Having spent 2-3 years in a pretty much self-governing branch, I was stunned to watch the interactions between senior and junior way corps. VPW said one time that "we don't use people, we love people and we use things". What a lie. VF came out to coordinate a visit from VPW. He not only used the local believers and WC, he borderline abused them.
Good point Jim...many non corps folks in twi were having a ball fellowshipping in twigs and getting together...until the corps arrived. The Youth for Hitler program was set in motion and it was quite a site to behold. Watching these stormtroopers for Christ administer their "tough love" destroyed the genuine friendships and heartfelt sharings and replaced them with ultimatums, accusations and harshness.
Fear motivation became the order of the day and obligation took the place of desire...As I said in a different thread...the waycorps were the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz...
Only my last set of Corps (Branch Coordinators) were of the "this is how you need to live your life" variety, and they weren't particularly good at it, especially the husband. If his life hadn't been micro-managed from above, I think he would have been an all right guy.
How many of you had to put up with a self serving, egotistical, minimog during your twi daze?
My first major encounter with a SSEMM (Self-Serving Egotistical Mini-MOG) was during my interim year.
He was apprentice Corps - but was well trained in the ways of bullying.
I remember the men in his family complaining because their fearless leader wouldn't let them walk around the house in their underwear - while he did so. See, he was married and didn't want his wife to see other men in their skivvies - but he was fair game. So, in a family of 4, his wife and the two men had to watch as he paraded around in his tighty-whities.
I still recall the lecture (near face-melting) he gave me in which he kept telling me that I needed to do something the way he pacifically requested.
The second encounter was almost comical.
I was in residence, in the kitchen for the day. The man leading the kitchen asked me to sharpen some knives and instructed me on the proper way to do it. (His was the right way BTW - though I didn't know it then.)
Along came a second guy - more like a branch leader - and he yelled a bit, rolled his eyes and mocked me as he showed me how he wanted me to sharpen that knife. It was the complete opposite of what the first guy had said.
Along comes the first guy, who gently re-instructed me. (I don't even remember if I mentioned why I had changed techniques.)
Once again the second mini-mog came along and became quite irate that I wasn't being meek and doing what he instructed, in the precise way he instructed me to do so.
At which point I looked up to see the guy running the kitchen standing in front of us, listening to everything that had just transpired.
I'll admit, there were some REALLY NEAT people, whom I had the utmost respect for at the time, but that came at a price, experiences with loudmouthed, arrogant mogster types After the good guys were run off, I observed that there wasn't really any real reason left to listen to the abuse..
Once again the second mini-mog came along and became quite irate that I wasn't being meek and doing what he instructed, in the precise way he instructed me to do so.
At which point I looked up to see the guy running the kitchen standing in front of us, listening to everything that had just transpired.
It was a good morning.
So did the kitchen guy stand up to mini mog?
It seems some were schizo' ... they felt privileged and could play the mini mog role, but weren't quite "sold out" or totally delusional, so it was tempered a little. But maybe those types are the ones that left by 1986.
No, he didn't stand up to him. See he understood that sh(t only flows downhill.
Then again, no one ever knew when it was right to stand up to a mini-mog and when to back down. If you always backed down you weren't really a go-getter. If you always took a stand you were a trouble maker.
Now I understand why I breathed a sigh of relief when I walked away.
I could go on for days about both the state coordinator and the local moggy-wanna-be that was in our area. Both were big men and used their size and voice to intimidate. Both were unreasonable, hot-tempered babies who loved to find fault with others to prove how spiritual they were. Both imposed legalism and "spiritual freedom" alternately simply by their whim, and both falsely accused folks of evil works and drove them out of the fellowships, only to be proved wrong some time later. Of course, no apologies were ever made for the damage done.
I got the chance before I left twi to stand toe-to-toe and eyeball-to-eyeball with one of them and not back down, (it's one of my sweetest memories) but I would still LOVE a chance to tell either one of these men what a complete and total arse they were!!
Looking back at it, the justifications for adultery are the hardest things to look at for me. I REMEMBER Dr. sharing that "spiritual adultery" was what the majority of references in the N.T. were refering to. If I only knew what was behind that then. BLECH!!!
(added in editing)
Some of these characteristics I've seen with my own eyes in my own little splinter group. Some I can imagine about TWI based on the posts that I've heard hear.
A supposed MOG in a closed society can become insanely full of themselves.Then it's not hard to convince others to think too highly of them also. This unstable state I've seen leads to a MOG who thinks he's a superconqueror but in reality only can make an impression on the type of followers who are the most likely to want to give up their right to think for themselves. I've seen this be kids in the worst case, especially young ladies.
What Dr. Wierwille thought of as "spiritual adultery" was in fact a normal and healthy growth in the individuals who were just thinking for themselves. Stopping this normal growth that comes from good questions hindered growth in the individual and even more stifled the growth in TWI leading to world view that is self centered and unable to stay sane. They ended up most resembling water circling the drain IMO. For me this applies to my little splinter group and TWI.
So then, what's called "spiritual jealosy" by the MOG and his most ardent followers ends up being in reality an insane and unworkable attempt to totally control and take all the glory for the church's progress, both in the individual and in the group. And this unworkable and twisted perspective has lead to disaster on many levels.
To me, this state of affairs is far worse than the imaginary soap operas on television.
(edited for grammar)
I was pleased to see that my recent post in "Soap Opera" seems to fit here on your thread Groucho. In answer to your question, these things are some of my thoughts.
I like the thread. I just learned how to use a new toy too, the quote feature.
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Jim
Having spent 2-3 years in a pretty much self-governing branch, I was stunned to watch the interactions between senior and junior way corps. VPW said one time that "we don't use people, we love people and we use things". What a lie. VF came out to coordinate a visit from VPW. He not only used the local believers and WC, he borderline abused them.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Good point Jim...many non corps folks in twi were having a ball fellowshipping in twigs and getting together...until the corps arrived. The Youth for Hitler program was set in motion and it was quite a site to behold. Watching these stormtroopers for Christ administer their "tough love" destroyed the genuine friendships and heartfelt sharings and replaced them with ultimatums, accusations and harshness.
Fear motivation became the order of the day and obligation took the place of desire...As I said in a different thread...the waycorps were the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz...
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waysider
I experienced both in Fellow Laborers.
At the helm of the program was the limb leader in office.
The limb leader determined the direction the program was to follow.
The first year, the limb leader, H.Y., was a guy who was very well liked and respected.
The program was tough but I always felt like he tried to be fair and compassionate.
I know he has posted here and I hope he understands that a lot of my negative comments about the program are not directed at him.
The second year we got a new limb leader.
The program changed direction about 1000%.
It was like living in a stalag.
Lots of abusive treatment and all the other things you described in your post, Groucho.
He was probably following orders from higher up or emulating what he, himself, had seen.
I think he may have posted here, also.
I really resented him for a long time for abuses I saw him inflict on others.
I think the abuses I saw him inflict on others were harder to take than the ones that were directed at me.
I no longer have any animosity toward him.
What's done is done. So, if you are reading this, JM, I sincerely hope you know I forgive you.
We all change over time.
My third year was a whole other ball of wax.
I'm not sure I'm ready to go there just yet.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Only my last set of Corps (Branch Coordinators) were of the "this is how you need to live your life" variety, and they weren't particularly good at it, especially the husband. If his life hadn't been micro-managed from above, I think he would have been an all right guy.
George
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cheranne
Yes i had a fun twig in OKC.just fellowshiping and being pretty normal i guess as you can expect from twi but then
I went out on the field for 3 years!
That was a horse of a differant color...by then i was long gone sucked into the vacum of the buisness of "building the
ministry(that just made me throw up a little even now!
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doojable
My first major encounter with a SSEMM (Self-Serving Egotistical Mini-MOG) was during my interim year.
He was apprentice Corps - but was well trained in the ways of bullying.
I remember the men in his family complaining because their fearless leader wouldn't let them walk around the house in their underwear - while he did so. See, he was married and didn't want his wife to see other men in their skivvies - but he was fair game. So, in a family of 4, his wife and the two men had to watch as he paraded around in his tighty-whities.
I still recall the lecture (near face-melting) he gave me in which he kept telling me that I needed to do something the way he pacifically requested.
The second encounter was almost comical.
I was in residence, in the kitchen for the day. The man leading the kitchen asked me to sharpen some knives and instructed me on the proper way to do it. (His was the right way BTW - though I didn't know it then.)
Along came a second guy - more like a branch leader - and he yelled a bit, rolled his eyes and mocked me as he showed me how he wanted me to sharpen that knife. It was the complete opposite of what the first guy had said.
Along comes the first guy, who gently re-instructed me. (I don't even remember if I mentioned why I had changed techniques.)
Once again the second mini-mog came along and became quite irate that I wasn't being meek and doing what he instructed, in the precise way he instructed me to do so.
At which point I looked up to see the guy running the kitchen standing in front of us, listening to everything that had just transpired.
It was a good morning.
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Ham
I think they used the "good guys" all along..
I'll admit, there were some REALLY NEAT people, whom I had the utmost respect for at the time, but that came at a price, experiences with loudmouthed, arrogant mogster types After the good guys were run off, I observed that there wasn't really any real reason left to listen to the abuse..
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rhino
So did the kitchen guy stand up to mini mog?
It seems some were schizo' ... they felt privileged and could play the mini mog role, but weren't quite "sold out" or totally delusional, so it was tempered a little. But maybe those types are the ones that left by 1986.
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DogLover
NC's current chief arse in this regard lives in the Asheville area and goes by the name J*m D**r ... specific enough?
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doojable
No, he didn't stand up to him. See he understood that sh(t only flows downhill.
Then again, no one ever knew when it was right to stand up to a mini-mog and when to back down. If you always backed down you weren't really a go-getter. If you always took a stand you were a trouble maker.
Now I understand why I breathed a sigh of relief when I walked away.
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TheHighWay
Oooohhhh, yeah.
I could go on for days about both the state coordinator and the local moggy-wanna-be that was in our area. Both were big men and used their size and voice to intimidate. Both were unreasonable, hot-tempered babies who loved to find fault with others to prove how spiritual they were. Both imposed legalism and "spiritual freedom" alternately simply by their whim, and both falsely accused folks of evil works and drove them out of the fellowships, only to be proved wrong some time later. Of course, no apologies were ever made for the damage done.
I got the chance before I left twi to stand toe-to-toe and eyeball-to-eyeball with one of them and not back down, (it's one of my sweetest memories) but I would still LOVE a chance to tell either one of these men what a complete and total arse they were!!
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Ham
Frogs in ponds..
Groucho, their offspring aren't any better either.
Now they have the little underlings digging yet another pond in the mississippi mud..
if I could have twelve volunteers who would work for hot dogs and millet.. I'd have a farm up and running in no time..
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jen-o
well, i saw a normal, loving, kind-hearted, gentle man go into the corps program... and come out a mean, nasty, cold-hearted bully...
i couldn't believe it... it was NOT the same person...
what the heck did they do to folks in that corps program??
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JeffSjo
I was pleased to see that my recent post in "Soap Opera" seems to fit here on your thread Groucho. In answer to your question, these things are some of my thoughts.
I like the thread. I just learned how to use a new toy too, the quote feature.
(edited for spelling)
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