so here they are all powerful filled with the power of christ ABLE to do ALL things etc... to be feared and respected.
It is the devil who runs from the power of our Father not the other way around.
explain to me HOW if one has all this power from on high we are just to freak out and run away or throw away a person who is "possessed"? what is the big deal hmm?
to me it sounds like fear. I know when Im afraid I stand for the most I meet it head on I seek the fear and talk to it work through it and go for it , if it is a person I think is out to get me I do not throw them away I engage until the issue is resolved.
well if they have a gun or something I use wisdom of course, but my point is why is it if the "devil" is involved we are to be fearful?
I remember Del Duncan speaking years ago. He said, why should any Christian be afraid of a devil spirit?? He said, they should be the ones quaking and shaking when they ran into us - Sons of God. I still agree with that today.
He talked about how he went to meet Anton Zander LaVey - the head of the Satanic church, and the guy literally cringed just being around Del and couldn't get rid of him fast enough. That's neither here nor there, but the point is, yes, Christ overcame for us. He has delivered us from the Adversary's kingdom and all of his little hosts here. Just as Michael said, the Lord rebuke you, we can do the same.
But, I have a feeling most of us, if we ever did run into a "real" devil spirit would faint. Actually, today, I think most of your real cases of possession, are in mental institutions, like the guy in the tombs. People can't deal with them and they are put away.
In 1975 I took the "Renewed Mind" class for the first time! I went to the opening night class and I was excited! We were all pumped to learn as much as we could!
TWI was not as corrupted then or at least we didn't know about it in Wisconsin...and we had loving honest leadership J. Cl@y, Gilb~rt Pr~de and many more following them! This is not
to say that some did not become corrupted in later years We all genuinely loved and helped one another; we were the hippies and the flower children and their
subsequent "babes".... We were heavily affect by the 60's.... and baby boomer standards!
Now looking to find GOD's standards! Probably why I don't fit into this current pluralistic society of today with it's all encompassing and ever changing values!
values change ...GOD's standards never change! A value is not a standard! TWI leadership made huge errors in all areas, caused many much evil with their deceitful corruptions, but I
learned one of many very important things in those years I learn how to search GOD's word and learn HIS heart and be His for eternity!
It was a true desire and hunger to know GOD that kept me in TWI. I knew so many people who needed and wanted help; and I wanted to give and help! GOD has saved me so many
many times throughout my life. May more times than i am sure that I know of.
In those days my early day in TWI, it was considered semi-safe to hitch-hike....the 60' and 70's! It might help you to understand that back then I was a naive flower child... and absolute
trust and love was part of my make-up! I had a great deal of trouble believing that anyone could or would desire to be intentionally evil!
I had just read and studied the gospels and I wanted to understand them as much as I could to help people the way that Jesus Christ did! I was getting ready to take the "Advanced
Class" Little did I know that GOD was getting me ready to live, grow and learn so I could face all challenges to come!
One time when I was hitch-hiking is an example that conveys this time. I always witnessed to all my rides...so I was never scared...How could GOD allow anyone to hurt me...it has
always worked for me..It always will! Hey, You can be sure I did use the wisdom and knowledge of the word I had learned as well!
I always asked GOD what to do and whom to ride with! This time though as the driver drove passed my Road I became a little concerned; and as I was about to tell Him that; we were
immediately pulled over by detectives who in no uncertain terms informed me that this man I was riding with was their number one suspect in the serial murders in my area...and asked
me how I would like my next stop to be on a slab in the morgue. I was of course very thankful that GOD had them there to save me. I decided then to pay more attention to the news
even though it was a worldly thing and we had been encouraged to concentrate heavy if not solely on GOD and his word. As usual I knew that something had to be wrong with that
imbalanced instruction...It just didn't fit with other scriptures and when that happened I just found the balance and made no obvious issue of it....As I wasn't too into debating
issues...just looking for the Truth of GOD's word and how to love GOD to the best of my ability!
Now back to the Renewed Mind class; I just had to lay down some back ground...Seeing peoples hearts is a really a fiercely important issue to understanding anything written; and seeing
people's individual hearts means more to me, than I can convey alone here and now...I would always much rather be face to face or at least voice to voice!!!!!
On the next day I received a called from my Gramma...My Parents were tooooooo upset to have called....! My Brother Gary was dead! This was a horrible shock to me! My roommate
Vet@ Ca$$tile loving went home with me for the funeral! I was devastated and heart broken; so it meant everything to me that she was there with me! I cannot explain fully just how
incomprehensible Gary's loss was to me. Then to further find out that he had been murdered seemed to even more overwhelmed me; because no one in my family would have it
investigated. They would accept the corner's ruling that he had committed suicide, even knowing that he had not!!!!
His first job and first week as an iron worker; He rode to work with a friend of my older brother. He is the man whom I believe killed Gary. He was well known for his volatile fits of rage!
They had stopped at a bar to cash their checks, but couldn't...saw my older brother. Then went to another bar to cash them; where that man the driver got into a fight and broke some
guy's nose! Then they left to come home!
My brother was found with his head in a pool of blood three inches deep. At the hospital they cut off his clothes. The chalk pencil in his pocket had not been broken. There were no
bruises cuts or scrapes on His body! The coroner reported that He died of a force blow to the head, which caused his brain to shift immediately, herniate and burn out!
Yet the driver said he was upset and jumped out out of the car at 50 miles per hour! As so often it is, as here the evidents speaks loudly and clearly. Yet,the investigation was minimal at
best! The man whom I believe killed my brother will now await GOD's judgment! There are so many people that I would hate to be in their shoes. Tough job GOD has being the searcher
of all hearts and righteous judge of all!!!
When we got back Vet@ knew how despondent I was and let me to lay down till my make up class would begin! When she tried to wake me up I could hear her calling me and getting
other people to try to get me up. I could hear them all; But I could also hear another stronger more pervasive insistent voice telling me you don't have to get up....over and over again
drowning them all out! I thought that it was my own inner voice, the one that you talk things over with yourself with... or at least I do this. They went and got Gilb~rt Pr~de our branch
leader...He had a heart of gold and the wisdom of the word! Next thing I knew I was thrown or layed on the floor.
Rev Pr~de was over me commanding a devil spirit/spirits to come out of me! I could hear the end of it when I stopped listening to the pervasive voice telling me I did not have to get
up and heard GP's voice loudly! Then I woke up and he loving told me that I would have never woken up with out him casting it/them out! I for one was thankful!!! If You knew me you
would know that what people think, assess and judge randomly means very little to me, especially compared with what is true and right. I was treated with as much love as Jesus Christ
gave those He cast devil spirits out of! Everyones continued to love and help me heal from my brothers murder and reinforced ed in me the absolute power of GOD's LOVE!!!
It doesn't matter to me whether it was a devil spirit or not; nor does it matter whether I was possessed or not, nor whether some might have feared me or thought evil of me or less of me!
What does matter to me is the love, compassion and life lessens that I have received from GOD and my brothers and sisters. Thank YOU GOD and All!
I wasn't called "possessed" but one leader said she recognized spiritual influence, when I was going through a bout of depression. This is actually more accurate, since the phrase "possessed with a devil" in KJV is the translation of one word in Greek: daimonizomai (from which other Christians outside TWI get the word "demonized"). It doesn't necessarily mean completely controlled or taken over, as we often used "possessed" to mean. It can mean strongly influenced or affected by demons too.
Also, I agree that not all cases of illness, physical or mental, are caused by a demon, though some are. The gospels make a distinction in a couple of places between those who were sick and those who were possessed, when they were brought to Jesus.
BTW, I noticed most of the posters are using the old TWI term "devil spirits." That whole thing W@lt3r C#mm!ns taught in the DWA class about not liking the word "demon" and preferring the term "devil spirits" was not really accurate. He said "demon" sounded too much like "cute little guys with pitchforks" or something like that, and that daimon was a Greek word, so we should "either speak English or speak Greek." But "demon" is a perfectly good English word, even though it was derived from the Greek word. And it's a better translation.
The KJV uses "devil" to translate daimon or daimonion a few times, and other times refers to "unclean spirits." (This is in addition to the places where the word daimonizomai is translated "possessed with a devil.") But it doesn't use the phrase "devil spirits" anywhere. And that's just KJV. Most of the more modern translations use the word "demon" for these spirit beings, and use "devil" to translate diabolos, which is THE devil, or Satan. This is more correct, since there is a difference between Satan and the demons.
Of course, it doesn't matter what you call them, but this is just another example of Way jargon separating us from other "normal" Christians.
I see Twinky beat me to it....The Lord Jesus Christ bought me "lock, stock and barrel" so I guess HE is the owner of said property and therefore it is not an inaccurate definition to say that I AM POSSESSED!
PRAISE GOD, HALLELULAH!
Now, however, no one in TWI ever said it to my face....but they might have behind my back in all of those closed door meetings where only the upper echelon on the local level could attend. Hardee-har-har! Thank God, I was never invited to attend any of these.
I did in fact have problems with devil spirits possessing my mind and body before and just after I got "in". I was tormented at night when in bed and feared the time of sleep when it was dark. I didn't "fear the darkness", but rather feared to sleep when it was dark. It would happen just after I would doze off, and I would become paralyzed with fear and could not scream out. All the while horrible faces would appear before me either in my mind or in a weird vision and tell me that I was now "the devil's property" and that my soul was lost to God and would forever burn in hell. The only thing that gave me any relief was praying to God within my mind when it happened, begging Him to have mercy on my useless soul, and as I prayed constantly until morning, I somehow gained some relief but would be exhausted and in a mass of sweat drenched and twisted sheets. But if I would stop praying my begging prayer and tried to sleep, the torments would begin again and the taunting would continue. It was after the exhausted night of terror that I could finally sleep when it was daylight in my room. That was, of course if I didn't have to go to work that following morning. These events definitely increased after I started going to twig.
I was too embarrassed to tell my twig leader about it at first, but as I began to learn in twig that I, as a Child of God had rights as one of His Children, that I felt that it would be okay to ask one of the WOWs about it, and what to do. And so, when I asked, the gal asked if I'd mind telling the twig leader, and I said that I had no problem with it. The TL then told me that I had every right to tell those lousy spirits to leave my head, my body and my bedroom and house in the name of Jesus Christ. That there was absolutely power over the devil and his fallen angels in the Name of Jesus Christ. And that instead of "begging God" in my manner of prayer, that I should claim God's promises that they showed me from the Bible. Claim those promises in the Name Above All Names. They showed me John 14:12 -"the works that I do ye shall do also"....they showed me how Jesus commanded the evil spirits to leave and how he didn't beat around the bush and how they obeyed his authority.....and they showed me that with Christ within me, I had that same right and authority. They said that they'd pray for me.
Sometime shortly after that, on a hot summer night, it happened again. I couldn't yell out. The horrible faces came again and taunted me. I couldn't move my body. But in my mind it was like; "Aha! I have the ace up my sleeve now! Ha"! So instead of begging God to help me, I prayed silently to God and asked Him to help me and that on "the count of three" I would sit bolt upright and rebuke those spirits in the name of Jesus Christ. I remembering counting; "One-two-three!" And with all the strength I could muster, I sat straight up in bed, and I remember this as clearly as if it were yesterday;
"In the name of Jesus Christ get out of here! I rebuke you spirits in the name of Jesus Christ my Lord who God raised from the dead! You have no power over me because I am a son of the Most High God! Get out and stay out!" And with that, there was a popping sound in my head and then: Instant peace. A peace like I had never known before. Tears streamed down my face as I knew that I never had to fear that torment from the devil ever again. I was so overjoyed it was incredible. And I remember speaking in tongues then and it just bubbled forth from me. I had tried it before with one of the WOWs who had tried to get me to "wait for the class", and I did it some at that time, but nothing like that moment when God delivered me from those evil spirits who had tormented me ever since I had seen the movie The Exorcist during my drug days. I also remember the joy of the realization that the Word of God was really REAL. That I would in fact spend eternity with my Big Brother JC and the rest of the whole Family of God. I remember giggling about it sitting in that bed, intermittently speaking in tongues and just talking to and thanking God for all that He had done for me after I had prayed for him to rescue me that night on that boat when I had fallen to my knees in prayer to Him to "send someone". And what was cool was that when I told the WOWs, they simply rejoiced with me and no one judged me at all for having "been possessed". They were like; "Don't even think about it. He can't touch you anymore". We all just rejoiced over the deliverance.
So yeah, I would say that I was at one time possessed, and am forever thankful to God for showing me how to forever overcome the power those demons held over me...
Very interesting Jonny ... I had a college roommate .. a friend from high school, that went to see The Exorcist" and couldn't sleep with the lights out for a month or so.
Another interpretation may be that they were not spirits, but your own brain, with fear induced images from the movie. When you changed from fear to assertiveness ... your mind rejected the self produced images, and you felt you had control.
Of course I don't know ... but I just remember how amazed I was at the influence of that movie on my engineering student friend. But he wa in aeronautical engineering, so maybe he was just spacey ...
I don't remember if anyone ever said I was posessed. But there were several times I was told I wasn't "controllong my mind" or I was "out of control" just because I didn't agree with someone or something. Like the time when they tried to get me to pray for the board of trustees to either die or change. I disagreed in a meeting about having 24 hours of prayer for this. I refused to pray for anyone to die. OMG. Was I ever roasted. They all took turns ripping me to shreds. I was only a kid too.
I don't remember if anyone ever said I was posessed. But there were several times I was told I wasn't "controllong my mind" or I was "out of control" just because I didn't agree with someone or something. Like the time when they tried to get me to pray for the board of trustees to either die or change. I disagreed in a meeting about having 24 hours of prayer for this. I refused to pray for anyone to die. OMG. Was I ever roasted. They all took turns ripping me to shreds. I was only a kid too.
I don't remember if anyone ever said I was posessed. But there were several times I was told I wasn't "controllong my mind" or I was "out of control" just because I didn't agree with someone or something. Like the time when they tried to get me to pray for the board of trustees to either die or change. I disagreed in a meeting about having 24 hours of prayer for this. I refused to pray for anyone to die. OMG. Was I ever roasted. They all took turns ripping me to shreds. I was only a kid too.
Very sick, intensely sick. But I think they were more outraged that I dared to challenge it because they knew I was right. (They cancelled the 24 hours of prayer, blamed it on me). I couldn't sleep for two days because while they were ripping me to shreads, some of the things they said about me were true. But wth, I was a teenager. Who was perfect at that age anyway? But I was so overwhelmed by it. Now I would just say, so what I didn't clean my room last week? It's even weirder that you know about it and care.
I did in fact have problems with devil spirits possessing my mind and body before and just after I got "in". I was tormented at night when in bed and feared the time of sleep when it was dark. I didn't "fear the darkness", but rather feared to sleep when it was dark. It would happen just after I would doze off, and I would become paralyzed with fear and could not scream out. All the while horrible faces would appear before me either in my mind or in a weird vision and tell me that I was now "the devil's property" and that my soul was lost to God and would forever burn in hell. The only thing that gave me any relief was praying to God within my mind when it happened, begging Him to have mercy on my useless soul, and as I prayed constantly until morning, I somehow gained some relief but would be exhausted and in a mass of sweat drenched and twisted sheets. But if I would stop praying my begging prayer and tried to sleep, the torments would begin again and the taunting would continue. It was after the exhausted night of terror that I could finally sleep when it was daylight in my room. That was, of course if I didn't have to go to work that following morning. These events definitely increased after I started going to twig.
I was too embarrassed to tell my twig leader about it at first, but as I began to learn in twig that I, as a Child of God had rights as one of His Children, that I felt that it would be okay to ask one of the WOWs about it, and what to do. And so, when I asked, the gal asked if I'd mind telling the twig leader, and I said that I had no problem with it. The TL then told me that I had every right to tell those lousy spirits to leave my head, my body and my bedroom and house in the name of Jesus Christ. That there was absolutely power over the devil and his fallen angels in the Name of Jesus Christ. And that instead of "begging God" in my manner of prayer, that I should claim God's promises that they showed me from the Bible. Claim those promises in the Name Above All Names. They showed me John 14:12 -"the works that I do ye shall do also"....they showed me how Jesus commanded the evil spirits to leave and how he didn't beat around the bush and how they obeyed his authority.....and they showed me that with Christ within me, I had that same right and authority. They said that they'd pray for me.
Sometime shortly after that, on a hot summer night, it happened again. I couldn't yell out. The horrible faces came again and taunted me. I couldn't move my body. But in my mind it was like; "Aha! I have the ace up my sleeve now! Ha"! So instead of begging God to help me, I prayed silently to God and asked Him to help me and that on "the count of three" I would sit bolt upright and rebuke those spirits in the name of Jesus Christ. I remembering counting; "One-two-three!" And with all the strength I could muster, I sat straight up in bed, and I remember this as clearly as if it were yesterday;
"In the name of Jesus Christ get out of here! I rebuke you spirits in the name of Jesus Christ my Lord who God raised from the dead! You have no power over me because I am a son of the Most High God! Get out and stay out!" And with that, there was a popping sound in my head and then: Instant peace. A peace like I had never known before. Tears streamed down my face as I knew that I never had to fear that torment from the devil ever again. I was so overjoyed it was incredible. And I remember speaking in tongues then and it just bubbled forth from me. I had tried it before with one of the WOWs who had tried to get me to "wait for the class", and I did it some at that time, but nothing like that moment when God delivered me from those evil spirits who had tormented me ever since I had seen the movie The Exorcist during my drug days. I also remember the joy of the realization that the Word of God was really REAL. That I would in fact spend eternity with my Big Brother JC and the rest of the whole Family of God. I remember giggling about it sitting in that bed, intermittently speaking in tongues and just talking to and thanking God for all that He had done for me after I had prayed for him to rescue me that night on that boat when I had fallen to my knees in prayer to Him to "send someone". And what was cool was that when I told the WOWs, they simply rejoiced with me and no one judged me at all for having "been possessed". They were like; "Don't even think about it. He can't touch you anymore". We all just rejoiced over the deliverance.
So yeah, I would say that I was at one time possessed, and am forever thankful to God for showing me how to forever overcome the power those demons held over me...
"We're brought back from the devil's power,
we're set apart by Christ,
and we're reconciling men to God
serving them the bread of Life......!"
Did you ever look into this to see if it might be a more common occurrence--like a sleep disorder? It is in fact called sleep paralysis and often is accompanied by a sense or vision of evil snd fear. Lots of people have it. It is not that rare.
Devil Spirits??
Sleep paralysis is a common condition characterized by transient partial or total paralysis of skeletal muscles and areflexia that occurs upon awakening from sleep or less often while falling asleep. Stimuli such as touch or sound may terminate the episode, which usually has a duration of seconds to minutes. This condition may occur in normal subjects or be associated with narcolepsy, cataplexy, and hypnagogic hallucinations. The pathophysiology of this condition is closely related to the normal hypotonia that occur during REM sleep[1]. When considered to be a disease, isolated sleep paralysis is classified as MeSH D020188.[2]
Physiologically, it is closely related to the paralysis that occurs as a natural part of REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, which is known as REM atonia. Sleep paralysis occurs when the brain awakes from a REM state, but the bodily paralysis persists. This leaves the person fully conscious, but unable to move. In addition, the state may be accompanied by terrifying hallucinations (hypnopompic or hypnagogic) and an acute sense of danger [3]. Sleep paralysis is particularly frightening to the individual due to the vividness of such hallucinations[4]. The hallucinatory element to sleep paralysis makes it even more likely that someone will interpret the experience as a dream, since completely fanciful, or dream-like, objects may appear in the room alongside one's normal vision. Some scientists have proposed this condition as an explanation for alien abductions and ghostly encounters.[5] A study by Susan Blackmore and Marcus Cox of the University of the West of England suggested that alien abductions are related to sleep paralysis rather than to temporal lobe lability.[6]
The paralysis can last from several seconds to several minutes "after which the individual may experience panic symptoms and the realization that the distorted perceptions were false" [7]. When there is an absence of narcolepsy, sleep paralysis is referred to as isolated sleep paralysis (ISP) [8]. "ISP appears to be far more common and recurrent among African Americans than among White Americans or Nigerian Blacks" [9], and is often referred to within African American communities as "the witch riding your back" [
I know what I know. And no amount of psychiatric jargon will convince me otherwise. You may try to contain the spiritual world in a jar of psycho-babble, but you will fail miserably in trying to do so, and you will be defeated. Satan is real, and so are his fallen angels. Think what you want, but your thoughts will never change the Truth. And I do not care what you think...
I know what I know. And no amount of psychiatric jargon will convince me otherwise. You may try to contain the spiritual world in a jar of psycho-babble, but you will fail miserably in trying to do so, and you will be defeated. Satan is real, and so are his fallen angels. Think what you want, but your thoughts will never change the Truth. And I do not care what you think...
It could be that the psychological and physiological terminology are simply scientific ways of describing whatever was happening in your brain, regardless of whether it was caused by something "natural" or "supernatural." Jesus allowed for the possibility of both.
Matt 4:24 - And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
Notice it mentions sick people "with divers diseases and torments" AND "those which were possessed with devils [daimonizomai]." Then it mentions "those which were lunatick" AND "those that had the palsy." Jesus recognized that some of these things were caused by demons and some were not. But the bottom line was, he healed them all. It doesn't so much matter what it was, as much as the fact that Jesus healed you.
I know what I know. And no amount of psychiatric jargon will convince me otherwise. You may try to contain the spiritual world in a jar of psycho-babble, but you will fail miserably in trying to do so, and you will be defeated. Satan is real, and so are his fallen angels. Think what you want, but your thoughts will never change the Truth. And I do not care what you think...
Oh my goodness--I was trying to COMFORT you that you were not possesed!! I know this disorder--I and my MOTHER have both had it. It CAN occur abruptly--
we went to a DOCTOR. If it happens again you can go to a Sleep Clinic--they can help you.
Satan is not going to defeat me--oh my goodness. I am a Christian and I believe in Jesus who will NOT share His temple with a demon.
And Johnny--people who believe they are abducted by aliens have a form of this. What is their excuse--they know what they know as well. With the same dogged
determination as you.
Did you ever wake yourself up from a dream? You can use the same techniques with this. That is why rebuking may have worked for you.
Once I learned what it was and how to awake from it--it abruptly went away--never had it since.
Let's be somewhat reasonable-instead of looking to Satan first. He is a bit more crafty Me Thinks!
Wordwolf-believe what you wish--demon possesion is very rare-it was NOT demons after me--I had a bout with this stuff-there are more forms than one. :)
I know what I know. And no amount of psychiatric jargon will convince me otherwise. You may try to contain the spiritual world in a jar of psycho-babble, but you will fail miserably in trying to do so, and you will be defeated. Satan is real, and so are his fallen angels. Think what you want, but your thoughts will never change the Truth. And I do not care what you think...
Just wanted to add--when someone offers you a more reasonable explanation for something. Is your first response (in the real world) that they will "Fail miserably"
and that they will "be defeated" ?
Just curious as this seems a rather EXTREME reaction to another explanation.
Did I ever say satan was not real? Or did I just offer up a reasoned alternative?
Did I try to contain the entire spiritual world in a jar of psycho-babble? Seems to me I recognized what you had--and tried to comfort you that you were not possesed.
Johnny--your reaction to an explanation seems to be a bit over-zealous. Hyperbole--we were MASTERS of it in TWI.
I was thinking along the same lines. I used to have horrible night mares from the time I was a child. Yes, even the demons, swooping and diving around me, sometimes being stuck under water, a mean baby sitter.... In time, I learned to recognize a night mare when it was starting and wake myself up.
When I was in twi, I rebuked satan in my dream and could wake up. After I left twi...I`d recognize it was a dream and just wake myself up.
I was wondering if it could be just a recognition and triggering thing. I just know that in my dreams, the rebuking was as effective as pulling the corners of my eyes back to awaken myself.
in which the person is aware that he or she is dreaming while the dream is in progress, also known as a
conscious dream
. When the dreamer is lucid, he or she can actively participate in the dream environment without any of the inhibitions or limitations that otherwise would feel natural to persons who incorrectly believe they are in the "real" waking world. Lucid dreams can be extremely real and vivid depending on a person's level of
I have done this ... haven't thought of it for a long time ... glad this came up. You recognize the dream on some level, but decide to stay in the dream, but you control it. So maybe you were falling, but you fly ... up up and away ... superman ... or up up and away, in my beautiful balloon ... whatever you want ... wahooo ... can't wait to go to sleep tonight ....
If you have recurrent dreams that perhaps relate to some real world event, it may be that control through a lucid dream may give you more control over the situation in the real world as well ... giving yourself emotional power over it, mostly I'm thinking. This can free you from submissive responses maybe ... good for people in a cult maybe ... turn the tables on that MOG ...
Oh my goodness--I was trying to COMFORT you that you were not possesed!! I know this disorder--I and my MOTHER have both had it. It CAN occur abruptly--
we went to a DOCTOR. If it happens again you can go to a Sleep Clinic--they can help you.
Satan is not going to defeat me--oh my goodness. I am a Christian and I believe in Jesus who will NOT share His temple with a demon.
...
Wordwolf-believe what you wish--demon possesion is very rare-it was NOT demons after me--I had a bout with this stuff-there are more forms than one. :)
Contrary to what we were taught in TWI, possession does not necessarily mean that a demon is "inhabiting" you. As I pointed out above, the phrase "possessed with a devil" in KJV is simply the word daimonizomai, which is where the word "demonized" comes from. It can mean "influenced" or "affected" by a demon as much as (or more than) "totally controlled." This sleep disorder could be affected by demons manipulating things that cause it, OR it could be caused by something psychological or physiological. I don't think there is a sharp dividing line between what is "physical" and what is "spiritual." The important thing is that God, through Christ, provides the solution, whether it be natural or supernatural.
Contrary to what we were taught in TWI, possession does not necessarily mean that a demon is "inhabiting" you. As I pointed out above, the phrase "possessed with a devil" in KJV is simply the word daimonizomai, which is where the word "demonized" comes from. It can mean "influenced" or "affected" by a demon as much as (or more than) "totally controlled." This sleep disorder could be affected by demons manipulating things that cause it, OR it could be caused by something psychological or physiological. I don't think there is a sharp dividing line between what is "physical" and what is "spiritual." The important thing is that God, through Christ, provides the solution, whether it be natural or supernatural.
Hi Mark,
YES! your last line is very nice. And I would just tell you that my tone is nice as well. :) Hard to get online. I will be very honest with you here. My concern is
that we not be fooled into thinking we are doing something in Jesus' name--with some great authority--when we may in fact just be waking up.
HIS NAME carries the authority--it is not to be bandied about and "used" especially by those who don't even believe He is God. Sorry, I cannot fall back into the thought that it just doesn't matter. It does, and it makes all the difference in the world when dealing with this stuff.
I know the account in the gospels of others casting out demons in His name. I also know the line--depart I never knew you.
If Johnny was possesed--than Johnny was "delivered" by something a "Twig" leader told him about a false "man" Jesus. It supports the garbage we learned in TWI about God.
So, although your last line was nice--and I am trying to be nice--the fact still remains--TWI gave us a false Jesus, another spirit, and a whole lotta of very nasty gnostic doctrine.
When you say God through Christ--I now hear a very different thing. So, if it was God through Christ it would have HAD to have been--God revealed in the person of Jesus--fully man and fully God. I doubt that is what was evoked--or what was told to be used.
I know--I will be so popular after this, but hey, it is what I know to be true.
I have read your stuff--gone to your site and I know you don't believe it. Besides--it is just a disorder and can be triggered by many things--I have stopped looking at demons and set my eyes on Jesus--not that I am unaware-I just see the devils wiles a bit differently now. Like right here--a false understanding of who Jesus is and by what authority we envoke His HOLY name. The rest of Christendom gets it--why was it so hard for us? But then again--we were in a cult and decieved by a very bad man and his minions. Worth taking a deeper gander at. We are so wedded to our doctrines--but they may not all be the best thing for us.
I send my BEST to you--no malice or ill will. I just can't sit and agree, and not be faithful to Christ. It makes me sad we were this fooled.
Rhino and Rascal--Ever have a flying dream? They are the best--lotta implicatations there, but I had one once--I have ALWAYS wanted another--SO FUN!!
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
6
7
6
6
Popular Days
Jul 28
16
Aug 5
15
Aug 4
13
Aug 1
8
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 6 posts
Mark Clarke 7 posts
newlife 6 posts
geisha779 6 posts
Popular Days
Jul 28 2008
16 posts
Aug 5 2008
15 posts
Aug 4 2008
13 posts
Aug 1 2008
8 posts
pond
not me but my husband at the time.
the thing is this really.
so here they are all powerful filled with the power of christ ABLE to do ALL things etc... to be feared and respected.
It is the devil who runs from the power of our Father not the other way around.
explain to me HOW if one has all this power from on high we are just to freak out and run away or throw away a person who is "possessed"? what is the big deal hmm?
to me it sounds like fear. I know when Im afraid I stand for the most I meet it head on I seek the fear and talk to it work through it and go for it , if it is a person I think is out to get me I do not throw them away I engage until the issue is resolved.
well if they have a gun or something I use wisdom of course, but my point is why is it if the "devil" is involved we are to be fearful?
didnt Jesus christ already win this fight?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sunesis
I remember Del Duncan speaking years ago. He said, why should any Christian be afraid of a devil spirit?? He said, they should be the ones quaking and shaking when they ran into us - Sons of God. I still agree with that today.
He talked about how he went to meet Anton Zander LaVey - the head of the Satanic church, and the guy literally cringed just being around Del and couldn't get rid of him fast enough. That's neither here nor there, but the point is, yes, Christ overcame for us. He has delivered us from the Adversary's kingdom and all of his little hosts here. Just as Michael said, the Lord rebuke you, we can do the same.
But, I have a feeling most of us, if we ever did run into a "real" devil spirit would faint. Actually, today, I think most of your real cases of possession, are in mental institutions, like the guy in the tombs. People can't deal with them and they are put away.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RainbowsGirl
In 1975 I took the "Renewed Mind" class for the first time! I went to the opening night class and I was excited! We were all pumped to learn as much as we could!
TWI was not as corrupted then or at least we didn't know about it in Wisconsin...and we had loving honest leadership J. Cl@y, Gilb~rt Pr~de and many more following them! This is not
to say that some did not become corrupted in later years We all genuinely loved and helped one another; we were the hippies and the flower children and their
subsequent "babes".... We were heavily affect by the 60's.... and baby boomer standards!
Now looking to find GOD's standards! Probably why I don't fit into this current pluralistic society of today with it's all encompassing and ever changing values!
values change ...GOD's standards never change! A value is not a standard! TWI leadership made huge errors in all areas, caused many much evil with their deceitful corruptions, but I
learned one of many very important things in those years I learn how to search GOD's word and learn HIS heart and be His for eternity!
It was a true desire and hunger to know GOD that kept me in TWI. I knew so many people who needed and wanted help; and I wanted to give and help! GOD has saved me so many
many times throughout my life. May more times than i am sure that I know of.
In those days my early day in TWI, it was considered semi-safe to hitch-hike....the 60' and 70's! It might help you to understand that back then I was a naive flower child... and absolute
trust and love was part of my make-up! I had a great deal of trouble believing that anyone could or would desire to be intentionally evil!
I had just read and studied the gospels and I wanted to understand them as much as I could to help people the way that Jesus Christ did! I was getting ready to take the "Advanced
Class" Little did I know that GOD was getting me ready to live, grow and learn so I could face all challenges to come!
One time when I was hitch-hiking is an example that conveys this time. I always witnessed to all my rides...so I was never scared...How could GOD allow anyone to hurt me...it has
always worked for me..It always will! Hey, You can be sure I did use the wisdom and knowledge of the word I had learned as well!
I always asked GOD what to do and whom to ride with! This time though as the driver drove passed my Road I became a little concerned; and as I was about to tell Him that; we were
immediately pulled over by detectives who in no uncertain terms informed me that this man I was riding with was their number one suspect in the serial murders in my area...and asked
me how I would like my next stop to be on a slab in the morgue. I was of course very thankful that GOD had them there to save me. I decided then to pay more attention to the news
even though it was a worldly thing and we had been encouraged to concentrate heavy if not solely on GOD and his word. As usual I knew that something had to be wrong with that
imbalanced instruction...It just didn't fit with other scriptures and when that happened I just found the balance and made no obvious issue of it....As I wasn't too into debating
issues...just looking for the Truth of GOD's word and how to love GOD to the best of my ability!
Now back to the Renewed Mind class; I just had to lay down some back ground...Seeing peoples hearts is a really a fiercely important issue to understanding anything written; and seeing
people's individual hearts means more to me, than I can convey alone here and now...I would always much rather be face to face or at least voice to voice!!!!!
On the next day I received a called from my Gramma...My Parents were tooooooo upset to have called....! My Brother Gary was dead! This was a horrible shock to me! My roommate
Vet@ Ca$$tile loving went home with me for the funeral! I was devastated and heart broken; so it meant everything to me that she was there with me! I cannot explain fully just how
incomprehensible Gary's loss was to me. Then to further find out that he had been murdered seemed to even more overwhelmed me; because no one in my family would have it
investigated. They would accept the corner's ruling that he had committed suicide, even knowing that he had not!!!!
His first job and first week as an iron worker; He rode to work with a friend of my older brother. He is the man whom I believe killed Gary. He was well known for his volatile fits of rage!
They had stopped at a bar to cash their checks, but couldn't...saw my older brother. Then went to another bar to cash them; where that man the driver got into a fight and broke some
guy's nose! Then they left to come home!
My brother was found with his head in a pool of blood three inches deep. At the hospital they cut off his clothes. The chalk pencil in his pocket had not been broken. There were no
bruises cuts or scrapes on His body! The coroner reported that He died of a force blow to the head, which caused his brain to shift immediately, herniate and burn out!
Yet the driver said he was upset and jumped out out of the car at 50 miles per hour! As so often it is, as here the evidents speaks loudly and clearly. Yet,the investigation was minimal at
best! The man whom I believe killed my brother will now await GOD's judgment! There are so many people that I would hate to be in their shoes. Tough job GOD has being the searcher
of all hearts and righteous judge of all!!!
When we got back Vet@ knew how despondent I was and let me to lay down till my make up class would begin! When she tried to wake me up I could hear her calling me and getting
other people to try to get me up. I could hear them all; But I could also hear another stronger more pervasive insistent voice telling me you don't have to get up....over and over again
drowning them all out! I thought that it was my own inner voice, the one that you talk things over with yourself with... or at least I do this. They went and got Gilb~rt Pr~de our branch
leader...He had a heart of gold and the wisdom of the word! Next thing I knew I was thrown or layed on the floor.
Rev Pr~de was over me commanding a devil spirit/spirits to come out of me! I could hear the end of it when I stopped listening to the pervasive voice telling me I did not have to get
up and heard GP's voice loudly! Then I woke up and he loving told me that I would have never woken up with out him casting it/them out! I for one was thankful!!! If You knew me you
would know that what people think, assess and judge randomly means very little to me, especially compared with what is true and right. I was treated with as much love as Jesus Christ
gave those He cast devil spirits out of! Everyones continued to love and help me heal from my brothers murder and reinforced ed in me the absolute power of GOD's LOVE!!!
It doesn't matter to me whether it was a devil spirit or not; nor does it matter whether I was possessed or not, nor whether some might have feared me or thought evil of me or less of me!
What does matter to me is the love, compassion and life lessens that I have received from GOD and my brothers and sisters. Thank YOU GOD and All!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Clarke
I wasn't called "possessed" but one leader said she recognized spiritual influence, when I was going through a bout of depression. This is actually more accurate, since the phrase "possessed with a devil" in KJV is the translation of one word in Greek: daimonizomai (from which other Christians outside TWI get the word "demonized"). It doesn't necessarily mean completely controlled or taken over, as we often used "possessed" to mean. It can mean strongly influenced or affected by demons too.
Also, I agree that not all cases of illness, physical or mental, are caused by a demon, though some are. The gospels make a distinction in a couple of places between those who were sick and those who were possessed, when they were brought to Jesus.
BTW, I noticed most of the posters are using the old TWI term "devil spirits." That whole thing W@lt3r C#mm!ns taught in the DWA class about not liking the word "demon" and preferring the term "devil spirits" was not really accurate. He said "demon" sounded too much like "cute little guys with pitchforks" or something like that, and that daimon was a Greek word, so we should "either speak English or speak Greek." But "demon" is a perfectly good English word, even though it was derived from the Greek word. And it's a better translation.
The KJV uses "devil" to translate daimon or daimonion a few times, and other times refers to "unclean spirits." (This is in addition to the places where the word daimonizomai is translated "possessed with a devil.") But it doesn't use the phrase "devil spirits" anywhere. And that's just KJV. Most of the more modern translations use the word "demon" for these spirit beings, and use "devil" to translate diabolos, which is THE devil, or Satan. This is more correct, since there is a difference between Satan and the demons.
Of course, it doesn't matter what you call them, but this is just another example of Way jargon separating us from other "normal" Christians.
Edited by Mark ClarkeLink to comment
Share on other sites
brideofjc
I see Twinky beat me to it....The Lord Jesus Christ bought me "lock, stock and barrel" so I guess HE is the owner of said property and therefore it is not an inaccurate definition to say that I AM POSSESSED!
PRAISE GOD, HALLELULAH!
Now, however, no one in TWI ever said it to my face....but they might have behind my back in all of those closed door meetings where only the upper echelon on the local level could attend. Hardee-har-har! Thank God, I was never invited to attend any of these.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I always wondered what the *bigwigs* would do if one served them deviled eggs as a dinner entre..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
frank123lol
Maybe they would blow it out thier noses.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Clarke
I remember quite a few Wayfers saying they were uncomfortable with devil's food cake. (Saying it, not eating it!)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
I did in fact have problems with devil spirits possessing my mind and body before and just after I got "in". I was tormented at night when in bed and feared the time of sleep when it was dark. I didn't "fear the darkness", but rather feared to sleep when it was dark. It would happen just after I would doze off, and I would become paralyzed with fear and could not scream out. All the while horrible faces would appear before me either in my mind or in a weird vision and tell me that I was now "the devil's property" and that my soul was lost to God and would forever burn in hell. The only thing that gave me any relief was praying to God within my mind when it happened, begging Him to have mercy on my useless soul, and as I prayed constantly until morning, I somehow gained some relief but would be exhausted and in a mass of sweat drenched and twisted sheets. But if I would stop praying my begging prayer and tried to sleep, the torments would begin again and the taunting would continue. It was after the exhausted night of terror that I could finally sleep when it was daylight in my room. That was, of course if I didn't have to go to work that following morning. These events definitely increased after I started going to twig.
I was too embarrassed to tell my twig leader about it at first, but as I began to learn in twig that I, as a Child of God had rights as one of His Children, that I felt that it would be okay to ask one of the WOWs about it, and what to do. And so, when I asked, the gal asked if I'd mind telling the twig leader, and I said that I had no problem with it. The TL then told me that I had every right to tell those lousy spirits to leave my head, my body and my bedroom and house in the name of Jesus Christ. That there was absolutely power over the devil and his fallen angels in the Name of Jesus Christ. And that instead of "begging God" in my manner of prayer, that I should claim God's promises that they showed me from the Bible. Claim those promises in the Name Above All Names. They showed me John 14:12 -"the works that I do ye shall do also"....they showed me how Jesus commanded the evil spirits to leave and how he didn't beat around the bush and how they obeyed his authority.....and they showed me that with Christ within me, I had that same right and authority. They said that they'd pray for me.
Sometime shortly after that, on a hot summer night, it happened again. I couldn't yell out. The horrible faces came again and taunted me. I couldn't move my body. But in my mind it was like; "Aha! I have the ace up my sleeve now! Ha"! So instead of begging God to help me, I prayed silently to God and asked Him to help me and that on "the count of three" I would sit bolt upright and rebuke those spirits in the name of Jesus Christ. I remembering counting; "One-two-three!" And with all the strength I could muster, I sat straight up in bed, and I remember this as clearly as if it were yesterday;
"In the name of Jesus Christ get out of here! I rebuke you spirits in the name of Jesus Christ my Lord who God raised from the dead! You have no power over me because I am a son of the Most High God! Get out and stay out!" And with that, there was a popping sound in my head and then: Instant peace. A peace like I had never known before. Tears streamed down my face as I knew that I never had to fear that torment from the devil ever again. I was so overjoyed it was incredible. And I remember speaking in tongues then and it just bubbled forth from me. I had tried it before with one of the WOWs who had tried to get me to "wait for the class", and I did it some at that time, but nothing like that moment when God delivered me from those evil spirits who had tormented me ever since I had seen the movie The Exorcist during my drug days. I also remember the joy of the realization that the Word of God was really REAL. That I would in fact spend eternity with my Big Brother JC and the rest of the whole Family of God. I remember giggling about it sitting in that bed, intermittently speaking in tongues and just talking to and thanking God for all that He had done for me after I had prayed for him to rescue me that night on that boat when I had fallen to my knees in prayer to Him to "send someone". And what was cool was that when I told the WOWs, they simply rejoiced with me and no one judged me at all for having "been possessed". They were like; "Don't even think about it. He can't touch you anymore". We all just rejoiced over the deliverance.
So yeah, I would say that I was at one time possessed, and am forever thankful to God for showing me how to forever overcome the power those demons held over me...
"We're brought back from the devil's power,
we're set apart by Christ,
and we're reconciling men to God
serving them the bread of Life......!"
Edited by Jonny LingoLink to comment
Share on other sites
rhino
Very interesting Jonny ... I had a college roommate .. a friend from high school, that went to see The Exorcist" and couldn't sleep with the lights out for a month or so.
Another interpretation may be that they were not spirits, but your own brain, with fear induced images from the movie. When you changed from fear to assertiveness ... your mind rejected the self produced images, and you felt you had control.
Of course I don't know ... but I just remember how amazed I was at the influence of that movie on my engineering student friend. But he wa in aeronautical engineering, so maybe he was just spacey ...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
finallyunderstand
I don't remember if anyone ever said I was posessed. But there were several times I was told I wasn't "controllong my mind" or I was "out of control" just because I didn't agree with someone or something. Like the time when they tried to get me to pray for the board of trustees to either die or change. I disagreed in a meeting about having 24 hours of prayer for this. I refused to pray for anyone to die. OMG. Was I ever roasted. They all took turns ripping me to shreds. I was only a kid too.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
finallyunderstand Posted Today, 09:06 PM
I don't remember if anyone ever said I was posessed. But there were several times I was told I wasn't "controllong my mind" or I was "out of control" just because I didn't agree with someone or something. Like the time when they tried to get me to pray for the board of trustees to either die or change. I disagreed in a meeting about having 24 hours of prayer for this. I refused to pray for anyone to die. OMG. Was I ever roasted. They all took turns ripping me to shreds. I was only a kid too.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Oh my gosh!
You were asked to pray for someone to DIE?
How sick is that?
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
finallyunderstand
Very sick, intensely sick. But I think they were more outraged that I dared to challenge it because they knew I was right. (They cancelled the 24 hours of prayer, blamed it on me). I couldn't sleep for two days because while they were ripping me to shreads, some of the things they said about me were true. But wth, I was a teenager. Who was perfect at that age anyway? But I was so overwhelmed by it. Now I would just say, so what I didn't clean my room last week? It's even weirder that you know about it and care.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
Did you ever look into this to see if it might be a more common occurrence--like a sleep disorder? It is in fact called sleep paralysis and often is accompanied by a sense or vision of evil snd fear. Lots of people have it. It is not that rare.
Devil Spirits??
Sleep paralysis is a common condition characterized by transient partial or total paralysis of skeletal muscles and areflexia that occurs upon awakening from sleep or less often while falling asleep. Stimuli such as touch or sound may terminate the episode, which usually has a duration of seconds to minutes. This condition may occur in normal subjects or be associated with narcolepsy, cataplexy, and hypnagogic hallucinations. The pathophysiology of this condition is closely related to the normal hypotonia that occur during REM sleep[1]. When considered to be a disease, isolated sleep paralysis is classified as MeSH D020188.[2]
Physiologically, it is closely related to the paralysis that occurs as a natural part of REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, which is known as REM atonia. Sleep paralysis occurs when the brain awakes from a REM state, but the bodily paralysis persists. This leaves the person fully conscious, but unable to move. In addition, the state may be accompanied by terrifying hallucinations (hypnopompic or hypnagogic) and an acute sense of danger [3]. Sleep paralysis is particularly frightening to the individual due to the vividness of such hallucinations[4]. The hallucinatory element to sleep paralysis makes it even more likely that someone will interpret the experience as a dream, since completely fanciful, or dream-like, objects may appear in the room alongside one's normal vision. Some scientists have proposed this condition as an explanation for alien abductions and ghostly encounters.[5] A study by Susan Blackmore and Marcus Cox of the University of the West of England suggested that alien abductions are related to sleep paralysis rather than to temporal lobe lability.[6]
The paralysis can last from several seconds to several minutes "after which the individual may experience panic symptoms and the realization that the distorted perceptions were false" [7]. When there is an absence of narcolepsy, sleep paralysis is referred to as isolated sleep paralysis (ISP) [8]. "ISP appears to be far more common and recurrent among African Americans than among White Americans or Nigerian Blacks" [9], and is often referred to within African American communities as "the witch riding your back" [
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
I know what I know. And no amount of psychiatric jargon will convince me otherwise. You may try to contain the spiritual world in a jar of psycho-babble, but you will fail miserably in trying to do so, and you will be defeated. Satan is real, and so are his fallen angels. Think what you want, but your thoughts will never change the Truth. And I do not care what you think...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Clarke
It could be that the psychological and physiological terminology are simply scientific ways of describing whatever was happening in your brain, regardless of whether it was caused by something "natural" or "supernatural." Jesus allowed for the possibility of both.
Matt 4:24 - And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
Notice it mentions sick people "with divers diseases and torments" AND "those which were possessed with devils [daimonizomai]." Then it mentions "those which were lunatick" AND "those that had the palsy." Jesus recognized that some of these things were caused by demons and some were not. But the bottom line was, he healed them all. It doesn't so much matter what it was, as much as the fact that Jesus healed you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
"Sleep Paralysis" may be a LOT more common than actual demonic activity on that level.
However, "Sleep Paralysis" doesn't show up abruptly, then leave abruptly and permanently
with a spiritual rebuke.
If Jonny's description is accurate (and I'm prepared to believe it is) this was no simple
"Sleep Paralysis."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
Oh my goodness--I was trying to COMFORT you that you were not possesed!! I know this disorder--I and my MOTHER have both had it. It CAN occur abruptly--
we went to a DOCTOR. If it happens again you can go to a Sleep Clinic--they can help you.
Satan is not going to defeat me--oh my goodness. I am a Christian and I believe in Jesus who will NOT share His temple with a demon.
And Johnny--people who believe they are abducted by aliens have a form of this. What is their excuse--they know what they know as well. With the same dogged
determination as you.
Did you ever wake yourself up from a dream? You can use the same techniques with this. That is why rebuking may have worked for you.
Once I learned what it was and how to awake from it--it abruptly went away--never had it since.
Let's be somewhat reasonable-instead of looking to Satan first. He is a bit more crafty Me Thinks!
Wordwolf-believe what you wish--demon possesion is very rare-it was NOT demons after me--I had a bout with this stuff-there are more forms than one. :)
Edited by geisha779Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
Just wanted to add--when someone offers you a more reasonable explanation for something. Is your first response (in the real world) that they will "Fail miserably"
and that they will "be defeated" ?
Just curious as this seems a rather EXTREME reaction to another explanation.
Did I ever say satan was not real? Or did I just offer up a reasoned alternative?
Did I try to contain the entire spiritual world in a jar of psycho-babble? Seems to me I recognized what you had--and tried to comfort you that you were not possesed.
Johnny--your reaction to an explanation seems to be a bit over-zealous. Hyperbole--we were MASTERS of it in TWI.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
I was thinking along the same lines. I used to have horrible night mares from the time I was a child. Yes, even the demons, swooping and diving around me, sometimes being stuck under water, a mean baby sitter.... In time, I learned to recognize a night mare when it was starting and wake myself up.
When I was in twi, I rebuked satan in my dream and could wake up. After I left twi...I`d recognize it was a dream and just wake myself up.
I was wondering if it could be just a recognition and triggering thing. I just know that in my dreams, the rebuking was as effective as pulling the corners of my eyes back to awaken myself.
My kids are vivid dreamers as well.
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
rhino
There is also "lucid dreaming" ...
I have done this ... haven't thought of it for a long time ... glad this came up. You recognize the dream on some level, but decide to stay in the dream, but you control it. So maybe you were falling, but you fly ... up up and away ... superman ... or up up and away, in my beautiful balloon ... whatever you want ... wahooo ... can't wait to go to sleep tonight ....
If you have recurrent dreams that perhaps relate to some real world event, it may be that control through a lucid dream may give you more control over the situation in the real world as well ... giving yourself emotional power over it, mostly I'm thinking. This can free you from submissive responses maybe ... good for people in a cult maybe ... turn the tables on that MOG ...
Edited by rhinoLink to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Clarke
Contrary to what we were taught in TWI, possession does not necessarily mean that a demon is "inhabiting" you. As I pointed out above, the phrase "possessed with a devil" in KJV is simply the word daimonizomai, which is where the word "demonized" comes from. It can mean "influenced" or "affected" by a demon as much as (or more than) "totally controlled." This sleep disorder could be affected by demons manipulating things that cause it, OR it could be caused by something psychological or physiological. I don't think there is a sharp dividing line between what is "physical" and what is "spiritual." The important thing is that God, through Christ, provides the solution, whether it be natural or supernatural.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
THAT was nicely said Mark :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
Hi Mark,
YES! your last line is very nice. And I would just tell you that my tone is nice as well. :) Hard to get online. I will be very honest with you here. My concern is
that we not be fooled into thinking we are doing something in Jesus' name--with some great authority--when we may in fact just be waking up.
HIS NAME carries the authority--it is not to be bandied about and "used" especially by those who don't even believe He is God. Sorry, I cannot fall back into the thought that it just doesn't matter. It does, and it makes all the difference in the world when dealing with this stuff.
I know the account in the gospels of others casting out demons in His name. I also know the line--depart I never knew you.
If Johnny was possesed--than Johnny was "delivered" by something a "Twig" leader told him about a false "man" Jesus. It supports the garbage we learned in TWI about God.
So, although your last line was nice--and I am trying to be nice--the fact still remains--TWI gave us a false Jesus, another spirit, and a whole lotta of very nasty gnostic doctrine.
When you say God through Christ--I now hear a very different thing. So, if it was God through Christ it would have HAD to have been--God revealed in the person of Jesus--fully man and fully God. I doubt that is what was evoked--or what was told to be used.
I know--I will be so popular after this, but hey, it is what I know to be true.
I have read your stuff--gone to your site and I know you don't believe it. Besides--it is just a disorder and can be triggered by many things--I have stopped looking at demons and set my eyes on Jesus--not that I am unaware-I just see the devils wiles a bit differently now. Like right here--a false understanding of who Jesus is and by what authority we envoke His HOLY name. The rest of Christendom gets it--why was it so hard for us? But then again--we were in a cult and decieved by a very bad man and his minions. Worth taking a deeper gander at. We are so wedded to our doctrines--but they may not all be the best thing for us.
I send my BEST to you--no malice or ill will. I just can't sit and agree, and not be faithful to Christ. It makes me sad we were this fooled.
Rhino and Rascal--Ever have a flying dream? They are the best--lotta implicatations there, but I had one once--I have ALWAYS wanted another--SO FUN!!
Edited by geisha779Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.