I was watching a Science in the Bible show on a history channel last night and one of the "tricks" they wanted to recreate was Isaiah and 400 prophets of baal with the challenge to have their God bring down fire on their altar.
After they failed all day, Isaiah had people drench his altar with water 7 times then they filled a moat around the altar with water too. Isaiah prayed, fire came down from heaven and consumed the altar, and lapped up the water in the moat.
Bad day for the prophets of baal.
So the show brings on this scientist who explains that naphtha and sulpher are naturally occurring elements which were known at that time. He pours water on a pan of naphtha and it starts to bubble and steam. A thermometer reads a temp of 527 degrees. He throws sulphur on the mix and it sizzles and bursts into flame.
So they built an altar with 12 large stones, but wood on it and doused it with water. Then the scientist put some naphtha in one corner and sprinkled sulphur over the altar and the naphtha. WHe pours water on the naphtha, and within seconds, there was smoke, and within a minute, the whole altar was on fire.
Inspecting the altar afterwards, all the wood was consumed and the rocks were cracked and crumbled.
Of course they failed the fire from heaven part, and the total consumption of the altar and,.. lapping up the water in the moat part, but hey, no one is perfect.
:blink:
WAKE UP! Sorry, I know that was long, but.....
If you want to see fiery snow, all you have to do is at the next snowfall is; sprinkle some naphtha on the snow followed by a sprikle of suphur.
WARNING: don't try this anyplace that can burn, melt, crack or be altered by heat.
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil.
The challenge of civilizations has been to set up institutional arrangements that take into account the human condition and channel it in ways that encourage the good and place a check on evil. What this means is that in our universities, in our churches, and in our political systems – in virtually every human institution – we need checks and balances. We need accountability. And we need transparency. The concentration of power — when combined with pride, arrogance, ambition, and fear — can lead even impressive people to act in unjust and repellant ways."
Very incisive above quote from Solzhenitsyn, Skyrider - thanks for that post…and funny thing – I was thinking of that whole Penn State sex abuse scandal the other day in light of the occasional post on Grease Spot that suggests cutting wierwille some slack over his licentious and predatory lifestyle because he also “taught the word like it hadn’t been known since the first century.” The “logic” behind that kind of thinking by secret wierwille admirers is beyond me!
Regarding the Penn State scandal we’ve heard about how the general public was so outraged…offended…horrified by such behavior and people looking the other way. Yet it’s odd how that sense of what’s right goes out the window for some die-hard wierwille fans.
I don’t know – maybe it takes the insidiously-powerful-mind-twisting tactics of a cult leader to throw off one’s moral compass – causing a major shift in one’s sense of what’s right. Well, cult leaders are shifty after all. …
Zero tolerance for child abusers. Zero tolerance for those who willingly cover up for the abusers. It's that simple. Don't make it hard.
The PSU scandal describes an abuser who began in the physical realm. TWI describes an abuser who began in the spiritual realm. Both wilfully manipulated the innocent.
Oh, now that justifies the sexual predator. Get them born again and then molest them. Yep - molest! That's exactly what the 50 something Wierwille did to the late teen and early twenty girls in his flock. But, hey, he got them born again.
OS, you are so right!! Many of them will be F--ked up for the rest of their lives; but VBW got them born again. That POS!
The point being.....institutions, universities, churches, political orgs, etc NEED "checks and balances"
for accountability, transparency, and to curtail abuse. Men in positions of power find ways to enforce more
power and leverage over people via hidden agendas and corruption. The ways of man are evil.
Wiewille structured twi WITHOUT any such accountability......no surprise there. He had worked in the church
structure before and was bristled by church board authority. Remember? Wierwille didn't like to be held
accountable to them. And, when the Van Wert church removed wierwille's name from the historical clergy registry,
it seemed to only fuel his distaste.
Yes, twi was sin-laden......just look at its founder.
Sky, all of us all sinners, no doubt about that. I try with all of my heart to follow the Golden Rule, every day, and I still make mistakes. But when I hurt others, I try to own up to my mistakes; I am responsible for my behavior. However, I believe that VBW, hurt countless others, but he didn't care if they were hurt, or not. From what I understand about the man, he took what he wanted, when he wanted it, and didn't care about the consequences. In the real world, there are consequences for our behavior especially if it infringes on the rights of others. VPW knew his behavior was wrong, but he didn't care; if he sinned, he sinned. I believe that God holds us accountable for our actions; some day we will have to answer for our behavior. I want God to be proud of me; that is why I try to follow the Golden Rule, every day.
i went to a church sunday for the first time in 22 or 23 years
it's called the grace church i think and every time i pass it i read their little billboard and it's always so nice
the church was tiny and ugly
the pastor was a young black/white man (kind of both)
the people there (20 or less) were: quite a few old folks, an asian couple (when she put her hand up during the singing, it was lovely, you could tell she was giving praise), a rough looking tatoo guy, and a little mix of everything else
it was so nice - i can't believe i went to church
they praised and thanked jesus every other second. you could tell they think jesus is god, but it took nothing away from their worship and love
they had a time where you could give praise and prayers. you would give a praise about something good in your life (there were a lot of those) and you could say a prayer out loud. after that the pastor reiterated everything, thanking god and praying to god
sweetest people i can't tell you
their singing was awful and loud and absolutely beautiful
"The Joe Paterno statue was removed Sunday morning from its pedestal outside Beaver Stadium, and it will be stored in an unnamed "secure location," Penn State president Rodney Erickson announced. Erickson also said the Paterno name will remain on the university's library.
Shortly before dawn in State College, Pa., a work crew installed chain-link fences to barricade access to Porter Road outside Beaver Stadium and covered the fence with a blue tarp.
The work crew then removed the 7-foot, 900-pound bronze statue by forklift and placed it into the lower level of the stadium. Erickson released his highly sensitive decision to the public at 7 a.m. ET Sunday."
Will twi ever remove the victor paul wierwille statue from their auditorium?
Of course not......the twi-public outcry has hardly moved in its intensity.
Twi-ers, splinter groups and many ex-ers are STILL indoctrinated in vpw-idolatry.
<_<
.
Sky, another interesting post. I thought VPW idolatry was a lot of bullsheet, 30 years ago when I was still with TWI. I can't understand why so many of the splinter groups still think he was the "real deal", when over time it has been proven that he was a maggot on the soul of humanity.
Watched the 2 hour special on Watergate last night - this being its 45th anniversary; there were some key points that double resonated with me - not only as a citizen of this great country but also as a former follower of wierwille's cult.
One point in particular really stood out to me - near the end of the special - i think it was Bernstein who made the comment (following up on all the cover-ups, blame-shifting, throwing people under the bus, lies piled on top of more lies, etc. ) that Nixon never apologized - after which Bernstein said something along the lines of how that might have made a difference in how everyone mentally processed the whole situation.
In Nixon's case or concerning wierwille / TWI - an apology...an admission of guilt...acknowledging that the responsibility for criminal acts falls squarely on their shoulders - will not magically right ALL the wrongs - but it will make a difference in how folks process what has occurred- maybe even fostering a sense of what GOOD government SHOULD do - be it the government of church or state...and perhaps in the case of those exploited by wierwille / TWI , begin the long overdue process of healing and resolution.
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Ham
I wonder for how long..
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chockfull
And they are his bastard children.
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waysider
I wish VP was still around. I'd ask him how to do that burning snow trick. That would be awesome!
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dabobbada
Funny you should ask!
I was watching a Science in the Bible show on a history channel last night and one of the "tricks" they wanted to recreate was Isaiah and 400 prophets of baal with the challenge to have their God bring down fire on their altar.
After they failed all day, Isaiah had people drench his altar with water 7 times then they filled a moat around the altar with water too. Isaiah prayed, fire came down from heaven and consumed the altar, and lapped up the water in the moat.
Bad day for the prophets of baal.
So the show brings on this scientist who explains that naphtha and sulpher are naturally occurring elements which were known at that time. He pours water on a pan of naphtha and it starts to bubble and steam. A thermometer reads a temp of 527 degrees. He throws sulphur on the mix and it sizzles and bursts into flame.
So they built an altar with 12 large stones, but wood on it and doused it with water. Then the scientist put some naphtha in one corner and sprinkled sulphur over the altar and the naphtha. WHe pours water on the naphtha, and within seconds, there was smoke, and within a minute, the whole altar was on fire.
Inspecting the altar afterwards, all the wood was consumed and the rocks were cracked and crumbled.
Of course they failed the fire from heaven part, and the total consumption of the altar and,.. lapping up the water in the moat part, but hey, no one is perfect.
WAKE UP! Sorry, I know that was long, but.....
If you want to see fiery snow, all you have to do is at the next snowfall is; sprinkle some naphtha on the snow followed by a sprikle of suphur.
WARNING: don't try this anyplace that can burn, melt, crack or be altered by heat.
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T-Bone
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil.
The challenge of civilizations has been to set up institutional arrangements that take into account the human condition and channel it in ways that encourage the good and place a check on evil. What this means is that in our universities, in our churches, and in our political systems – in virtually every human institution – we need checks and balances. We need accountability. And we need transparency. The concentration of power — when combined with pride, arrogance, ambition, and fear — can lead even impressive people to act in unjust and repellant ways."
Very incisive above quote from Solzhenitsyn, Skyrider - thanks for that post…and funny thing – I was thinking of that whole Penn State sex abuse scandal the other day in light of the occasional post on Grease Spot that suggests cutting wierwille some slack over his licentious and predatory lifestyle because he also “taught the word like it hadn’t been known since the first century.” The “logic” behind that kind of thinking by secret wierwille admirers is beyond me!
Regarding the Penn State scandal we’ve heard about how the general public was so outraged…offended…horrified by such behavior and people looking the other way. Yet it’s odd how that sense of what’s right goes out the window for some die-hard wierwille fans.
I don’t know – maybe it takes the insidiously-powerful-mind-twisting tactics of a cult leader to throw off one’s moral compass – causing a major shift in one’s sense of what’s right. Well, cult leaders are shifty after all. …
Edited by T-Boneclarity
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Grace Valerie Claire
OB, you nailed it!!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, bingo!! So many people were hurt for so many years in TWI; I wonder how many of them will ever recover from their association with it.
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Grace Valerie Claire
OS, you are so right!! Many of them will be F--ked up for the rest of their lives; but VBW got them born again. That POS!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, all of us all sinners, no doubt about that. I try with all of my heart to follow the Golden Rule, every day, and I still make mistakes. But when I hurt others, I try to own up to my mistakes; I am responsible for my behavior. However, I believe that VBW, hurt countless others, but he didn't care if they were hurt, or not. From what I understand about the man, he took what he wanted, when he wanted it, and didn't care about the consequences. In the real world, there are consequences for our behavior especially if it infringes on the rights of others. VPW knew his behavior was wrong, but he didn't care; if he sinned, he sinned. I believe that God holds us accountable for our actions; some day we will have to answer for our behavior. I want God to be proud of me; that is why I try to follow the Golden Rule, every day.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Ex, in other words; they were normal people.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, another interesting post. I thought VPW idolatry was a lot of bullsheet, 30 years ago when I was still with TWI. I can't understand why so many of the splinter groups still think he was the "real deal", when over time it has been proven that he was a maggot on the soul of humanity.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rejoice, it makes me want to barf.
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Grace Valerie Claire
OS, he might have been their father in the Word, but VBW was never my father in the Word. God was/ is my father in or out of the Word.
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T-Bone
Watched the 2 hour special on Watergate last night - this being its 45th anniversary; there were some key points that double resonated with me - not only as a citizen of this great country but also as a former follower of wierwille's cult.
One point in particular really stood out to me - near the end of the special - i think it was Bernstein who made the comment (following up on all the cover-ups, blame-shifting, throwing people under the bus, lies piled on top of more lies, etc. ) that Nixon never apologized - after which Bernstein said something along the lines of how that might have made a difference in how everyone mentally processed the whole situation.
In Nixon's case or concerning wierwille / TWI - an apology...an admission of guilt...acknowledging that the responsibility for criminal acts falls squarely on their shoulders - will not magically right ALL the wrongs - but it will make a difference in how folks process what has occurred- maybe even fostering a sense of what GOOD government SHOULD do - be it the government of church or state...and perhaps in the case of those exploited by wierwille / TWI , begin the long overdue process of healing and resolution.
Edited by T-BoneClarity
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