Have you been on the "wrong end" of a supposed exorcism?

[Ham]

I think I've got all of the possibilities covered..

Edited March 14, 2008 by Ham

[Ham]

Only three votes?

maybe this is just too crazy..

[mstar1]

i find it surprising. In my experience -- especially just post way in a few offshoots, near everyone I ran into wanted to cast out some spirit or another.

Some of them were really wierd--the spirit of coughing, another time the spirit of nicotine. It seemed (especially postway)like they were always coming up with a new one to cast out of me...

They tried a bunch of times for a bunch of different things--nothing changed.

I still smoke, I still occasionally cough and i still do alot of other things that are also a matter of my choice and not some unseen dark force

It took me awhile to unravel way doctrine and realize that it was all a whole hatful of lunacy(duh) and they needed to go sell crazy someplace else

[Ham]

I think if a *real* spirit sat up and said "boo".. they'd end up in the emergency room somewhere.

[cheranne]

sounds alot like working retail at christmas time(you know there is a hell,because you work retail)

[brideofjc]

I think if a *real* spirit sat up and said "boo".. they'd end up in the emergency room somewhere.

Unfortunately, they are too real! But you're right, most Christians even, would totally freak if they

ever saw some of the daimonion that the Holy Spirit has allowed me to see.

[Nottawayfer]

It took me awhile to unravel way doctrine and realize that it was all a whole hatful of lunacy(duh) and they needed to go sell crazy someplace else

That might be a great line to tell somone the next time they knock on my door to offer their god.

Panama City Sailor wanna hump hump bar......

Panama City Sailor wanna hump hump bar......

[nyunknown]

I have never been through an exorcism. Would leaving the TWI count as being free of evil sprits

[Ron G.]

I saw the movie.

The sequels sucked, tho.

[So_Cal1]

I am not a Roman Catholic.

[excathedra]

Unfortunately, they are too real! But you're right, most Christians even, would totally freak if they

ever saw some of the daimonion that the Holy Spirit has allowed me to see.

do tell bride !!!!!!

[shiftthis]

when i was in school we always had that class called physical ed. they made use put them gym clothes on and do all them exorcism's !!!

[Yanagisawa]

When I was a WOW I got my first crappy job in a Lebanese restaurant. One Friday afternoon the owner told me in her broken English that business was slow and that she'd pay me Monday.

I told her I was on a mission from God, had a big meeting that weekend and that I needed to be payed immediately:

"I say I pay Monday!"

"I need to be paid now!"

"I say I pay Monday!"

At that time I believed that any inconvenience, slight, put-down or ignoring of ME (God's faithful ambassador) was the direct attack of five star general demons on the "movement of the Word."

I lowered my eyes, stared at her cold, unbelieving, face and said, "In the name of Jesus Christ pay me."

She stepped up to my toes, looked deeply into the face of a Son of God with all power and whispered, "Jesus Christ you - you sunna beetch I said I pay you Monday!"

She paid me Monday, then fired me before I could clock in.

[waterbuffalo]

When I was a WOW I got my first crappy job in a Lebanese restaurant. One Friday afternoon the owner told me in her broken English that business was slow and that she'd pay me Monday.

I told her I was on a mission from God, had a big meeting that weekend and that I needed to be payed immediately:

"I say I pay Monday!"

"I need to be paid now!"

"I say I pay Monday!"

At that time I believed that any inconvenience, slight, put-down or ignoring of ME (God's faithful ambassador) was the direct attack of five star general demons on the "movement of the Word."

I lowered my eyes, stared at her cold, unbelieving, face and said, "In the name of Jesus Christ pay me."

She stepped up to my toes, looked deeply into the face of a Son of God with all power and whispered, "Jesus Christ you - you sunna beetch I said I pay you Monday!"

She paid me Monday, then fired me before I could clock in.

[now I see]

Wish I could vote twice!

[brideofjc]

Wish I could vote twice!

DID YOU SEE ONE?

[jen-o]

well...

i've seen a couple of them...

one of them took the form of my dead grandfather on the night of his funeral...

btw, i do not believe that christians can become possessed by evil spirits...

oppressed? yes

possessed? NO

Edited May 18, 2008 by jen-o

[brideofjc]

well...

i've seen a couple of them...

one of them took the form of my dead grandfather on the night of his funeral...

btw, i do not believe that christians can become possessed by evil spirits...

oppressed? yes

possessed? NO

That's because you're thinking twi dogma and their failure to separate body, soul and spirit, but relegated spirit to mean the HS that you received at new birth. I've had to cast them out of myself when the Lord had me on a cleansing program, so I cannot deny it and won't, especially when the HS is the one that told me to cast it forth. Possessed would indicate the demonic habitation of the person's spirit, while oppressed would indicate the demonic habitation of the soul. Either way, they need to be cast out after repentance in the blood of Jesus has been made available.

I do not know about your Grandfather....I didn't know him, obviously. But when my Mother died, I was worshipping the Lord as I was laying in my bed and all of a sudden, I felt a decided and definite "hug" and heard the words, "I love you." I thought it was the Lord Jesus and so just said back, "I love you, too." Then I started to fall asleep and then the phone rang and it was my sister saying, 'Mom's gone." She had checked on her about an hour or two before and she was fine, breathing etc. I then thought about the time line and it was about a little more than an hour ago when I had thought it was the Lord Jesus speaking to me and hugging me, but now I know, it was my Mother saying goodbye to me.

I no longer have such constrained thoughts about death and what happens to the dead after they die. Not like I did when indoctrinated with twi dogma. In all reality it is only their bodies that have died, not their spirits or their souls.

Edited May 18, 2008 by brideofjc

[jen-o]

That's because you're thinking twi dogma and their failure to separate body, soul and spirit, but relegated spirit to mean the HS that you received at new birth. I've had to cast them out of myself when the Lord had me on a cleansing program, so I cannot deny it and won't, especially when the HS is the one that told me to cast it forth. Possessed would indicate the demonic habitation of the person's spirit, while oppressed would indicate the demonic habitation of the soul. Either way, they need to be cast out after repentance in the blood of Jesus has been made available.

no, on the contrary... if i was thinking twi dogma, i would believe that christians could get possessed...

in all my time in twi, i never heard of anyone indicating that christians could not get possessed...

in fact, i did see wafers quite frequently assuming that believers were possessed...

and that is what i believed when i was IN twi...

so i'm not sure why you've come to this conclusion...

or why you assume that i hold on to any twi dogma...

as for seeing relatives after they have died, i believe this falls under the category of familar spirits...

(you may disagree, which you are entitled to)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Possessed would indicate the demonic habitation of the person's spirit, while oppressed would indicate the demonic habitation of the soul.

oh, btw, i totally disagree with your definition of possession and oppression...

In all reality it is only their bodies that have died, not their spirits or their souls.

however, this i DO agree with... Edited May 18, 2008 by jen-o

[Ham]

In all reality it is only their bodies that have died, not their spirits or their souls.

however, this i DO agree with...

interesting turn of discussion here..

so what happens to the soul?

I have a few thoughts..

How long do you think we have been "around".. I for one don't think we (or should I say *I*) are devil spirits that "incarnate" themselves in one generation after another.. loy's or "doc's" explanation of reincarnation is rather immature, in my opinion.

I think the warnings of religion and hypocrisy only are used to wilfully mask our true nature.

what else does one do, if one lives forever.. we pretend.. we play the games..

I think we play these cruel games, one lifetime after another.

take it as you wish..

[brideofjc]

no, on the contrary... if i was thinking twi dogma, i would believe that christians could get possessed...

As I remember (correct me if I'm wrong, its been 25 years or better, if anyone still has the syllabus), in "DWTA" class, the exact opposite would be true, Jeno. vp very much relegated "possession" basically to unbelievers, for he very clearly stated that the HS would not dwell with them. Why? because he didn't differentiate between man's spirit and the HS. I know they said a three part being, but if you really read what was written by twi, their ideas were only for body and soul and when a person got born again, THEN they received spirit, i.e. HS. vp totally overlooked man's spirit, and if he did recognize it, then he really downplayed it. He might have given it lip service, but that is all. This is why he would swagger around and say, "I'm born again, and ALL HELL can't stop me from going to heaven." This belief might have crept into twi dogma, but I don't believe originally it was there unless they were contradicting themselves openly.

in all my time in twi, i never heard of anyone indicating that christians could not get possessed...

They just used the wrong terminology IMO, or they believed that the person in question really wasn't a Christian. They should have been saying oppression rather than possession. Possession happens in the spirit of man, while oppression happens in the soul of man. And yes, you can have the HS "in rez" and be oppressed by demonic entities.

in fact, i did see wafers quite frequently assuming that believers were possessed...

and that is what i believed when i was IN twi...

so i'm not sure why you've come to this conclusion...

or why you assume that i hold on to any twi dogma...

Again, incorrect terminology applied because of failure to differentiate between the THREE aspects of the person. The HS doesn't have to dwell with any demonic forces, because even if a person was "possessed" (which would be in man's spirit), if the person were witnessed to, to the end that they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, when the HS came to dwell, I can guarantee that the demonic forces would be more than happy to move their HQ down to the SOUL of the person. I can almost hear them saying, "Eek! It's the HS, let's get out of Dodge!" The HS doesn't fear them, they fear the HS!

as for seeing relatives after they have died, i believe this falls under the category of familar spirits...

(you may disagree, which you are entitled to)

No, I do agree that SOMETIMES that indeed might be the case. Like I said, I never knew your grandfather or his status with the Lord Jesus Christ. Plus, I wasn't there to see what you saw. I'm just saying there's a lot more to the spirit realm that we haven't even fathomed as of yet. This is why the Scriptures admonish us to "test the spirits," which would then indicate that it could be either way, that is if we need to "test" something. It presupposes two sets to differentiate between.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

oh, btw, i totally disagree with your definition of possession and oppression...

That's because you still retain twi terminology to some extent. How much? I do not know.

however, this i DO agree with...

[brideofjc]

interesting turn of discussion here..

so what happens to the soul?

I have a few thoughts..

I believe the "soul" is what will be judged at the bema. I believe that when a person is born again of the HS, their 'man's spirit' is saved and I do not believe that you can lose that salvation. However, I do believe that you can 'lose' your soul. The Lord Jesus made this distinction in the Gospels. He didn't say 'spirit', he said 'soul'.

How long do you think we have been "around".. I for one don't think we (or should I say *I*) are devil spirits that "incarnate" themselves in one generation after another.. loy's or "doc's" explanation of reincarnation is rather immature, in my opinion.

You lost me on that one. Why would you think that "you are devil spirits that incarnate themselves...?"

I do believe that demons love family lines and this is due to the passing down of iniquities to the 3rd and 4th generations.

I think the warnings of religion and hypocrisy only are used to wilfully mask our true nature.

Yes, without the Lord Jesus Christ, we are 'lost' and walk in the flesh to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. And yes, if one doesn't submit to the tutelage of the HS, one can still fulfill the lusts of the flesh after being born again, because this occurs in the 'soul' realm and not in the 'spirit' realm.

what else does one do, if one lives forever.. we pretend.. we play the games..

I think we play these cruel games, one lifetime after another.

The spirit after separation from the body, i.e. death, goes back to the Creator....and HE doesn't pretend or play any games. We have one chance to decide who we will worship and serve.

take it as you wish..

[jen-o]

Possession happens in the spirit of man, while oppression happens in the soul of man

bride, where are you getting this idea from?

And yes, you can have the HS "in rez" and be oppressed by demonic entities.

i never said that you couldn't... if you read what i wrote, i said that christians could be "oppressed" but not "possessed"...

in fact, i'm not sure you read what i wrote at all...

you write:

The HS doesn't have to dwell with any demonic forces, because even if a person was "possessed" (which would be in man's spirit), if the person were witnessed to, to the end that they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, when the HS came to dwell, I can guarantee that the demonic forces would be more than happy to move

and how exactly does this disagree with what i said... which is, that a christian cannot be "possessed"... you yourself admit that the demon would move once a person becomes a christian...

so are you saying a christian CAN be possessed or CAN'T be possessed??

As I remember (correct me if I'm wrong, its been 25 years or better, if anyone still has the syllabus), in "DWTA" class, the exact opposite would be true, Jeno. vp very much relegated "possession" basically to unbelievers

well... i can't correct you, i don't remember the specifics of this class, and i don't have the syllabus... all i know is that all the wafers that i was around used the term "possessed" for both believers and non-believers... so whatever vpw's thinking was, in practice, the term "possessed" was applied to BOTH christians and non-christians indiscriminately... and i was led to believe while IN twi that christians could become "possessed"...

That's because you still retain twi terminology to some extent.

this is quite an assumption, bride... because i don't agree with you, you want to label my thinking as way-like... you don't know me very well!... and i don't think that is a very honest way to have a discussion by labeling the other person's thoughts as ingrained with "twi terminology" (especially when i've told you otherwise)... if you want to disagree, then disagree on the merits of what i say and NOT by trying to discredit me with a presumptuous label...

peace,

jen-o

Edited May 18, 2008 by jen-o

[brideofjc]

QUOTE

Possession happens in the spirit of man, while oppression happens in the soul of man

bride, where are you getting this idea from?

Pretty much from those that function as deliverance ministers. I follow a tripartite tradition regarding mankind. Here this is really tricky; pretty much I would categorically state that the soul of mankind can most definitely be oppressed. Maybe we should clarify some terminology here, Jeno, 'cause I wonder if we are not operating with different meanings. When I say oppressed, this can include "habitation" by demonic entities but they reside in the soul of mankind and not in the spirit. I believe that the demonic entity does (I hate to use this word) "control" the person, only so because of the very strong mental hold that the entity has on the person and not because they are possessed. The Charismatic end of the church has been very nebulous on the definition of possession Why? Maybe because they do not want to set something in stone, so to speak. Here is what I believe that possession entails: the demonic entity can and does control the body or the host and also controls the mind of the host AT WILL and whenever he/she wants to control the host. The demonic entity many not manifest at all times and may not even be there 100% of the time. I believe that a lot of them do, they are just not manifesting at the moment or may not need to manifest unless a very strong Christian personality comes into the life of the host and begins to give the person the Lord Jesus. Definite guarantee to get the entity to manifest into the physical realm.

QUOTE

And yes, you can have the HS "in rez" and be oppressed by demonic entities.

i never said that you couldn't... if you read what i wrote, i said that christians could be "oppressed" but not "possessed"...

I hope they truly cannot be possessed in the way that I just mentioned above. But I lean more towards oppression with a Christian than I do with possession. I realize we have the HS and the Jews before Jesus did not. However, they were covenant people and they were covered with the blood that was available for them at that moment. So sometimes I wonder about it, because Jesus had to deliver the man in the caves and the little boy who was being thrown into the fire and water. Questions that I still have on that subject and may never be satisfactorily answered until the Lord Jesus comes back.

in fact, i'm not sure you read what i wrote at all...

Yes, I did read what you wrote.

you write:

QUOTE

The HS doesn't have to dwell with any demonic forces, because even if a person was "possessed" (which would be in man's spirit), if the person were witnessed to, to the end that they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, when the HS came to dwell, I can guarantee that the demonic forces would be more than happy to move

and how exactly does this disagree with what i said... which is, that a christian cannot be "possessed"... you yourself admit that the demon would move once a person becomes a christian...

so are you saying a christian CAN be possessed or CAN'T be possessed??

I technically hold to the idea that they cannot absolutely be possessed, but only oppressed. However, I have my moments when I question myself, see further above. If asked publicly, I will hold to that they cannot, but this doesn't negate my private questions.

QUOTE

As I remember (correct me if I'm wrong, its been 25 years or better, if anyone still has the syllabus), in "DWTA" class, the exact opposite would be true, Jeno. vp very much relegated "possession" basically to unbelievers

well... i can't correct you, i don't remember the specifics of this class, and i don't have the syllabus... all i know is that all the wafers that i was around used the term "possessed" for both believers and non-believers... so whatever vpw's thinking was, in practice, the term "possessed" was applied to BOTH christians and non-christians indiscriminately... and i was led to believe while IN twi that christians could become "possessed"...

In my area, I guess I had it better. There were some that spoke of demons manifesting etc, but if they did believe these things, (maybe they thought we were babies and couldn't handle the intel.,) they rarely discussed them openly.

QUOTE

That's because you still retain twi terminology to some extent.

this is quite an assumption, bride... because i don't agree with you, you want to label my thinking as way-like... you don't know me very well!... and i don't think that is a very honest way to have a discussion by labeling the other person's thoughts as ingrained with "twi terminology" (especially when i've told you otherwise)... if you want to disagree, then disagree on the merits of what i say and NOT by trying to discredit me with a presumptuous label...

My apologies if you do not....but that's what it sounded like quite frankly. But it is difficult to tell where a person is at spiritually, so to speak, or how much training they had in twi or outside of twi or even what they are currently doing. So sometimes when words come out of peoples fingers, sometimes it sounds too wayish and you have to wonder if you're talking to an innie or an outie. Sometimes, it is difficult to keep up with everyone's spiritual journeys since leaving twi.

[jen-o]

I technically hold to the idea that they cannot absolutely be possessed, but only oppressed.

gee, bride, this is exactly what i said in my first post on this thread...

(which i thought you were objecting to... but now i see we both agree... :D )

My apologies if you do not

apology accepted... :)

peace,

jen-o