Witchcraft

[Keith]

Recently I listened to a series of teaching by Derek Prince on Demons and deliverance. (Yes, I still believe in the and that they are active) One thing I found interesting that he kept coming back to was witchcraft. He kept saying, if you are trying to control people, no matter what the means, or reason, you are guilty of practicing witchcraft. He shared this first in relationship to parents who use guilt and condemnation to control their children. However, he also shared that there were a lot of ministers, deacons, and elders … or their spouses that used religion and the word to control people rather than to try and deliver them. He felt that this was the worst kind of witchcraft. Interesting thought in light of what went on in TWI. Just thought I'd share this with you. Take it with as much salt as you want. He used a lot of examples to show what he meant and it seems that he made a good point.

[WordWolf]

This is a very interesting thought. I'll have to look this speaker up a bit.

[Twinky]

Can you post a link to that teaching?

[waysider]

I'm not posting this as a personal statement. I'm simply supplying a link, as requested.

[Keith]

I received these teaching as an mp3 disc. Looks like the link above might go to video's of the teachings. I don't always agree with everything he teaches. Some of you may feel his teaching are very simular to TWI only with out control aspect.

[Ham]

at this point I don't know exactly what it is that I believe anymore..

does anybody remember? Da vicster said something once, publically. Something about life not really "working" without an adversary..

now whether he really believed that.. I dunno. Or if it was an allusion to the dog and pony show he put on, da manogawd against da evils of da world..

personally, I think we have played this game, one lifetime after another.. us vs. them, I vs. we, Spy vs. Spy..

one was dark, one was light..

I dunno. Why choose sides, when one can have everything..

to have everything, is to have nothing..

well.. that's ok with me. I don't need much..

Scary thoughts, for fundamentalist Christians I guess..

but isn't light and dark the same name for the same thing? Only woe unto him who offends..

the thought of Controlling the World still troubles me, but not as much as ten years past..

anymore I think.. I don't like everything the way it is.. but the consequences of ME controlling it, might be far worse..

[socks]

A general question then - is it the controlling of others or witchcraft that's wrong. Or both? And what is the definition for witchcraft that controlling others falls into, if it does?

[waysider]

Protagonists, antagonists, gotta have them both to make a good story . Even old Willie Spearshaker recognized that, all those centuries ago.

[Ham]

actually.. I think the exercise of power itself corrupts.

one of my insane "gurus" said something like that.. "we are not CLEAN enough to exercise that kind of power.."

so what does one do.. one stands back, takes a few insults, smiles..

then there is the other end of the spectrum. "I refuse to be a doormat.."

do you, really?

so.. what does one do. do you exact vengeance? No.. the *rules* state vengeance is not yours..

so.. what do you do? Well.. if anyone offends me.. it is not MY problem. Perhaps in the sense of my perception it is.. but no, otherwise, it is not really my problem..

sorry if this is too much, or too much possessed Squirrel, or whatever..

[waysider]

Have you ever considered this?

If The Way had actually done some good, they would probably be lost in the annals of history by now.

"The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones.".......Mark Antony (in his funeral oration for Caesar)

Edited January 7, 2011 by waysider

[Ham]

I mean.. I've been thinking how all of this explains Hitler, Pol Pot..

perhaps they started with good intentions..

but they didn't learn the lesson.. small, is not good.. it's just better..

[Bramble]

Witchcraft = harming others is what the Christian church historically thought about witches, hence the burning at the stake. Also how witchcraft is perceived in some African communities today. And if you look at the historical witch caused 'disasters'--they weren't controlling, they were causing the deaths of cattle or plagues etc. destruction, not obedient servants.

What is sad is that some people still use that historical definition for modern day witches, pagans and Wiccans, who see witchcraft as using magical means to bring desired change.

The modern pagan/ Wiccan community is pretty hard to tame, I think. Cooperation to attain a common goal, like an event or ritual, is about as close as I've seen to control and it wasn't very controlled. It was agreement.

The common term applied in the Wiccan pagan community to such preparation is 'herding cats.'

[Ham]

my cat herds me. No kidding..

I wake up at about seven in the morning.. the cat is staring at me. "Meoooower."

so it is time to get up, go to the bathroom..

"purrr, purrr."

so we take the shower, do only other god only knows (decently) in the bathroom..

the cat is the administrator of the house.

goes into a frenzy, when mail, or a package is delivered at the back door..

[Broken Arrow]

my cat herds me. No kidding..

I wake up at about seven in the morning.. the cat is staring at me. "Meoooower."

so it is time to get up, go to the bathroom..

"purrr, purrr."

so we take the shower, do only other god only knows (decently) in the bathroom..

the cat is the administrator of the house.

goes into a frenzy, when mail, or a package is delivered at the back door..

What?

[Broken Arrow]

I've read the late Derek Prince and he has a lot to bring to the table. I would highly recommend reading his stuff. Sometimes he goes a little over the top imo. He can see demons and witchcraft everywhere if you know what I mean. I think that's an occupational hazard when you deal with the type of material he often deals with. Is witchcraft manipulation? I think so. Does that mean that everytime someone tries to manipulate someone else it's witchcraft? I don't think so. It's like anything else. Read what the man has to say and make up your own mind. As far as his teachings on prayer, it's great imo.

[Ham]

What?

there is no "what" here. It is, what it is..

[Broken Arrow]

Have you ever considered this?

If The Way had actually done some good, they would probably be lost in the annals of history by now.

"The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones.".......Mark Antony (in his funeral oration for Caesar)

The Way is lost in the annals of history. Very few know who they were and even fewer know what they taught. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying The Way did anything good. I am saying they are barely a bleep on the radar screen. So, just because something is rarely remembered doesn't mean it wasn't evil and vice-versa. At least that appears to me what you are saying.

I always think of Richard Burton whenever I try to picture Mark Antony. Isn't that a shame?

[Ham]

he can see demons and witchcraft everywhere.. doesn't that say everything?

to see it is one thing.. to actually DO something about it.. I won't say any more..

[Broken Arrow]

there is no "what" here. It is, what it is..

I bet you're one of those math teachers that when a student asks a question you answer it by writing another problem on the blackboard and then go, "it's simple! if f(x)=a2 x the square root of a hyptenuse triangle, then it only makes sense that the ratio of a titrated blueberry muffin would be positively charged and stand alone in an inverted fraction whereof all the sides have no equillibrium." (omigosh! I think I just figured out how to make an atomic bomb!)

he can see demons and witchcraft everywhere.. doesn't that say everything?

to see it is one thing.. to actually DO something about it.. I won't say any more..

It just says that's my opinion and that I think he's flawed in some areas. Someone else may think differently. I think he's a good read.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Broken Arrow

[Ham]

something like that..

actually.. every student who has ever asked me.. I've shown them line by line..

there have only been about four or five of them..

some really wanted to know.. some of them.. they wanted the grade, even if they skipped the Friday lesson..

and I don't have the power of da Almighty, just to give it away..

[Broken Arrow]

something like that..

actually.. every student who has ever asked me.. I've shown them line by line..

there have only been about four or five of them..

some really wanted to know.. some of them.. they wanted the grade, even if they skipped the Friday lesson..

and I don't have the power of da Almighty, just to give it away..

I'm sure you're a great teacher and I assume by now you know I'm just clowning around.

[Ham]

No, you can't just give it away.. as much as I'd like to..

yeah..

it depends on far more than me..

everything does..

maybe that is the lesson this time around..

there is nothing more than I would want.. than for every human soul that graces my presence.. to be a *success*. Whatever that is..

there is so much sadness here..

my own self fits the same description, of others..

but..

this is so damed funny..

they know it is hard, but they want me to have the masters degree in math..

why is it?

maybe I still have something to give.. I dunno.. or I hope so..

[socks]

Witchcraft has just too many weird things about it, spooky stuff that's way too freaky for the normal person, IMO.

Ceremonies are often held in dark, dimly lit locations, with all kinds of candles and special urns and mystical looking paraphernalia involved, crosses and icons all over the place. Incense burns heavily at some of these events, giving them a foggy smokey look.

There's all kinds of secret practices and ceremonies too, that you can't participate in if you're not one of "them". Invocations and rituals abound, using ancient languages that are memorized and repeated slavishly by those who attend. Some of these are even held at midnight, after everyone else is normally asleep.

The priests and priestesses always wear long robes and sashes and often wear caps that seem to hide their faces. Black is the color of choice and red - blood red. They all bow and kneel when one of the members of the higher orders is present, even kissing their hands or rings. Young boys, dressed in white gowns, silently assist with various details of their services after receiving special training in their practices.

Although there are separate covens in nearly every town and city they all answer to a single authority in Europe where their leader lives in unmatched opulence in a palace with it's own name - "The Vatican". Leaders meet there every year to....

Oh wait.

Wrong one. My mistake.

The yellow jester does not play

But gently pulls the strings

And smiles as the puppets dance

In the court of the crimson king.

[Ductape]

Remember when we were right and the whole world was wrong about TWI? A time when disgruntled former followers were possessed and their reports couldn't be trusted? I mean after all we were in and we knew and didn't see babies being sacrificed!

Cats don't herd, they follow the one they worship......

Edited January 7, 2011 by Ductape

[waysider]

-----and then there was "The Initiation Into The Inner Sanctum". Yeah, it was all a big joke. So that made it OK?