When I signed up for the corps program, there was NOTHING IN WRITING about a lifetime commitment to twi. I never made THAT commitment. Had there been even the slightest hint about this.....I WOULD NEVER HAVE GONE CORPS.
Just a general observation, but being a way corps sponsor for many years, I never would have given folks a dime unless they took their corps commitment very seriously and were going to stand moving the word for many years to come.
Think about it. Why would someone shell out their hard earned money sponsoring someone for the corps, unless they thought that person was going to make a lifetime commitment to the movement of the word, thereby utilizing the corps sponsor's money most wisely.
Doesn't make all that much sense that folks who went corps, didn't think it was a lifetime commitment. What else would it be? Why go thru all that intense training and b.s. so that you can throw it all away when you graduated?
They didn't have to give you a paper in writing to sign, for you to know it was a lifetime commitment.
God's spiritual elite don't go thru the program and quit it and do their own thing.
Of course, if you paid your own way, I suppose you could do what you wanted with the training after you graduated.
But I'd wager that spiritual partners expected more.
Just a general observation, but being a way corps sponsor for many years, I never would have given folks a dime unless they took their corps commitment very seriously and were going to stand moving the word for many years to come.
I kind of see your point. I also sponsored several folks.
I think the real point is where the upper ups associated some kind of commitment to GOD being the same as a lifetime commitment to the MINISTRY- come "hell or high water"- well, looks like both of those "came".. The idea that God is supposed to BE the ministry.. seems pretty off kilter to me.
I kind of see Skyrider's point- this "lifetime of commitment to the ministry that taught you da verd" was a rather short leash, indeed- people are not dogs- shouldn't treat them like that. Come to think of it, most people treat their dogs better-
I doubt many people went into the Way Corps with the intention of walking away the day after graduation. I'm sure that a lifetime committment to God was what many Corps made before ever setting foot at a "root locale". But a lifetime committment to moving every three years? A lifetime committment to being in a program?
I certianly didn't expect it of the people I sponsored.
Just a general observation, but being a way corps sponsor for many years, I never would have given folks a dime unless they took their corps commitment very seriously and were going to stand moving the word for many years to come.
Think about it. Why would someone shell out their hard earned money sponsoring someone for the corps, unless they thought that person was going to make a lifetime commitment to the movement of the word, thereby utilizing the corps sponsor's money most wisely.
OM.....yeah, I see your point.
For the record.......I didn't have sponsors. Prayer partners, yes I had those......but financially, I paid all of it
I doubt many people went into the Way Corps with the intention of walking away the day after graduation. I'm sure that a lifetime committment to God was what many Corps made before ever setting foot at a "root locale". But a lifetime committment to moving every three years? A lifetime committment to being in a program?
Oak.....I'd agree with that!
Plus......TWI PLAYS FAVORITES! Why doesn't Joe Coultxr GO OUT AND MOVE THE WORD???? Why doesn't John Lindxr put away his clock pistol and GO MOVE THE WORD????? Why doesn't Donna Martindale get off her foot and GO DO SOMETHING?????
Some of these "trained people" have been sitting in their corporate offices at hq for 30 friggin years!!!
I kind of see Skyrider's point- this "lifetime of commitment to the ministry that taught you da verd" was a rather short leash, indeed- people are not dogs- shouldn't treat them like that. Come to think of it, most people treat their dogs better-
Mr. H.....thanks. And one more point.........LOTS OF US CORPS WENT OUT AND DID OUR BEST FOR GOD......all the while wierwille and martindale and others (??) CAN'T KEEP THEIR DXCKS IN THEIR PANTS!!!!
Let me say it ONE MORE TIME......I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR WIERWILLE OR MARTINDALE...... NONE! They were/are deceivers of the worst kind.....and ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing. Their "stand for God" sickens me!! And, as I stand on the truth of the scriptures....I stand in good stead. Those guys lost their salted commitment......THEY WALKED AWAY AND WERE A DISGRACE TO GOD.
And yes, I'm telling you how I realllllllllllly feel.
And.....when we were taught Ephesians these mogs taught us how God EMPHASIZES the doctrine and practice in equal proportion. Without practical application, it ain't nothing.
Also....the gift ministries are ON THE PRACTICAL SIDE (ephesians 4) to show God's people how to walk the talk, how to live above the world.
Sure, we all sin....I've sinned and come short of the glory of God. bUT this is far beyond bad judgment and little mistakes!! C'mon, get real.....
What wierwille & martindale have done to my corps sisters is CRIMINAL.
Just a general observation, but being a way corps sponsor for many years, I never would have given folks a dime unless they took their corps commitment very seriously and were going to stand moving the word for many years to come.
OM......"for many years to come"..........HOW MANY is that????????
After graduation, I stayed committed for 17 years......is that enuff yrs???
And, what are the corps supposed to do when the mogs add enough private interpretation to sink a ship? And, I don't even have to bring up their walking uprightly. No wonder wierwille was wishing on his deathbed to have LIVED holy and acceptable unto HIM.
Oldies, I was committed to God long before I went into the Corps. I signed up for Recognized Family Corps because I wanted the in-depth knowledge that the Corps was supposedly being taught, before my husband and I were to join Staff. We were accepted into the Corps on that basis. I still have a Recognized Corps certificate to prove it.
Long after our in-res year, a couple of Corps leaders tried to explain to me that I had made a lifetime commitment to the Corps program -- to submit to evaluations, and go to any Corps meetings that were required. Silly me for requiring them to honor their agreement with me.
I am just as committed to doing good and respecting God as I ever was, I just don't express it in the same way that I did while in TWI.
I agree with Oldiesman, the purpose of going in the Way Corps was to receive training towards a "lifetime of service".
I think a lot of us clearly had it in mind that meant service, of some kind, through activity, of some kind, with the Way International of New Knoxville. It took me my first year in residence ini 73-74 to realize that wasn't going to happen.
I ended up having an interim year and it was that year, going over the teaching series we'd had on the Itineraries of Paul and Early Church History and Timothy, that I realized in a kind of "ah ha!" moment that the Way International that I was in then wasn't going to endure for my whole lifetime. Nothing heavy, no lightning bolts, I just realized how temporal everything we were doing was and that inevitably all of the things that would occur in the natural progression of our lives was going to reshape the Way of that day in to something different down the line. It would have to change and it would be good that it would, bad if it didn't.
I didn't expect things to go the way they did but it hit me that after VPW died, which he would have to of course at some point, we'd be on our own. At the time my life very much revolved around VPW and the Way Corps program. I just realized that someday it wouldn't. I felt fine about a lot of things after that even though it was still a struggle at times. I was perfectly willing to deal with certain kinds of things that weren't ideal, knowing that "leaving" at some point wouldn't be the end of the world or my "committment" - my committment couldn't get sidetracked in to relying on the day to day stuff that was inevitably going to change whether I liked it or not. In fact, leaving the program as I knew it was more likely than it staying the same till I was 70 or something.
When I was 22, I thought I knew what that meant. As far as what I could see in front of me and for the future, that's exactly what it meant.
Way Corps discussions always contained a lot of the word "committment", as if to a specific activity or function, like a job. But that only a part of it. The investment people like Oldiesman put in people like me will always be appreciated because the opportunity was for personal development and growth. And look at us here and in whatever capacities people are in now in their lives - in a very unexpected way you have life as we knew it serving life as we now know it.
I was 19 years old when I went into the way corps. I had absolutely no clue what I was doing. I had been through 3 years of college, and had an *aha* moment, when I felt like I was wasting my time and my parents money.
My take on it nowadays, is, I went off to college too young. :D-->
Socks, I felt the same way you did. That what I was doing was maybe not what I would be doing for the rest of my life, but at the time, it was where I needed to be. I knew it wouldn't last, in my heart of hearts. :(-->
But I still feel I'm a better human for having gone through what I did. Maybe it's pure ego, maybe it's just wanting to think I'm a better person than I am, I don't know.
Don't totally give up on being a minister type person. There is great need all around. It's really true what we were taught about a man's gift making room.
I don't mean to preach, just encourage you. ;)--> You can still do what you've always wanted to.
OM, what I think Skyrider is alluding to is that the Way Corps "commitment" we originally made became a
"we own you and you WILL do what we say for the rest of your lives" commitment.
And if you didn't like it then you were dropped from the Corps if not kicked out all together from TWI. That's pure BS.
Orignally back when larger groups of us were going into the Corps by the hundreds (I was in the 7th, I believe Sky was in the 9th) it was not implied that there would be this "dog soldier leash" around your life after you graduated. Only much later did this become specifically stated.
Heck I remember LCM stating one evening at a Coprs meeting in Emporia .... "not all of you can become branch leaders. Many of you need to go out and get jobs and careers and go to college."
Well some of us did. Later we were resented for it. Yes it was implied that once Corps always Corps. No prob. Think Marine Corps. You have had the training and served your country and now you serve in society as a better man for it.
It was more promoted as another program like WOW or other such ministry commitments. A Wow Vet was not under this short leash and control, for example to move every three years and such. Yet he is still a WOw Vet. I still have one of the old Corps Vet tee shirts which I would bet they discontinued in latter years.
A lifetime of Christian service? No prob.... Still doing that best I can. A lifetime of volunteer enslavement on a dog's leash.
But I still feel I'm a better human for having gone through what I did. Maybe it's pure ego, maybe it's just wanting to think I'm a better person than I am, I don't know.
You are ex10. You are so wonderful, Sky you are. We all are. We're so wonderful that there's only one of us, now and forever. You're the only one of you the world gets, after that, no more like you again, ever. Just realizing that makes it easier to understand why a God would allow our lives to be and go on and on. I really do think that God must see us as so much more than we allow for, every one of us.
Heck I remember LCM stating one evening at a Coprs meeting in Emporia .... "not all of you can become branch leaders. Many of you need to go out and get jobs and careers and go to college."
Well some of us did. Later we were resented for it. Yes it was implied that once Corps always Corps. No prob. Think Marine Corps. You have had the training and served your country and now you serve in society as a better man for it.
igotout......yeah, I remember LCM stating this and Don promoting word in business and that each one of us needed to find our niche in life. Back in the 70s, wayworld was totally different......until it changed around 1980/81 with the dog soldier stuff.
Guess I never gave my core allegiance to twi.......never. Sure I respected the teachings, else I'd never have stayed so long. But in my mind........the life of Jesus, and Paul, and Peter, and Silas, and Barnabus, and others in the new testament were my sterling examples of God's men. Course the old testament men and women were beyond what I could even fathom.
Even in the 70s, I saw wierwille waver in decision-making. I saw him in a fit of rage many times, fits that were unnecessary. Each time, my respect for him lessened....and the wannabe-wierwilles that lapped up his every word and fart. It sickened me. I could see the hypocrisy creeping through twi.
And yes.......I AM BEGINNING TO FINALLY SEE that this corps experience made me better and stronger. I signed on the line for God. Period. Maybe I was totally naive, but I had pure motives to help and give and minister. And, I've met hundreds of corps who were doing the same.
I AM BEGINNING TO FINALLY SEE that this corps experience made me better and stronger. I signed on the line for God. Period. Maybe I was totally naive, but I had pure motives to help and give and minister. And, I've met hundreds of corps who were doing the same.
Aw, Socks, that is so beautiful! I'm still thinking about what that means--possibly different things to each of us.
And yes.......I AM BEGINNING TO FINALLY SEE that this corps experience made me better and stronger. I signed on the line for God. Period. Maybe I was totally naive, but I had pure motives to help and give and minister. And, I've met hundreds of corps who were doing the same.
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Ham
Doesn't suprise me. It took them over sixty years to figure out that beastiality wasn't all it was cracked up to be..
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oldiesman
Just a general observation, but being a way corps sponsor for many years, I never would have given folks a dime unless they took their corps commitment very seriously and were going to stand moving the word for many years to come.
Think about it. Why would someone shell out their hard earned money sponsoring someone for the corps, unless they thought that person was going to make a lifetime commitment to the movement of the word, thereby utilizing the corps sponsor's money most wisely.
Doesn't make all that much sense that folks who went corps, didn't think it was a lifetime commitment. What else would it be? Why go thru all that intense training and b.s. so that you can throw it all away when you graduated?
They didn't have to give you a paper in writing to sign, for you to know it was a lifetime commitment.
God's spiritual elite don't go thru the program and quit it and do their own thing.
Of course, if you paid your own way, I suppose you could do what you wanted with the training after you graduated.
But I'd wager that spiritual partners expected more.
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Ham
I kind of see your point. I also sponsored several folks.
I think the real point is where the upper ups associated some kind of commitment to GOD being the same as a lifetime commitment to the MINISTRY- come "hell or high water"- well, looks like both of those "came".. The idea that God is supposed to BE the ministry.. seems pretty off kilter to me.
I kind of see Skyrider's point- this "lifetime of commitment to the ministry that taught you da verd" was a rather short leash, indeed- people are not dogs- shouldn't treat them like that. Come to think of it, most people treat their dogs better-
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Oakspear
I doubt many people went into the Way Corps with the intention of walking away the day after graduation. I'm sure that a lifetime committment to God was what many Corps made before ever setting foot at a "root locale". But a lifetime committment to moving every three years? A lifetime committment to being in a program?
I certianly didn't expect it of the people I sponsored.
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skyrider
OM.....yeah, I see your point.
For the record.......I didn't have sponsors. Prayer partners, yes I had those......but financially, I paid all of it
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skyrider
Oak.....I'd agree with that!
Plus......TWI PLAYS FAVORITES! Why doesn't Joe Coultxr GO OUT AND MOVE THE WORD???? Why doesn't John Lindxr put away his clock pistol and GO MOVE THE WORD????? Why doesn't Donna Martindale get off her foot and GO DO SOMETHING?????
Some of these "trained people" have been sitting in their corporate offices at hq for 30 friggin years!!!
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outandabout
Yee gads, moving every three years!! forgot about that one!
During the last 6 years in TWI, I got out of that one by being inconsequential.
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skyrider
Mr. H.....thanks. And one more point.........LOTS OF US CORPS WENT OUT AND DID OUR BEST FOR GOD......all the while wierwille and martindale and others (??) CAN'T KEEP THEIR DXCKS IN THEIR PANTS!!!!
Let me say it ONE MORE TIME......I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR WIERWILLE OR MARTINDALE...... NONE! They were/are deceivers of the worst kind.....and ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing. Their "stand for God" sickens me!! And, as I stand on the truth of the scriptures....I stand in good stead. Those guys lost their salted commitment......THEY WALKED AWAY AND WERE A DISGRACE TO GOD.
And yes, I'm telling you how I realllllllllllly feel.
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skyrider
And.....when we were taught Ephesians these mogs taught us how God EMPHASIZES the doctrine and practice in equal proportion. Without practical application, it ain't nothing.
Also....the gift ministries are ON THE PRACTICAL SIDE (ephesians 4) to show God's people how to walk the talk, how to live above the world.
Sure, we all sin....I've sinned and come short of the glory of God. bUT this is far beyond bad judgment and little mistakes!! C'mon, get real.....
What wierwille & martindale have done to my corps sisters is CRIMINAL.
Damn straight!
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skyrider
OM......"for many years to come"..........HOW MANY is that????????
After graduation, I stayed committed for 17 years......is that enuff yrs???
And, what are the corps supposed to do when the mogs add enough private interpretation to sink a ship? And, I don't even have to bring up their walking uprightly. No wonder wierwille was wishing on his deathbed to have LIVED holy and acceptable unto HIM.
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skyrider
Okay.....I'm done talking.
For now.
:D-->
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Oakspear
Giving Corps sponsorship gave what rights over the sponsored?
--> You had no right to expect anything other than what was agreed to.
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shazdancer
Oldies, I was committed to God long before I went into the Corps. I signed up for Recognized Family Corps because I wanted the in-depth knowledge that the Corps was supposedly being taught, before my husband and I were to join Staff. We were accepted into the Corps on that basis. I still have a Recognized Corps certificate to prove it.
Long after our in-res year, a couple of Corps leaders tried to explain to me that I had made a lifetime commitment to the Corps program -- to submit to evaluations, and go to any Corps meetings that were required. Silly me for requiring them to honor their agreement with me.
I am just as committed to doing good and respecting God as I ever was, I just don't express it in the same way that I did while in TWI.
Ya wanna sponsor me?
:D-->
Shaz
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socks
I agree with Oldiesman, the purpose of going in the Way Corps was to receive training towards a "lifetime of service".
I think a lot of us clearly had it in mind that meant service, of some kind, through activity, of some kind, with the Way International of New Knoxville. It took me my first year in residence ini 73-74 to realize that wasn't going to happen.
I ended up having an interim year and it was that year, going over the teaching series we'd had on the Itineraries of Paul and Early Church History and Timothy, that I realized in a kind of "ah ha!" moment that the Way International that I was in then wasn't going to endure for my whole lifetime. Nothing heavy, no lightning bolts, I just realized how temporal everything we were doing was and that inevitably all of the things that would occur in the natural progression of our lives was going to reshape the Way of that day in to something different down the line. It would have to change and it would be good that it would, bad if it didn't.
I didn't expect things to go the way they did but it hit me that after VPW died, which he would have to of course at some point, we'd be on our own. At the time my life very much revolved around VPW and the Way Corps program. I just realized that someday it wouldn't. I felt fine about a lot of things after that even though it was still a struggle at times. I was perfectly willing to deal with certain kinds of things that weren't ideal, knowing that "leaving" at some point wouldn't be the end of the world or my "committment" - my committment couldn't get sidetracked in to relying on the day to day stuff that was inevitably going to change whether I liked it or not. In fact, leaving the program as I knew it was more likely than it staying the same till I was 70 or something.
When I was 22, I thought I knew what that meant. As far as what I could see in front of me and for the future, that's exactly what it meant.
Way Corps discussions always contained a lot of the word "committment", as if to a specific activity or function, like a job. But that only a part of it. The investment people like Oldiesman put in people like me will always be appreciated because the opportunity was for personal development and growth. And look at us here and in whatever capacities people are in now in their lives - in a very unexpected way you have life as we knew it serving life as we now know it.
Weird. Weird but interesting.
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ex10
I was 19 years old when I went into the way corps. I had absolutely no clue what I was doing. I had been through 3 years of college, and had an *aha* moment, when I felt like I was wasting my time and my parents money.
My take on it nowadays, is, I went off to college too young.
:D-->
Socks, I felt the same way you did. That what I was doing was maybe not what I would be doing for the rest of my life, but at the time, it was where I needed to be. I knew it wouldn't last, in my heart of hearts.
:(-->
But I still feel I'm a better human for having gone through what I did. Maybe it's pure ego, maybe it's just wanting to think I'm a better person than I am, I don't know.
But somehow, I'm at peace with it all.
:)-->
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Jim
A short leash with a prong collar for apprentice corps at HQ. Or so it seemed to me...
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ex10
oh and sky
Don't totally give up on being a minister type person. There is great need all around. It's really true what we were taught about a man's gift making room.
I don't mean to preach, just encourage you.
;)--> You can still do what you've always wanted to.
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igotout
OM, what I think Skyrider is alluding to is that the Way Corps "commitment" we originally made became a
"we own you and you WILL do what we say for the rest of your lives" commitment.
And if you didn't like it then you were dropped from the Corps if not kicked out all together from TWI. That's pure BS.
Orignally back when larger groups of us were going into the Corps by the hundreds (I was in the 7th, I believe Sky was in the 9th) it was not implied that there would be this "dog soldier leash" around your life after you graduated. Only much later did this become specifically stated.
Heck I remember LCM stating one evening at a Coprs meeting in Emporia .... "not all of you can become branch leaders. Many of you need to go out and get jobs and careers and go to college."
Well some of us did. Later we were resented for it. Yes it was implied that once Corps always Corps. No prob. Think Marine Corps. You have had the training and served your country and now you serve in society as a better man for it.
It was more promoted as another program like WOW or other such ministry commitments. A Wow Vet was not under this short leash and control, for example to move every three years and such. Yet he is still a WOw Vet. I still have one of the old Corps Vet tee shirts which I would bet they discontinued in latter years.
A lifetime of Christian service? No prob.... Still doing that best I can. A lifetime of volunteer enslavement on a dog's leash.
No way, Rosie!
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socks
You are ex10. You are so wonderful, Sky you are. We all are. We're so wonderful that there's only one of us, now and forever. You're the only one of you the world gets, after that, no more like you again, ever. Just realizing that makes it easier to understand why a God would allow our lives to be and go on and on. I really do think that God must see us as so much more than we allow for, every one of us.
But even a little bit is nice.
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skyrider
igotout......yeah, I remember LCM stating this and Don promoting word in business and that each one of us needed to find our niche in life. Back in the 70s, wayworld was totally different......until it changed around 1980/81 with the dog soldier stuff.
Guess I never gave my core allegiance to twi.......never. Sure I respected the teachings, else I'd never have stayed so long. But in my mind........the life of Jesus, and Paul, and Peter, and Silas, and Barnabus, and others in the new testament were my sterling examples of God's men. Course the old testament men and women were beyond what I could even fathom.
Even in the 70s, I saw wierwille waver in decision-making. I saw him in a fit of rage many times, fits that were unnecessary. Each time, my respect for him lessened....and the wannabe-wierwilles that lapped up his every word and fart. It sickened me. I could see the hypocrisy creeping through twi.
And yes.......I AM BEGINNING TO FINALLY SEE that this corps experience made me better and stronger. I signed on the line for God. Period. Maybe I was totally naive, but I had pure motives to help and give and minister. And, I've met hundreds of corps who were doing the same.
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waterbuffalo
Edited by WB because of double posting. Yikes!
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waterbuffalo
Aw, Socks, that is so beautiful! I'm still thinking about what that means--possibly different things to each of us.
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waterbuffalo
Yeah Socks, me too.
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Ham
Very interesting.. short leash. How about just being a PFAL grad? Some here would stick you on a VERY short leash if was possible.
The eternal working, reworking, etc, etc.
Feels good not to be wearing that sucker anymore.
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