It appears that Brandon very clearly lost the faith he once had. Am curious what he thinks will happen to him after his death? I didn't get to that part if he said something about that. Thx.
Who is Brandon? Is this a political reference? If it is, I certainly don't have a problem with your curiosity. But I would have a problem with you alluding to judgment of a political figure (elected official) in writing on this forum.
Who is Brandon? Is this a political reference? If it is, I certainly don't have a problem with your curiosity. But I would have a problem with you alluding to judgment of a political figure (elected official) in writing on this forum.
Brandon is the Mind Shift pod host. Oldies was replying to Charity’s post referencing Brandon.
Over the past six months, I have struggled quite a bit with my relationship with God for two reasons: seeing the suffering of my 8-year-old grandson with non-verbal autism beginning to have seizures again (as well as other health issues), and the doctrine of the rapture and the great tribulation. As part of this second issue, I have seen a dear brother in Christ become very focused on warning others of the terrible wrath of God that will soon be upon those who are left behind. I won't get into specifics about these two issues right now, but instead of what I've learned in the last week or so.
I began watching videos on the MindShift website. They are done by a man named Brandon who was raised up in a fundamentalist religion and was very active in it for decades as an adult. He no longer believes there is a God and therefore believes that the Bible was written by men alone. He uses a lot of the Bible to show how the Christian god is not a good god. He also talks about how Christians defend these verses to show the opposite - that God is a long-suffering and merciful God.
I have found that what he says makes sense. I am attaching one of his videos about how living a life as a slave to Christ is very similar to what real slaves to real masters here on earth had to suffer and endure. I would really appreciate hearing what you think about this. He covers a lot in 40 minutes so it's not necessary to listen to the whole video to bring up topics for discussion.
All spirit beings believed to exist by man. God, Jesus, Holy, Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer, Watchers, Angels, Demons etc. etc.
There were a few times when I actually thought my non-verbal, autistic grandson may have had a devil spirit(s) because of how physically agitated he would become sometimes and then, especially, when he began to have seizures. The seizures had become myoclonic in nature where his head would jerk severely downwards and forcibly hit whatever was in front of him. He had regular black eyes, bruises, cuts and bumps on his forehead and face.
I've let go of those thoughts since deconverting. Doing so was like coming out of a freakish h..llhole where I feared not being able to cast out a devil spirit from my own grandson and entering a bright and sane place where such thoughts mean nothing because devil spirits are not real - they don't exist! (Since then, my grandson's neurologist changed his meds, and he no longer has those extreme jerks.)
During this time, a friend wanted to encourage me to trust God again and shared how their teenage son prayed for God to remove demons from someone appearing to have a heart attack and the person instantly was delivered of their symptoms. I had no way of knowing if the healing was real or not, but I did know how off-putting the story was to me. It only reinforced my determination to never go back to that "world" again.
I would agree that they are human authors. I differ in viewing them of having a “spark of the divine” in their writings.
I would contend that scripture is Gods intention for humans to connect with that spark for inspiration but was never designed for Pharisee and Scribe exercises in predicting the future or coming up with unfulfillable levels of detail in laws and customs. That would be man’s natural proclivity for controlling things and adding to the narrative.
Others views may vary of course
Checking for understanding. You're saying the spark of the divine in the biblical authors' writings was from God and we can find places where that spark appears because of how they subjectively inspire each of us. Am I paraphrasing you correctly?
I think we all could put some inspirational words down on paper? Some might say they come from meaningful personal experiences, and others may say they were inspired by God - He put the words on their heart to write.
Would the two different origins make any difference to the reader? Should they?
Yes. "God" isn't the only spiritual being that has been purported to exist and spoken about by man so I was thinking it might be good to know (for purposes of this thread only) we agree that no spirits exist?
Is there even a spiritual realm? How would we even know? Wasn't it the unexplained events in the physical realm that gave birth to the earliest Egyptian's mythologies?
Is there even a spiritual realm? How would we even know? Wasn't it the unexplained events in the physical realm that gave birth to the earliest Egyptian's mythologies?
And Greek, Roman, Norse and any other mythologies.
nounA traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society.
Stories around which, for X number of years (sometimes fractions, sometimes whole years) many of us based our values and morals and that which formed the bases of how we made decisions and around which we guided the direction of our lives.
Clearly, there are MANY stories that have formed bases of how societies (and cults) organized individual lives and groups.
I rejoice with you (if you're rejoicing) for the new found freedom that enables or enabled you to view your grandson with more compassion and reality.
I'm also glad there's a place called the Greasespot Cafe allowing you to write and process what you're going through on your path to freedom of mind and heart.
nounA traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society.
Stories around which, for X number of years (sometimes fractions, sometimes whole years) many of us based our values and morals and that which formed the bases of how we made decisions and around which we guided the direction of our lives.
Clearly, there are MANY stories that have formed bases of how societies (and cults) organized individual lives and groups.
I rejoice with you (if you're rejoicing) for the new found freedom that enables or enabled you to view your grandson with more compassion and reality.
I'm also glad there's a place called the Greasespot Cafe allowing you to write and process what you're going through on your path to freedom of mind and heart.
I used to disregard your posts about there being myths in the Bible as simply "inconceivable."
But then, one crack led to another crack and .... then, there was a letting go. Thank you for your reply.
Catchy tune! Speaking of dancing - wasn't this one of the manifestations of the spirit? I'm sure it was...
A not-so-great thought just came to me. The above reference I made about dancing and the manifestation of the spirit had absolutelynothing to do with a certain former twi production. I was thinking purely of the power of music and dance that I felt while watching these two clips.
There were a few times when I actually thought my non-verbal, autistic grandson may have had a devil spirit(s) because of how physically agitated he would become sometimes and then, especially, when he began to have seizures. The seizures had become myoclonic in nature where his head would jerk severely downwards and forcibly hit whatever was in front of him. He had regular black eyes, bruises, cuts and bumps on his forehead and face.
I've let go of those thoughts since deconverting. Doing so was like coming out of a freakish h..llhole where I feared not being able to cast out a devil spirit from my own grandson and entering a bright and sane place where such thoughts mean nothing because devil spirits are not real - they don't exist! (Since then, my grandson's neurologist changed his meds, and he no longer has those extreme jerks.)
During this time, a friend wanted to encourage me to trust God again and shared how their teenage son prayed for God to remove demons from someone appearing to have a heart attack and the person instantly was delivered of their symptoms. I had no way of knowing if the healing was real or not, but I did know how off-putting the story was to me. It only reinforced my determination to never go back to that "world" again.
15 hours ago, Rocky said:
I rejoice with you (if you're rejoicing) for the new found freedom that enables or enabled you to view your grandson with more compassion and reality.
Hi Rocky, I've been thinking a lot about this line you wrote. At first, it seemed as if you misinterpreted what I had said because I've always had great compassion for my grandson's health challenges. But apart from this assumption about you, there was still something really bothering me, and so I googled "is there fear in compassion" and the website below came up.
In it, compassion was defined as having two parts: "Sensitivity to the causes of suffering in one’s self and others” (Part A), combined with the “commitment to try to alleviate and prevent it” (Part B)."
It also said: "However, when there are FBRs (Fears, Blocks & Resistances) regarding giving Compassion to Others, this is often due to fears such as: “I will lose something” / “Others will take advantage of me” / “I cannot tolerate others’ distress”.
And this was exactly the thing that was bothering me. During those times when I thought my grandson might have had a devil spirit, it was very frightening because I didn't "belieeeve" I could cast one out and in that sense, I could not tolerate (handle, help with) his distress. And that's when, I realize now, that although I was with him physically, mentally I was on some fricking Luciferian planet far removed from the earthly reality that a sudden electric surge had disrupted neurons in his brain causing him to have a seizure. With that kind of delusional mindset, I wasn't as effective with the second part of being compassionate as I could have been.
It is very distressing to admit this, but it's important because it's one way that the bible, which teaches there are devil spirits, is harmful.
I'm learning that there are many other biblical teachings that cause harm mentally and emotionally. It isn't just the way twi taught "the word," it was parts of the bible itself. I'm reading a good book right now titled "The God argument : the case against religion and for humanism" by A.C. Grayling.
One last thing, I want to share about the joy that my grandson has brought to my life. His way of being is unique to him and I have come to value every part of him - his way of finding pleasure in certain things, his desire to interact with us, his growth and development, how he loves to have his long hair brushed when he used to hate it. There is so much more I could share, but most of all, I love his smiles. The other day he was laughing with his mouth closed which I think was a new experience for him by the look on his face. You could tell he was enjoying doing it and the longer he did it, the more my husband and I began to laugh out loud with him. He actually had us in stitches before he was finished.
Checking for understanding. You're saying the spark of the divine in the biblical authors' writings was from God and we can find places where that spark appears because of how they subjectively inspire each of us. Am I paraphrasing you correctly?
I think we all could put some inspirational words down on paper? Some might say they come from meaningful personal experiences, and others may say they were inspired by God - He put the words on their heart to write.
Would the two different origins make any difference to the reader? Should they?
Yes this is the dilemma it seems. Is there anything spiritual out there or in there that inspires from the outside? Or the inside?
There is a real challenge here. Mankind needs a muse. People need heroes to inspire them to greater acts.
What is this muse? I view it as a spark of the divine. Where I look for inspiration as there is little of it in the world arising of itself. Only if you condition yourself to look for it.
In your scenario you describe what does it matter whether the inspiration is a new view of your personal experience or that same view possibly introduced by a loving Father?
People will view the words I wrote here as either inspirational or devil spirit inspired depending on their mindset. Or illogical lol.
My inspiration is rejecting the Pharisee approach to controlling things and amassing power and simply looking to the simple truths in writings for inspiration.
A favorite inspirational quote for me about fundamentalist mindset is actually from Ralph Waldo Emerson “a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”. That inspires me almost as much as Jesus words to those hypocrites.
There were a few times when I actually thought my non-verbal, autistic grandson may have had a devil spirit(s) because of how physically agitated he would become sometimes and then, especially, when he began to have seizures. The seizures had become myoclonic in nature where his head would jerk severely downwards and forcibly hit whatever was in front of him. He had regular black eyes, bruises, cuts and bumps on his forehead and face.
I've let go of those thoughts since deconverting. Doing so was like coming out of a freakish h..llhole where I feared not being able to cast out a devil spirit from my own grandson and entering a bright and sane place where such thoughts mean nothing because devil spirits are not real - they don't exist! (Since then, my grandson's neurologist changed his meds, and he no longer has those extreme jerks.)
During this time, a friend wanted to encourage me to trust God again and shared how their teenage son prayed for God to remove demons from someone appearing to have a heart attack and the person instantly was delivered of their symptoms. I had no way of knowing if the healing was real or not, but I did know how off-putting the story was to me. It only reinforced my determination to never go back to that "world" again.
Yeah there’s probably a better way. Non-verbal autism is well known. It seems that non verbal would make it very strong on that spectrum. This is a known mental challenge that is genetic usually and due to missing chemicals in a body that requires treatment and maintenance.
The ignorant have always flocked to superstition to explain away the unexplained.
A native witch doctor with completely different beliefs would possibly come up with the same superstitious conclusion.
All spirit beings believed to exist by man. God, Jesus, Holy, Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer, Watchers, Angels, Demons etc. etc.
Yes this is interesting. It is hard to find a middle ground on this topic. It either progresses to a Dan Brown type novel where you have Franciscan monks vs the Illuminati or the rejecting of anything not observable by your 5 senses.
One angle to this argument or discussion to consider is how does mankind realize the benefit of superior intellect? How is higher reasoning constructed in the philosophical realms? The Greeks had a high degree of superstition even to the point of not allowing unknown gods introduced at Mars hill.
Yes this is the dilemma it seems. Is there anything spiritual out there or in there that inspires from the outside? Or the inside?
I would think no, no, no and no. There's nothing spiritual, no God, no Spirit, no inspiration (in-spirit-action). What is it then? One's own intellect only at work? Luck? Random chance? I don't know.
I was thinking about something else related to the topic. Do our animals have any spiritual perception? Or, using their own intellect think spiritual things are BS?
Yeah there’s probably a better way. Non-verbal autism is well known. It seems that non verbal would make it very strong on that spectrum. This is a known mental challenge that is genetic usually and due to missing chemicals in a body that requires treatment and maintenance.
The ignorant have always flocked to superstition to explain away the unexplained.
A native witch doctor with completely different beliefs would possibly come up with the same superstitious conclusion.
Early blood testing showed my grandson was born with a rare gene deletion which caused him to require life-saving surgery when he was a day old and two subsequent major surgeries to completely correct a physical abnormality. We were told that as he grew older, autism may also be a possibility because of this deletion.
Fundamentalist beliefs can cause people to refuse medical intervention for themselves or their children because it meant doubting god's ability to heal. I knew the physical reasons for my grandson's health issues but still fell a few times for the doctrine that certain illnesses can be caused by devil spirits. Not anymore now.
I knew the physical reasons for my grandson's health issues but still fell a few times for the doctrine that certain illnesses can be caused devil spirits. Not anymore now.
Isn't sociological narrative both powerful and incredibly tricky? I again rejoice with you for the (mental and emotional) work you do to process what you've been learning. I suspect that processing has shown you that what we learned from Wierwille's "ministry/cult had obvious limitations. Your life experience, notably with your precious grandson showed you some of those limitations. My view is that God (or one's imagination of what God is or may be) are FAR bigger than what twi could imagine or bring into manifestation.
I also rejoice in what you've shared about while researching compassion and fear.
Though my challenges aren't the same as your challenges, I remain curious and each day wanting to learn and expand what I can know. I have an 11-year old grandson who recently shared with me that he attends school online. And that he doesn't miss in-person school.
My heart goes out to him and to my daughter's family even though they are reluctant to share the details of my grandson's challenges.
I have, over the course of the last decade, observed my grandson exhibiting intense curiosity about various aspects of life. I have no doubt that my grandson's curiosity is a great gift regardless of the social difficulties he endures.
Anyway, I am so thankful for what you've shared with us on GSC, dear Charity.
Edited by Rocky almost forgot to include the YT link
During this time, a friend wanted to encourage me to trust God again and shared how their teenage son prayed for God to remove demons from someone appearing to have a heart attack and the person instantly was delivered of their symptoms. I had no way of knowing if the healing was real or not, but I did know how off-putting the story was to me. It only reinforced my determination to never go back to that "world" again.
I think what believers don't realize about stories like this is how capricious, whimsical and arbitrary it makes God look. "See, he did it for so and so!" And all it makes us realize is the number of times he did NOT see fit to intervene. He has his reasons. Who are we to question?
Yeah, we have every right to question. We are the recipients of failed promise after failed promise. He's lucky we think he doesn't exist: it's literally his only redeeming quality. Once you've eliminated his existence from consideration, it's impossible to be angry at him. It's impossible to hate him. Suddenly it's just ... the world looks exactly like you would expect the world to look if there were no God.
"I survived a crash that killed three people! Praise God!"
Do people who say such things even hear themselves?
Once you've eliminated his existence from consideration, it's impossible to be angry at him. It's impossible to hate him. Suddenly it's just ... the world looks exactly like you would expect the world to look if there were no God.
"I survived a crash that killed three people! Praise God!"
Do people who say such things even hear themselves?
I was thinking of this a couple of days ago when I realized how in the past 2 weeks, quite a few good things had happened.
After the latest change to my grandson’s meds by his neurologist, his seizures have become less severe and not as frequent so he was able to return to school part time.
Because of his principal’s advocacy, the school board had approved one-to-one support for him. This is a very difficult thing to get.
After graduating from college a year ago and many of his job applications being rejected (as well as a few unsuccessful interviews), my oldest grandson who lives with us got a full-time entry job in his field.
I finally received a replacement for a medical device I need that was recalled two years ago due to a risk of causing liver damage.
As a Christian, I would have believed and been thankful that all these blessings were from God. Since deconverting, I'm now simply thankful for the good things life brings our way, sometimes with the help of other people.
And when I learned a couple of days ago I owed over $600.00 in income tax because something I thought I had corrected online apparently didn't go through, once I calmed down, I let it go as .... simply happens in life as well. The point is that it was great not having to concern myself with whether a god was or wasn't looking out for me based on whether I was or wasn't trusting enough in him.
I think what believers don't realize about stories like this is how capricious, whimsical and arbitrary it makes God look. "See, he did it for so and so!" And all it makes us realize is the number of times he did NOT see fit to intervene. He has his reasons. Who are we to question?
The part I found most off-putting to the story I shared was the idea that the 16 year old believed the Lord put on his heart that his mother, who appeared to be having a heart attack, actually had devil spirits and so he asked God to take the demons off of her. As I mentioned, she was instantly healed of her symptoms.
So while my friend shared this experience to encourage me not to give up on such a faithful and powerful God, it actually made me not want to have anything to do with a god who allows devil spirits to roam freely around to cause such fear and suffering in this woman so he could then be called upon to deliver her from them.
I don’t believe my friend thought for a moment that god wouldn’t do a miracle for my grandson’s healing as well. I replied, however, that I had lost my trust in this god who hadn’t showed up for us in quite some time. .
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waysider
Yeah, see. That kinda leaves us between a rock and a hard place. We were either following the teachings of a man with devil spirits or he was wrong about what he taught. That means he could have been
Raf
I consider myself humanist as well. Since there is no hierarchy in humanism, no one really gets to define it. This website gathers various definitions that permit us to ascertain some kind of co
Charity
According to Genesis 1-3, God creates a paradise and many different kinds of awesome life and everything is perfect. What a great God He is. Then everything is corrupted because of one single act of
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Rocky
Who is Brandon? Is this a political reference? If it is, I certainly don't have a problem with your curiosity. But I would have a problem with you alluding to judgment of a political figure (elected official) in writing on this forum.
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Nathan_Jr
Brandon is the Mind Shift pod host. Oldies was replying to Charity’s post referencing Brandon.
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Rocky
Thanks Nathan.
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Charity
There were a few times when I actually thought my non-verbal, autistic grandson may have had a devil spirit(s) because of how physically agitated he would become sometimes and then, especially, when he began to have seizures. The seizures had become myoclonic in nature where his head would jerk severely downwards and forcibly hit whatever was in front of him. He had regular black eyes, bruises, cuts and bumps on his forehead and face.
I've let go of those thoughts since deconverting. Doing so was like coming out of a freakish h..llhole where I feared not being able to cast out a devil spirit from my own grandson and entering a bright and sane place where such thoughts mean nothing because devil spirits are not real - they don't exist! (Since then, my grandson's neurologist changed his meds, and he no longer has those extreme jerks.)
During this time, a friend wanted to encourage me to trust God again and shared how their teenage son prayed for God to remove demons from someone appearing to have a heart attack and the person instantly was delivered of their symptoms. I had no way of knowing if the healing was real or not, but I did know how off-putting the story was to me. It only reinforced my determination to never go back to that "world" again.
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Charity
Checking for understanding. You're saying the spark of the divine in the biblical authors' writings was from God and we can find places where that spark appears because of how they subjectively inspire each of us. Am I paraphrasing you correctly?
I think we all could put some inspirational words down on paper? Some might say they come from meaningful personal experiences, and others may say they were inspired by God - He put the words on their heart to write.
Would the two different origins make any difference to the reader? Should they?
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Charity
Is there even a spiritual realm? How would we even know? Wasn't it the unexplained events in the physical realm that gave birth to the earliest Egyptian's mythologies?
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waysider
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Rocky
And Greek, Roman, Norse and any other mythologies.
Myth
Genesis contains the Judeo-Christian creation myth.
It's all about stories.
Stories around which, for X number of years (sometimes fractions, sometimes whole years) many of us based our values and morals and that which formed the bases of how we made decisions and around which we guided the direction of our lives.
Clearly, there are MANY stories that have formed bases of how societies (and cults) organized individual lives and groups.
I rejoice with you (if you're rejoicing) for the new found freedom that enables or enabled you to view your grandson with more compassion and reality.
I'm also glad there's a place called the Greasespot Cafe allowing you to write and process what you're going through on your path to freedom of mind and heart.
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Rocky
That's the dilemma of the ages for humanity.
IDK if. IDK how we could know with any degree of certainty (oops, "certainty" is all about belief or however, Nathan would spell it)
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Charity
I used to disregard your posts about there being myths in the Bible as simply "inconceivable."
But then, one crack led to another crack and .... then, there was a letting go. Thank you for your reply.
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Charity
Catchy tune! Speaking of dancing - wasn't this one of the manifestations of the spirit? I'm sure it was...
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Charity
A not-so-great thought just came to me.
The above reference I made about dancing and the manifestation of the spirit had absolutely nothing to do with a certain former twi production. I was thinking purely of the power of music and dance that I felt while watching these two clips. 
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Charity
Hi Rocky, I've been thinking a lot about this line you wrote. At first, it seemed as if you misinterpreted what I had said because I've always had great compassion for my grandson's health challenges. But apart from this assumption about you, there was still something really bothering me, and so I googled "is there fear in compassion" and the website below came up.
In it, compassion was defined as having two parts: "Sensitivity to the causes of suffering in one’s self and others” (Part A), combined with the “commitment to try to alleviate and prevent it” (Part B)."
It also said: "However, when there are FBRs (Fears, Blocks & Resistances) regarding giving Compassion to Others, this is often due to fears such as: “I will lose something” / “Others will take advantage of me” / “I cannot tolerate others’ distress”.
And this was exactly the thing that was bothering me. During those times when I thought my grandson might have had a devil spirit, it was very frightening because I didn't "belieeeve" I could cast one out and in that sense, I could not tolerate (handle, help with) his distress. And that's when, I realize now, that although I was with him physically, mentally I was on some fricking Luciferian planet far removed from the earthly reality that a sudden electric surge had disrupted neurons in his brain causing him to have a seizure. With that kind of delusional mindset, I wasn't as effective with the second part of being compassionate as I could have been.
It is very distressing to admit this, but it's important because it's one way that the bible, which teaches there are devil spirits, is harmful.
I'm learning that there are many other biblical teachings that cause harm mentally and emotionally. It isn't just the way twi taught "the word," it was parts of the bible itself. I'm reading a good book right now titled "The God argument : the case against religion and for humanism" by A.C. Grayling.
One last thing, I want to share about the joy that my grandson has brought to my life. His way of being is unique to him and I have come to value every part of him - his way of finding pleasure in certain things, his desire to interact with us, his growth and development, how he loves to have his long hair brushed when he used to hate it. There is so much more I could share, but most of all, I love his smiles. The other day he was laughing with his mouth closed which I think was a new experience for him by the look on his face. You could tell he was enjoying doing it and the longer he did it, the more my husband and I began to laugh out loud with him. He actually had us in stitches
before he was finished.
https://mi-psych.com.au/fears-of-compassion/
Edited by CharityExpressing myself better
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chockfull
Yes this is the dilemma it seems. Is there anything spiritual out there or in there that inspires from the outside? Or the inside?
There is a real challenge here. Mankind needs a muse. People need heroes to inspire them to greater acts.
What is this muse? I view it as a spark of the divine. Where I look for inspiration as there is little of it in the world arising of itself. Only if you condition yourself to look for it.
In your scenario you describe what does it matter whether the inspiration is a new view of your personal experience or that same view possibly introduced by a loving Father?
People will view the words I wrote here as either inspirational or devil spirit inspired depending on their mindset. Or illogical lol.
My inspiration is rejecting the Pharisee approach to controlling things and amassing power and simply looking to the simple truths in writings for inspiration.
A favorite inspirational quote for me about fundamentalist mindset is actually from Ralph Waldo Emerson “a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”. That inspires me almost as much as Jesus words to those hypocrites.
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chockfull
Yeah there’s probably a better way. Non-verbal autism is well known. It seems that non verbal would make it very strong on that spectrum. This is a known mental challenge that is genetic usually and due to missing chemicals in a body that requires treatment and maintenance.
The ignorant have always flocked to superstition to explain away the unexplained.
A native witch doctor with completely different beliefs would possibly come up with the same superstitious conclusion.
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chockfull
Yes this is interesting. It is hard to find a middle ground on this topic. It either progresses to a Dan Brown type novel where you have Franciscan monks vs the Illuminati or the rejecting of anything not observable by your 5 senses.
One angle to this argument or discussion to consider is how does mankind realize the benefit of superior intellect? How is higher reasoning constructed in the philosophical realms? The Greeks had a high degree of superstition even to the point of not allowing unknown gods introduced at Mars hill.
Anyway no answers but interesting discussion.
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oldiesman
I would think no, no, no and no. There's nothing spiritual, no God, no Spirit, no inspiration (in-spirit-action). What is it then? One's own intellect only at work? Luck? Random chance? I don't know.
Edited by oldiesmanafterthought
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oldiesman
I was thinking about something else related to the topic. Do our animals have any spiritual perception? Or, using their own intellect think spiritual things are BS?
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Charity
Early blood testing showed my grandson was born with a rare gene deletion which caused him to require life-saving surgery when he was a day old and two subsequent major surgeries to completely correct a physical abnormality. We were told that as he grew older, autism may also be a possibility because of this deletion.
Fundamentalist beliefs can cause people to refuse medical intervention for themselves or their children because it meant doubting god's ability to heal. I knew the physical reasons for my grandson's health issues but still fell a few times for the doctrine that certain illnesses can be caused by devil spirits. Not anymore now.
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Rocky
Isn't sociological narrative both powerful and incredibly tricky? I again rejoice with you for the (mental and emotional) work you do to process what you've been learning. I suspect that processing has shown you that what we learned from Wierwille's "ministry/cult had obvious limitations. Your life experience, notably with your precious grandson showed you some of those limitations. My view is that God (or one's imagination of what God is or may be) are FAR bigger than what twi could imagine or bring into manifestation.
I also rejoice in what you've shared about while researching compassion and fear.
Though my challenges aren't the same as your challenges, I remain curious and each day wanting to learn and expand what I can know. I have an 11-year old grandson who recently shared with me that he attends school online. And that he doesn't miss in-person school.
My heart goes out to him and to my daughter's family even though they are reluctant to share the details of my grandson's challenges.
I have, over the course of the last decade, observed my grandson exhibiting intense curiosity about various aspects of life. I have no doubt that my grandson's curiosity is a great gift regardless of the social difficulties he endures.
Anyway, I am so thankful for what you've shared with us on GSC, dear Charity.
Edited by Rockyalmost forgot to include the YT link
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Raf
I think what believers don't realize about stories like this is how capricious, whimsical and arbitrary it makes God look. "See, he did it for so and so!" And all it makes us realize is the number of times he did NOT see fit to intervene. He has his reasons. Who are we to question?
Yeah, we have every right to question. We are the recipients of failed promise after failed promise. He's lucky we think he doesn't exist: it's literally his only redeeming quality. Once you've eliminated his existence from consideration, it's impossible to be angry at him. It's impossible to hate him. Suddenly it's just ... the world looks exactly like you would expect the world to look if there were no God.
"I survived a crash that killed three people! Praise God!"
Do people who say such things even hear themselves?
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Nathan_Jr
Mmmph
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Charity
I was thinking of this a couple of days ago when I realized how in the past 2 weeks, quite a few good things had happened.
After the latest change to my grandson’s meds by his neurologist, his seizures have become less severe and not as frequent so he was able to return to school part time.
Because of his principal’s advocacy, the school board had approved one-to-one support for him. This is a very difficult thing to get.
After graduating from college a year ago and many of his job applications being rejected (as well as a few unsuccessful interviews), my oldest grandson who lives with us got a full-time entry job in his field.
I finally received a replacement for a medical device I need that was recalled two years ago due to a risk of causing liver damage.
As a Christian, I would have believed and been thankful that all these blessings were from God. Since deconverting, I'm now simply thankful for the good things life brings our way, sometimes with the help of other people.
And when I learned a couple of days ago I owed over $600.00 in income tax because something I thought I had corrected online apparently didn't go through, once I calmed down, I let it go as .... simply happens in life as well. The point is that it was great not having to concern myself with whether a god was or wasn't looking out for me based on whether I was or wasn't trusting enough in him.
Edited by CharityLink to comment
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Charity
The part I found most off-putting to the story I shared was the idea that the 16 year old believed the Lord put on his heart that his mother, who appeared to be having a heart attack, actually had devil spirits and so he asked God to take the demons off of her. As I mentioned, she was instantly healed of her symptoms.
So while my friend shared this experience to encourage me not to give up on such a faithful and powerful God, it actually made me not want to have anything to do with a god who allows devil spirits to roam freely around to cause such fear and suffering in this woman so he could then be called upon to deliver her from them.
I don’t believe my friend thought for a moment that god wouldn’t do a miracle for my grandson’s healing as well. I replied, however, that I had lost my trust in this god who hadn’t showed up for us in quite some time. .
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