Way Corps Vet

[Ham]

The whole concept seems sooooo bizarre to me.

So you go to "way university".. and you can't really "graduate". Besides, the piece of paper one walked out with entitled one to a grand total of nothing. To maintain "nothing", one must constantly have to jump through hoops, continually go back for classes, seminars, corpses nights, etc., etc... and for what?

The "real world" equivalent of it would be if upon supposedly graduating, I'd STILL have to go back for three seminars a year to maintain my bachellor's.

way university was the first I ever heard of forcing a "professor" to clean up oil spots in the parking lot as part of his duties.. even going as far as calling him to ream him a new one because he "spiritually" missed a few that morning.

I think for all of this to look "normal".. you need the right kind of glasses..

[JeffSjo]

Looking back for me, I remember thinking of the Corps in the best possible terms. When I took PFAL in 1982 I thought of the Corps in the terms that it was promoted in. Well equipped ambassadors going where they needed to go in service to God, or something to that effect. I like to think that Corps vets would be the best equipped to handle tough issues, even the ones that come up on this site. But when the reality of where some of Corps vets may be living sink in it's easy to give up on the ideas that were promoted about the Corps in the face of overwhelming reality. Some have said they were trained to be proffessional idolaters even.

Even as a young believer it was apparent that some individuals allowed the Way Corps training to "puff them up" to use the biblical term. Now it's apparent that the problems ran far deeper and more disgusting than simply being puffed up.

I like the idea of a Way Corps.

The "corps" that was made up of some of the younger folks in my small splinter group I fear won't end up well. That teacher epitomises many of the faults that some of you speak of here. Biblical compromise, self serving leadership, biblically justified servitude, etc. etc.

It breaks my heart to think of how far the reality of many aspects of TWI were BELOW the ideal standards that I can't help but still hold to as good things.

P.S. Oldies, sometimes when Rascal talks about family she jusy means spiritual family.

(added in editing) Personally I like it that she takes it personally when refering to spiritual family, especially when they've been hurt.

How far out of step on the "not getting personal" requirement I am!

Edited March 19, 2008 by JeffSjo

[oldiesman]

Jeff, please activate your PM. I tried but can't get through.

[JeffSjo]

I don't have PM capability at this public internet access that I know of Oldies. If I do, I don't have a clue how to activate it. That works for me though, pretty much everything about me is already public domain here on this site Oldies.

[oldiesman]

Jeff, Rascal wasn't referring to my spiritual family and I wanted to fill you in on what this was about. But if you don't have PM or want it, that's your option.

Getting back to the topic, I'm of the opinion that we folks in twi had free will to choose our destiny. There are some exceptions: mentally retarded, children, and drug victims.

But I think joining the corps was a bit more complicated, because by making that commitment, one voluntarily chose to follow the wishes, orders, spiritual counsel, whatever you call it, of someone else. This continued as long as the volunteer allowed themselves to be under that yoke, in my opinion.

Edited March 19, 2008 by oldiesman

[JeffSjo]

When the blind lead the blind into a ditch, they're both in the ditch.

Personally, I'm more perturbed at the leaders though, especially when they promote themselves as having all the answers.

(added in editing) I don't know everything you refer to about your family oldies, I hope you and Rascal can get it worked out.

Edited March 19, 2008 by JeffSjo

[waysider]

(Comparing physical restraint with psychological and emotional restraint.)Of course, if one were to lack an understanding of how cults are able to retain devotees, despite apparent flaws in the logic of their doctrines, one might also have a difficult time understanding this as well Edited March 19, 2008 by waysider

[JeffSjo]

I've heard it said that a picture is worth a thousand words.

Which thousand are you refering to Waysider?

(added in editing)

Thanks Waysider, it's clear to me now.

That is the reason I don't hold the abused responsible for being abused. The abuser is to be blamed, the abused are to be helped.

It seems to be far short on the compassion department when someone simply blames the one that is like a little child ( biblically a metaphor in 1john) for the abuse of the fathers.

Edited March 19, 2008 by JeffSjo

[brideofjc]

bull-fighting rodeo clown (possibly a family corps enrollee?),

My city had a bull-fighting rodeo clown, but he wasn't married....I do believe he was in our city for his third year practicum. I believe his name was Eric if I remember

rightly, it's been so long ago now.

[waysider]

I've heard it said that a picture is worth a thousand words.

Which thousand are you refering to Waysider?

Hi, Jeff

Nice to see you.

I edited at the same time you were posting.

I hope my edit clarifies my statement.

[JeffSjo]

Thanks Waysider, it sure does.

I added my response to your editing in my editing.

[brideofjc]

The whole concept seems sooooo bizarre to me.

So you go to "way university".. and you can't really "graduate". Besides, the piece of paper one walked out with entitled one to a grand total of nothing. To maintain "nothing", one must constantly have to jump through hoops, continually go back for classes, seminars, corpses nights, etc., etc... and for what?

The "real world" equivalent of it would be if upon supposedly graduating, I'd STILL have to go back for three seminars a year to maintain my bachellor's.

There is a real world equivalent, Ham...Doctors must keep current and continue to take classes to maintain their licensure.

[brideofjc]

I don't have PM capability at this public internet access that I know of Oldies. If I do, I don't have a clue how to activate it. That works for me though, pretty much everything about me is already public domain here on this site Oldies.

The following errors were found

This message can not be sent because the recipient has their personal messenger disabled or they are in a member group not allowed to use the personal messenger.

This personal message has not been sent

Jeff, click on "MY CONTROLS" at the top of the page, when it comes up on the left side of the page down by the bottom, you'll have to scroll down perhaps,

you'll see "BOARD SETTINGS", click on that and when that comes up, in the middle, half way down I guess, you'll see an option for "PERSONAL MESSENGER",

change the settings to "NO" you probably have it checked "yes" which means that the messenger is disabled.

Blessings.

[waysider]

Bride(and others)

Jeff uses the computer at the public library.

I'm not sure you can use the PM function in that situation.

[Twinky]

2) By 1977-78......trustees and corps director promoted the corps program as an advanced training for twig coordinators AND for those who wanted to grow strong spiritually. During this time, wierwille was challenging some in the 7th corps to be the FIRST PERSON TO DONATE ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO TWI. While at a branch meeting, one 7th corps person publically announced that he was going to be *that person.*

How the heck could any Corps grad (especially now) get $1million together at all, never mind $1m to give away?

Clearly not living on a need basis...on staff...

Anyway, that kinda smacks of "buying a ministry". Bet if anyone did donate $1m they didn't get M&A'd too quickly.

[oldiesman]

How warped can it get. a person scrapes up enough cash, invests four years of their time, money, time off from developing real careers, not for freedom, but servitude?

Right Ham,

It's not as warped as you might think, it certainly wasn't warped thinking then. I'm sure you remember that all twi actions were virtually based on twi psychology i.e., "move the Word", Move the word" i.e., it was much bigger than simply developing a career. *Anybody* can simply develop a career, but we were storing up treasures and rewards in all of eternity to be rewarded at the bema which is much bigger than establishing a career in this vapor of life on earth. But hey, if eternal life is a hoax, if rewards are a hoax, if Christianity itself is a hoax, you probably have a decent point ... why go through all that corps nonsense when you could have had a decent career.

[waysider]

Right Ham,

It's not as warped as you might think, it certainly wasn't warped thinking then. I'm sure you remember that all twi actions were virtually based on twi psychology i.e., "move the Word", Move the word" i.e., it was much bigger than simply developing a career. *Anybody* can simply develop a career, but we were storing up treasures and rewards in all of eternity to be rewarded at the bema which is much bigger than establishing a career in this vapor of life on earth. But hey, if eternal life is a hoax, if rewards are a hoax, if Christianity itself is a hoax, you probably have a decent point ... why go through all that corps nonsense when you could have had a decent career.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

Are you saying that a Christian can't have eternal life or rewards at the Bema without a Corps experience on their resume?

The dude was a con-man.

(Though I must admit, he had some mighty byotchin' bikes in that stable of his!)

I helped pay for at least one of them.(An Indian)

[oldiesman]

Of course not, what I said was what I said. I think it makes more sense than the mind control excuse.

[oldiesman]

Do you believe that laying up riches in this world by way of a decent career is more valuable (or has any value at all) in the afterlife, or will lay up rewards at the bema?

What's more valuable, a decent career, or spiritual rewards? I think its possible to have both going at the same time, it would depend on the mindset and commitment of the person making the decision. But at the same time, I believe that thinking that corps volunteers were somehow wasting their time or getting ripped off of having a decent career is off the mark spiritually. God keeps the score.

Edited March 19, 2008 by oldiesman

[oldiesman]

The dude was a con-man.

Whether or not the dude was a con-man is besides the point. One persons life isn't defined by the good or bad works of another persons life. On the negative side, I guess that'd be guilt by association. Its a smear tactic I don't agree with.

Edited March 19, 2008 by oldiesman

[waysider]

So then, God gives extra points for cult participation?

Wouldn't that make Him a respecter of persons?

You see, Oldies, your line of reasoning is not too different from the old question, "Do you still beat your wife?"

The guy was a huckster.

He had some pretty cool classic cars, too.

JP gave me a spin around the block in that red '67 Catalina.

Mighty fine ride.

Me thinks there are some who are still under the spell of the old Veepster.

[skyrider]

Okay, this all fits exactly with my remembered time-frames. I went to a lot of conferences and ROAs my first couple of years in twi and remember there being a huge focus on "earthly achievements" supposedly accomplished or improved-upon by applying twi's principles for living God's Word. And then I was in-rez at Emporia with the 15th and 13th corps, which was when I started hearing the grumblings and the debate about being "called"

And now that I've been thinking about this all morning, I distinctly remember Martindale telling our corps (basically the 16th-20th corps) that VP's original concept for the way corps was a sold-out-lifetime-commitment, which is how the first few corps were run, but that he'd had to water that down because he (the Vicster) spiritually saw that the caliber of folks coming into the corps previously were not going to raise themselves up to the level of gift ministers, (nevermind how many of them DID get ordained and run states and regions for twi) and so he had watered down his original goals temporarily until (god) told him to step it back up again... Craig used this as his justification for the commitment levels getting steeper and steeper all throughout the 1990s. (get out of debt, quit your job, lose the pets, don't have kids, attend all meetings, don't question anything...)

Geez, it all makes sense now... they took advantage of the increasing numbers of potential tuition fees, errrr... way corps, by making the program enticing to the most people. Then, when they saw they couldn't control things that way, they started paring it down and used the increased expectations of commitment to winnow out anyone who wouldn't back them up 100%.

Smooth... very smooth. (disgusting, dispicable, deceitful, and dastardly) But smooth.

Highway.......I thought of a couple more tidbits.

Again, during those "bulging years of growth"........(1977-1982) wierwille/trustees had so many irons in the fire that they couldn't keep up with things.......and the corps program was directed to train twig coordinators AND spiritually strengthen those who had long suits in 'helps & governments.'

1) Way Builders.......during these building years, there was a huge need for the vast talents in the building trades. With five campus locations, the osc building in transition to the new office areas, the corps chalet, camp gunnison projects, etc. etc........need for project managers, contractors, engineers, surveyors, electricians, plumbers, etc. Many of these corps guys SPENT MORE TIME WORKING THEIR TRADE......than sitting in classes in the corps program.

2) Flight Services.....wierwille needed 'spiritually sharp' pilots (and motorcoach drivers). Some of these people simply went into the corps BECAUSE wierwille wanted them to be 'their best' at doing assigned work. Again, this area goes into that 'helps/govt' area.........(kinda like the OT building of the temple --- different trades, craftsmen).

3) The Way Orchestra......several international students came to the U.S. and into the corps.......the talent was absolutely amazing. Lots of wonderful, talented people.

4) The Snow-Way..........two family corps guys, with amazing ability....were designing an all-terrain vehicle and had direct access to wierwille for anything that was needed.

5) Indy Car Racing Sponsor?......some guy was soliciting twi for sponsorship for his race car. Since wierwille was an avid fan of the Indianapolis 500......twi almost jumped on-board.

6) Divine Design...........lots of great artists were also going into the corps to increase their spiritual sharpness.

7) Wierwille ordained Geer in 1982.......and sent him to oversee Europe. Major schisms were just below the surface of twi.......soon, lots of murmurings were afoot. Martindale got the mantle, wierwille rode away on his harley.....and the rest is history.

But yeah.............imo, the corps program evolved into a 'spiritual training / helps & gov'ts' for many years. And, the corps vet t-shirt was a product of that short-lived era.

And then, with martindale wanting to 'strut his stuff' as the new president (around 1983....and so on).......you, highway went in-rez at a time when things were more scrutinized. That's why......it's so challenging to compare notes. Every corps year was SO DIFFERENT.

[waysider]

I think there are probably less people who graduated from the fellow laborers program (for all the years combined) than for one single big year of the corps.Still, it was made very clear to us that the purpose of our 9-5 jobs was to witness and promote PLAF.It didn't matter if you had a degree in accounting or chemistry, if a job in the local factory came open, you were expected to take that job.Why? because it would be more conducive to "Moving The Word". selling PLAF.I really get a chuckle out of people who insist there was never any mind/thought/behavior control.Kinda reminds me of that old song, What's That You Say, I've Got Beans in My Ears(?/.)

Edited March 19, 2008 by waysider

[T-Bone]

I'm not sure I understand your point.

Are you saying that a Christian can't have eternal life or rewards at the Bema without a Corps experience on their resume?

The dude was a con-man.

(Though I must admit, he had some mighty byotchin' bikes in that stable of his!)

I helped pay for at least one of them.(An Indian)

Do you believe that laying up riches in this world by way of a decent career is more valuable (or has any value at all) in the afterlife, or will lay up rewards at the bema?

What's more valuable, a decent career, or spiritual rewards? I think its possible to have both going at the same time, it would depend on the mindset and commitment of the person making the decision. But at the same time, I believe that thinking that corps volunteers were somehow wasting their time or getting ripped off of having a decent career is off the mark spiritually. God keeps the score.

Whether or not the dude was a con-man is besides the point. One persons life isn't defined by the good or bad works of another persons life. On the negative side, I guess that'd be guilt by association. Its a smear tactic I don't agree with.

Because he was a con man is exactly the point! vp had followers convinced that TWI's agenda was God's agenda… "Good works" as defined by vp: get people signed up for PFAL, abundantly share [give over and above 10 percent of your finances] to TWI…and most importantly, put TWI ahead of your own family, career and personal life!

Part of vp's con was getting followers to perpetuate his con.

Edited March 19, 2008 by T-Bone

[Ham]

Right Ham,

It's not as warped as you might think, it certainly wasn't warped thinking then. I'm sure you remember that all twi actions were virtually based on twi psychology i.e., "move the Word", Move the word" i.e., it was much bigger than simply developing a career. *Anybody* can simply develop a career, but we were storing up treasures and rewards in all of eternity to be rewarded at the bema which is much bigger than establishing a career in this vapor of life on earth. But hey, if eternal life is a hoax, if rewards are a hoax, if Christianity itself is a hoax, you probably have a decent point ... why go through all that corps nonsense when you could have had a decent career.

I dunno. I think it was still as warped thinking, just perhaps we didn't know better. It's called.. young and dumb.

Were we storing up treasures for all eternity? Now I doubt it.. somehow I don't think "eternity" will start with an interview with the lord.." lord, lord, I sat through seventy pfal classes, assisted in twenty, ran the tapes in forty, served the refreshments.."

I run into the same thing today. "Whadya need a degree for, when you can have the WORD?"

"What makes that SO IMPORTANT?"

my answer: "tough *%".. go get your own life.."

I heard a local "preacher" say something like.. "don't you dare think a SECULAR calling is any less of the lord.."

I think we were conned into a pyramid scheme, where those in top couldn't sell a free meal to a hobo..

they just needed to find enough stooges to do all the work..