With all due respect to those who disagree with me, I for one don't buy the "Satanic blindness" explanation. We were fooled, blinded if you will, because we didn't know enough about the bible to be able to discern truth from error in the words of our teacher. We were dazzled by the arrogance disguised as confidence, because we didn't know any better. Once hooked, it became harder and harder to get out. No Satan needed to explain what happened to us.
I guess you could look at that like God is voting for you, Satan is voting against you, your vote is the tiebreaker. Even talking in terms of God / Satan, that doesn't remove personal accountability. That would actually be pretty much what you're getting at, talking about it in different terms.
WW: You found this word spelled "yahlal"... I do declare!
Any good Southerner knows he mispelled "y'all". Or he is dyslexic and meant to say: "All y'all".
Either way, down here in the 'ole South - we know... I say, we KNOW how to spot a Dam* Yang-Key - and if they mispellt "y'all" they ain't worth payin' attention to.
I am sorry if I came across as invalidating how you felt. I read back now and I was referring to another post and not keeping with what you wanted to talk about.
There are only 2 points that I defend as an ex-wafer. One is the life long friendships that I made in the way. I do have to say that I have a knitted commaraderie (sp?) that has not been broken for over 33 years. It is the true Love of God that has kept us together. It has nothing to do with TWI. We all just met there.
Do I believe that the way was a cult? It was more than that. It did not teach the Love of God for all and it did not teach compassion for all mankind. It amazes me still to this day after being out of the way for 22 years ( One of my dearest friends are a married couple who are 70 and 71 years old that have been out of the way since 1977 for reasons that would astound people. It has nothing to do with doctrinal or sexual abuse!!! They have for a while headed up a prayer ministry. They did not let twi stop them.)
that what I learned about Jesus Christ in the way denied Him His rightful significance and Headship.
I learned Christ in you the hope of glory, if the princes of this world had known they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory, and that I am an heir of God and a joint-heir of Jesus Christ. I learned about the Body of Christ. Learning that has changed my life to this day.
twi gave the Lord Jesus Christ less than a penny ante because THEIR egos were bigger and more important. Jesus Christ wasn't the MAN or Lord or Savior, they were. To me, the blindness at the time, (and believe you me, it took some time to be healed of it) even though I was taught all this new revelation about who I am in Christ, yet at the same time I was reminded every day, was how less than I am than my mog...my husband. Why, after learning this about who I am, did I not stand up and fight for myself?
And, whoa, did I struggle with verses in Ephesians for a very long time. Now, I know that genetalia (sp?) does not automatically decide anything. Obedience does. That has set me free.
Interesting thread, this. Can so relate. LCM told us that the Bible had nothing to say to "cop outs" - nothing but reproof, and that they needed to get back to the Household (read, TWI). And who wants EVEN MORE "reproof" after what had probably been said when they got kicked out? If ever I tried to read the Bible afterwards, I saw nothing but misery, at what an appalling specimen of a believer I was, how far short of the mark... you name it. You've probably been there too.
Now, my enthusiasm is back and I read in many different versions. NIV is just plain weird at times so don't like it. The Message is good for a really brisk look that is radically different. My preferred is a Holman Bible ("The Passion Bble") which reads well and appears accurate on translations of various words where it seems to matter. Can't stand KJV, the text of which my eyes just brush over. I had put this down to over-familiarity but who knows, maybe it is some "veil".
I do know that God sent a number of other Christians to hold forth a different version of Christian love to me but I would have nothing to do with them, because obviously they were doctrinally suspect (being trinitarians) and dngerous to me. That suspicion of other Christians is a part of the "Satanic blindness" also, or at least, one of his tricks. Divide and conquer. Keep sufferers in a state of misery and suspicious of others in the Body.
I have recently got to know some women, the daughters of an elderly friend, and the friend married into, and her daughters were raised in, the Plymouth Brethren. They also have quite significant problems even now, over 20 years later, with some aspects of relating to other Christians and some teachings. But they all have wonderful hearts to love and serve God and are all committed to "kingdom work" in the different churches they have now all chosen for themselves.
I only add this so that TWI ex-cultists know they aren't the only sufferers. These women also have their own "blindness" which they are overcoming. They respect the strong teaching of the Bible and the knowledge of the verses of the Bible, but not the practice or the emphases of their cult. Like us with TWI.
Gee golly, as I re-read, sowwree my humor in post #5 (I think it was) was not guffawed by all. Me thimks (not a typo) all religion is cultish, whatever the denominational title.
I did not have problems reading the Bible after TWI. Dot, I had no business posting on your topic thread.
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Mod Kirk
The portion of this discussion relating to the definition of a cult has been split off to a new topic.
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chockfull
I guess you could look at that like God is voting for you, Satan is voting against you, your vote is the tiebreaker. Even talking in terms of God / Satan, that doesn't remove personal accountability. That would actually be pretty much what you're getting at, talking about it in different terms.
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Dot Matrix
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WordWolf
I read his article.
A) He spends a lot of time pumping air into his POV, and denigrating the other POV.
If his apologia is a lot stronger than the other side, it should be evident, and require
little to "sell" it.
B) I find he spent time being angry over the singular occurrence of the term "halal",
and that he had no problem changing the word to "yahlal" without establishing this
really is supposed to be the same word except on his say-so.
Instead, he pronounced it didn't appear, and MUST BE another word.
He skipped over the Rabbinical and Targum references to it where nothing had to be
changed. (Wilson's Old Testament Word Studies mentioned them, but I'm not going
to keep digging from there.)
C) Despite his efforts to completely rewrite Ezekiel 28:14,
he had to skip over "you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire",
saying that was a reference-in effect, a parenthetical reference- to a cherub who
was next to the mortal man "the King of Tyrus".
So, everything except that applied ONLY to the mortal man, and ONLY that part
that couldn't be rewritten referred to the cherub.
I could swear vpw doesn't get a pass for saying anything in Scripture was a
"parenthetical reference" and suddenly stops addressing the being the preceeding
and following verses address.
Maybe "Installment II" had better material, but this was flawed. Considering how much
it was critical all of that had to AGREE for his POV to prevail, I find he failed to make his
case on the weight of evidence.
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cman
hey....
seems most folks want all this god/devil/hell/heaven to be something that is
how should i say it
somebody else
somewhere else
not really real
real but not present
probably good for many
the sleeping giant will wake up
but there is love there....
and we have it
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Too Gray Now
WW: You found this word spelled "yahlal"... I do declare!
Any good Southerner knows he mispelled "y'all". Or he is dyslexic and meant to say: "All y'all".
Either way, down here in the 'ole South - we know... I say, we KNOW how to spot a Dam* Yang-Key - and if they mispellt "y'all" they ain't worth payin' attention to.
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cman
hmm...
i thought it was 'ya'll'
i stand corrected
realizing that it is a combination of 'you' and 'all'
though pronounced 'yaul'
of course without the "'" it's 'yall'
which the dictionary will correct for you
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/yall
cuz yaul don't exist in my dictionary :lol:
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Dot Matrix
I found the article interesting, I do not agree with it all. Thought, as they brought up, Satanic blindness - it might be an addition here.
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cman
It is a help to see these different things Dot.
Glad you posted it.
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kimberly
Hey Dot,
I am sorry if I came across as invalidating how you felt. I read back now and I was referring to another post and not keeping with what you wanted to talk about.
There are only 2 points that I defend as an ex-wafer. One is the life long friendships that I made in the way. I do have to say that I have a knitted commaraderie (sp?) that has not been broken for over 33 years. It is the true Love of God that has kept us together. It has nothing to do with TWI. We all just met there.
Do I believe that the way was a cult? It was more than that. It did not teach the Love of God for all and it did not teach compassion for all mankind. It amazes me still to this day after being out of the way for 22 years ( One of my dearest friends are a married couple who are 70 and 71 years old that have been out of the way since 1977 for reasons that would astound people. It has nothing to do with doctrinal or sexual abuse!!! They have for a while headed up a prayer ministry. They did not let twi stop them.)
that what I learned about Jesus Christ in the way denied Him His rightful significance and Headship.
I learned Christ in you the hope of glory, if the princes of this world had known they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory, and that I am an heir of God and a joint-heir of Jesus Christ. I learned about the Body of Christ. Learning that has changed my life to this day.
twi gave the Lord Jesus Christ less than a penny ante because THEIR egos were bigger and more important. Jesus Christ wasn't the MAN or Lord or Savior, they were. To me, the blindness at the time, (and believe you me, it took some time to be healed of it) even though I was taught all this new revelation about who I am in Christ, yet at the same time I was reminded every day, was how less than I am than my mog...my husband. Why, after learning this about who I am, did I not stand up and fight for myself?
And, whoa, did I struggle with verses in Ephesians for a very long time. Now, I know that genetalia (sp?) does not automatically decide anything. Obedience does. That has set me free.
Blessings to you Dot Matrix.
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Twinky
Interesting thread, this. Can so relate. LCM told us that the Bible had nothing to say to "cop outs" - nothing but reproof, and that they needed to get back to the Household (read, TWI). And who wants EVEN MORE "reproof" after what had probably been said when they got kicked out? If ever I tried to read the Bible afterwards, I saw nothing but misery, at what an appalling specimen of a believer I was, how far short of the mark... you name it. You've probably been there too.
Now, my enthusiasm is back and I read in many different versions. NIV is just plain weird at times so don't like it. The Message is good for a really brisk look that is radically different. My preferred is a Holman Bible ("The Passion Bble") which reads well and appears accurate on translations of various words where it seems to matter. Can't stand KJV, the text of which my eyes just brush over. I had put this down to over-familiarity but who knows, maybe it is some "veil".
I do know that God sent a number of other Christians to hold forth a different version of Christian love to me but I would have nothing to do with them, because obviously they were doctrinally suspect (being trinitarians) and dngerous to me. That suspicion of other Christians is a part of the "Satanic blindness" also, or at least, one of his tricks. Divide and conquer. Keep sufferers in a state of misery and suspicious of others in the Body.
I have recently got to know some women, the daughters of an elderly friend, and the friend married into, and her daughters were raised in, the Plymouth Brethren. They also have quite significant problems even now, over 20 years later, with some aspects of relating to other Christians and some teachings. But they all have wonderful hearts to love and serve God and are all committed to "kingdom work" in the different churches they have now all chosen for themselves.
I only add this so that TWI ex-cultists know they aren't the only sufferers. These women also have their own "blindness" which they are overcoming. They respect the strong teaching of the Bible and the knowledge of the verses of the Bible, but not the practice or the emphases of their cult. Like us with TWI.
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cheranne
I just reread this and have to say I feel lots of us ex wayers had this struggle.and
while I was unlearning false teachings by twi I had a BIG struggle (huge)just tormenting
me,and what also helped me was bible studies by Precept Ministries.
Not just going to church but like pulling teeth.it was spiritual warfare,I had to look at
everything from every angle.
The veil came down when I surrendered and quit trying so hard to learn so much,and
accept the fact that God still loved me.
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kimberly
Gee golly, as I re-read, sowwree my humor in post #5 (I think it was) was not guffawed by all. Me thimks (not a typo) all religion is cultish, whatever the denominational title.
I did not have problems reading the Bible after TWI. Dot, I had no business posting on your topic thread.
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