Yet another take

[johniam]

Couple weeks ago I googled L Craig Martindale. I wondered if he was still alive. I saw a link called 'one bad decision away from homelessness'. I don't know who the guy is, but his essay was very long. Took me over an hour to read it. It even made Wordwolf's posts seem brief by comparison. This guy claimed he was in TWI and posted on GSC. He had some scathing things to say about both of them. His pet peeve about GSC was what he called lack of forgiveness. He said he was banned from here for life. Just because you won't forgive someone for something doesn't mean your whole life and walk with God are totally flawed. There are things from my past I still hate when I think about them. I don't let myself get too distracted, but this is just human pathos. As long as you don't go on a killing spree, you're probably OK. 

Once upon a time in TWI, we were taught that there are 5 basics...5 basic ways to practice Christianity. 1) read the bible 2) pray 3) assemble yourselves together (fellowship) 4) abundantly share and 5) witness to people. btw abundant sharing is not limited to money. Time is more perishable than money. I even consider what Mother Teresa did as abs.

Speaking of abs....2Cor. 9:7 - every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loveth a cheerful giver. That particular phrasing is only used in the context of abs, however, I see no reason why this cannot be applied to the other 4 basics. I read the bible because I'm blessed to do so, not because" God might get mad at me if I don't"...and on down the list.

I attended my first twig fellowship in October of 1976. During the rest of the 1970s I went to twigs in Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, and California, and the overall tone of those fellowships was very consistently cheerful. Oh, every so often somebody would get on their soapbox for a little too long about something, but that was the exception, not the rule. I believe the reason so many people came to TWI in the 70s was because of the cheerful atmosphere. Especially people who went to a church where they were constantly threatened with hellfire over every little thing. Unfortunately, over the next several years, the rule and the exception reversed. I blame Martindale more than anyone else. The more his influence increased, the more the cheerfulness decreased. By the time VP fell asleep the damage had been done. Everything that followed was natural fallout.

I have 2 examples of how LCM chipped away at the cheerfulness. The basic covered by this is assemble together. At Living Victoriously class sessions were morning and evening; afternoons were free time. One afternoon Branded was rehearsing at the big top and naturally drew a crowd. LCM opportunistically started 'sharing'. His tone was heavy. One thing he said is that the dropout rate in TWI was highest the year after the wow year. He was outraged. He basically made a vain repetition out of "you owe your life and commitment to the ministry that taught you the word". God is not limited to the ministry that taught me the word. That kind of logic will lead people away from cheerfulness and to embracing grudgingly and of necessity. Compared to the cheerfulness of the 70s, it seems like believers in general started becoming more openly judgmental at fellowships, all in the name of being a "believing believer". The atmosphere drastically changed.  Another time, LCM said that God called it robbery when people didn't tithe in the OT, so it must be grand larceny in the age of grace. Grace!!!!???? We are absolutely not bound by the OT law, but if you can cheerfully give 10% or more, God is OK with that, but if 5% or less is all you can give cheerfully, God will still honor that. In CSBP VP said 90% with God's blessing on it will go farther than 100% without. I believe that 99% will have the same result.

In 1994 with those purges and mass excommunications LCM really did show ALL his true colors, but prior to that it was gradual. Many of his teachings were heavy. VP and Walter Cummins spoke more easy to be entreated; their words just sounded more measured and palatable. LCM started out slow at times, but you knew eventually he was going to rev it up and spend minutes at a time talking in a loud higher pitched monotone. After hearing enough of that, I could screen him out fairly easily. It was kind of like stopping at a traffic light and couple cars away somebody has music cranked up really loud.

LCM also routinely alternated between heavy and humorous. His overall tone was heavy, then he'd punctuate it with humor so it was hard to gauge where all this was headed. I think it's possible that the high profile leadership who left TWI in 1987 (Walter, Earl Burton, and John Townsend; people like that) knew exactly what was coming and finally made their exit. Then in 1989 the loyalty letter, then in 1994 the purges and 'deportations'. LCM wanted to "clean up the ministry". All the people who bought into that were desensitized. Anybody who thought for themselves even a little were now expendable. LCM was "cleaning up" a culture he himself created.

Couple more things. 

I never heard anybody say this, but I would not be surprised to learn that Walter Cummins was offered the presidency and turned it down. To this day he is a research guy. He still writes books and has an internet fellowship. If he had been made president of TWI that would have been altered.

In 1978 LCM taught the SNS. The teaching was called 'Steven: both guns blazing. It impressed a lot of people. Donnie Fugit wrote a song with that title. Joyful Noise, on the 'God's team' recording had a song Both Barrels Blazing. Could it be that THAT teaching is what elevated him from being a rising TWI leader to a serious candidate to succeed VP as TWI president??? 

 

[waysider]

1 hour ago, johniam said:

I never heard anybody say this, but I would not be surprised to learn that Walter Cummins was offered the presidency and turned it down.

Why don't you ask him?

[Mike]

Hi johniam.  It's nice to see you again.

The "one bad decision away from homelessness" guy you mentioned sounds like the same guy that Twinky started a thread on last month titled "Anonymous mischief." 

The thread is at  https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25361-anonymous-mischief/

and the link to the guy is:

https://onebaddecisionawayfromhomelessness.wordpress.com/tag/greasespot-cafe/

 

If that is not the same link you mentioned, could you post your link? 

*/*/*/*

I liked your historical timeline analysis, and put a copy in my folder labeled "An Unvarnished History of TWI" for future use.

You nailed it on the LCM related cheerfulness drain.  He was assisted by many imitators in the Corps he trained, especially the Reverend wannabees, and/or the ones who wanted to shed their lowly "day jobs" and get on TWI payroll. 

I saw this first hand in the window cleaners breakfasts we would have at Denny's.  Many of the Corps window cleaners were obviously not into the work with any passion to do it right and for the Lord.  I even hired one, and then regretted it deeply; worst worker I had to deal with. None of them were cheerful about the work. This was 1983 and the few years after it, before the meltdown in 1986.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Mike

[chockfull]

Hi John.  I appreciate your perspective.  I however do not agree with your conclusion as it seems to do the same thing TWI is trying to do.

Label the unknown banished President the scapegoat for all the ministry’s problems.  Hide all literary references to his book that he wrote from VPW teaching and fully endorsed by VPW.

I was in the ministry during the cutover between the two. I actually viewed Living Victoriously as probably VPWs apex as a preacher and teacher.  

Yes LCM was an idiot.  But he also taught right alongside Walter Cummins who taught with the personality of a band aid.  Meaning it was difficult to even pay attention to him for over an hour.

I disagree that Walter being President would have significantly altered the course of the Way history.

[chockfull]

39 minutes ago, Mike said:

You nailed it on the LCM related cheerfulness drain.  He was assisted by many imitators in the Corps he trained, especially the Reverend wannabees, and/or the ones who wanted to shed their lowly "day jobs" and get on TWI payroll. 

I saw this first hand in the window cleaners breakfasts we would have at Denny's.  Many of the Corps window cleaners were obviously not into the work with any passion to do it right and for the Lord.  I even hired one, and then regretted it deeply; worst worker I had to deal with. None of them were cheerful about the work. This was 1983 and the few years after it, before the meltdown in 1986.

Yep the imitators.  The zealots.  The future leader society within the Corps.  FYI one of those types is the Chairman of the BOD in todays TWI.

I myself did a turn at the Ways oldest profession - window cleaning.  Worked with and for many people and by myself.  More than once took the lessons learned and in hard times went out bid houses on a business card, worked and collected cash.

Thankfully none of the people I worked with and for seemed to have your attitude.  That would have sucked big time!

[T-Bone]

32 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Yep the imitators.  The zealots.  The future leader society within the Corps.  FYI one of those types is the Chairman of the BOD in todays TWI.

I myself did a turn at the Ways oldest profession - window cleaning.  Worked with and for many people and by myself.  More than once took the lessons learned and in hard times went out bid houses on a business card, worked and collected cash.

Thankfully none of the people I worked with and for seemed to have your attitude.  That would have sucked big time!

say, I remember a company the Re@l Cle@n Window company or something like that...Charlie J would train or send someone out to train people how to - ready for this - clean a window...and then you get these invoice pads with Re@l Cle@n Window company at the top...and each window cleaner would send a percentage of their profits to Charlie J...a weird business model - sounds like The Way International's.

[chockfull]

32 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

say, I remember a company the Re@l Cle@n Window company or something like that...Charlie J would train or send someone out to train people how to - ready for this - clean a window...and then you get these invoice pads with Re@l Cle@n Window company at the top...and each window cleaner would send a percentage of their profits to Charlie J...a weird business model - sounds like The Way International's.

Yes a few including him I think built up their empires to make themselves quite rich while paying out little for perceived cheap labor. If that Charlie guy was 6th Corps then if I remember right he was the origin of teaching people how to do that business.

I worked for some of those types, in partnership arrangements, by myself, and taught the components to kids if they ever need a what they call today “side hustle”.

I also worked for non Way employers who paid a minimum wage type rate too - if I needed the work no problem.  

Edited December 14, 2022 by chockfull

[OldSkool]

40 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

say, I remember a company the Re@l Cle@n Window company or something like that...Charlie J would train or send someone out to train people how to - ready for this - clean a window...and then you get these invoice pads with Re@l Cle@n Window company at the top...and each window cleaner would send a percentage of their profits to Charlie J...a weird business model - sounds like The Way International's.

Does indeed. One of my corps brothers started several window cleaning companies and made out like a bandit. He flipped two companies and las I knew was partner but not actively working in a third. Guy made a ton of money though.

[Nathan_Jr]

9 hours ago, T-Bone said:

say, I remember a company the Re@l Cle@n Window company or something like that...Charlie J would train or send someone out to train people how to - ready for this - clean a window...and then you get these invoice pads with Re@l Cle@n Window company at the top...and each window cleaner would send a percentage of their profits to Charlie J...a weird business model - sounds like The Way International's.

Lol!

It could sound Ike a franchise model. It’s probably not. This company still exists in Columbus, OH, but they don’t have a website.

It also sounds like a crude MLM structure, or a mafia model or even a Roman Imperial tribute/tax structure. Of course, VPW keyed off all three of these models when inventing his religion and constructing his profit machine.

The advent of Amway and the modern MLM scheme coincided with a wave of new pseudo-Christian religious cults, gurus and hucksters. The pyramid schemes and the religious fraudsters learned from and fed off each other. They also competed with each other for dupes.

PFAL opens with vpw lamenting the abundance of “other” Christians. At that time (and maybe even today) in the Midwest, no Christians were more abundantly prosperous than the handful of families at the top of the Amway pyramid. This did not go unnoticed by vpw - he wanted a piece of that action. So, he started his own cult.

Yet, another take on the truth of TWI and the sand upon which it was built. 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Nathan_Jr

[OldSkool]

13 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Charlie J would train or send someone out to train people how to - ready for this - clean a window...

Train - one of the most overused and abused words in TWI. You train a dog....anywho...I received window cleaning training as well when I worked housekeeping in residence and on the field from a painter I worked with at times doing extrerior painting. We would overspray the window and come back with a razor scraper and squegee so that required training as well..

[T-Bone]

I think what made LCM the perfect candidate for TWI presidency was he mimicked wierwille to a T. Except what he lacked in charisma he made up for in stony-cold-hearted-callousness to the Nth degree. I remember one corps night LCM commenting on Special Olympic athletes referring to them as freaks of nature. Yup – he really said that – I swear on our daughter’s trisomy 21.

She was born after we left TWI. I can’t even imagine what hell she would have had to endure with parents following the dispassionate dictatorship of a pseudo-Christian cult leader. She has won several gold and bronze medals in various events over the years…I just have to say Special Olympians could teach that Jock-turned-cult-leader a thing or two about  teamwork and real sportsmanship . I’ve seen Special Olympians stop mid-stride in a race to turn and help another athlete who tripped. As Christians we’re all on the same team – and Jesus Christ is our player-coach…

and yet…and yet…and yet…

I don’t know how many times I’ve heard LCM go off on a rant about those bastard-children and idolators in Christian groups who don’t have the rightly-divided Word and don’t even worship the one true God.

 

~ ~ ~ ~

You’re living in LaLa Land if you think it would have made much difference if Walter C was president. Walter would have been nothing more than a sock puppet – made from wierwille’s dirty old socks. He would have been controlled by those who are dedicated to keeping the lie-support system functioning for their idol wierwille.

Read Penworks’ book   Undertow   and you’ll find out how Walter caved to wierwille’s pressure so that one of those “expanded  translations according to usage” would line up with his own weird ideology.

 

Imagine if Walter was president of TWI. Would he have the ballz to correct anything?

“Hi, it’s me your new prez  Reverend Wally C – just wanted to give you all a heads-up – since we are a research ministry, we’re going to correct a lot of the error that was promulgated in PFAL – starting off with Doctor’s teaching on the Greek word   πρός  [ pros ]   in  John 1:1  . Doctor said it  meant   ‘together with yet distinctly independent of’  and Doctor explained it as simply Jesus Christ was only in God’s foreknowledge but NOT actually with God. We’re going to revise that to reflect the accuracy of   Koine Greek   so it literally means Jesus Christ was in close proximity to God…oh and by the way - just so you know wierwille wasn’t a real doctor either.”

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by T-Bone
typos are a freak of the writer

[waysider]

8 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

PFAL opens with vpw lamenting the abundance of “other” Christians.

Not even other Christians. "I saw the unbelievers living more abundantly than the believers." (paraphrased)

Clearly, what he was pitching was the promise of material gain. No God needed, just follow the formula. It's so simple, even the unbelievers can do it. Just practice the law of believing and, oh, yeah, don't forget to send me 10% of every paycheck. Later, when the formula failed to produce the promised results, we're told we misunderstood, the abundant life is "spiritual". We need to renew our minds and speak in tongues more. And be sure to pass the word to other hopeful recruits. There's strength in numbers, after all.

[waysider]

4 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

oh and by the way - just so you know wierwille wasn’t a real doctor either.”

Yeah, and his brother Harry wasn't my uncle.

[Nathan_Jr]

9 minutes ago, waysider said:

Not even other Christians. "I saw the unbelievers living more abundantly than the believers." (paraphrased)

Clearly, what he was pitching was the promise of material gain. No God needed, just follow the formula. It's so simple, even the unbelievers can do it. Just practice the law of believing and, oh, yeah, don't forget to send me 10% of every paycheck. Later, when the formula failed to produce the promised results, we're told we misunderstood, the abundant life is "spiritual". We need to renew our minds and speak in tongues more. And be sure to pass the word to other hopeful recruits. There's strength in numbers, after all.

Thanks for that clarification.

Unbelievers, other Christians, whatever. VPW was an equal opportunist in his contempt and envy of anyone outside his cult.

 

chiquita gwanchalay!

[Nathan_Jr]

2 hours ago, T-Bone said:

I think what made LCM the perfect candidate for TWI presidency was he mimicked wierwille to a T. Except what he lacked in charisma he made up for in stony-cold-hearted-callousness to the Nth degree. I remember one corps night LCM commenting on Special Olympic athletes referring to them as freaks of nature. Yup – he really said that – I swear on our daughter’s trisomy 21.

She was born after we left TWI. I can’t even imagine what hell she would have had to endure with parents following the dispassionate dictatorship of a pseudo-Christian cult leader. She has won several gold and bronze medals in various events over the years…I just have to say Special Olympians could teach that Jock-turned-cult-leader a thing or two about  teamwork and real sportsmanship . I’ve seen Special Olympians stop mid-stride in a race to turn and help another athlete who tripped. As Christians we’re all on the same team – and Jesus Christ is our player-coach…

and yet…and yet…and yet…

I don’t know how many times I’ve heard LCM go off on a rant about those bastard-children and idolators in Christian groups who don’t have the rightly-divided Word and don’t even worship the one true God.

 

~ ~ ~ ~

You’re living in LaLa Land if you think it would have made much difference if Walter C was president. Walter would have been nothing more than a sock puppet – made from wierwille’s dirty old socks. He would have been controlled by those who are dedicated to keeping the lie-support system functioning for their idol wierwille.

Read Penworks’ book   Undertow   and you’ll find out how Walter caved to wierwille’s pressure so that one of those “expanded  translations according to usage” would line up with his own weird ideology.

 

Imagine if Walter was president of TWI. Would he have the ballz to correct anything?

“Hi, it’s me your new prez  Reverend Wally C – just wanted to give you all a heads-up – since we are a research ministry, we’re going to correct a lot of the error that was promulgated in PFAL – starting off with Doctor’s teaching on the Greek word   πρός  [ pros ]   in  John 1:1  . Doctor said it  meant   ‘together with yet distinctly independent of’  and Doctor explained it as simply Jesus Christ was only in God’s foreknowledge but NOT actually with God. We’re going to revise that to reflect the accuracy of   Koine Greek   so it literally means Jesus Christ was in close proximity to God…oh and by the way - just so you know wierwille wasn’t a real doctor either.”

 

 

 I absolutely KNOW this was taught, because it was taught to me just a few years ago.

My “teacher” of vpw’s version of tha werd rejected Loy but revered vpw as the number three man in the cosmic order behind Jesus and Paul. This abject wicked teaching that originated from vpw and was propagated by Loy is one of many hundreds of pieces of evidence proving that not only was victor not THE Man of God, he wasn’t even A Man of God. 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Nathan_Jr
Music coordinators don’t know shonta

[T-Bone]

57 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

 I absolutely KNOW this was taught, because it was taught to me just a few years ago.

My “teacher” of vpw’s version of tha werd rejected Loy but revered vpw as the number three man in the cosmic order behind Jesus and Paul. This abject wicked teaching that originated from vpw and was propagated by Loy is one of many hundreds of pieces of evidence proving that not only was victor not THE Man of God, he wasn’t even A Man of God. 

 

Behold I show you another mystery…

LCM as the president of a supposedly Christian organization - referred to people with   special needs    as freaks of nature.

BUT

In legal usage in the English-speaking world, an act of God is a natural hazard outside human control, such as an earthquake or tsunami, for which no person can be held responsible. An act of God may amount to an exception to liability in contracts (as under the Hague–Visby Rules)  or it may be an "insured peril" in an insurance policy. See  Acts of God Sample Clauses: 769 Samples | Law Insider

 

I wonder if folks in TWI can see any problems in the juxtaposition of LCM’s statement to  insurance underwriters   

The term    freak of nature  means monstrosity, a malformation, abnormal. In show business, it may refer to a person or an animal on exhibition as showing some strange deviation from nature, such as a bearded woman or an albino.

See Freak-of-nature Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary

 

Why would a supposed Christian leader use such a derogative term – especially in the context of training Christian leaders [LCM said this at a corps night teaching session] ? It sounds like something a rank unbeliever would say – from the viewpoint of a person who doesn’t even acknowledge the existence of God. Like someone unfamiliar with all the passages in the Bible that encourage us to care for the weak and the poor. Strange that insurance underwriters usually acknowledge the existence of God.

[Nathan_Jr]

3 hours ago, T-Bone said:

 

Behold I show you another mystery…

LCM as the president of a supposedly Christian organization - referred to people with   special needs    as freaks of nature.

BUT

In legal usage in the English-speaking world, an act of God is a natural hazard outside human control, such as an earthquake or tsunami, for which no person can be held responsible. An act of God may amount to an exception to liability in contracts (as under the Hague–Visby Rules)  or it may be an "insured peril" in an insurance policy. See  Acts of God Sample Clauses: 769 Samples | Law Insider

 

I wonder if folks in TWI can see any problems in the juxtaposition of LCM’s statement to  insurance underwriters   

The term    freak of nature  means monstrosity, a malformation, abnormal. In show business, it may refer to a person or an animal on exhibition as showing some strange deviation from nature, such as a bearded woman or an albino.

See Freak-of-nature Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary

 

Why would a supposed Christian leader use such a derogative term – especially in the context of training Christian leaders [LCM said this at a corps night teaching session] ? It sounds like something a rank unbeliever would say – from the viewpoint of a person who doesn’t even acknowledge the existence of God. Like someone unfamiliar with all the passages in the Bible that encourage us to care for the weak and the poor. Strange that insurance underwriters usually acknowledge the existence of God.

Victor first taught this wickedness to his master student. In turn, his master student taught this wickedness to victor's beloved CORPS. There is no LCM without VPW.  LCM was adopted by VPW; VPW's seed in dwells in LCM.  VPW put oil on LCM's head -- OIL!!

As every English translation of the Bible goes back to Tyndale, so all wickedness and failings of TWI go back to Wierwille -- ALL of it.

A childish, spiritual immaturity blames LCM and makes him the scapegoat for victor paul wierwille's manifest contempt of God, Truth, Love.

 

 

"Beauty is simply reality seen with the eyes of Love." - Tagore

 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Nathan_Jr

[johniam]

quote: I disagree that Walter being President would have significantly altered the course of the Way history.

That's not what I meant. I meant that IF Walter had become TWI prezz that it would have altered Walter's credibility as a research guy. As far as what Walter could have done as TWI prezz...part of me would love to have found out.

[johniam]

quote: - In 1978 LCM taught the SNS. The teaching was called 'Steven: both guns blazing. It impressed a lot of people. Donnie Fugit wrote a song with that title. Joyful Noise, on the 'God's team' recording had a song Both Barrels Blazing. Could it be that THAT teaching is what elevated him from being a rising TWI leader to a serious candidate to succeed VP as TWI president??? 

The part of that teaching I remember most is his use of an even then archaic phrase..."AW CRUD!!!" This was a 3rd generation euphemism. First was aw yes aitch eye tee. Then aw crap, then aw crud. Some people have weird ideas about what constitutes quality of life. 

[WordWolf]

17 hours ago, johniam said:

(snip)

 

17 hours ago, johniam said:

I never heard anybody say this, but I would not be surprised to learn that Walter Cummins was offered the presidency and turned it down. To this day he is a research guy. He still writes books and has an internet fellowship. If he had been made president of TWI that would have been altered.

In 1978 LCM taught the SNS. The teaching was called 'Steven: both guns blazing. It impressed a lot of people. Donnie Fugit wrote a song with that title. Joyful Noise, on the 'God's team' recording had a song Both Barrels Blazing. Could it be that THAT teaching is what elevated him from being a rising TWI leader to a serious candidate to succeed VP as TWI president??? 

 

You never heard anybody say it because it never happened.  vpw had the sole power to determine his successor- which is how vpw wanted it.   When it came time to OFFICIALLY appoint a successor, vpw went through that sham of having people write down who they thought should be it.  He also had the top people vote.  Neither meant ANYTHING.  lcm was not written in as a serious contender, nor did the top people vote for him.   It didn't matter, because vpw had picked lcm long before any of this.   When someone asked vpw (at the time, immediately after his announcement) why he picked lcm, vpw didn't hesitate in telling them the sole reason was that lcm never questioned vpw, when vpw gave him an order, lcm did it automatically.  

vpw only had 2 people, that we can see, who were willing to run off a cliff if vpw said to run off a cliff-  lcm, who had been there longer, and cgeer, who had not.   vpw had already sent cg to Europe so lcm and cg didn't have to share a stage. 

When you follow lcm's accounts of the time, it's also clear- although it probably wasn't clear to lcm- that vpw had him in mind several years before his selection- in fact, before even putting lcm in charge of the corps.  Once he'd done that, vpw had pretty much locked onto the idea and stuck with that.  In fact, it seems the sole reason donna started dating lcm in the first place!  lcm's own account mentioned he was interested in her, vpw went off to talk to her, and vpw told donna lcm was going to be the big cheese in twi- which was when they STARTED dating.  Her own accounts before that had been that she intended -sometime in the future- to marry a guy who was going to be a rising star in twi, period. 

So, what made lcm a "serious candidate" was vpw's sole estimation that lcm was loyal to vpw even unto painful death.  As it turned out,  things didn't work out at all like vpw expected, but that's vpw's fault.  The top people at twi had their own ideas who it should be- and nobody said lcm was an excellent choice.  The best anyone said was that he'd run the corps, so the corps should go along with him as leader.

Nobody ever offered anyone else the big chair in twi.  vpw reserved that sole right to himself, and he ignored the recommendations of others and locked on to lcm years before he announced anything.  Look back, and you'll see, vpw wasn't very subtle about trying to mold lcm into another vpw.  Don't believe me?   Why else did vpw give lcm a motorcycle and THEN try to GET him interested in riding one like vpw?

[WordWolf]

15 hours ago, Mike said:

Hi johniam.  It's nice to see you again.

The "one bad decision away from homelessness" guy you mentioned sounds like the same guy that Twinky started a thread on last month titled "Anonymous mischief." 

The thread is at  https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25361-anonymous-mischief/

and the link to the guy is:

https://onebaddecisionawayfromhomelessness.wordpress.com/tag/greasespot-cafe/

 

If that is not the same link you mentioned, could you post your link? 

*/*/*/*

I liked your historical timeline analysis, and put a copy in my folder labeled "An Unvarnished History of TWI" for future use.

You nailed it on the LCM related cheerfulness drain.  He was assisted by many imitators in the Corps he trained, especially the Reverend wannabees, and/or the ones who wanted to shed their lowly "day jobs" and get on TWI payroll. 

I saw this first hand in the window cleaners breakfasts we would have at Denny's.  Many of the Corps window cleaners were obviously not into the work with any passion to do it right and for the Lord.  I even hired one, and then regretted it deeply; worst worker I had to deal with. None of them were cheerful about the work. This was 1983 and the few years after it, before the meltdown in 1986.

 

 

It surprises nobody that you'd endorse that. His "analysis" included speculation that contradicted eyewitness accounts of what happened at the time, and skipped all the responsibility vpw had in the situation.

[WordWolf]

14 hours ago, chockfull said:

Hi John.  I appreciate your perspective.  I however do not agree with your conclusion as it seems to do the same thing TWI is trying to do.

Label the unknown banished President the scapegoat for all the ministry’s problems.  Hide all literary references to his book that he wrote from VPW teaching and fully endorsed by VPW.

I was in the ministry during the cutover between the two. I actually viewed Living Victoriously as probably VPWs apex as a preacher and teacher.  

Yes LCM was an idiot.  But he also taught right alongside Walter Cummins who taught with the personality of a band aid.  Meaning it was difficult to even pay attention to him for over an hour.

I disagree that Walter being President would have significantly altered the course of the Way history.

To say nothing of the fact that Walter DID run his own thing after he jumped ship, and, if he'd had the leadership abilities to actually run things, an entire new ministry would have re-formed around him, with more than 1/2 the ex-twi community following him.   There were people who WANTED to take their cues from him at the time, but little came of it- and that was back when 4/5 of the twi regulars had all jumped ship TOGETHER, to say nothing of 4/5 of the local leaders.    If he had the ability and the drive, it would have happened organically over the next few years.  It didn't happen. It didn't look like it was GOING to happen.

[WordWolf]

11 hours ago, waysider said:

Not even other Christians. "I saw the unbelievers living more abundantly than the believers." (paraphrased)

Clearly, what he was pitching was the promise of material gain. No God needed, just follow the formula. It's so simple, even the unbelievers can do it. Just practice the law of believing and, oh, yeah, don't forget to send me 10% of every paycheck. Later, when the formula failed to produce the promised results, we're told we misunderstood, the abundant life is "spiritual". We need to renew our minds and speak in tongues more. And be sure to pass the word to other hopeful recruits. There's strength in numbers, after all.

It's rather obvious when you review the first segment of Session 1.  At the very first verse, vpw made it clear that he was talking about financial abundance, material gain.  I'm aware that there's always someone willing to try to explain it away, but it's never by actually addressing what vpw said.  vpw was very clear and straightforward on the subject.

[chockfull]

3 hours ago, WordWolf said:

It's rather obvious when you review the first segment of Session 1.  At the very first verse, vpw made it clear that he was talking about financial abundance, material gain.  I'm aware that there's always someone willing to try to explain it away, but it's never by actually addressing what vpw said.  vpw was very clear and straightforward on the subject.

I mean if people are interested in prosperity gospel why not follow Joel Olsteen?

Mild mannered dude that seems to know how to mint money.  Can himself drive a red Ferrari without attracting much attention.

Creflo Dollar and Benny Hinn (who has Branham roots) should take a lesson out of his book lol.

[chockfull]

17 hours ago, OldSkool said:

Does indeed. One of my corps brothers started several window cleaning companies and made out like a bandit. He flipped two companies and las I knew was partner but not actively working in a third. Guy made a ton of money though.

Ettore Steccone would have been proud lol