I ALWAYS called myself a Christian as a Wayfer. It made more sense than "not-Trinitarian." VPW pointed out in PFAL that beleivers were called "that way" before they were called Christians, but I don't ever recall Christian being used as a derogatory term in TWI.
I got the distinct impression that TWI believers were considered the only "true" Christians. If one didn't call oneself a Christian in TWI, it was only because one didn't want to be aligned with false Christians, which was pretty much everyone else.
I ALWAYS called myself a Christian as a Wayfer. It made more sense than "not-Trinitarian." VPW pointed out in PFAL that beleivers were called "that way" before they were called Christians, but I don't ever recall Christian being used as a derogatory term in TWI.
George
some verses in acts, peter of Paul or someone talking to King Agrippa?? but the quote was "thou almost convincest me, thou christian" - this was usually quoted in a very snotty tone with a wrinkled nose.
I think raf did article on it . . .
Error 19
In PFAL: Wierwille writes that the term "Christian" is a mockery of the expression "Christ in you." Believers in the first century spoke frequently of having "Christ in" you that their critics came to call them "Christ in" and later Christian.
In truth: That might, maybe explain the origin of the term, if the first century believers spoke English. The believers in question spoke Greek.
Discussion: The word "Christian" is Christianos. It means follower of Christ. It does not mean "Christ in" any more than Italian means "Italy in," or Berean means "Berea in."
well that's all Raf had on it.
some verses in acts, peter of Paul or someone talking to King Agrippa?? but the quote was "thou almost convincest me, thou christian" - this was usually quoted in a very snotty tone with a wrinkled nose.
. . .
this was the verse used
Acts 2:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
Looking back for me the air of self superiority we had was sickening Bolshevik. BLECH!
But even today, some Christians who I've met may consider me to be non-christian because of certain beliefs I suppose.
I guess supieriority and condescension is bigger than a TWI problem, it is a human problem.
But we gotta talk about the stuff in our own lives like TWI I guess.
Yes, the superiority complex was pride, ego, and sickening. It was us deceiving ourselves, like I John talks about, saying we were walking in the light but dwelling in darkness. How many friendships, families, marriages were damaged by the pride and ego involved?
TWI "believers" want to convince themselves they are better than your average Christian. However, in reality, they are far below par for you average Christian, however you measure it.
I never recalled anyone in TWI downgrading the term Christian. We just never used the term alot, even though I considered myself to be one.
Our thing was Believer, Family and or Household.
If you were a believer you were part of the Family....Household on the other hand meant something totally different.
As far as I can see in the bible, there is no "household" You get born again and you are in the Family of God. They never said so called Christians weren't in the Family, to my knowledge, but you had to be in TWI and "walking the Word" to be in the household. And later I think it turned into, if you were Corps you were in the household.
This is what my memory recollects..It was a long time ago since I was in TWI.....I could be wrong....
I ALWAYS called myself a Christian as a Wayfer. It made more sense than "not-Trinitarian." VPW pointed out in PFAL that beleivers were called "that way" before they were called Christians, but I don't ever recall Christian being used as a derogatory term in TWI.
In my day we were called "believers" or maybe "born again believers"...I do remember Martindale once in the early 80's (maybe at an ROA??)ranting how much he hated the term Christian and didnt ever want to be associated with 'those people'. He went into the spiel that the term was invented by unbelievers with his usual yelling and veins popping rant.
The take I remember from Wierwille was somewhere in Living Victoriously where he said something to the effect of "Christians? There has never been any!!"
vpw was dead for most of my existance, it certainly could have evolved from "we're a better version than them" to "we're nothing like them"
And. . . they are surely not anything remotely close to Christians IMO.
I told you they claimed to be Christian Bolsh. . . I may have spoken too hastily. It was in response to your questioning the use of scripture in a thread about TWI. I used it to point out they actually do the opposite of what they claim to follow, but you have a valid point. . . do they claim to be Christian?
I always called myself a Christian in TWI. Just not a carnal Christian like those sneaking in the backdoor, but not sitting in the living room.
I didn't often hear the term used in a derogatory manner, but the "others" who claimed to be Christian. . . they were maligned. Looking back, I did hear a few rants about the term. . .
I think it was more because it was associated with the others who are called Christian. . .the dreaded and evil trinitarians. The one's it was acceptable to mock with abandon.
Whatever they call themselves. . . . . TWI does claim an odd form of sola scriptura as their way.
I told you they claimed to be Christian Bolsh. . . I may have spoken too hastily. . . .
If you said that I don't remember. I've heard the phrase "they [twi] claim to be christian" numerous times, and not just on this website, but at least one or two others. . . so I don't think you spoke too hastily.
In the mid or late nineties LCM declared the word Christian a derogatory term. We were 'believers.' He claimed the term Christian in the bible was what the unbelievers called the believers.
I do believe that a wafer family changed the name of a child--he had been named Christian.
But when I first got involved we called ourselves Christians--but a new, better type of Christian in our long and detailed explanations.
In a general sense.. or rather culturally.. I suppose I still consider myself "Christian"..
every half-decent thought the "representative" of *our* religion expressed as far as love of God (who I refuse to attempt to define anymore).. and neighbor.. who I can define.. I embrace.
79-83 we called ourselves and thought of ourselves as Christians and thought of ourselves as such, mostly claling ourselves believes.. But I would guess that changed in the mid to late 80's as LCM took over... NOT because the foundation wasn't there but because LCM really didn't get what he was doing and how VIC had set it up to catch the most flies.
I will say this though that there was a pervading attitude that all other Christians just did not come up to snuff. and we were superior. It was shortly before I left that that attitude was really brought out.. by our LC and his wife... and at a branch function where people were making fun of someone's girlfriend She had attended the meeting she was a Born again Christian (You old timers will know what I am talking about) She went to one of the newer(at that time) evangelistic churches, and was saying praise God and stuff like that. THey were carrying onlike she was stupid and filthy... NOt just them but the bellievers that were in their twig.
I stood up for her and got reprimanded... I found it appalling that our believers were making fun of her... It really made me angry. She was quite obviously a born again daughter of God... was planning on taking the class because she wanted to study God's word and they were making fun of her because she was saying praise God. And went to a Church.
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JeffSjo
Looking back for me the air of self superiority we had was sickening Bolshevik. BLECH!
But even today, some Christians who I've met may consider me to be non-christian because of certain beliefs I suppose.
I guess supieriority and condescension is bigger than a TWI problem, it is a human problem.
But we gotta talk about the stuff in our own lives like TWI I guess.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I ALWAYS called myself a Christian as a Wayfer. It made more sense than "not-Trinitarian." VPW pointed out in PFAL that beleivers were called "that way" before they were called Christians, but I don't ever recall Christian being used as a derogatory term in TWI.
George
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Tzaia
I got the distinct impression that TWI believers were considered the only "true" Christians. If one didn't call oneself a Christian in TWI, it was only because one didn't want to be aligned with false Christians, which was pretty much everyone else.
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Bolshevik
some verses in acts, peter of Paul or someone talking to King Agrippa?? but the quote was "thou almost convincest me, thou christian" - this was usually quoted in a very snotty tone with a wrinkled nose.
I think raf did article on it . . .
well that's all Raf had on it.
this was the verse used
Acts 2:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
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chockfull
Yes, the superiority complex was pride, ego, and sickening. It was us deceiving ourselves, like I John talks about, saying we were walking in the light but dwelling in darkness. How many friendships, families, marriages were damaged by the pride and ego involved?
TWI "believers" want to convince themselves they are better than your average Christian. However, in reality, they are far below par for you average Christian, however you measure it.
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newlife
I never recalled anyone in TWI downgrading the term Christian. We just never used the term alot, even though I considered myself to be one.
Our thing was Believer, Family and or Household.
If you were a believer you were part of the Family....Household on the other hand meant something totally different.
As far as I can see in the bible, there is no "household" You get born again and you are in the Family of God. They never said so called Christians weren't in the Family, to my knowledge, but you had to be in TWI and "walking the Word" to be in the household. And later I think it turned into, if you were Corps you were in the household.
This is what my memory recollects..It was a long time ago since I was in TWI.....I could be wrong....
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mstar1
In my day we were called "believers" or maybe "born again believers"...I do remember Martindale once in the early 80's (maybe at an ROA??)ranting how much he hated the term Christian and didnt ever want to be associated with 'those people'. He went into the spiel that the term was invented by unbelievers with his usual yelling and veins popping rant.
The take I remember from Wierwille was somewhere in Living Victoriously where he said something to the effect of "Christians? There has never been any!!"
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waysider
Man! It was all so long ago. I don't recall VPW ever saying anything that implied we weren't Christians. What I recall is that he
Remember in PFAL how he criticized "the average Christian" for carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders?
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Bolshevik
vpw was dead for most of my existance, it certainly could have evolved from "we're a better version than them" to "we're nothing like them"
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geisha779
And. . . they are surely not anything remotely close to Christians IMO.
I told you they claimed to be Christian Bolsh. . . I may have spoken too hastily. It was in response to your questioning the use of scripture in a thread about TWI. I used it to point out they actually do the opposite of what they claim to follow, but you have a valid point. . . do they claim to be Christian?
I always called myself a Christian in TWI. Just not a carnal Christian like those sneaking in the backdoor, but not sitting in the living room.
I didn't often hear the term used in a derogatory manner, but the "others" who claimed to be Christian. . . they were maligned. Looking back, I did hear a few rants about the term. . .
I think it was more because it was associated with the others who are called Christian. . .the dreaded and evil trinitarians. The one's it was acceptable to mock with abandon.
Whatever they call themselves. . . . . TWI does claim an odd form of sola scriptura as their way.
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Bolshevik
If you said that I don't remember. I've heard the phrase "they [twi] claim to be christian" numerous times, and not just on this website, but at least one or two others. . . so I don't think you spoke too hastily.
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Bramble
In the mid or late nineties LCM declared the word Christian a derogatory term. We were 'believers.' He claimed the term Christian in the bible was what the unbelievers called the believers.
I do believe that a wafer family changed the name of a child--he had been named Christian.
But when I first got involved we called ourselves Christians--but a new, better type of Christian in our long and detailed explanations.
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Ham
Yeah.. the explanations.
We don't believe in a trinity..
don't think the dead are conscious in any capacity..
don't think good works are necessary for a *christian* lifestyle..
but we agreed that sex generally wasn't ok outside of marriage.. except for exempt cases, like relieving herr manogawd and immediate subordinates..
generally.. were not any resemblance to Christianity in any cultural or moral sense..
what then WERE we..
followers.. of what?
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Ham
In a general sense.. or rather culturally.. I suppose I still consider myself "Christian"..
every half-decent thought the "representative" of *our* religion expressed as far as love of God (who I refuse to attempt to define anymore).. and neighbor.. who I can define.. I embrace.
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Ham
not that I am so important as to quote myself..
but wasn't the "prevailing" (pun intended) attitude.. all we owe *them*.. is "da VERD"?
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Tzaia
Pretty much. Arrogant, is it not?
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waterbuffalo
...oh, of course we claimed to be Christians, back in the day. And, we'd use that term if we had to to get someone to sign on the line for the class.
Right, we mostly referred to ourselves as believers. All of my close friends and I always considered ourselves Christians, though.
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leafytwiglet
79-83 we called ourselves and thought of ourselves as Christians and thought of ourselves as such, mostly claling ourselves believes.. But I would guess that changed in the mid to late 80's as LCM took over... NOT because the foundation wasn't there but because LCM really didn't get what he was doing and how VIC had set it up to catch the most flies.
I will say this though that there was a pervading attitude that all other Christians just did not come up to snuff. and we were superior. It was shortly before I left that that attitude was really brought out.. by our LC and his wife... and at a branch function where people were making fun of someone's girlfriend She had attended the meeting she was a Born again Christian (You old timers will know what I am talking about) She went to one of the newer(at that time) evangelistic churches, and was saying praise God and stuff like that. THey were carrying onlike she was stupid and filthy... NOt just them but the bellievers that were in their twig.
I stood up for her and got reprimanded... I found it appalling that our believers were making fun of her... It really made me angry. She was quite obviously a born again daughter of God... was planning on taking the class because she wanted to study God's word and they were making fun of her because she was saying praise God. And went to a Church.
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