Aren't there records in the Old Testament which show how God placed his spirit on people to speak with them and then removed it afterwards? Cyrus, all of Israel at one time, hell - he even made Baalam a Prophet and then when he refused to listen, spoke to him through an A__ (well-spellchecker -yanno?) uhm,... donkey-like critter. David prayed that God not take his holy spirit from him (after F'ing up).
The most clear account concerning "measured amounts" of spirit concerned Elijah and Elisha.
II Kings 2:9-14 (NASB)
9When they had crossed over, Elijah said to Elisha, "Ask what I shall do for you before I am taken from you." And Elisha said, "Please, let a double portion of your spirit be upon me."
10He said, "You have asked a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not, it shall not be so."
11As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.
12Elisha saw it and cried out, "My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!" And he saw Elijah no more Then he took hold of his own clothes and tore them in two pieces.
13He also took up the mantle of Elijah that fell from him and returned and stood by the bank of the Jordan.
14He took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him and struck the waters and said, "Where is the LORD, the God of Elijah?" And when he also had struck the waters, they were divided here and there; and Elisha crossed over.
The effectiveness of even small "amounts" of spirit can best be seen here:
Numbers 11: 16-17; 24-25. (NASB)
16The LORD therefore said to Moses, "Gather for Me seventy men from the elders of Israel, whom you know to be the elders of the people and their officers and bring them to the tent of meeting, and let them take their stand there with you.
17"Then I will come down and speak with you there, and I will take of the Spirit who is upon you, and will put Him upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with you, so that you will not bear it all alone.
24So Moses went out and told the people the words of the LORD. Also, he gathered seventy men of the elders of the people, and stationed them around the tent.
25Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him; and He took of the Spirit who was upon him and placed Him upon the seventy elders. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But they did not do it again.
Divided 71 ways, it was still effective. How many things do you know can work when decreased by a factor of 70?
My favorite note is a few verses later.
Numbers 11:29b
"Would that all the LORD'S people were prophets, that the LORD would put His Spirit upon them!"
To Moses that would have been awesome. Nowadays, we just take it in stride.
But yes, God's spirit would leave or depart from some Old Testament types, like in I Samuel 16:14.
So there's something to that,.. the individual having spirit to talk to God (and vice versa), but God can do work-arounds, the VOICE in the garden, the Burning Bush, etc...
I suspect God knows all the ways that he can talk to people. There might even be a few He hasn't used to date. One day we'll get a spiritual body like Christ and we can have a chat with God. He might be spirit - but I'll bet He has a pretty good sense of humor. hell, He puts up with us!
Just as information is "coded" in forms analogous to the 5 senses, I also think God can "code" it in any other form He sees fit,
and adjusts it to the expectations of the recipient. That's why some modern Christians get information "bursts" and "downloads".
For as many times as the "Great Principle" has been bantered around throughout the years, you would think some one might have at least demonstrated some scriptural basis for it.
The Great Principal - you, who have a job, have a cash flow, thus have cash. You can only give what you have, which is cash. Coincidentally, TWI accepts cash. It becomes manifested into a whole lot of ego and stupid rules as it is deposited.
I think God might actually be a motorcycle. Ya know? 'Cause Wierwille got a motorcycle as a gift and the giver has to be made of the same stuff that comprises the gift, right? Then, it came into manifestation as VP tooled up and down the roads of Cornfield, Ohio. Now, how much greater could a principle really get?
This is The Great Principle, as stated many times in the foundational, intermediate and advanced classes.:
"God's spirit teaches His creation in you which is now your spirit and your spirit teaches your mind and is manifested in the senses realm as you act."
Wierwille also stated that "God, being spirit, can only speak to that which he is, spirit."
So, if God, being spirit, can not talk to your mind, how is it that YOUR spirit, being spirit, can?
In essence, if The Great Principle is true, the only people that God has talked to down through the ages are either born-again Christians or people who have had the spirit placed on them conditionally on an ad hoc basis.
Sounds rather limiting, in my opinion.
My whole take on this is that it is a lot of mental modeling and an attempt to break down into little steps the interaction between an individual and God. Maybe this is because VPW had such a problem SIT for a while - the struggles of that are pretty well documented.
I agree that God is not limited like this.
There are also stupid corollary type rules like - "if God could speak directly to your mind, He'd have to allow Satan to speak directly to your mind. Then we'd all be lost". Which is complete BS. There is freedom of will involved. I believe God is big enough to know who is seeking His help and can speak to people who are open to be spoken to. Audibly, through thought interaction, through experiences that only people put together - He's the master of crafting such things.
There are contradictions in logic all throughout that Great Principle teaching. First, it only seems to be addressing revelation. What about "God works in you to will and do of His good pleasure?" and what they teach in the Adv. Class surrounding that verse as the "impartation" manifestations? So a woman touching the hem of Jesus garment and getting healed - in that there is zero interaction with spirit teaching Jesus mind in the initial healing. Sure - he "felt virtue going out of him". So there was a feeling of power being imparted only - no thought involved.
In my opinion God is not limited to stupid little rules like that in interacting with His kids. So you love Him and see where He wants to lead, see where you have goals and desires in life and talk it over. SIT is just part of the prayer stuff. The Great Principle? Try Jesus teaching - love God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength, and your neighbor as yourself. Then you don't have to spend all your time bound up in BS details of the inner functionings of how God works it all out and build up egotistical little mental models that are prone to error.
There are also stupid corollary type rules like - "if God could speak directly to your mind, He'd have to allow Satan to speak directly to your mind. Then we'd all be lost". Which is complete BS.
Yup!
I never understood those 'If God would do A...then the Devil could also do A' things.
If God is the supreme being, without peer, then why would his taking some action necessarily mean that the Devil, an inferior being, could do it too? It doesn't hold up to even the weakest scrutiny.
quote: "if God could speak directly to your mind, He'd have to allow Satan to speak directly to your mind. Then we'd all be lost".
I remember during my WOW training in '77 there was a skit presented to us in which a wow is witnessing to a man and when the man finds out it's TWI he goes "Oh, yes! The way. That's a cult! I heard about them on TV". Right then the devil says to the wow, "tell him that the Catholic church is a cult". So the wow does it and the man says, "Is that so? Wellll...*I* happen to be Catholic! Humph!" and he storms off. Then the devil says to the wow, "Well THAT was a dumb thing to say."
But later in the skit the wow listens to God and emerges victorious. But as far as the devil not being able to speak directly to your mind, didn't satan enter into Judas after the sop (John 13:27)? And didn't satan fill Ananias' heart to lie to the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3)? I just don't remember being taught that God COULDN'T speak directly to your mind. Must've screened it out.
quote: I just don't remember being taught that God COULDN'T speak directly to your mind. Must've screened it out.
It's in all three classes, in one form or another, but, it's given special attention in the Advanced Class.
In fact, on page 10, which is titled Keys To Walking In The Spirit, key #3 is "Speaking in tongues daily is prerequisite to revelation."
Why?
Because it attempts to give credence to page #15 of the Interpretation of Tongues and Prophesy Class, which depicts a pyramid structure of the 9 "manifestations" with "Kinds of Tongues" being depicted as the foundation upon which the rest of it is built.
In other words, no SIT = no WOK, WOW or DOS.
And, from page 252 of Receiving The Holy Spirit Today.
Question #6
Is it possible for one to receive the gift from the Holy Spirit into manifestation without speaking in a tongue?
Answer
No, it is not.
Now, remember, the revelation "manifestations" would be considered to be an example of "receiving the gift from the Holy Spirit into manifestation". Do the math.
BTW----This whole Question and Answer section was plagiarized, by Wierwille, from another source.
Yes, this is provable and has been documented on GSC.
This might explain why he refers to "speaking in tongues" as "speaking in a tongue" Even though the question was supposedly posed by another person, it could easily have been rephrased to give it a sense of congruence with the author's literary voice.... but it wasn't.
"Before we move into the depth of the new birth, we must realize some fundamental terms. When I speak of the "natural man", I speak of the man of body and soul, the man who is not born again of God's Spirit.This is the accurate Biblical usage of natural man. The five senses are the only avenues of learning that the natural man has to gain knowledge. Everything that ever comes to a natural man's mind must come by one or a combination of these five senses: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching."
How Great Thou Art –---Carl Gustaf Boberg as translated by Stuart H. Hine
(a paraphrasing of Psalm 8)
O Lord my God, When I in awesome wonder,
Consider all the worlds Thy Hands have made;
I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder,
Thy power throughout the universe displayed.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!
When through the woods, and forest glades I wander,
And hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees.
When I look down, from lofty mountain grandeur
And see the brook, and feel the gentle breeze.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!
And when I think, that God, His Son not sparing;
Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in;
That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!
When Christ shall come, with shout of acclamation,
And take me home, what joy shall fill my heart.
Then I shall bow, in humble adoration,
And then proclaim: "My God, how great Thou art!"
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!
How many times did we ever stop to think about how shallow and confining this makes "The Great Principle" seem to be? Here we see a man who can "hear" from God by merely observing His handiwork. No pyramids of manifestations to build, no mandatory, daily rituals to be observed. Like a child who opens his eyes wide to the world about him and takes it all in without a thought of putting it into words.
I've had one "leader" after another explain how he thought I was walking by da spirit or something..
somehow, at the turn of the moment, I would (coincidentally?) be at the right time, at the right place..
it continues even to today..
what is it that I am experiencing?
the last time.. I desperately was trying to make it to Mt. Pleasant.. an hour and a half before I was supposed to be there.. all I know is I'm supposed to show up very early for some reason..
and I show up. So the "boss" looks at me.. and says.."I'm SOOOOOO glad you are here.. I'm supposed to be somewhere else. Here are the papers, you just arrange them in alphabetical order, and wait for the exams to come to you.."
there is no bragging here. christ. are we supposed to really BE what we are supposed to be, or not..
this forum is anonymous enough that I can't claim any glory or such ...., thank god..
anybody have any similar experience? I would seriously like to know..
how can I show up at the right place, at the right time..
so.. da *boss* retires this year. If I ever have the chance, I will discretely ask the question.. "did you take a load of acid in the sixties/seventies.."
It would partially explain the seemingly repeated connection..
I've had one "leader" after another explain how he thought I was walking by da spirit or something..
somehow, at the turn of the moment, I would (coincidentally?) be at the right time, at the right place..
it continues even to today..
what is it that I am experiencing?
the last time.. I desperately was trying to make it to Mt. Pleasant.. an hour and a half before I was supposed to be there.. all I know is I'm supposed to show up very early for some reason..
and I show up. So the "boss" looks at me.. and says.."I'm SOOOOOO glad you are here.. I'm supposed to be somewhere else. Here are the papers, you just arrange them in alphabetical order, and wait for the exams to come to you.."
there is no bragging here. christ. are we supposed to really BE what we are supposed to be, or not..
this forum is anonymous enough that I can't claim any glory or such ...., thank god..
anybody have any similar experience? I would seriously like to know..
how can I show up at the right place, at the right time..
so.. da *boss* retires this year. If I ever have the chance, I will discretely ask the question.. "did you take a load of acid in the sixties/seventies.."
It would partially explain the seemingly repeated connection..
Thanks for telling that inspiring story. I don't remember an identical, but I can remember things of similar importance to me, often when I'm outside and unwound (go this way, ask them), but regularly it's when I'm frazzled and rushing that I'm helped hugely (check that work once more).
Edited to add: No, orders make me get stubborn, it's more of a "let's for fun do this" or "wouldn't it be a good idea to do this."
Edited to add: No, orders make me get stubborn, it's more of a "let's for fun do this" or "wouldn't it be a good idea to do this."
not that any of us are or are not Hindu, but this reminded me of Lila
Within non-dualism, Lila is a way of describing all reality, including the cosmos, as the outcome of creative play by the divine absolute ...
as if in the end of all our search and struggle, if we are fortunate enough to find such freedom, we find that we are free to serve God and God's universe by way of playing.
I've had a number of instances. I ministered to a teenage black girl who had seriously burned herself that morning with a curling iron. I only mentioned that she was black because of the gravity of the scar she would have had. I told her to keep it iced off and on during the morning...and by noontime there was no mark and by about 1:30 there was no pain. She absolutely knew where it came from....not me, for sure....except I did the prayin'.
Another time, with assistance of one of his good friends encouraging him, I also healed a man whose left arm was idle and totally useless due to a stroke (don't ask me the particulars of what I knew when or how). He just needed to build up his muscle strength afterwoods.
God does a steady stream of little private things for me often. I don't talk about them often since the folks I spend most of my time with are dead set against God because of actions of that ministry. Today I firmed up a phenomenal deal with a small excercise studio here to work as private trainers. I have some serious conditions but I need to lose weight first. This woman's mother has at least one of the ones I'm struck with, so she will lower the price and learn on me to help her mother. Do I caare??? Nope....I believe God brought us together so that we can help her mother but also I think we can and will become friends and I could use one or two of those. Winter is pretty isolating in NJ.
BUT if you look around you'll find a thread about the July 1998 Advanced Class. My son went directly face to face to stand up to lcm and not only lived to survive it, in spite of a rifle on lcm's desk and a pistol in somebody else's jacket. When he got home....he spent several days calling everyone he could remember that he knew to tell them the score about how his then wife had been selected, taught and "forced" to submit to lcm....not once....but many times....and ;how much she actually enjoyed it....and the Place she thought she'd earned.
My son has only a GED - - no college...he was in the first Way Deciple group. God is blessing him because of what he did then, and the way he lifes his life now. He's always loved cars so he has worked for several luxury car dealers here in capacities that blow my mind. He has a remarkable gift dealing with people and working with computers and auto parts. He has never stolen a nut and bolt and believe me how rare that is. "Shrinkage" as they call it swallows a pretty good % of most auto parts budgets. His are always on the money...never even a nickel off one way or another after an audit.
Therefore, God has gotten him the best jobs working for the best dealers. Not the best in terms of luxury....but in terms of personality and working arrangementl. He gets a wonderful % of the base (they all work that way...very modest salary and a very small % of the base. But his base is always so high because nothing is stolen, his workers work so well for him because he sticks up for them when they've earned it.....and even if he's not looking for another job, head hunters call him once or twice a week now that the biggest part of the crisis seems to have passed.
He's like Job and how God restored to Job all he was robbed of. He had much lower paying jobs in the same industry before he went in the Corps. His new wife is such a delight....I can't begin to explain how she truly loves him, and he lives in a house that he could broker down to his financial reaches because of his excellent credit. It started out at 850,000 in a posh section of New York State.
Maybe other people don't want to discuss so much of their private lives, but I'm getting older and older and I want to make sure everything I know is really passed on....so I'm speaking out now. Don't judge others if they don't do the same as I did...their circumstances are quite different and we should respect them.
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Gen-2
I'll go this far. That is to say ~ If God wants to talk to you, He can, He will. I don't really care how that happens, because it doesn't matter to me, just that it does.
Broken Arrow
Well now Gen, that's clear thinking which has no place here so stop it! This, imo, was one of the hallmarks of TWI. They would take a subject that basically was of no consequence like this one, or "
waysider
It's been rumored that Jimmy Hoffa is "in concretion". Does that mean he's a spirit?
WordWolf
The most clear account concerning "measured amounts" of spirit concerned Elijah and Elisha.
II Kings 2:9-14 (NASB)
9When they had crossed over, Elijah said to Elisha, "Ask what I shall do for you before I am taken from you." And Elisha said, "Please, let a double portion of your spirit be upon me."
10He said, "You have asked a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not, it shall not be so."
11As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.
12Elisha saw it and cried out, "My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!" And he saw Elijah no more Then he took hold of his own clothes and tore them in two pieces.
13He also took up the mantle of Elijah that fell from him and returned and stood by the bank of the Jordan.
14He took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him and struck the waters and said, "Where is the LORD, the God of Elijah?" And when he also had struck the waters, they were divided here and there; and Elisha crossed over.
The effectiveness of even small "amounts" of spirit can best be seen here:
Numbers 11: 16-17; 24-25. (NASB)
16The LORD therefore said to Moses, "Gather for Me seventy men from the elders of Israel, whom you know to be the elders of the people and their officers and bring them to the tent of meeting, and let them take their stand there with you.
17"Then I will come down and speak with you there, and I will take of the Spirit who is upon you, and will put Him upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with you, so that you will not bear it all alone.
24So Moses went out and told the people the words of the LORD. Also, he gathered seventy men of the elders of the people, and stationed them around the tent.
25Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him; and He took of the Spirit who was upon him and placed Him upon the seventy elders. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But they did not do it again.
Divided 71 ways, it was still effective. How many things do you know can work when decreased by a factor of 70?
My favorite note is a few verses later.
Numbers 11:29b
"Would that all the LORD'S people were prophets, that the LORD would put His Spirit upon them!"
To Moses that would have been awesome. Nowadays, we just take it in stride.
But yes, God's spirit would leave or depart from some Old Testament types, like in I Samuel 16:14.
Just as information is "coded" in forms analogous to the 5 senses, I also think God can "code" it in any other form He sees fit,
and adjusts it to the expectations of the recipient. That's why some modern Christians get information "bursts" and "downloads".
(snip)
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waysider
For as many times as the "Great Principle" has been bantered around throughout the years, you would think some one might have at least demonstrated some scriptural basis for it.
I'm just sayin'
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chockfull
The Great Principal - you, who have a job, have a cash flow, thus have cash. You can only give what you have, which is cash. Coincidentally, TWI accepts cash. It becomes manifested into a whole lot of ego and stupid rules as it is deposited.
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waysider
I think God might actually be a motorcycle. Ya know? 'Cause Wierwille got a motorcycle as a gift and the giver has to be made of the same stuff that comprises the gift, right? Then, it came into manifestation as VP tooled up and down the roads of Cornfield, Ohio. Now, how much greater could a principle really get?
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chockfull
My whole take on this is that it is a lot of mental modeling and an attempt to break down into little steps the interaction between an individual and God. Maybe this is because VPW had such a problem SIT for a while - the struggles of that are pretty well documented.
I agree that God is not limited like this.
There are also stupid corollary type rules like - "if God could speak directly to your mind, He'd have to allow Satan to speak directly to your mind. Then we'd all be lost". Which is complete BS. There is freedom of will involved. I believe God is big enough to know who is seeking His help and can speak to people who are open to be spoken to. Audibly, through thought interaction, through experiences that only people put together - He's the master of crafting such things.
There are contradictions in logic all throughout that Great Principle teaching. First, it only seems to be addressing revelation. What about "God works in you to will and do of His good pleasure?" and what they teach in the Adv. Class surrounding that verse as the "impartation" manifestations? So a woman touching the hem of Jesus garment and getting healed - in that there is zero interaction with spirit teaching Jesus mind in the initial healing. Sure - he "felt virtue going out of him". So there was a feeling of power being imparted only - no thought involved.
In my opinion God is not limited to stupid little rules like that in interacting with His kids. So you love Him and see where He wants to lead, see where you have goals and desires in life and talk it over. SIT is just part of the prayer stuff. The Great Principle? Try Jesus teaching - love God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength, and your neighbor as yourself. Then you don't have to spend all your time bound up in BS details of the inner functionings of how God works it all out and build up egotistical little mental models that are prone to error.
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waysider
Kewl post!
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Oakspear
I never understood those 'If God would do A...then the Devil could also do A' things.
If God is the supreme being, without peer, then why would his taking some action necessarily mean that the Devil, an inferior being, could do it too? It doesn't hold up to even the weakest scrutiny.
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waysider
Simple.
It opens the door for all the "counterfeit" analogy nonsense.
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johniam
quote: "if God could speak directly to your mind, He'd have to allow Satan to speak directly to your mind. Then we'd all be lost".
I remember during my WOW training in '77 there was a skit presented to us in which a wow is witnessing to a man and when the man finds out it's TWI he goes "Oh, yes! The way. That's a cult! I heard about them on TV". Right then the devil says to the wow, "tell him that the Catholic church is a cult". So the wow does it and the man says, "Is that so? Wellll...*I* happen to be Catholic! Humph!" and he storms off. Then the devil says to the wow, "Well THAT was a dumb thing to say."
But later in the skit the wow listens to God and emerges victorious. But as far as the devil not being able to speak directly to your mind, didn't satan enter into Judas after the sop (John 13:27)? And didn't satan fill Ananias' heart to lie to the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3)? I just don't remember being taught that God COULDN'T speak directly to your mind. Must've screened it out.
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Gen-2
Another way to see this is - If God doesn't talk to you - the great principle becomes the irrelavent principle.
...and if He does, be careful who you tell that to... ;)
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waysider
It's in all three classes, in one form or another, but, it's given special attention in the Advanced Class.
In fact, on page 10, which is titled Keys To Walking In The Spirit, key #3 is "Speaking in tongues daily is prerequisite to revelation."
Why?
Because it attempts to give credence to page #15 of the Interpretation of Tongues and Prophesy Class, which depicts a pyramid structure of the 9 "manifestations" with "Kinds of Tongues" being depicted as the foundation upon which the rest of it is built.
In other words, no SIT = no WOK, WOW or DOS.
And, from page 252 of Receiving The Holy Spirit Today.
Question #6
Is it possible for one to receive the gift from the Holy Spirit into manifestation without speaking in a tongue?
Answer
No, it is not.
Now, remember, the revelation "manifestations" would be considered to be an example of "receiving the gift from the Holy Spirit into manifestation". Do the math.
BTW----This whole Question and Answer section was plagiarized, by Wierwille, from another source.
Yes, this is provable and has been documented on GSC.
This might explain why he refers to "speaking in tongues" as "speaking in a tongue" Even though the question was supposedly posed by another person, it could easily have been rephrased to give it a sense of congruence with the author's literary voice.... but it wasn't.
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waysider
Here is something from the PFAL book.
Pgs.229 & 230
"Before we move into the depth of the new birth, we must realize some fundamental terms. When I speak of the "natural man", I speak of the man of body and soul, the man who is not born again of God's Spirit.This is the accurate Biblical usage of natural man. The five senses are the only avenues of learning that the natural man has to gain knowledge. Everything that ever comes to a natural man's mind must come by one or a combination of these five senses: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching."
(bold font added by poster)
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waysider
We sang this hymn frequently:
How Great Thou Art –---Carl Gustaf Boberg as translated by Stuart H. Hine
(a paraphrasing of Psalm 8)
O Lord my God, When I in awesome wonder,
Consider all the worlds Thy Hands have made;
I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder,
Thy power throughout the universe displayed.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!
When through the woods, and forest glades I wander,
And hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees.
When I look down, from lofty mountain grandeur
And see the brook, and feel the gentle breeze.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!
And when I think, that God, His Son not sparing;
Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in;
That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!
When Christ shall come, with shout of acclamation,
And take me home, what joy shall fill my heart.
Then I shall bow, in humble adoration,
And then proclaim: "My God, how great Thou art!"
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!
How many times did we ever stop to think about how shallow and confining this makes "The Great Principle" seem to be? Here we see a man who can "hear" from God by merely observing His handiwork. No pyramids of manifestations to build, no mandatory, daily rituals to be observed. Like a child who opens his eyes wide to the world about him and takes it all in without a thought of putting it into words.
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Ham
I've had one "leader" after another explain how he thought I was walking by da spirit or something..
somehow, at the turn of the moment, I would (coincidentally?) be at the right time, at the right place..
it continues even to today..
what is it that I am experiencing?
the last time.. I desperately was trying to make it to Mt. Pleasant.. an hour and a half before I was supposed to be there.. all I know is I'm supposed to show up very early for some reason..
and I show up. So the "boss" looks at me.. and says.."I'm SOOOOOO glad you are here.. I'm supposed to be somewhere else. Here are the papers, you just arrange them in alphabetical order, and wait for the exams to come to you.."
there is no bragging here. christ. are we supposed to really BE what we are supposed to be, or not..
this forum is anonymous enough that I can't claim any glory or such ...., thank god..
anybody have any similar experience? I would seriously like to know..
how can I show up at the right place, at the right time..
so.. da *boss* retires this year. If I ever have the chance, I will discretely ask the question.. "did you take a load of acid in the sixties/seventies.."
It would partially explain the seemingly repeated connection..
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waysider
somehow, at the turn of the moment, I would (coincidentally?) be at the right time, at the right place..
You mean like THIS?
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Ham
too many delays with youtube and all.. I waited fifteen minutes for the video..
must just be the slowness of DSL..
the secrets of da universe need not such delays..
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waysider
Yeah, "delays".
Like Moses when God tried to talk to him via the burning bush.
Moses said, "Hold on, Daddy-O, I gotta take a crash course on landscaping."
So while Moses was finishing his mid-terms, God added 2 more commandments to the original ten.
Moses never even noticed so they were lost.
One of them had something to do with midgets and bar-stools but we'll never know exactly what.
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Ham
Midgets and Bar Stools..
I'm dying here..
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cara
Thanks for telling that inspiring story. I don't remember an identical, but I can remember things of similar importance to me, often when I'm outside and unwound (go this way, ask them), but regularly it's when I'm frazzled and rushing that I'm helped hugely (check that work once more).
Edited to add: No, orders make me get stubborn, it's more of a "let's for fun do this" or "wouldn't it be a good idea to do this."
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sirguessalot
not that any of us are or are not Hindu, but this reminded me of Lila
as if in the end of all our search and struggle, if we are fortunate enough to find such freedom, we find that we are free to serve God and God's universe by way of playing.
like "at play in the fields of the Lord"
can we not even play at "going to hell?"
:B)
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krys
Yes Cara, I see where you're going.
I've had a number of instances. I ministered to a teenage black girl who had seriously burned herself that morning with a curling iron. I only mentioned that she was black because of the gravity of the scar she would have had. I told her to keep it iced off and on during the morning...and by noontime there was no mark and by about 1:30 there was no pain. She absolutely knew where it came from....not me, for sure....except I did the prayin'.
Another time, with assistance of one of his good friends encouraging him, I also healed a man whose left arm was idle and totally useless due to a stroke (don't ask me the particulars of what I knew when or how). He just needed to build up his muscle strength afterwoods.
God does a steady stream of little private things for me often. I don't talk about them often since the folks I spend most of my time with are dead set against God because of actions of that ministry. Today I firmed up a phenomenal deal with a small excercise studio here to work as private trainers. I have some serious conditions but I need to lose weight first. This woman's mother has at least one of the ones I'm struck with, so she will lower the price and learn on me to help her mother. Do I caare??? Nope....I believe God brought us together so that we can help her mother but also I think we can and will become friends and I could use one or two of those. Winter is pretty isolating in NJ.
BUT if you look around you'll find a thread about the July 1998 Advanced Class. My son went directly face to face to stand up to lcm and not only lived to survive it, in spite of a rifle on lcm's desk and a pistol in somebody else's jacket. When he got home....he spent several days calling everyone he could remember that he knew to tell them the score about how his then wife had been selected, taught and "forced" to submit to lcm....not once....but many times....and ;how much she actually enjoyed it....and the Place she thought she'd earned.
My son has only a GED - - no college...he was in the first Way Deciple group. God is blessing him because of what he did then, and the way he lifes his life now. He's always loved cars so he has worked for several luxury car dealers here in capacities that blow my mind. He has a remarkable gift dealing with people and working with computers and auto parts. He has never stolen a nut and bolt and believe me how rare that is. "Shrinkage" as they call it swallows a pretty good % of most auto parts budgets. His are always on the money...never even a nickel off one way or another after an audit.
Therefore, God has gotten him the best jobs working for the best dealers. Not the best in terms of luxury....but in terms of personality and working arrangementl. He gets a wonderful % of the base (they all work that way...very modest salary and a very small % of the base. But his base is always so high because nothing is stolen, his workers work so well for him because he sticks up for them when they've earned it.....and even if he's not looking for another job, head hunters call him once or twice a week now that the biggest part of the crisis seems to have passed.
He's like Job and how God restored to Job all he was robbed of. He had much lower paying jobs in the same industry before he went in the Corps. His new wife is such a delight....I can't begin to explain how she truly loves him, and he lives in a house that he could broker down to his financial reaches because of his excellent credit. It started out at 850,000 in a posh section of New York State.
Maybe other people don't want to discuss so much of their private lives, but I'm getting older and older and I want to make sure everything I know is really passed on....so I'm speaking out now. Don't judge others if they don't do the same as I did...their circumstances are quite different and we should respect them.
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Ham
but why is it..
I generally end up at the right place at the right time..
and I will have the joy to do this, until my last day here. I hope..
there have been a few times though.. that I've wondered why I haven't found anyone else in this existence to do the same for me..
its too much to ask..
:)
then last week it mysteriously happened, once..
I just wonder.. where do we go from here..
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krys
I'm not sure what you're asking Ham.
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Ham
me either..
scary thoughts..
I've been kind of expecting to find somebody else other than me to look me up..
now that greasespot is at it's near end, can we not, or can we bear our souls..
I mean, really..
asides from one or two here, I haven't had anybody from the last twenty (or even thirty) years look me up..
what does that say? I dunno. Not that it really makes any kind of difference in the grand scheme of things..
it really doesn't make any difference..
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