I can appreciate what you are saying. In the waydaze we learned (?) a lingo and point of view that don't fit in well with any other "christian" community. So critiques of how they fit that mold, or how I am now may fit in with them, are impossible to avoid.
Then there are the words. . . VP changed the meanings of so many conventional terms, that I have to wrestle with understanding with how other people (who were not in the cult) use them. Like the word "gifts". . .
Guess it's gonna take a long, long time.
Sounds like that pastor could be a good thing. Willing to start by accepting it for what it is. Not so common.
Although I no longer attend churches I still hear Wierwille's (and Martindale's) voice rattling around in my head and sizing up people or institutions.
I regularly perform weddings, and occassionally someone wants to read or have me read First Corinthians 13 (the love chapter!) and the tape of the TWI explanation starts rolling.
Going to meetings that don't start on time cues the TWI speeches about 10 minutes early being on time.
I would love to walk into a church witn no pre-conceived notions,
and merely be a part of the fellowship.
It would be nice, wouldn't it?
:)
To me, they all smell like twi, to one degree or another. I think 99 percent of their certainty is based on a self generated illusion.. despite claims of having the power of God, along with the bold boasting that goes along with the claims, I have not seen anyone live their normal, day to day life any different than anyone else. No mighty healings, no mighty miracles. Some "results" I've seen them claim are due merely to the benefits of having a higher education, or having just plain dumb luck at times. Or the results of being connected with the community.
I think MOST churches won't just let a person just walk in the door, and be a REAL part of the fellowship anyway. They may greet one with a smile, and open arms, but there are many requirements, many agreements to be made.. it's almost like one has to leave their real self at the door when they go inside, to one extreme or the other.
Having become a grumpy old skeptic, I have to agree 100% with Ham. Not that I'm not calling Ham a grumpy old skeptic.
Our reactions are a product of our past experiences and are not easily controlled. My therapist tells me I can control my outward manifestations of my reactions while I give myself time to decide how to show others what they are. That's probably the best that I can do.
I read your post and think that the Lutheran pastor sounds pretty cool.
I have actually been able to walk into a church--a current way person and all--and not be criticized--even allowed to express my currently held beliefs in small group discussions. The pastor and others were not judgemental and were there to help me however much or little I wanted.
After 20 years of having "twig face" --you know everything is always ok and you could normally not be yourself--I am slowly letting down my walls and letting myself be me. All with the support of this church that I now have become a member of. (Still makes me laugh at times--that I am now a member of a church!)
Our reactions are a product of our past experiences and are not easily controlled. My therapist tells me I can control my outward manifestations of my reactions while I give myself time to decide how to show others what they are. That's probably the best that I can do.
BOY HOWDY!
If that don't just say it all !
Even after all these years I find myself having an almost instantaneous internal reaction to things that people do and say that are similar to things I saw in TWI.
I rarely SAY anything anymore but i do not get involved in groups because of it.
my dear dear friend want me to go to this bible study i went once it was not "complex" enough for me I guess without all the reference and greek and well you know the teachings we have all heard and how they are "explained.
i wasnt entertained enough i guess and have not gone back i mean two or three sentences form the SAME chapter and that is a teaching???
im still sick
I do not think church would like me. and i do not want to find anything "wrong" with the teaching.
yet
i am a cult head .
my life has been so different from most christians i know i cant relate .
sad?
how would i know any different and I have tried it just doesnt work my brain is fried or something.
I can appreciate what you are saying. In the waydaze we learned (?) a lingo and point of view that don't fit in well with any other "christian" community. So critiques of how they fit that mold, or how I am now may fit in with them, are impossible to avoid.
Then there are the words. . . VP changed the meanings of so many conventional terms, that I have to wrestle with understanding with how other people (who were not in the cult) use them. Like the word "gifts". . .
Wing --- Absolutely! The lingo and (coupled with) the teachings we all sat through while in twi seem to return to haunt us time and again (uninvited) like Oak mentioned. I've gotten to the point where I *cringe* less than I used to when I hear certain terms (when I do choose to go -- which isn't often), and hearing someone end a prayer with "In the name of Jesus" (instead of Jesus Christ, or Christ Jesus), doesn't bother me at all these days.
I think MOST churches won't just let a person just walk in the door, and be a REAL part of the fellowship anyway. They may greet one with a smile, and open arms, but there are many requirements, many agreements to be made.. it's almost like one has to leave their real self at the door when they go inside, to one extreme or the other.
Hey there Ham -- I hear that. I've been lucky enough to run across a few where that wasn't the case.
Your emphasis on the words MOST and REAL (sadly) apply to a lot of outfits.
I hung out with some Baptist folks for a while (3 or 4 ex-twi folks went to that church), and they (the Baptists) were very accomodating to me and my beliefs. I went to their *functions* more than I did the church service. I was always welcome and we talked about everything from soup to hay and had a good time doing it. Meebe I was welcome because I always brought the banjo, fiddle, and mandolin with me, not sure. ;) The pastor and I had a few talks, and he was able to understand where I was coming from and (now that I think about it), that's where I started *warming up* to the idea that other folks might not be so *out to lunch* as docvic portrayed.
Whatever the reason was that they (the Lutherans) held this event, is unknown to me. Perhaps they were looking to *up* their membership, but I suspect not. That's just a gut feeling (First thought -- perhaps!?) I have about the evening, since they did no prosyletizing (sp??), nor did they push the Gospel on anyone, and it was more about having fun than anything else. They plan on doing this once a month (once the school session starts again), and from what I was told -- the college students in that congregation expressed a wish to do something for the developementally-disabled folks here in town.
If that is/ was their main intention -- they'll get a good CRITIQUE from me.
One more nail driven into the twi *elitism* coffin.
I am listening to people who at one time was full of fire and truly interested in searching for ways to please God. To some that meant researching the Bible, taking classes going to fellowships etc.
I love you all so please help me understand how it can be that we have been so hurt or so mad that we stopped doing what we once loved to do.
I have the same issues with church and have only recently began going to a local congregation. And like some of you I have kept what I believe to myself just so I do not cause any conflict.
But why? Are we not being fooled? What happened with TWI was horrible and I don't fully understand why.
I remember when I first gave my heart over to God. It was before the Pentecostal church condemned me and before TWI deceived me. Before I knew squat about anything!
I did trust VPW and I was sucked into the trap of having confidence in man. That was a lesson that some never learn.
But I still have confidence in the God that I prayed to long before any of this took place.
I have let Him down many times but He has never let me down.
We all have been down some of the same paths and we all have gotten lost at one time or another but does that mean we are suppose to give up on the thing we once loved so much.
I am still scared, confused, doubtful that I will get involved only to be dissappointed again.
But there is one thing that keeps burning in me that tells me to keep loving, giving, learning and searching for ways to please God.
Because I am still convinced that all of us need to remember what we have been delivered from and what and why the sacrifice was made.
Christ, crucified, raised from the dead, so that we might have eternal life. That is where I've been and that is where I am headed. This is what gives me peace and joy and I don't intend on letting anyone or any organization take that away from me ever.
I am listening to people who at one time was full of fire and truly interested in searching for ways to please God. To some that meant researching the Bible, taking classes going to fellowships etc.
I love you all so please help me understand how it can be that we have been so hurt or so mad that we stopped doing what we once loved to do.
Well now lets start with that comment Jesus Christ found me and rescued me I was the one lOST the "searching for me was done by God almighty. I really do not think im a mini Christ anymore saving the world .. with the ego and ower trip that comes with that mind set.
I have the same issues with church and have only recently began going to a local congregation. And like some of you I have kept what I believe to myself just so I do not cause any conflict.
i have no issues with the church any church I think of them as any other group of people who enjoy getting together and doing what turns them on ... I think my attitude is the problem for them. I have no problem with conflict although i do not confront any group unless God tells me to say something it just inst loving to hurt anyone or be unkind and without love what do I have?
But why? Are we not being fooled? What happened with TWI was horrible and I don't fully understand why
.
trust me I fully understand why and i doubt i will be "fooled again, seems to be the core of the problem if you ask me.
I remember when I first gave my heart over to God. It was before the Pentecostal church condemned me and before TWI deceived me. Before I knew squat about anything!
I was born again before i took pfal , i had witnessed a pastor stand up in our small country church and say he didnt believe God was real when he was busted for having an affair with one of the youth group girls.. drama in church was not new to me.
I did trust VPW and I was sucked into the trap of having confidence in man. That was a lesson that some never learn.
I over learned this one omg did I.
But I still have confidence in the God that I prayed to long before any of this took place.
me to
I have let Him down many times but He has never let me down.
yeah im in the game still myself me too.
We all have been down some of the same paths and we all have gotten lost at one time or another but does that mean we are suppose to give up on the thing we once loved so much.
I went to the off shoots fellowships and look at that! same stuff! surprise surprise I do not love it when i hear a teaching or a prayer that i think is Wrong for example thank ou God my new born baby was born with mutiple disorders thankyou for the blessing this brings my life etc.. yeah bothers me. i will give it up thanks.
And that is the other big freaking lesson i took out of tWI no one has walked the same PATH as another we all came in and left with different mind sets and experiences hence the different opions and thoughts about where and what it means to each person. I do not believe in group think anymore. I never gave up on the "thing" that recuded me? He isnt a thing He is real and alive and very Powerful His name is Jesus christ.. what thing are you talking about? selling pfal class? naw I think iw ould sell flowers today. just me.
I am still scared, confused, doubtful that I will get involved only to be dissappointed again.
nah none of those emotions come to my mind mostly boredoom and intolerence for ignorance on top of drama I believe will be involved.
my life is disappointing enough thanks without church. pot luck suppers bother me ya never know what the hell meat is really in that dish do ya?
But there is one thing that keeps burning in me that tells me to keep loving, giving, learning and searching for ways to please God.
Because I am still convinced that all of us need to remember what we have been delivered from and what and why the sacrifice was made.
Christ, crucified, raised from the dead, so that we might have eternal life. That is where I've been and that is where I am headed. This is what gives me peace and joy and I don't intend on letting anyone or any organization take that away from me ever.
me too yet
It is not "taken away" it feels bigger and better but certainly less crowded with people who agree without knowing a better or bigger way to do it.
It might be a bit easier for me cause I have an 11-year-old daughter who LOVES Sunday school, so I'm motivated to take her.
When she was in kindergarten I put her in a private Christian school. They were Assembly of God. The school was ranked #1 academically in the state. The doctrine they taught at the kindergarten level was basically love thy neighbor, or Golden Rule-based, so I had no conflict. I did flinch when they prayed to Mary, the "mother of God", but I managed to remain seated. I didn't sing the songs that had "anti-twi" doctrine. They had said I had to attend church every week there while she was enrolled. I never did. I did attend the school functions that involved my child. Nobody ever confronted me on my absence.
We moved that summer to an area where there was a delightful little Baptist church, all country folk. My daughter's friend's family were members and she started joining them on their Wednesday night deal for the kids. Pretty soon it was Sunday school and Wednesday night. Then the church had their membership drive and some big Baptist evangelist came and taught the service. My daughter decided she wanted to be baptized. Totally DUNKED IN WATER in front of God and EVERYBODY.
I took a day to pray about it and decided to allow it. My child became a member of the church, but I did not.
I'll never forget what a Sunday school teacher told me my 5-year-old said. When asked how she handles fear of being alone in her life she replied, "I'n never alone. Jesus is always with me". I was floored.
I had done almost nothing to teach my child about God or Jesus. Yet, she had confidence in Jesus at age 5 that I didn't have after 15 years with twi!
I believe God knew my heart was to teach my child these things, but I had become disabled in that category of my life. Jesus filled in the gap there for me.
Now that child is 11 and still amazed to hear that I know anything at all about the Bible. When she's looking for a scripture and I can tell her where it is or the last part of one she's having difficulty with, she's like super-impressed that ol' Mom has a clue after all.
I pray that by the time she gets into the Youth Group age I'll be able to fully participate in the program with her.
I think the key is that God knows our hearts and knows when we're ready to do things we really want to. I think He's still in the miracle business and it's nothing short of a miracle when one of us ex-way kids makes it over that hurdle to make it through a "regular" church service.
Pond - If you lived in my town I'd bring you to the First Christian Church of Christ (they refer to it as "the Christian Church" here). These folks are happy to see someone attend. They don't pressure me to do a damn thing. Last time I went it was kinda funny cause a couple that had been sitting behind me introduced themselves to me and said they don't attend often, but when their schedules allow they try to. I thought to myself that there are probably as many reasons people don't attend as there are people. Having cult crap running through my head when a preacher is preaching is probably not the biggest issue in that congregation.
They don't care if everyone doesn't share the same exact view as the preacher. They treat everyone like a welcome guest. I've been invited to join, but when I declined, nobody pressured me in any way.
We have a church that does a coffe house here that brings in many disabled from the group homes to enjoy.
In twi the disabled or sick where kind of frightening really My twig leader had a a very disabled child and the hell and I mean hell they went through.. it is a sin.
they put her in a group home to join family corps. We prayed for her to be healed and i fully believe the family was more tormented by the religous belifs of why that child was ill and disabled than her disability itself. they got divorced etc... I mean what does God say about divorce? yet it was common in twi.
It is hard to describe but it is like twi felt anyone not appearing perfect form was a black mark on how well the "ministry" was doing. to be honest i didnt see much of the full sharing of all people in twi.. they always looked for a reason on just why this could happen and somone would be blamed.
not right not healthy not good. not loving and dare i say not god's Will for his creation.
I sent my kids to bible camp too they loved it and my son earned his "god and me" badge in boy scouts.
I do not know it does bother me when i hear info i believe is wrong from the bible, but i wouldnt say anything .
I might be wrong too i have used either twi or its offshoot as my source of information crap al these years i could be wrong . ??? dont know so i do not say.
sunday school bible camp for children keep things very simple basic christian chapter and verse.
no harm done.. i get bothered by the radio when they talk about how God uses people and I do not believe that... I hae holy spirit but im out of the game of competition thinking Im a mini Jesus saving the world. that is the part that bothers me most.
DM, interesting post; thank you. My experience has been shaped by a definite exploration of my beliefs, and a clear rejection of some of the Way's doctrines. This has put to silence many of the "voices" of yesterday when certain verses are read, or certain topics come up. I don't say that I'm sure I'm right, but I am convinced. I know what I believe.
I've had a very successful connection with diverse Christian communities since I left the Way. Sometimes I do get turned off, but I trust in God's spirit to guide me in that regard. I recently felt very uncomfortable in a large. lively non-denominational church, and I know why, and it's not because I'm still waybrained and they are not. But I've been surprisingly comfortable in a diverse range of Christian settings. A couple of years ago, I realized that sometimes the diversity is just culture. I still felt the presence of the love of God and the grace of God among them. I palpably felt it. (And I do mean diverse.)
Recovery from cult thinking is possible.... as BowTWI said, He's still in the business of doing miracles, and I say, He's still in the business of loving His children, and leading them aright.
Because I am still convinced that all of us need to remember what we have been delivered from and what and why the sacrifice was made.
Jeast, you are so right, and of course you don't need any confirmation from me. You have it from a far far higher authority.
Yes, organized religion can be every bit as dreadful and "counterfeit" as we were told. But No, God can and does work, yes, even as He did at times in the Way Ministry, to touch His children with His grace and absolutely personal presence, even among people whose doctrine and practice is not quite right.
Affter reading your post again I thought, if those folks have their hearts in the right place and just want to bless these people, well good on them. I'm sure there are a lot of good folks around.
Twi does leave you with a bad taste in your mouth for anything even remotely Christian.
I still cringe everytime I see guy in one of those backward collars.
I don't go to church...I didn't go to church before I was in twi and I don't go to church now...but that's just me. I don't care much for rituals. For those who DO go...more power to them. Going to church is a social event...a true Christian walk is a private and personal thing you do on your own...I having nothing against Christians gathering together for their church events...but I recognize that there IS a difference between a personal relationship with God and living vicariously through a preacher or group of people...
...If nothing else, my twi experience made me very leery of "spiritual organizations"...
With economic woes, some of these hucksters may very well find themselves forced to take their dog and pony show on the road.
They'll roam the countryside, searching for some little place to shake down, that will let them put on their power of gawd and casting out debil seminars, for a "donation" of course.
"hmm.. that sounds what the last guy did that came through about a month ago.."
"well, what can I say.. the debil sure keeps us busy.."
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wing
I can appreciate what you are saying. In the waydaze we learned (?) a lingo and point of view that don't fit in well with any other "christian" community. So critiques of how they fit that mold, or how I am now may fit in with them, are impossible to avoid.
Then there are the words. . . VP changed the meanings of so many conventional terms, that I have to wrestle with understanding with how other people (who were not in the cult) use them. Like the word "gifts". . .
Guess it's gonna take a long, long time.
Sounds like that pastor could be a good thing. Willing to start by accepting it for what it is. Not so common.
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Oakspear
Although I no longer attend churches I still hear Wierwille's (and Martindale's) voice rattling around in my head and sizing up people or institutions.
I regularly perform weddings, and occassionally someone wants to read or have me read First Corinthians 13 (the love chapter!) and the tape of the TWI explanation starts rolling.
Going to meetings that don't start on time cues the TWI speeches about 10 minutes early being on time.
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Ham
It would be nice, wouldn't it?
:)
To me, they all smell like twi, to one degree or another. I think 99 percent of their certainty is based on a self generated illusion.. despite claims of having the power of God, along with the bold boasting that goes along with the claims, I have not seen anyone live their normal, day to day life any different than anyone else. No mighty healings, no mighty miracles. Some "results" I've seen them claim are due merely to the benefits of having a higher education, or having just plain dumb luck at times. Or the results of being connected with the community.
I think MOST churches won't just let a person just walk in the door, and be a REAL part of the fellowship anyway. They may greet one with a smile, and open arms, but there are many requirements, many agreements to be made.. it's almost like one has to leave their real self at the door when they go inside, to one extreme or the other.
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Jim
Having become a grumpy old skeptic, I have to agree 100% with Ham. Not that I'm not calling Ham a grumpy old skeptic.
Our reactions are a product of our past experiences and are not easily controlled. My therapist tells me I can control my outward manifestations of my reactions while I give myself time to decide how to show others what they are. That's probably the best that I can do.
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penguin
Hey D!
I read your post and think that the Lutheran pastor sounds pretty cool.
I have actually been able to walk into a church--a current way person and all--and not be criticized--even allowed to express my currently held beliefs in small group discussions. The pastor and others were not judgemental and were there to help me however much or little I wanted.
After 20 years of having "twig face" --you know everything is always ok and you could normally not be yourself--I am slowly letting down my walls and letting myself be me. All with the support of this church that I now have become a member of. (Still makes me laugh at times--that I am now a member of a church!)
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waysider
BOY HOWDY!
If that don't just say it all !
Even after all these years I find myself having an almost instantaneous internal reaction to things that people do and say that are similar to things I saw in TWI.
Psychological bullying is a biggy for me.
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cheranne
ditto all of the above
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polar bear
Hey D did you get my pm.
May have been a nice idea, but by the way they asked about you sending them to their church it sounds like the free stuff was a hook.
If they wanted to do something nice why are they asking for folks to come to their church. Smells of religion to me.
But I must admit I do have some way brain left I'm sure.
To me like they are just trying to get their numbers up. An old twi trick.
Get the numbers up any way you can. Prey on the weak.
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excathedra
i just don't go
no problem there
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pond
I agree good post Dmiller
It is al those years of bible study.
I listen they make a mistake i discount them.
it is instilled in me like a flea I cant shake.
I rarely SAY anything anymore but i do not get involved in groups because of it.
my dear dear friend want me to go to this bible study i went once it was not "complex" enough for me I guess without all the reference and greek and well you know the teachings we have all heard and how they are "explained.
i wasnt entertained enough i guess and have not gone back i mean two or three sentences form the SAME chapter and that is a teaching???
im still sick
I do not think church would like me. and i do not want to find anything "wrong" with the teaching.
yet
i am a cult head .
my life has been so different from most christians i know i cant relate .
sad?
how would i know any different and I have tried it just doesnt work my brain is fried or something.
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waysider
Don't be so sure.
I think a lot of people here can "relate".
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Ham
I think you are brave.. a lot of people can't look that kind of darkness in the face..
you may find it isn't as dark as it seems..
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dmiller
Hey everybody -- thanks for the responses. :)
Wing --- Absolutely! The lingo and (coupled with) the teachings we all sat through while in twi seem to return to haunt us time and again (uninvited) like Oak mentioned. I've gotten to the point where I *cringe* less than I used to when I hear certain terms (when I do choose to go -- which isn't often), and hearing someone end a prayer with "In the name of Jesus" (instead of Jesus Christ, or Christ Jesus), doesn't bother me at all these days.
Hey there Ham -- I hear that. I've been lucky enough to run across a few where that wasn't the case.
Your emphasis on the words MOST and REAL (sadly) apply to a lot of outfits.
I hung out with some Baptist folks for a while (3 or 4 ex-twi folks went to that church), and they (the Baptists) were very accomodating to me and my beliefs. I went to their *functions* more than I did the church service. I was always welcome and we talked about everything from soup to hay and had a good time doing it. Meebe I was welcome because I always brought the banjo, fiddle, and mandolin with me, not sure. ;) The pastor and I had a few talks, and he was able to understand where I was coming from and (now that I think about it), that's where I started *warming up* to the idea that other folks might not be so *out to lunch* as docvic portrayed.
Whatever the reason was that they (the Lutherans) held this event, is unknown to me. Perhaps they were looking to *up* their membership, but I suspect not. That's just a gut feeling (First thought -- perhaps!?) I have about the evening, since they did no prosyletizing (sp??), nor did they push the Gospel on anyone, and it was more about having fun than anything else. They plan on doing this once a month (once the school session starts again), and from what I was told -- the college students in that congregation expressed a wish to do something for the developementally-disabled folks here in town.
If that is/ was their main intention -- they'll get a good CRITIQUE from me.
One more nail driven into the twi *elitism* coffin.
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jeast
I am listening to people who at one time was full of fire and truly interested in searching for ways to please God. To some that meant researching the Bible, taking classes going to fellowships etc.
I love you all so please help me understand how it can be that we have been so hurt or so mad that we stopped doing what we once loved to do.
I have the same issues with church and have only recently began going to a local congregation. And like some of you I have kept what I believe to myself just so I do not cause any conflict.
But why? Are we not being fooled? What happened with TWI was horrible and I don't fully understand why.
I remember when I first gave my heart over to God. It was before the Pentecostal church condemned me and before TWI deceived me. Before I knew squat about anything!
I did trust VPW and I was sucked into the trap of having confidence in man. That was a lesson that some never learn.
But I still have confidence in the God that I prayed to long before any of this took place.
I have let Him down many times but He has never let me down.
We all have been down some of the same paths and we all have gotten lost at one time or another but does that mean we are suppose to give up on the thing we once loved so much.
I am still scared, confused, doubtful that I will get involved only to be dissappointed again.
But there is one thing that keeps burning in me that tells me to keep loving, giving, learning and searching for ways to please God.
Because I am still convinced that all of us need to remember what we have been delivered from and what and why the sacrifice was made.
Christ, crucified, raised from the dead, so that we might have eternal life. That is where I've been and that is where I am headed. This is what gives me peace and joy and I don't intend on letting anyone or any organization take that away from me ever.
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Ham
I don't know how to answer all of that..
where did the fire go..
I don't think it really went anywhere.
I don't think the fire is out.. maybe it's more focussed now for some of us..
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pond
me too yet
It is not "taken away" it feels bigger and better but certainly less crowded with people who agree without knowing a better or bigger way to do it.
hope this helps.
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waysider
I'm not sure I know how to answer your question, jeast.
Seeing things in perspective now, I realize I never turned my back on God, I walked away from a cult.
That's about the best I can explain it.
It reminds me of an old joke that has some wisdom laced in it
I saw a man standing next to a wall.
He was methodically banging his head against it.
I said, "Why are you doing that? Doesn't it hurt?"
"Yes", he said, "It hurts terribly----but it feels so good when I stop."
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bowtwi
It might be a bit easier for me cause I have an 11-year-old daughter who LOVES Sunday school, so I'm motivated to take her.
When she was in kindergarten I put her in a private Christian school. They were Assembly of God. The school was ranked #1 academically in the state. The doctrine they taught at the kindergarten level was basically love thy neighbor, or Golden Rule-based, so I had no conflict. I did flinch when they prayed to Mary, the "mother of God", but I managed to remain seated. I didn't sing the songs that had "anti-twi" doctrine. They had said I had to attend church every week there while she was enrolled. I never did. I did attend the school functions that involved my child. Nobody ever confronted me on my absence.
We moved that summer to an area where there was a delightful little Baptist church, all country folk. My daughter's friend's family were members and she started joining them on their Wednesday night deal for the kids. Pretty soon it was Sunday school and Wednesday night. Then the church had their membership drive and some big Baptist evangelist came and taught the service. My daughter decided she wanted to be baptized. Totally DUNKED IN WATER in front of God and EVERYBODY.
I took a day to pray about it and decided to allow it. My child became a member of the church, but I did not.
I'll never forget what a Sunday school teacher told me my 5-year-old said. When asked how she handles fear of being alone in her life she replied, "I'n never alone. Jesus is always with me". I was floored.
I had done almost nothing to teach my child about God or Jesus. Yet, she had confidence in Jesus at age 5 that I didn't have after 15 years with twi!
I believe God knew my heart was to teach my child these things, but I had become disabled in that category of my life. Jesus filled in the gap there for me.
Now that child is 11 and still amazed to hear that I know anything at all about the Bible. When she's looking for a scripture and I can tell her where it is or the last part of one she's having difficulty with, she's like super-impressed that ol' Mom has a clue after all.
I pray that by the time she gets into the Youth Group age I'll be able to fully participate in the program with her.
I think the key is that God knows our hearts and knows when we're ready to do things we really want to. I think He's still in the miracle business and it's nothing short of a miracle when one of us ex-way kids makes it over that hurdle to make it through a "regular" church service.
Pond - If you lived in my town I'd bring you to the First Christian Church of Christ (they refer to it as "the Christian Church" here). These folks are happy to see someone attend. They don't pressure me to do a damn thing. Last time I went it was kinda funny cause a couple that had been sitting behind me introduced themselves to me and said they don't attend often, but when their schedules allow they try to. I thought to myself that there are probably as many reasons people don't attend as there are people. Having cult crap running through my head when a preacher is preaching is probably not the biggest issue in that congregation.
They don't care if everyone doesn't share the same exact view as the preacher. They treat everyone like a welcome guest. I've been invited to join, but when I declined, nobody pressured me in any way.
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pond
We have a church that does a coffe house here that brings in many disabled from the group homes to enjoy.
In twi the disabled or sick where kind of frightening really My twig leader had a a very disabled child and the hell and I mean hell they went through.. it is a sin.
they put her in a group home to join family corps. We prayed for her to be healed and i fully believe the family was more tormented by the religous belifs of why that child was ill and disabled than her disability itself. they got divorced etc... I mean what does God say about divorce? yet it was common in twi.
It is hard to describe but it is like twi felt anyone not appearing perfect form was a black mark on how well the "ministry" was doing. to be honest i didnt see much of the full sharing of all people in twi.. they always looked for a reason on just why this could happen and somone would be blamed.
not right not healthy not good. not loving and dare i say not god's Will for his creation.
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pond
I sent my kids to bible camp too they loved it and my son earned his "god and me" badge in boy scouts.
I do not know it does bother me when i hear info i believe is wrong from the bible, but i wouldnt say anything .
I might be wrong too i have used either twi or its offshoot as my source of information crap al these years i could be wrong . ??? dont know so i do not say.
sunday school bible camp for children keep things very simple basic christian chapter and verse.
no harm done.. i get bothered by the radio when they talk about how God uses people and I do not believe that... I hae holy spirit but im out of the game of competition thinking Im a mini Jesus saving the world. that is the part that bothers me most.
hard to explain.
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anotherDan
DM, interesting post; thank you. My experience has been shaped by a definite exploration of my beliefs, and a clear rejection of some of the Way's doctrines. This has put to silence many of the "voices" of yesterday when certain verses are read, or certain topics come up. I don't say that I'm sure I'm right, but I am convinced. I know what I believe.
I've had a very successful connection with diverse Christian communities since I left the Way. Sometimes I do get turned off, but I trust in God's spirit to guide me in that regard. I recently felt very uncomfortable in a large. lively non-denominational church, and I know why, and it's not because I'm still waybrained and they are not. But I've been surprisingly comfortable in a diverse range of Christian settings. A couple of years ago, I realized that sometimes the diversity is just culture. I still felt the presence of the love of God and the grace of God among them. I palpably felt it. (And I do mean diverse.)
Recovery from cult thinking is possible.... as BowTWI said, He's still in the business of doing miracles, and I say, He's still in the business of loving His children, and leading them aright.
Jeast, you are so right, and of course you don't need any confirmation from me. You have it from a far far higher authority.
Yes, organized religion can be every bit as dreadful and "counterfeit" as we were told. But No, God can and does work, yes, even as He did at times in the Way Ministry, to touch His children with His grace and absolutely personal presence, even among people whose doctrine and practice is not quite right.
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polar bear
Affter reading your post again I thought, if those folks have their hearts in the right place and just want to bless these people, well good on them. I'm sure there are a lot of good folks around.
Twi does leave you with a bad taste in your mouth for anything even remotely Christian.
I still cringe everytime I see guy in one of those backward collars.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I don't go to church...I didn't go to church before I was in twi and I don't go to church now...but that's just me. I don't care much for rituals. For those who DO go...more power to them. Going to church is a social event...a true Christian walk is a private and personal thing you do on your own...I having nothing against Christians gathering together for their church events...but I recognize that there IS a difference between a personal relationship with God and living vicariously through a preacher or group of people...
...If nothing else, my twi experience made me very leery of "spiritual organizations"...
...especially when they want my money.
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Ham
With economic woes, some of these hucksters may very well find themselves forced to take their dog and pony show on the road.
They'll roam the countryside, searching for some little place to shake down, that will let them put on their power of gawd and casting out debil seminars, for a "donation" of course.
"hmm.. that sounds what the last guy did that came through about a month ago.."
"well, what can I say.. the debil sure keeps us busy.."
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