I apologize for being a stickler in advance: Big Head Loy , during kork week '85, approx. 3 months after vp's death, went into one of his classic meltdowns, raving about how some couple had gone to the Leonards instead of TWI-sourced and approved folks for counselling and healing. He then proceeded to go inter-galatically ballistic and claim, and I quote from memory, that these kork folks had ".... on ole loy's big, fat, shiny dome" (my re-working of loy's Exact wording). Face 6 shades of purplish-red, slobber soaking five rows back and volume cranked past 11 on the amps. A pretty site it weren't.....
suffice it to say, my opinion of the Leonards went up after that night, since I had been losing any shred of respect I formerly had for BHL for a number of years due to said ludicrous antics during his teachings, including a highly unnecessary amount of blue language....
Not to derail this thread but when did Dale Sides become Dr.
Dale Sides? Dale ministered mental healing to me a couple of weeks after we left twi I was so depressed I thought I was going nuts and I happened to be reading one of his books and saw his phone number and called him. He was so mad at what twi were doing to me and others I thought he was going to blow a gasket, but he ministered to me and I immediately got mentally healed. I later took one of his classes that he ran in my state, but he didn't go by DR.S. Did he get a doctorate?
I think I listened to his christian witchcraft tape til it wore out.
Anyways like I said I don't want derail this thread as it is very interesting. It sounds like vpw didn't have an original thought in his head and lcm had more than a few loose screws.
I beleive lcm was jealous of BG Leonard and thats why he blew a fuse over BG being at the rock, and also Loy was starting to REALLY get into homo bashing at that time.
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... Dovey
Thanks Outin88, So glad to here Dale is really a Dr. and not a fake like someone we know. I have quite a few of his tapes, but kind of lost track of him over the years. It doesn't seem like we been out of twi for 8 years already. I loose track of time. I really liked Dale and Vicki
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... Dovey
quote: My take on the matter is that part of the absent Christ teaching and VPW's sinful life, we got tricked out of seeing how the pioneer and finisher of our faith healed people. We just got so tricked into hearing the same message, over and over again of what we have in Christ; but no real Word centered clear cut teaching on how the Master healer, Jesus, did it and how we can follow in his footsteps and example. Any comments?
Lightside,
We know there were healings in twi, but VP continually said that the emphasis of the ministry was "the Word" and not "healings". Do you remember that? and him saying that if the healings never came to pass, "it's still the Word"? Also, I'm not sure that we "got tricked" because we were taught what we had in Christ. To each his own, I guess.
I asked Steve Sann about the invitation extended to BG Leonard he told me he invited Him at the request of Don Wierwille. Steve has taken the B G Leonard Class in Texas.Ex-10 you are right when you said that the craig monster was not happy, It was because of the interest in his classes. I think old craig saw the lines forming and thought he better nip this quick. As usual it was about losing money to B G Leonards ministry.
WhiteDove--I would say with bigHeadloy, it was much more about his EGO and not dough...vp was the savvy one about money, not some dumb jock oakie. My memories of bhl going ballistic as I related a few pages back were in context of poor bhl having somebody challenge his status as head spurt-chall honcho at the way...I doubt if he knew jack-.... about BG's ministry or classes...
I'm sure ego had a part in the mix but craig did know about the classes because Steve told him. He said something like Dr. is barely in the grave and people are already following after other ministries.
sure he knew of them but whitedove--he certainly does not nor did know about them. I was in the audience when bhl went off--let me assure you, it was all about bhl and his big fat ego...you give him far too much credit in terms of thinking through financial impact of BG and his class. Loy-boy put together his class for what reason, wd--that it would be a bigger money-maker than piffle --or loy's big fat ego?? I think we all know the answer on that...
I heard about a video done at HQ with Steve Sann, The Leonards and a lady from way publications.
Many of the Wierwille family took BG Leonard's class, including VPW. Near the end of the interview,Mrs. Wierwille came in and commented about how VPW and his family's knowledge about the Holy Spirit field was due to Leonard's class and she thanked them.
Many people were going up to the Leonards during this time that they were at HQ including Corps Grads.
Most were getting healed and big head was livid with jealousy. Leonard was rumored to be at HQ to straighten it out spiritually, and was going to teach that night.
Big head cancelled Leonard's teaching slot and chased the leonards off, commenting that if he taught, so many devil spirits would be released and they would burn a hole in the bigtop.
I have something VERY INTERESTING to add to this topic concerning B.G. Leonard's visit during the "VPW Memorial Rock" and this is totally first hand.
A friend of ours, Carolynn (Young) Walters, 8th Corps, was given the job of being Rev. Leonards "Corps Buddy" during that Corps Week/ROA. She had been close with Steve and Suzie Sann up in Montana, and Steve had asked her if she would be Rev. Leonard's buddy. My wife, being a good friend of Carolynn-they had been in Montana together-naturally wanted to spend time with Carolynn, and therefore was around B.G. a number of times due to this situation.
One day, while Carolynn was sitting at lunch with B.G. and my wife, I came by with my WOW burger or whatever, and had a seat with them. I was introduced to B.G. as Rev. "Lingo" which made me feel pretty important-what a MORON I was,hah!- and we slipped into some small talk. While we were lunching (and I got ketchup and mustard on my golf shorts-God I hated wearing those things!), Takit could be heard practicing up on the main stage, and they were really loud. All of a sudden, B.G. slams his old fist down on the table and says with tremendous anger:
"This ministry will not stand! It cannot stand! That music is the music of Baal! This ministry is going to fall!"
Since I had just been ordained at that Corps week (you know the one where God's blessing was so evident that Big Top almost blew down and killed us all), I figured that I needed to "handle the situation" and try to calm him down. I blathered on about the freedom we have in Christ and etc, and he just looked at me with a red face and said with great force;
"Sir! This ministry will fall down because of idolatry, you mark my words!"
And he went back to eating, and we all tried to recover from his "religious outburst with more "small talk".
Anyway, I thought of his words alot as the whole thing came a tumblin down...
'Maggie Muggins' was the creation of Fredericton-born teacher, writer and storyteller Mary Grannan. In the 1940s, Maggie's imaginary adventures were featured in the popular radio series 'Maggie Muggins.'"
(Copyright 2002 Canadian Broadcasting Co.)
I'm not sure how this lets VPW
off the hook or somehow clouds the issue of plagiarism which has very real definitions in academia and in publishing. The case for VPW's plagiarism hardly rests on his use of the names
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Linda Z
Outin88:
It's not a big deal, and I wasn't trying to make it one. honest. I was just pointing out a simple fact.
If my delivery of said fact sounded snippy in any way, I apologize. That wasn't my intent.
Linda
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Outin88!
Thanks Linda.
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alfakat
I apologize for being a stickler in advance: Big Head Loy , during kork week '85, approx. 3 months after vp's death, went into one of his classic meltdowns, raving about how some couple had gone to the Leonards instead of TWI-sourced and approved folks for counselling and healing. He then proceeded to go inter-galatically ballistic and claim, and I quote from memory, that these kork folks had ".... on ole loy's big, fat, shiny dome" (my re-working of loy's Exact wording). Face 6 shades of purplish-red, slobber soaking five rows back and volume cranked past 11 on the amps. A pretty site it weren't.....
suffice it to say, my opinion of the Leonards went up after that night, since I had been losing any shred of respect I formerly had for BHL for a number of years due to said ludicrous antics during his teachings, including a highly unnecessary amount of blue language....
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ItsStillTheWord
What a fellowship, what a joy divine...
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Steve!
HAAAAhahahahaahaahaaa! Too funny!
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ex10
Brother alfakat
Please check private topic...
;)-->
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alfakat
back atcha, sister friend....
;)-->
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wyteduv58
Not to derail this thread but when did Dale Sides become Dr.
Dale Sides? Dale ministered mental healing to me a couple of weeks after we left twi I was so depressed I thought I was going nuts and I happened to be reading one of his books and saw his phone number and called him. He was so mad at what twi were doing to me and others I thought he was going to blow a gasket, but he ministered to me and I immediately got mentally healed. I later took one of his classes that he ran in my state, but he didn't go by DR.S. Did he get a doctorate?
I think I listened to his christian witchcraft tape til it wore out.
Anyways like I said I don't want derail this thread as it is very interesting. It sounds like vpw didn't have an original thought in his head and lcm had more than a few loose screws.
I beleive lcm was jealous of BG Leonard and thats why he blew a fuse over BG being at the rock, and also Loy was starting to REALLY get into homo bashing at that time.
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... Dovey
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Outin88!
Hi wyteduv58, you asked "Not to derail this thread but when did Dale Sides become Dr."
Check out the link;
http://www.lmciweb.org/founder.cfm
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wyteduv58
Thanks Outin88, So glad to here Dale is really a Dr. and not a fake like someone we know. I have quite a few of his tapes, but kind of lost track of him over the years. It doesn't seem like we been out of twi for 8 years already. I loose track of time. I really liked Dale and Vicki
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... Dovey
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TheInvisibleDan
He's so clean.
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excathedra
who is so clean ?
?
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wyteduv58
okey dokey
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... Dovey
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WordWolf
This is a thread with some info on Leonard...
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IMF777
There was an interesting comparison done between BG Leonard's ministry and Wierwille's. Don't know if any of you have seen it:
http://www.waychrist.com/BG%20V.%20VPW.htm
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oldiesman
Lightside,
We know there were healings in twi, but VP continually said that the emphasis of the ministry was "the Word" and not "healings". Do you remember that? and him saying that if the healings never came to pass, "it's still the Word"? Also, I'm not sure that we "got tricked" because we were taught what we had in Christ. To each his own, I guess.
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Lightside
IMF777:
Lenords ministry:
Taught ministers who were sent home to their churches
Wierwilles ministry:
Built an empire of affiliate businesses/fellowships all paying affiliate fees (tithing) to HQ
Originally, Vp set up PFAL for ministers (pastors)
Then expanded it to anyone, maybe after getting a low response level from his peers.
Interesting that he did, at the start, follow
his teachers ways.
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WhiteDove
I asked Steve Sann about the invitation extended to BG Leonard he told me he invited Him at the request of Don Wierwille. Steve has taken the B G Leonard Class in Texas.Ex-10 you are right when you said that the craig monster was not happy, It was because of the interest in his classes. I think old craig saw the lines forming and thought he better nip this quick. As usual it was about losing money to B G Leonards ministry.
Without Coffee
I Would Have No Personality At All
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alfakat
WhiteDove--I would say with bigHeadloy, it was much more about his EGO and not dough...vp was the savvy one about money, not some dumb jock oakie. My memories of bhl going ballistic as I related a few pages back were in context of poor bhl having somebody challenge his status as head spurt-chall honcho at the way...I doubt if he knew jack-.... about BG's ministry or classes...
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WhiteDove
alfakat
I'm sure ego had a part in the mix but craig did know about the classes because Steve told him. He said something like Dr. is barely in the grave and people are already following after other ministries.
Without Coffee
I Would Have No Personality At All
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alfakat
sure he knew of them but whitedove--he certainly does not nor did know about them. I was in the audience when bhl went off--let me assure you, it was all about bhl and his big fat ego...you give him far too much credit in terms of thinking through financial impact of BG and his class. Loy-boy put together his class for what reason, wd--that it would be a bigger money-maker than piffle --or loy's big fat ego?? I think we all know the answer on that...
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IMF777
I heard about a video done at HQ with Steve Sann, The Leonards and a lady from way publications.
Many of the Wierwille family took BG Leonard's class, including VPW. Near the end of the interview,Mrs. Wierwille came in and commented about how VPW and his family's knowledge about the Holy Spirit field was due to Leonard's class and she thanked them.
Many people were going up to the Leonards during this time that they were at HQ including Corps Grads.
Most were getting healed and big head was livid with jealousy. Leonard was rumored to be at HQ to straighten it out spiritually, and was going to teach that night.
Big head cancelled Leonard's teaching slot and chased the leonards off, commenting that if he taught, so many devil spirits would be released and they would burn a hole in the bigtop.
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J0nny Ling0
I have something VERY INTERESTING to add to this topic concerning B.G. Leonard's visit during the "VPW Memorial Rock" and this is totally first hand.
A friend of ours, Carolynn (Young) Walters, 8th Corps, was given the job of being Rev. Leonards "Corps Buddy" during that Corps Week/ROA. She had been close with Steve and Suzie Sann up in Montana, and Steve had asked her if she would be Rev. Leonard's buddy. My wife, being a good friend of Carolynn-they had been in Montana together-naturally wanted to spend time with Carolynn, and therefore was around B.G. a number of times due to this situation.
One day, while Carolynn was sitting at lunch with B.G. and my wife, I came by with my WOW burger or whatever, and had a seat with them. I was introduced to B.G. as Rev. "Lingo" which made me feel pretty important-what a MORON I was,hah!- and we slipped into some small talk. While we were lunching (and I got ketchup and mustard on my golf shorts-God I hated wearing those things!), Takit could be heard practicing up on the main stage, and they were really loud. All of a sudden, B.G. slams his old fist down on the table and says with tremendous anger:
"This ministry will not stand! It cannot stand! That music is the music of Baal! This ministry is going to fall!"
Since I had just been ordained at that Corps week (you know the one where God's blessing was so evident that Big Top almost blew down and killed us all), I figured that I needed to "handle the situation" and try to calm him down. I blathered on about the freedom we have in Christ and etc, and he just looked at me with a red face and said with great force;
"Sir! This ministry will fall down because of idolatry, you mark my words!"
And he went back to eating, and we all tried to recover from his "religious outburst with more "small talk".
Anyway, I thought of his words alot as the whole thing came a tumblin down...
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diazbro
Linda Z said:
'Maggie Muggins' was the creation of Fredericton-born teacher, writer and storyteller Mary Grannan. In the 1940s, Maggie's imaginary adventures were featured in the popular radio series 'Maggie Muggins.'"
(Copyright 2002 Canadian Broadcasting Co.)
I'm not sure how this lets VPW
off the hook or somehow clouds the issue of plagiarism which has very real definitions in academia and in publishing. The case for VPW's plagiarism hardly rests on his use of the names
"snowball pete" or "maggie muggins".
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