This paragraph is most telling. No remorse for wrong doings...just deepseated resentment. He was wrong and can't admit it..he wasn't screwed over so much he became the fall guy for a bunch of people who were involved in the lawsuit; while they continued in way land Craig was axed. I agree with him the way it went down was wrong...but hey...he was still wrong.
Yes he views in absolutes it seems. Severely delusional where justice is his rightful position.
The Way is good at the whole Israel scapegoat concept. Place the sins of Israel on the back of one goat and release it onto the wilderness as a sacrifice. The unprotected goat dies quickly to pay for the nations sins.
LCM was not innocent in this. Neither was he responsible for the sins of the Way. Just one more traumatized and damaged life. What if he stayed in the Baptist religion and was an ambassador for FCA or something instead of where he is now?
ust one more traumatized and damaged life. What if he stayed in the Baptist religion and was an ambassador for FCA or something instead of where he is now?
He was just a goofy jock/kid when he got involved. Sad really....he was taught how to ruin lives by a con man.
In PFAL wierwille taught it WRONG! He simplified it - he said Jesus reduced all the law down to just 2 commandments. To reduce or simplify is to eliminate or lessen components. Knowing about...
I terminated the quote where I did, because it switched to a totally different topic, and one where surety terminates, the kind of surety that stems from rightly dividing the Word.
Just as my personal experiences, or yours, are never to be used to determine doctrine, nether are the personal experiences of another (like VPW) going to enter my working the Word to rightly divide it and determine doctrine.
That’s what VPW meant when he said things like sincerity, experiences, and feelings are never a guarantee for truth.In fact, they can often lead away from the truth.
*/*/*/*
You wrote:
"In PFAL wierwille taught it WRONG! He simplified it -
he said Jesusreduced all the law down to just 2 commandments.”
Here is the section in segment 30 of the film class in which the word “reduced” appears:
You start at the bottom and you rip it up. This one ripped down from|the top to the bottom. It separated out the people from the priest and made the whole territory open so that whosoever will may come. This is that great period of law which terminated with Christ.
So, when Jesus Christ was here upon earth he terminated this Administration and with all those over 900 laws that are in the Old Testament Jesus Christ reducedthem in practice to two and they are set forth in Matthew 22. You've heard me quote it a number of times but here today I want to read it to you again.
Matthew 22:36-40:
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. On those two commandments Jesus Christ put all the Old Testament, all the law and the prophets. Someone was speaking at a meeting of the barristers, lawyers, and he just casually remarked that the Word of God said, "all the lawyers should be hanged." They said to him, "well now where did you get that idea." And he said, "well from Matthew 22 because it says 'hang the law'." Well, I don't know about that. But the Word says that Jesus Christ put all the Old Testament laws under two: love God and love your neighbor. And as I say many times "do as you fool please." Because if you love God with all of your heart, soul and strength and love your neighbor what you do will not be foolish but it will please you and it will please God because you will be doing what God wants you to do.
All the green text above was totally cut out of the PFAL book, except for traces of the veil being ripped that the green text opens up with.
Howq much in your analysis on this word “reduced” is reducedto ashes, because this green text and the word "reduced" was cut from the team. Look through it and see how many OTHER things you and others here lean on in this green text, not knowing that VPW deleted it?
Remember how we discovered the same thing with the red drapes so many years ago?They too are not in the book!
Lots of people never got the memo that many things in the film class did not make the grade for written PFAL, because most leadership ignored VPW’s call in the later years of his life to master the collaterals.The film class was supposed to be merely an introduction to the collaterals.
I must have made this point in the Mike Wars almost 20 years ago a DOZEN TIMES.
One of the big mistakes of ALL top leadership is locking onto their audio memory of the film class, while neglecting the more refined written versions in the collaterals. This is just another example of this very unfortunate, but nearly universal, phenomenon.
Now, the big question is how many of you bozos will hold onto what VPW discarded, just so you can criticize him?
One of my main themes in posting here has been you people criticize what you know not. You never mastered the collaterals, and you are stuck in the film class.
Many things in the film class were revised, refined, re-written, and some things were deleted altogether, like the above.
This particular, a rundown of all the administrations, is vastly simplified and …REDUCED… in the book. I’d make a quick estimate that only 20% of the film class on administrations made it to the book, and what did make it was heavily revised.
I’ll say it again, that for OODLES of things you have in your mind as PFAL, are merely the film class’s introduction to the material in the books PFAL and RHST. You are on thin ice in places, and you have no idea where, because lots of it is solid.
You criticize what you know not.
*/*/*/*
Studying the book and the transcript together is VERY revealing, and I have been saying this for 20 years, yet no one listens.
There are just so many changes that it is a totally shame on every leader who totally neglected to see these kinds of things.
It I had the time, I would make a two column MS Word document with film class on the left and book(s) on the right for comparison.I have done that with comparing magazine articles with corresponding book chapters and the learning from such comparisons is ASTOUNDING !!!
I tried once doing this very thing once, and probably have the file I made and gave up on.It was much more complicated a comparison fille than the others.Just for this section on the administrations it took me 2 hours to line up pages 221 to 223 with the exact spots in the film transcript.Like the green text above, most of the film transcript never made the book.
*/*/*/*
Nevertheless, I will read your post again and see if there is anything in your thin ice analysis worth commenting on.
Now, the big question is how many of you bozos will hold onto what VPW discarded, just so you can criticize him?
Let me see, you shelled out $100 for a class you already took, one which you've just stated was inferior to the written collaterals you already posess, and you're calling us bozos? Not only should you be fitted with green hair and a round, cherry red nose, you're also a patsy (as in sucker, as in a person that gets taken).
He seems to believe that his being kicked out of TWI presidency and whatever else they did to him was a violation of covenants of salt from both his ordination in 1974 and his installation as president in 1982 and he considers those people as dead to him. No interaction and doesn't even pray for any of them. This has got to be talking about current TWI people. His perspective on "contaminated believers" HAD to be affected by all that. He believes he has been betrayed by those he trusted.
He can be just as blunt as ever, but he sounds a lot more like he's his own man now. I still believe his increased influence at that time led the ministry awry, but I'm going to listen to more of his teachings. He really doesn't sound like somebody who is heavily medicated for depression like I've heard here. He lives in Kentucky now.
What do you know about medications for depression? It seems maybe not much.
SSRIs (very common type of medications for depression and anxiety) don't make people look or act like zombies.
One of the things "they did to him" was give him money to live on. Reportedly, at some point, about $60k/yr.
What? Still no time for living life, raising children, earning a living, or learning anything other than rehashing pflap?
You woulda thunk the dummies woulda wised up by now and encouraged families since the only ones left running the place are the kids of current group...I used to call it nepotism...Im a bit more honest these days...desperation.
That was a scrap you quoted, I thought I had discarded in an earlier draft.
It accidentally appeared on my post, but I deleted it just now. Please disregard it.
The post I did about an hour ago was more clear that that quoted text. That's why I tried to discard the part you quoted/
It actually wasn’t clear. You mostly talked about the oodles of errors in the film that got sanitized for the book without really explaining what he said in the book.
I might have missed it. Oodles of words. Will you be concise?
It's actually a relatively short T-Bone post. And the WordWolf post is short, also. You could easily read them while dropping a deuce or eating pistachios.
I was in completer disagreement with T-Bone’s opening paragraphs about “Jesus reducing.”That whole section was deleted from thePFAL book, so T-Bones base of operations for the rest of the thread was faulty. I plan to read the rest to see if there is anything useful to me or others.Here was how I responded to him and proved it was not in the book: https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25378-yet-another-take/page/14/#comment-625132
I was in completer disagreement with T-Bone’s opening paragraphs about “Jesus reducing.”That whole section was deleted from thePFAL book, so T-Bones base of operations for the rest of the thread was faulty. I plan to read the rest to see if there is anything useful to me or others.Here was how I responded to him and proved it was not in the book: https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25378-yet-another-take/page/14/#comment-625132
In light of the FACT of the hundreds of errors in the film, why keep pushing it? Why not correct it and improve it? Or why not just throw the whole thing out and only sell books and collaterals?
It actually wasn’t clear. You mostly talked about the oodles of errors in the film that got sanitized for the book without really explaining what he said in the book.
I might have missed it. Oodles of words. Will you be concise?
The book pages are 221 to 223. You can borrow the book from Internet Archive dot org for an hour, so I hear. Just type "wierwille texts" in the search bar.
I already posted the transcript under "fair use" but l thought I ought to minimize quotes to that. I don't want to rock the boat too much for Pawtucket or for my new relationships with TWI.
The book pages are 221 to 223. You can borrow the book from Internet Archive dot org for an hour, so I hear. Just type "wierwille texts" in the search bar.
I already posted the transcript under "fair use" but l thought I ought to minimize quotes to that. I don't want to rock the boat too much for Pawtucket or for my new relationships with TWI.
If he got it so, so wrong in the class, and the frequency of error is so high, why should anyone expect so much error to miraculously get corrected in a book?
Same natural man wrote the class who wrote the book, right?
In light of the FACT of the hundreds of errors in the film, why keep pushing it? Why not correct it and improve it? Or why not just throw the whole thing out and only sell books and collaterals?
That is complicated, and explaining it all is too wordy. I am swamped with Christmas stuff, family, etc.
TWI-4 is close to doing what you suggest, except the show the film class under very restricted conditions. I have all kinds of suggestions for them on this. One is that they sell a nice boxed set of the PFAL on dvd format. They could include a nice hard-bound transcript and sell the whole thing for $200.
I'll bet all the many grads with crumby VHS copies would be happy to get a high quality version of what they already have. How could TWI object to that?
They pretty much have moth-balled it now. Less than under TWI-2 and TWI-3 moth-balled it, but close, by restricting it to a remote location, once or twice a year.
TWI-4 is close to doing what you suggest, except the show the film class under very restricted conditions.
WITAF does this mean?!?!
1 hour ago, Mike said:
I have all kinds of suggestions for them on this. One is that they sell a nice boxed set of the PFAL on dvd format. They could include a nice hard-bound transcript and sell the whole thing for $200.
I'll bet all the many grads with crumby VHS copies would be happy to get a high quality version of what they already have.
Wait. WTF?
After admitting to oodles and oodles of errors in the class, you are recommending repackaging this error laden class and selling it to unsuspecting dupes? With a transcript so they can pull all their hair out sorting the alleged wheat from the obvious chaff? For $200!!!
A Steven Seagal film doesn't stop being a Steven Seagal film just because it's been converted from VHS to DVD. Trash is trash, regardless of the format.
This is all a sadistic, ridiculous joke. And the ridiculous earns the ridicule.
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Twinky
Mike. Get this clear. I hate no-one. I hate ABUSE. Agape thinks no evil? Right. Agape calls evil out!! And I'm calling out the abuse that occurred and likely still occurs. That's not hate
chockfull
Okay reading thru this I find it hard to believe the lack of empathy. Mike is always looking to run down anyone who went thru the Corps as a problem. Actually, I don't find it hard t believe. The w
OldSkool
Correct! But a Christian organization that is all about material abundance is not a Christian orginazation at all because that's not what Christianity is about and its shameful to even attach Christ n
Nathan_Jr
So, literally all day and night at church? Sounds exhausting.
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Bolshevik
SNF meant Sunday Night Football
But I guess Sunday Night Fellowship might be a thing
Monday - Word study
Tuesday - Fellowship
Wednesday- witnessing
Thursday - Fellowship
Friday - Game night for new people
Saturday - witnessing
If you want a busier schedule there's opportunities to Go WayD (or whatever) followed by Staff then Corps.
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Nathan_Jr
Cards Against Humanity?
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chockfull
Yes he views in absolutes it seems. Severely delusional where justice is his rightful position.
The Way is good at the whole Israel scapegoat concept. Place the sins of Israel on the back of one goat and release it onto the wilderness as a sacrifice. The unprotected goat dies quickly to pay for the nations sins.
LCM was not innocent in this. Neither was he responsible for the sins of the Way. Just one more traumatized and damaged life. What if he stayed in the Baptist religion and was an ambassador for FCA or something instead of where he is now?
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Bolshevik
Or Exploding Kittens
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chockfull
All cults have tremendously thorough hamster wheels to run on.
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OldSkool
He was just a goofy jock/kid when he got involved. Sad really....he was taught how to ruin lives by a con man.
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Mike
I terminated the quote where I did, because it switched to a totally different topic, and one where surety terminates, the kind of surety that stems from rightly dividing the Word.
Just as my personal experiences, or yours, are never to be used to determine doctrine, nether are the personal experiences of another (like VPW) going to enter my working the Word to rightly divide it and determine doctrine.
That’s what VPW meant when he said things like sincerity, experiences, and feelings are never a guarantee for truth. In fact, they can often lead away from the truth.
*/*/*/*
You wrote:
"In PFAL wierwille taught it WRONG! He simplified it -
he said Jesus reduced all the law down to just 2 commandments.”
Here is the section in segment 30 of the film class in which the word “reduced” appears:
You start at the bottom and you rip it up. This one ripped down from|the top to the bottom. It separated out the people from the priest and made the whole territory open so that whosoever will may come. This is that great period of law which terminated with Christ.
So, when Jesus Christ was here upon earth he terminated this Administration and with all those over 900 laws that are in the Old Testament Jesus Christ reduced them in practice to two and they are set forth in Matthew 22. You've heard me quote it a number of times but here today I want to read it to you again.
Matthew 22:36-40:
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. On those two commandments Jesus Christ put all the Old Testament, all the law and the prophets. Someone was speaking at a meeting of the barristers, lawyers, and he just casually remarked that the Word of God said, "all the lawyers should be hanged." They said to him, "well now where did you get that idea." And he said, "well from Matthew 22 because it says 'hang the law'." Well, I don't know about that. But the Word says that Jesus Christ put all the Old Testament laws under two: love God and love your neighbor. And as I say many times "do as you fool please." Because if you love God with all of your heart, soul and strength and love your neighbor what you do will not be foolish but it will please you and it will please God because you will be doing what God wants you to do.
All the green text above was totally cut out of the PFAL book, except for traces of the veil being ripped that the green text opens up with.
Howq much in your analysis on this word “reduced” is reduced to ashes, because this green text and the word "reduced" was cut from the team. Look through it and see how many OTHER things you and others here lean on in this green text, not knowing that VPW deleted it?
Remember how we discovered the same thing with the red drapes so many years ago? They too are not in the book!
Lots of people never got the memo that many things in the film class did not make the grade for written PFAL, because most leadership ignored VPW’s call in the later years of his life to master the collaterals. The film class was supposed to be merely an introduction to the collaterals.
I must have made this point in the Mike Wars almost 20 years ago a DOZEN TIMES.
One of the big mistakes of ALL top leadership is locking onto their audio memory of the film class, while neglecting the more refined written versions in the collaterals. This is just another example of this very unfortunate, but nearly universal, phenomenon.
Now, the big question is how many of you bozos will hold onto what VPW discarded, just so you can criticize him?
One of my main themes in posting here has been you people criticize what you know not. You never mastered the collaterals, and you are stuck in the film class.
Many things in the film class were revised, refined, re-written, and some things were deleted altogether, like the above.
This particular, a rundown of all the administrations, is vastly simplified and …REDUCED… in the book. I’d make a quick estimate that only 20% of the film class on administrations made it to the book, and what did make it was heavily revised.
I’ll say it again, that for OODLES of things you have in your mind as PFAL, are merely the film class’s introduction to the material in the books PFAL and RHST. You are on thin ice in places, and you have no idea where, because lots of it is solid.
You criticize what you know not.
*/*/*/*
Studying the book and the transcript together is VERY revealing, and I have been saying this for 20 years, yet no one listens.
There are just so many changes that it is a totally shame on every leader who totally neglected to see these kinds of things.
It I had the time, I would make a two column MS Word document with film class on the left and book(s) on the right for comparison. I have done that with comparing magazine articles with corresponding book chapters and the learning from such comparisons is ASTOUNDING !!!
I tried once doing this very thing once, and probably have the file I made and gave up on. It was much more complicated a comparison fille than the others. Just for this section on the administrations it took me 2 hours to line up pages 221 to 223 with the exact spots in the film transcript. Like the green text above, most of the film transcript never made the book.
*/*/*/*
Nevertheless, I will read your post again and see if there is anything in your thin ice analysis worth commenting on.
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So_crates
Let me see, you shelled out $100 for a class you already took, one which you've just stated was inferior to the written collaterals you already posess, and you're calling us bozos? Not only should you be fitted with green hair and a round, cherry red nose, you're also a patsy (as in sucker, as in a person that gets taken).
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
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Rocky
What do you know about medications for depression? It seems maybe not much.
SSRIs (very common type of medications for depression and anxiety) don't make people look or act like zombies.
One of the things "they did to him" was give him money to live on. Reportedly, at some point, about $60k/yr.
Another thing "they" did was divorce him.
But if you like what he has to say, then enjoy.
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Rocky
What? Still no time for living life, raising children, earning a living, or learning anything other than rehashing pflap?
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Nathan_Jr
Reduced is not a helpful private interpretation of the Greek as he presented in his film. Agreed. How did he correct his error in the book?
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OldSkool
You woulda thunk the dummies woulda wised up by now and encouraged families since the only ones left running the place are the kids of current group...I used to call it nepotism...Im a bit more honest these days...desperation.
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Mike
That was a scrap you quoted, I thought I had discarded in an earlier draft.
It accidentally appeared on my post, but I deleted it just now. Please disregard it.
The post I did about an hour ago was more clear that that quoted text. That's why I tried to discard the part you quoted/
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Nathan_Jr
It actually wasn’t clear. You mostly talked about the oodles of errors in the film that got sanitized for the book without really explaining what he said in the book.
I might have missed it. Oodles of words. Will you be concise?
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OldSkool
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Mike
I found the both posts and to them.
The WW post was easy and fun and is here:
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25378-yet-another-take/page/10/#comment-624968
I was in general agreement with him and my response flowed in harmony here:
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25378-yet-another-take/page/13/#comment-625100
*/*/*/*/*
T-Bone’s post went entirely different. He started it out with a major error here:
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25378-yet-another-take/page/9/#comment-624957
I was in completer disagreement with T-Bone’s opening paragraphs about “Jesus reducing.” That whole section was deleted from thePFAL book, so T-Bones base of operations for the rest of the thread was faulty. I plan to read the rest to see if there is anything useful to me or others. Here was how I responded to him and proved it was not in the book:
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25378-yet-another-take/page/14/#comment-625132
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OldSkool
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Nathan_Jr
In light of the FACT of the hundreds of errors in the film, why keep pushing it? Why not correct it and improve it? Or why not just throw the whole thing out and only sell books and collaterals?
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Mike
The book pages are 221 to 223. You can borrow the book from Internet Archive dot org for an hour, so I hear. Just type "wierwille texts" in the search bar.
I already posted the transcript under "fair use" but l thought I ought to minimize quotes to that. I don't want to rock the boat too much for Pawtucket or for my new relationships with TWI.
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OldSkool
Youo guys dont have the pdf versions?
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Nathan_Jr
If he got it so, so wrong in the class, and the frequency of error is so high, why should anyone expect so much error to miraculously get corrected in a book?
Same natural man wrote the class who wrote the book, right?
What a jip!
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Mike
That is complicated, and explaining it all is too wordy. I am swamped with Christmas stuff, family, etc.
TWI-4 is close to doing what you suggest, except the show the film class under very restricted conditions. I have all kinds of suggestions for them on this. One is that they sell a nice boxed set of the PFAL on dvd format. They could include a nice hard-bound transcript and sell the whole thing for $200.
I'll bet all the many grads with crumby VHS copies would be happy to get a high quality version of what they already have. How could TWI object to that?
They pretty much have moth-balled it now. Less than under TWI-2 and TWI-3 moth-balled it, but close, by restricting it to a remote location, once or twice a year.
I have suggested this to a few already.
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Nathan_Jr
WITAF does this mean?!?!
Wait. WTF?
After admitting to oodles and oodles of errors in the class, you are recommending repackaging this error laden class and selling it to unsuspecting dupes? With a transcript so they can pull all their hair out sorting the alleged wheat from the obvious chaff? For $200!!!
A Steven Seagal film doesn't stop being a Steven Seagal film just because it's been converted from VHS to DVD. Trash is trash, regardless of the format.
This is all a sadistic, ridiculous joke. And the ridiculous earns the ridicule.
Get behind me, Mike.
Edited by Nathan_JrGlove
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