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God’s Budget and Double Doors .... On the Scarcity of Miracles


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God’s Budget and Double Doors

On the Scarcity of Miracles

 

Does God have a budget for signs, miracles, and wonders?

I saw lots of signs and wonders in the early 1970s, some that benefitted me and some benefitting others, and maybe even a miracle or two.  This was on Long Island, just across a bridge from the Groovy Christians at Rye, NY.  The Word was hot then, and BOTH Jesus Christ and the class were talked up bigtime.  It was a genuine work of God.  The archives here have a couple of posts from Ralph D verifying this, as he too was in the middle of it all. This is undeniable.

But it is equally undeniable that NOT as many mighty signs, miracles, and wonders were being seen as the Seventies ended. Not coincidentally, by 1982 the Corps had taken over and was supervising most field work. In my most recent theory on this, the over-supervising and stifling influence of the Corps is characterizes lots of how TWI-1 phased out and TWI-2 phased in.

I think we have all agreed here, that since 1986, the higher up in leadership that you look, the less likelihood there is of seeing any signs, miracles, and wonders coming from their hands.

Most of what power I saw in the Seventies was associated with regular believers witnessing, running classes, under-shepherding new people, and splitting twigs.  That activity was hotter than hot on Long Island then, but when I moved to HQ in 1976 the local movement of the Word in New Knoxville was down to absolute zero. That was one of the reasons I left there two years later. I can hardly imagine the insularity and passage of 4 decades has only made that worse for the long-term residents at HQ. 

Because I had specialized in witnessing back on Long Island, I was able to sign up two locals in the New Knoxville area, and it was considered phenomenal by some on staff.  I had to send my sign-ups to Sidney, though, for fellowship and under-shepherding. Things were pretty dead in town, spiritually.

*/*/*

But there is much more to the scarcity of miracles that I want to talk about here, than the ineptness of TWI.  I sense the scarcity of miracles is universal, almost regardless of people, and as if it were a law of some sort, with few exceptions.

*/*/*

I have told this story once, but it bears repeating here.

Back in the day, on Long Island we had a wonderful new brother added to our Branch one day, pseudo-named George.  He was a super nice guy, always fun and laughing, and a real joy to be around.  He was meek and joined in on witnessing very well.  He was not all messed up and straining to be positive and renew his mind; he HAD it!  He seemed to be pretty well adjusted BEFORE taking the class, and just jumped in right away as a renewed mind believer.  I wish I had stayed there longer to get to know him better, and regret that I’ve been unable to find him.

George had one good arm and his other was completely withered from birth.  A tiny outline of a baby’s hand with some fingers could be seen protruding a tiny bit from his shoulder. He could hide it easily with a shirt, but in the Summertime we could often plainly see it.  He didn’t try to hide it, and seemed to be quite skilled at living without the arm.  He was active and got around well; an unforgettable guy.

When we would run a PFAL class, just EVERYONE held their breath during the part about the man with the withered hand. We all wanted to see George miraculously healed.  I think he went WoW or maybe in the Corps, but I’m not sure. 

But I do know for sure, that if George had ever gotten that new arm build by a miracle, I would CERTAINLY have heard about it from all my old Long Island friends.  Word about George would have traveled fast, fast, fast.  I think there are still a dozen of us still alive and friends on Facebook.

We did not see any such spectacular miracles. Maybe there were some, but word seemed to not get around much about them if they did happen.

*/*/*

I have thought long and hard about this scarcity of miracles.

One hunch is that we grads have not yet really graduated to that level yet.

But that is ONLY PART of my thinking.
The scarcity of miracles is universal, and not just in the failed TWI. 

So, the question then becomes, why haven’t ANY groups of Christians in modern times gotten the same results that we see in Acts of the Apostles?

But then, looking closer at Acts, we can see the abundance of miracles there was in spurts (like Long Island?), and that most of the time, they too experienced the same scarcity of miracles.  We do see Paul sprung from jail once by a miraculous earthquake, and then some fast acting on revelation by Paul.  But then how many times later was Paul NOT sprung from jail?  And then, how many of the Apostles eventually died? All of them died. Miracles were rare for them too.

I am thinking out loud here.  Still working on all this.

At the very end of this thinking, I keep running into the very odd idea that God has limited Himself to a “budget” on miracles SO THAT the devil can be limited to the same a budget on producing lying signs, miracles, and wonders. 

I have also noticed that many here are very much against the idea of God having any limitations. This thread is an opportunity for possibly thinking that through in more detail.

*/*/*/*

God uses angels to do a lot of things. There is an interesting account in the OT about this in the Book of Daniel, where Daniel was praying for some help with something, and nothing happens for a long time, like weeks. Suddenly one day an angel shows up, and says something like “I’m here to help. Sorry I’m so late. I was detained for weeks struggling with some ‘big guy’ out there.”

That was my Super Abbreviated Version; below is the NIV:

 

*/*/*/*

Daniel Chapter 10

In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel (who was called Belteshazzar). Its message was true and it concerned a great war. The understanding of the message came to him in a vision.

At that time I, Daniel, mourned for three weeks.  I ate no choice food; no meat or wine touched my lips; and I used no lotions at all until the three weeks were over.

On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, as I was standing on the bank of the great river, the Tigris, I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.

I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision; those who were with me did not see it, but such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves. So I was left alone, gazing at this great vision; I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale and I was helpless. Then I heard him speaking, and as I listened to him, I fell into a deep sleep, my face to the ground.

A hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees. He said, “Daniel, you who are highly esteemed, consider carefully the words I am about to speak to you, and stand up, for I have now been sent to you.” And when he said this to me, I stood up trembling.

Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

While he was saying this to me, I bowed with my face toward the ground and was speechless. Then one who looked like a man touched my lips, and I opened my mouth and began to speak. I said to the one standing before me, “I am overcome with anguish because of the vision, my lord, and I feel very weak.  How can I, your servant, talk with you, my lord? My strength is gone and I can hardly breathe.”

Again the one who looked like a man touched me and gave me strength. “Do not be afraid, you who are highly esteemed,” he said. “Peace! Be strong now; be strong.”

When he spoke to me, I was strengthened and said, “Speak, my lord, since you have given me strength.”

So he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.”

*/*/*

Now try not to be distracted by the great example of the Great Principle that is laid out in the open here in Daniel 10, and PLEASE focus on the red fonts that show how God was limited. God’s angels were obviously limited in that chapter, and they struggled to prevail. It looks like they were on a budget that just barely worked.

From this and many other scriptures (forthcoming), I get the impression that, though God has infinite power, He has limited His use of His power for various reasons, and must work within His own constructed framework. 

I get the impression He limits Himself to some kind of “Intervention Budget” SO THAT He can limit the devil to the same budget. 

WHY it works this way I do not know.

It just seems to be implied to be the case in the scriptures.  I think this maybe is what VPW was often referring to when he said the God did things “legally” and not just willy-nilly.  I will be soon bringing out more scriptures that gave me this hunch many years ago. 

Never once have I heard VPW or anyone else in the ministry, or out of the ministry, bring up an idea like this.  I have no idea where I got it from, but it just looks that way when I read the Bible. I think the Book of Job and it’s courtroom scenes may have first planted this idea. Also in that courtroom we see the devil being limited to not killing Job. Also, the many times God’s people in the Bible just barely got delivered at the last minute suggested a budget to me.

The spiritual battles in the OT are often ones of God just barely winning, but often with an abundance of cleverness and foresight.  God knew beforehand how big to set His budget so that He could rescue the broken world from the devil. God’s budget is tight; tight enough to make it impossible for the adversary to rule HIS OWN WORLD very efficiently.  Not knowing the future, the adversary wastes his budget on failed attempts to thwart God.

*/*/*/*

Now another feature of this theory or hunch of mine is that the budget not only applies to the “amount” of an intervention from the spiritual to the physical, it ALSO implies a TIME BUDGET as well. 

Again, from a bunch of scriptures (forthcoming) I have seen situations in the Scriptures that I describe as “Double Doors.”  That mean when God opens the door between the spiritual and physical for an intervention, He must open a corresponding door to the adversary as well.  Otherwise the doors are shut tight, like the way we see an angel in Genesis that blocks and guards Eden and the Tree of Live. The doors open at just the right time, and then soon shut.

I first noted this “Double Door” phenomenon in the Road to Damascus incident when Paul was converted. God opened the door for Paul to see Jesus, but the devil pounces in through that same set of doors to try and kill Paul.  Like the limitations put on him in the Book of Job, the devil is only successful in blinding Paul. This blinding is against God’s will, but the door was then shut, so God directed Paul and Ananias to get together for healing later.

I thought I’d submit this hunch of mine for review here, and brainstorming a little outside the usual confines of issues in About the Way.  I am sure many tangential topics will be included.

 

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2 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

If he doesn’t get them parallel, how will he know what’s available, how to get it, and what to do with it once he’s got it?

"This wasn't God's will so God had to do such and such"

Just humorous 

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Just now, Nathan_Jr said:

I don’t think Charlene ever claimed it to be. Nor did anyone else. 

The subject was simply, "a book".

The beauty is you don't need to know specifics.  

We're learning not to engage.  And this will help somehow.

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13 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

The subject was simply, "a book".

The beauty is you don't need to know specifics.  

We're learning not to engage.  And this will help somehow.

If you know, then you know that you know that you know.

Earlier, someone just didn’t have time to read a book. As evidenced by this 7000 word post, time is no longer an issue. 

Edited by Nathan_Jr
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2 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

If you know, then you know that you know that you know.

Earlier, someone just didn’t have time to read a book. As evidenced by this 7000 word post, time is no longer an issue. 

I'm trying to get through Dune.  And open an MRE.  

What does anyone really know?  We still have to make decisions.  

Know that you know that you know - must feed the idealistic mind, which 20 somethings are prone to do.  It's just a stage.  I suppose black and white thinking are easier to accept at that age too.

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17 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Know that you know that you know - must feed the idealistic mind, which 20 somethings are prone to do.  It's just a stage.  I suppose black and white thinking are easier to accept at that age too.

It seems that age is so easily seduced by ideals, so entranced by conclusions, so willing to be conditioned.

It explains a lot about TWI's early growth

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3 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

God had to limit himself so as to limit the devil.

 

Does that mean God is subject to reason?

Apparently, according to some, God was just beside himself on how to deal with the devil. Poor God. Must have been frustrating, all those hoops to jump through.

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1 minute ago, Nathan_Jr said:

It seems that age is so easily seduced by ideals, so entranced by conclusions, so willing to be conditioned.

It explains a lot about TWI's early growth

Yes, I would think every generation going back knew that.  That transition should be anticipated.  

 

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I wonder what the age distribution in Jesus' 12 apostles was.

Similarly for the about 500 disciples he eventually got.

Seems like they all were the hippie types, who could kinda drop everything and tour with Jesus like he was Jerry Garcia.

Hmmm, I'd estimate the age distribution to be about mid to late teens and into the twenties.  That Jesus would know them cult tactics, too, I guess.

 

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7 hours ago, Mike said:

I wonder what the age distribution in Jesus' 12 apostles was.

Similarly for the about 500 disciples he eventually got.

Seems like they all were the hippie types, who could kinda drop everything and tour with Jesus like he was Jerry Garcia.

Hmmm, I'd estimate the age distribution to be about mid to late teens and into the twenties.  That Jesus would know them cult tactics, too, I guess.

 

Since, in biblical times, you weren't considered an adult until you were 30, I would have guessed all the apostles were 30 or older.

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11 hours ago, Mike said:

Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

Apparently the all powerful God never learned to multi-task.

Also, wouldn't an all knowing being know how to get his point across quickly and efficiently and not have to monkey around for 21 days.

Edited by So_crates
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11 hours ago, Mike said:

I have told this story once, but it bears repeating here.

Back in the day, on Long Island we had a wonderful new brother added to our Branch one day, pseudo-named George.  He was a super nice guy, always fun and laughing, and a real joy to be around.  He was meek and joined in on witnessing very well.  He was not all messed up and straining to be positive and renew his mind; he HAD it!  He seemed to be pretty well adjusted BEFORE taking the class, and just jumped in right away as a renewed mind believer.  I wish I had stayed there longer to get to know him better, and regret that I’ve been unable to find him.

George had one good arm and his other was completely withered from birth.  A tiny outline of a baby’s hand with some fingers could be seen protruding a tiny bit from his shoulder. He could hide it easily with a shirt, but in the Summertime we could often plainly see it.  He didn’t try to hide it, and seemed to be quite skilled at living without the arm.  He was active and got around well; an unforgettable guy.

When we would run a PFAL class, just EVERYONE held their breath during the part about the man with the withered hand. We all wanted to see George miraculously healed.  I think he went WoW or maybe in the Corps, but I’m not sure. 

But I do know for sure, that if George had ever gotten that new arm build by a miracle, I would CERTAINLY have heard about it from all my old Long Island friends.  Word about George would have traveled fast, fast, fast.  I think there are still a dozen of us still alive and friends on Facebook.

We did not see any such spectacular miracles. Maybe there were some, but word seemed to not get around much about them if they did happen.

And your point is?

Do you think we don't know people that can't use miracles?

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11 hours ago, Mike said:

From this and many other scriptures (forthcoming), I get the impression that, though God has infinite power, He has limited His use of His power for various reasons, and must work within His own constructed framework. 

I think I understand one of your points – to a degree anyway – what I acknowledge is that God is all-powerful, and that He is limited only by His own designs and purposes – and we should not assume we know all about His designs and purposes. But to say that He “MUST work within His own constructed framework” is to dictate what an all-powerful being can and cannot do.

Imagine a 6-year-old throwing a tantrum at Walmart because Mom won’t let him grab stuff off the shelves and mess with everything – like he does at home. Maybe the kid doesn’t understand something about the ‘all-powerful’ Mom. She’s a single Mom and works online from home. When at home she devotes a lot of her time and energy to online work. Most folks at Walmart will probably think she doesn’t discipline the kid at home…But maybe she’s a great single mom doing the best she can to provide for 2, loves the kid and just makes sure the kid doesn’t burn down the house.

At Walmart – maybe the kid is trying to figure out what the ‘all-powerful’ Mom can and cannot do. In this silly parenting metaphor, to the kid the mom is like a god. At 6-years-old maybe he doesn’t get that an all-powerful Mom can have different strategies and purposes in different situations – but her love and concern for the kid’s well-being and development doesn’t change – no external force…not even a tantrum throwing 6-year-old can alter mom’s love.

 

Why did God create angels with free will? Why did God create humankind with free will? Why didn’t God immediately fix the rebellion in heaven or the screw up in the Garden of Eden? There’s lots of questions this little kid has. :rolleyes: 

 

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans27  And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who i have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters…Romans 8 NIV

 

 

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love1 Corinthians 13 NIV

 

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