I think it was from the Old Testament where the prophet, i.e. "Man of God" would wear a mantle, a strip of cloth about 6-10 feet long, representing his anointing as the prophet for Israel. During the ceremony, VP wore it around his neck and then whipped it off and wrapped it around LCM's neck. It hung down in front several feet on either side, kind of like those things some ministers in more traditional churches wear with their robes, though as I recall it was woven of wool more like a winter scarf. (Probably the wool came from one of King David's sheep or something).
It was all very ritualistic and totally made up by TWI.
Oh yea, and that Elijah threw his mantle over Elisha which meant he was called and ordained or something.
Please see the above Bible verses another poster so kindly provided.
:) I know the ceremony, I was there at the time. I hardly think the passing off of some of the duties of a website involves such a religious symbolism and maybe Dmiller was not implying such. Perhaps the athletic baton picture works better for me. I dunno even at that. I apologize for not being clear.
(since the edit button was still on this post, I removed the parts that are not applicable to mantle topic.)
I think it was from the Old Testament where the prophet, i.e. "Man of God" would wear a mantle, a strip of cloth about 6-10 feet long, representing his anointing as the prophet for Israel. During the ceremony, VP wore it around his neck and then whipped it off and wrapped it around LCM's neck. It hung down in front several feet on either side, kind of like those things some ministers in more traditional churches wear with their robes, though as I recall it was woven of wool more like a winter scarf. (Probably the wool came from one of King David's sheep or something).
It was all very ritualistic and totally made up by TWI.
Oh yea, and that Elijah threw his mantle over Elisha which meant he was called and ordained or something.
Please see the above Bible verses another poster so kindly provided.
WG
Totally
but, please note:
The Pallium. From the Catholic Encyclopedia
The modern pallium is a circular band about two inches wide, worn about the neck, breast, and shoulders, and having two pendants, one hanging down in front and one behind. The pendants are about two inches wide and twelve inches long, and are weighted with small pieces of lead covered with black silk. The remainder of the pallium is made of white wool, part of which is supplied by twolambs presented annually as a tax by the Lateran Canons Regular to the Chapter of St. John on the feast of St. Agnes, solemnly blessed on the high altar of that church after the pontifical Mass, and then offered to the pope. The ornamentation of the pallium consists of six small black crosses -- one each on the breast and back, one on each shoulder, and one on each pendant. The crosses on the breast, back, and left shoulder are provided with a loop for the reception of a gold pin set with a precious stone. The pallium is worn over the chasuble.
The use of the pallium is reserved to the pope and archbishops, but the latter may not use it until, on petition they have received the permission of the Holy See. Bishops sometimes receive the pallium as a mark of special favour, but it does not increase their powers or jurisdiction nor give them precedence. The pope may use the pallium at any time. Others, even archbishops, may use it only in their respective dioceses, and there only on the days and occasions designated in the "Pontificale" (Christmas, the Circumcision, and other specified great feasts; during the conferring of Holy orders, the consecration of abbots, etc.), unless its use is extended by a special privilege.
Pope Benedict XVI and his pallium (the five crosses represent the five wounds of Christ and the three pins represent the three nails -- in case somebody wants to start a "four crucified with..." discussion).
A mantle such as was described in 2 Kings 2, (known in Greek as a mandyas) is a kind of CLOAK. A liturgical mantle looks like this Greek Orthodox one:
What you describe is HILARIUS!! He gave LCM a "pallium" and called it a mantle??? (I heard the tape, but wasn't there when it happened, thank you very much)
The funny part is that considering how virulently anti-Catholic VPW was, did he intentionally use a uniquely Latin-Rite Catholic symbol or was it just out of sheer ignorance?
Sorry but got to add my 4 cents worth. First, proably Wierwille gave Martindale a stole, if anything. 2nd A mantle is a shelf over a fireplace . Mark, the closest thing to a cloak is the cope used in Catholic and Anglican/Episcopalian entrances for Matins or Vespers. Back to topic at hand. We now return you to our regular program already in progress :blink:
The whole mantel discussion is extraneous to the original question regarding the viability of GSC.
But, since we are exploring that avenue, has anyone else seen the ludicrous hypocrisy in all the pomp and circumstance assigned to the event by an organization that so vocally criticized the ritual ceremonies of other religious groups? Oh, yeah, if it's Catholicism involved, it's damnable but, since it's "the one true household", everything is just peachy. Riiiiight.
Hap, of course you deserve and should be given the respect of an answer to your comment/question.
shell, i have felt that way more than once here
--
also, i think it would be kind of understandable how people react to worship and adoration given our background -- even if the adoration, etc., is not "totally" a reality
Sorry but got to add my 4 cents worth. First, proably Wierwille gave Martindale a stole, if anything. 2nd A mantle is a shelf over a fireplace . Mark, the closest thing to a cloak is the cope used in Catholic and Anglican/Episcopalian entrances for Matins or Vespers. Back to topic at hand. We now return you to our regular program already in progress :blink:
Still , but...
That was my first thought as well...but
And, by the way, for those who need a program, this is a stole:
But when wool was mentioned, my mind immediately turned to palium. (no, not pablum, palium <_< )
The whole mantel discussion is extraneous to the original question regarding the viability of GSC.
But, since we are exploring that avenue, has anyone else seen the ludicrous hypocrisy in all the pomp and circumstance assigned to the event by an organization that so vocally criticized the ritual ceremonies of other religious groups? Oh, yeah, if it's Catholicism involved, it's damnable but, since it's "the one true household", everything is just peachy. Riiiiight.
Early in my TWI career I was somewhat put off by all the ceremony in a supposedly non-religious "ministry". Why on earth did they think that they needed clerical robes for the people who were ordained? And the academic robes.
I'm cracking up as I read this because shopping.com has a little ad at the bottom of the page with all sorts of lovely shawls, scarfs, headscarfs, etc.
Maybe LCM just needed something like this:
Considering how much he screamed, a bib, er... I mean, mantle.... (or maybe that's "mental") would have been more fitting....
What's A Mantle? Well, shucks darn. Every good Southern person knows that is over the fireplace. The mantle is the sacred place for the pictures of our babies, family and life.
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HAPe4me
we aren't allowed thoughts here? that is news to me.
mantle? what does that mean?
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JesseJoe
I don’t know, dmiller. That sounds WAY too WAY spiritual for me :)
Ex, been there done that. And survived.
HAP, think of VPW to LCM.
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dmiller
You're kidding, right???
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HAPe4me
I know what a mantle is I meant what do you mean by it here.
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dmiller
If you have to ask the question, you wouldn't understand the answer.
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HAPe4me
ok, then you wish me to imagine what you mean. I can do that.
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Shellon
Hap, of course you deserve and should be given the respect of an answer to your comment/question.
When Wierwille passed on the Presidency of the Ministry to Martindale, it was the "passing of the mantle"
Giving the responsibility, passing on the job.
Somwhere there are pics of the ceremony, with oil, a cloak/fabric giving, etc. But basically he gave him the job.
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dmiller
I would have thought that Hap read Jesse Joe's response earlier.
My mistake.
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HAPe4me
nah the imagery is not there for me
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JesseJoe
HAP, check out I Kings 19:19-21; then, II Kings 2:8-15
Personally, I think LCM did receive double of what VPW had, only it wasn’t the spirit of the living God.
Shelly
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Watered Garden
I think it was from the Old Testament where the prophet, i.e. "Man of God" would wear a mantle, a strip of cloth about 6-10 feet long, representing his anointing as the prophet for Israel. During the ceremony, VP wore it around his neck and then whipped it off and wrapped it around LCM's neck. It hung down in front several feet on either side, kind of like those things some ministers in more traditional churches wear with their robes, though as I recall it was woven of wool more like a winter scarf. (Probably the wool came from one of King David's sheep or something).
It was all very ritualistic and totally made up by TWI.
Oh yea, and that Elijah threw his mantle over Elisha which meant he was called and ordained or something.
Please see the above Bible verses another poster so kindly provided.
WG
Edited by Watered GardenLink to comment
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HAPe4me
:) I know the ceremony, I was there at the time. I hardly think the passing off of some of the duties of a website involves such a religious symbolism and maybe Dmiller was not implying such. Perhaps the athletic baton picture works better for me. I dunno even at that. I apologize for not being clear.
(since the edit button was still on this post, I removed the parts that are not applicable to mantle topic.)
~HAP
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markomalley
Totally
but, please note:
The Pallium. From the Catholic Encyclopedia
Pope Benedict XVI and his pallium (the five crosses represent the five wounds of Christ and the three pins represent the three nails -- in case somebody wants to start a "four crucified with..." discussion).
A mantle such as was described in 2 Kings 2, (known in Greek as a mandyas) is a kind of CLOAK. A liturgical mantle looks like this Greek Orthodox one:
What you describe is HILARIUS!! He gave LCM a "pallium" and called it a mantle??? (I heard the tape, but wasn't there when it happened, thank you very much)
The funny part is that considering how virulently anti-Catholic VPW was, did he intentionally use a uniquely Latin-Rite Catholic symbol or was it just out of sheer ignorance?
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
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waysider
The whole mantel discussion is extraneous to the original question regarding the viability of GSC.
But, since we are exploring that avenue, has anyone else seen the ludicrous hypocrisy in all the pomp and circumstance assigned to the event by an organization that so vocally criticized the ritual ceremonies of other religious groups? Oh, yeah, if it's Catholicism involved, it's damnable but, since it's "the one true household", everything is just peachy. Riiiiight.
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excathedra
shell, i have felt that way more than once here
--
also, i think it would be kind of understandable how people react to worship and adoration given our background -- even if the adoration, etc., is not "totally" a reality
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markomalley
Still
, but...
That was my first thought as well...but
And, by the way, for those who need a program, this is a stole:
But when wool was mentioned, my mind immediately turned to palium. (no, not pablum, palium <_< )
Yes...fascinating, isn't it?
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excathedra
a stole by any other name is still a stole ;)
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markomalley
Sounds like this thread is rapidly being "Stole"n
Sorry bout that
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OperaBuff
Mantle, pallium, stole. All are lovely garbs for men. I still prefer a tiara, with a little bling around the neck to balance the look.
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Oakspear
IIRC the "mantle" kind of looked like a shawl.
Early in my TWI career I was somewhat put off by all the ceremony in a supposedly non-religious "ministry". Why on earth did they think that they needed clerical robes for the people who were ordained? And the academic robes.
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ChasUFarley
I'm cracking up as I read this because shopping.com has a little ad at the bottom of the page with all sorts of lovely shawls, scarfs, headscarfs, etc.
Maybe LCM just needed something like this:
Considering how much he screamed, a bib, er... I mean, mantle.... (or maybe that's "mental") would have been more fitting....
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kimberly
What's A Mantle? Well, shucks darn. Every good Southern person knows that is over the fireplace. The mantle is the sacred place for the pictures of our babies, family and life.
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George Aar
I thought a mantel was that little fabric thingy in my oil lamp that always breaks in between power outages...
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