft lottery" (was that 1970?), when he went for his physical, dutifully ready to serve his country in Viet Nam, the doctors discovered that he had cancer. And so, they operated and pulled a fist sized tumor out from behind his left shoulder blade. And the prognosis was that regardless of the fact that they had "cut the cancer out" (I don't think he did chemo or radiation therapy), that he had at most, eight months to live. And I remember my Mom telling me that it was God's will and that for some reason He was "calling Miles home to heaven", and that we just had to accept it.
Miles was nineteen, and I was twelve, and I remember standing at his bedside in post op telling him that I was sorry that he was going to die (real tactful little brother!), and Miles just said; "Naa, I'm not gonna die Kev". And I told him that Mom said that it was God's will, and Miles said; "Yeah? She said that? "Well, he went on; "I don't care if it's God's will or not! I'm not gonna die! He can't have me cause I'm not ready to die! I'm gonna live!" He reached up and touched my arm when he said that, bless him. Well, just so happens that it is not our Heavenly Father's will that we get sick and die, and my brother's belief happened to coincide with God's will. And his cancer never came back, ever, thank the Lord. And when I learned that in PFAL, that "God is light and in Him is no darkness at all", and that He wills that we "prosper and be in health", so many pieces fit together for me, it was like sunesis city man! Yeah! Yeah, I am really thankful for that part of PFAL...
And so, according to the actual purpose of this thread, that is something that I liked in the class and still believe, and, I LIKE IT, LOVE IT, YES I DO!!
No one argued that it was ethical that does not make it rape nor does it make it impossible to resist it's easy to hold someone else accountable for your actions but we all have free will.
If you don't understand it now, I doubt you ever will. So, whatever.
I think that one of the other wonderful things that I learned in PFAL is that it is NEVER God's will for us as His children to be sick or to be killed.
Well....I think that some of the wonderful things that I learned from the SCRIPTURES is that the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: and they they which SO SUCH THINGS shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
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Mark Clarke
I still believe those few things, with one qualification. We were taught we didn't go to heaven "right away" as you put it. But they were rather vague about what happens in the end. I believe we do
Catcup
Since leaving TWI, I have kind of devolved back almost to where my beliefs were just before getting into TWI. Although in my family we were raised Southern Baptist, we never believed Jesus was God.
GrouchoMarxJr
Unlike oldies, I believe that the majority of what was taught in pfal was wrong... However, as a Christian, I do believe in "eventual" eternal life and I believe that Jesus was the son of God and not
skyrider
Telling isn't it...????
After wierwille had built his yes-men enclave (a subset of corps leadership)...and had a motorcoach to conceal his lusts/predation....and cunningly crafted his stage persona....HIS UNBRIDLED, SELF-GRATIFICATION CAME TO THE FOREFRONT.
You vpw-defenders can hold onto your idol-like adulation for wierwille all you want, but you are only deceiving yourselves. Personally, I don't give a d@mn.
I spent 24 years defending twi and the man who taught me pfal......yet, before a court of law I can honestly say that I suppressed DOZENS OF INCIDENTS that were very questionable behavior, and outlandish reproof sessions that made me secretly think that wierwille was periodically possessed by devil spirits. I've shared THREE such incidents on GS before....so I'll refrain from them.
And, yes.....I've been on the receiving end of wierwille's contempt and thrashing reproof. It wasn't pretty...and I can't imagine what it must have been like for those girls who wierwille raped...!!!!!
Imagine....22 years of silence, a wonderful family broken by wierwille and his silencers, verbally attacking catcup (a corps student requesting answers)......TALK ABOUT SHATTERING THE SILENCE OF A CULT'S PREDATION AMONG US...!!!
Catcup.....thanks for your contributions to GS. I appreciate it and have always been impressed by strength and warmth to encourage others.
Thanks again.
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Catcup
Here we go:
First dot: Solomon repented, and wrote so eloquently about his repentance God saw fit to memorialize it for all time.
Second dot: Victor Paul Wierwille NEVER DID. All he could do is admit he didn't have the courage to do what he knew was right.
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pond
if i had not gotten involved with twi what happened to me and my family would not have happened.
and my story is so horrid i will not share it on the internet because of the manner and style it is what it is.
it in fact took me twenty years to even tell a complete stranger what happened to us and she was indeed a nut case who had just told me she was a true nut acse and wanted me to love her. so she was the first time i ever told somone outside those who think they knew .
odd how that happened but anyhow.
many thought they had the whole spin ya know and would procede to tell me how it happened and what happened and they were not even remotely close to the truth but they were convinced they knew the truth better than me the one it acutaly happened to.
i see this on grease spot today.
so i do not share here.
but i do not blame twi.
nor do i blame the person who victimized us.
i do not think it would have helped me , yes i did have years of rage but i did what i needed to do to take care of the problem and i have no regrets.
and that is why i think of people who say they couldnt hear their sisters pain over the roar of the mininstry, people who stayed being hurt and knowing it was wrong for them.
i do not get that either. i did take personal accoutability and did all i could to repair AFTER the damage was done . and i think i blamed myself for many years in stead of anyone or group.
but not today if i went back and said i never should have gotten involved it never would have happened, well anyone beyond middle age knows that is just a foolish game that makes for a very bitter filled life.
it did happenen and it happened in a ministry that said they stood with God.
it drew me closer to who Jesus a mighty Christ is and it has been a very very long distance and road. im not always happy but i have found some degree of peace in life and i often look around and feel thankful .
see i do not know what life would have been like without this fact we got hurt badly. but i see plenty of testimony of hate here and see zero peace in that .
IN the news today a family had their three year old son eaten by their new dog. omg
i bet they have regrets too, do we all? i think so... the blame game doesnt work for me, i think in a sense for me to forgive my own self for the trouble i got into i had to forgive them if you can understand that you understand me.
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Catcup
You're welcome Sky.
As you know, it was not fun to have to stand before the wrath of Victor Paul Wierwille.
But I am glad that I will be standing in my own shoes when I stand before God, and not his.
It is never easy to drag this all up again. But the way the worm turned here proved the point.
The attitude of the predator was propagated in his own image in those who defend his actions and deny what these women went through.
My undying admiration is reserved for those brave souls who not only survived, but find the strength every morning to get up and live and breathe anyway, in spite of what happened.
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WhiteDove
Tom you apparently have not read my posts I did not defend any ministry, can you cite a quote here where I have. I only requested that stories and opinions not be treated as facts or truth until they have been verified which by the way does not mean that's my opinion so it's verified.
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waysider
"Am I missing something?"!!!!
Duh!!!---- I think you are.
VP screwed her( sorry for the graphic description.). Drugs, no drugs. Consent, no consent. Those are moot points used to justify the wrong he did as a married man and as a representative of God who was supposed to live a life that was beyond reproach.
Oh, well, he made a mistake.--------
You're damn right he made a mistake, he led thousands of unsuspecting people to believe he had some special connection to God Almighty.IMO, I don't believe he had any more connection than any of us, maybe even LESS.).
VPW= King Solomon---------- Now that's a really good punch line. Too bad there really is no joke that could properly precede it.
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pond
White dove
it wont happen such was and is the mentality of people, in the cult.
I wish i could explain to you what it is like to be marked and avoided shunned by the very people who you for the most part lived with and about daily for years.
years later or even months I walking down the street being TOLD what happened to me and my life!!!!
hello it is me IM the one your using as a subject here!!! hello helllo not even a chance they would listen!!
people in a cult convince themself of ridciulas excuses and answer for doing and living and being for so long they really do lose the ability to hear the truth of a situation if it doesnt fit with how they justify their own head and thought and actions in life. .
this happened to me white dove and at first I was shocked and it showed me just how stuck peoplel can get processing the stuff we did.
twi was not a butch of truth seekers hell no it was truly a mind set of fear and who is who and all in the name of speaking for God.
scary stuff.
since i have left my biggest struggle in life is truly trusting people , i think many of us struggle with that fact.
and it isnt just because others lied to us it is because we lied to our own self , it shatters the ability to look at a situation without a serious spin no matter how insane it really is.
it takes alot to get over and many here are still working on that part of life.
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WhiteDove
No one is ignoring your link it's another opinion which one can subscribe to or not. You do because it fits your purpose it's not the all in all answer who made her the only authority? That would be a fine theory if no one ever walked away and said no enough is enough but many did. Apparently they were not all turned into robotic zombies that must obey by the all mighty power and authority, or perhaps they just exercised some common sense or maybe Gee....... here is a thought some biblical sense. Now what ever will we do with those who don't fit in her pat theory?
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pond
Well i did just that i was marked and avoided for speaking up .
sounds like a good thing now. almost thirty years later.
but let me say whether you chose to believe it or not it also destroyed many many years of MY life.
i for years thought God was angry at me i was a lesser not funny for a cult girl .
sooooooooo white dove i did do "the right thing" in your eyes and i also suffered alot for it. so did my family.
that is why i can not judge those who did put up with abuse, i do not get it but i cant judge it.
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doojable
Thanks Catcup - I had those dots already... ;)
I wanted to see what dots Oldies could pull out of his syllabi...
AND...
I also want to say...
It's very easy to sit at your computer here 20 or 30 years later and say,"That girl should have..." or "Why didn't she..." or "Too bad she didn't have the guts to..."
Twenty or thirty years of hindsight and growth, twenty or thirty years of maturity and living and perspective make lots of things crystal clear.
How many of you fifty-something men out there would even think about doing half of what vpw has been accused of? I'd venture to say (hopefully!) NONE!
You can sit there and pontificate all you want - it doesn't change a darn thing for those women. And yes, those gals DO have to live with the "Why didn't I just..." "I should have..." "If only I had the guts to..." Some of those women arent' alive at all.
So what? BFD? Does that make it all okay? What good does it do to cover over the deed with "Well that guy did it too..."(whilst pointing to the table where your Bible is.)
Here's an assignment for you, take the stories you love to pick apart and put the names of your wives, mothers, sisters and daughters in place of the authors. Then come back here and tell me how vpw wasn't any different from your favorite example of a Bible hero that was a fallen man. (Here's a clue - EVERYONE'S a fallen person - it's just that some don't try to pretend they're God Almighty to cover for their sins.)
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Ham
Maybe you could explain what the "pat theory" is here..
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pond
I was marked and avoided.
I think Jesus Christ marked me I really do.
for me it was the utter grace of God i got out.
i even went back about 6 years later!!!!
it was not the same lol
right dooj hind sight is easier.
we were tricked by a very serious thing white dove. for me to sit here tit for tat and say well at least i didnt do THAT!!!
doesnt help anyone. it hurts in fact.
bad mouse
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Catcup
It's not a "pat theory" Dove, it is accepted among medical institutions, institutions of higher learning, and yes, even churches.
The standard of professional behavior among the relationships previously mentioned is based upon the knowledge of this kind of problem which can occur.
Yes, you are ignoring that.
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WhiteDove
Well i did just that i was marked and avoided for speaking up .
sounds like a good thing now. almost thirty years later.
but let me say whether you chose to believe it or not it also destroyed many many years of MY life.
i for years thought God was angry at me i was a lesser not funny for a cult girl .
sooooooooo white dove i did do "the right thing" in your eyes and i also suffered alot for it. so did my family.
that is why i can not judge those who did put up with abuse, i do not get it but i cant judge it.
Truth is always a good thing and no one ever said the path was an easy one, but in the end we all stand accountable for our actions was it talk or walk? Those who follow the path can and face the person in the mirrorand be at peace knowing they did the right thing.
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pond
when we understand something we can explain it.
some of the stuff people go through in life is not understood.
so who can explain it?
except the mouse he shows a good lesson in life ask and you shall recieve , the thing is if you ask in judgement or think they must be lying because you do not understand it can not be explained to you. ya know?
hence the grease spot forums
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WhiteDove
No one argued that it was ethical that does not make it rape nor does it make it impossible to resist it's easy to hold someone else accountable for your actions but we all have free will.
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pond
sure when it all goes good.
i for one I guess have made mistakes in life. Im glad life went so smooth for you that you never had to say OH CRAP I WAS wrong on that one! Just what do you need the grace of God for then?
it didnt go as planned and believe it or not at times I have been at the very mercy of what OTHERS have done to me.
guess what? people i love got hurt badly innocent people who didnt deserve my own ignorance or stupid choices GOT HURT and I think it should hurt every single darn time I look in the mirror so much it will not happen again!!!!
it hurts enough for me to get on my knees and pray every single day prauy for forgivness and for strength and for wisdom .
still.
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J0nny Ling0
I think that one of the other wonderful things that I learned in PFAL is that it is NEVER God's will for us as His children to be sick or to be killed. I can't count the times when my own dear sweet Mother would say things like; I guess we just have to accept God's will on this thing, like when someone was deathly ill or something. In fact, when my big brother Miles was called up as #31 (March 17th-St Paddy's Day) for the draft during that "draft lottery" (was that 1970?), when he went for his physical, dutifully ready to serve his country in Viet Nam, the doctors discovered that he had cancer. And so, they operated and pulled a fist sized tumor out from behind his left shoulder blade. And the prognosis was that regardless of the fact that they had "cut the cancer out" (I don't think he did chemo or radiation therapy), that he had at most, eight months to live. And I remember my Mom telling me that it was God's will and that for some reason He was "calling Miles home to heaven", and that we just had to accept it.
Miles was nineteen, and I was twelve, and I remember standing at his bedside in post op telling him that I was sorry that he was going to die (real tactful little brother!), and Miles just said; "Naa, I'm not gonna die Kev". And I told him that Mom said that it was God's will, and Miles said; "Yeah? She said that? "Well, he went on; "I don't care if it's God's will or not! I'm not gonna die! He can't have me cause I'm not ready to die! I'm gonna live!" He reached up and touched my arm when he said that, bless him. Well, just so happens that it is not our Heavenly Father's will that we get sick and die, and my brother's belief happened to coincide with God's will. And his cancer never came back, ever, thank the Lord. And when I learned that in PFAL, that "God is light and in Him is no darkness at all", and that He wills that we "prosper and be in health", so many pieces fit together for me, it was like sunesis city man! Yeah! Yeah, I am really thankful for that part of PFAL...
And so, according to the actual purpose of this thread, that is something that I liked in the class and still believe, and, I LIKE IT, LOVE IT, YES I DO!!
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pond
great story johnny
so what would you say if you got called to do a funeral for the other kid that died from cancer not that story i bet .
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Oakspear
...but people still die
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Catcup
If you don't understand it now, I doubt you ever will. So, whatever.
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J0nny Ling0
I'd do the funeral.
Edited by Jonny LingoLink to comment
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pond
I think white dove believes these girls could have said NO and i also believe they could have said NO.
but i do not get what his point is either. is it to blame the girls who had sex because they had sex as well as the man ?
so it is BOTH of them that is wrong. ok.
does that make it right or something?
that does discount the drugs and alcohol and the mog and the power play , the man kind of had an advantage there .
no both were wrong. but both were not victims.
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skyrider
Well....I think that some of the wonderful things that I learned from the SCRIPTURES is that the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: and they they which SO SUCH THINGS shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
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