Actually, that's kinda what the positions in the picture suggested to me, also. Either that, or they were playing, "Pull my finger...no, pull my finger...no, pull my fingaaaaaaaAAAAAAHHHHHH!"
But I thought, "Nobody else in this refined, genteel discussion group would see that perspective."
Even if the subject matter in WAP wasn't way off the charts weird, Craig's method of teaching was HIDEOUS. He'd start on a subject, then say, "I'm gonna tell you more about that later." and then go off on some other tangent... When I had to sit thru WAP my second time, I purposely listened to see how often he actually DID "tell us more about it" later on and it was almost NEVER.
Disjointed, confronting, topics way, way, way over the head of any newbies. In fact, the newbies we had were 2 kids of leadership, and an adult woman who spent the whole class telling me how confused and disappointed she was, and finished the class only because she'd made the commitment but who was so put off by all the plastic people who were running the thing, she quit coming to fellowships right after the class ended.
Oh, and on that note, when WAP was first introduced, it was only to be made available to folks who were faithfully attending fellowships for a certain period of time (months, then a month, then weeks). But by the time we ran our class (a year or two later) they railroaded this gal into taking it by making all kinds of promises about what she would learn, and then "ran" her through ONE fellowship meeting the night before class was starting just to be able to say she had "attended". So much for standards.
Shuks, maybe you were asleep during that part. He very clearly said that the first sin of mankind was the lesbian encounter Eve had with the Devil. He did teach many times about homosexuality being the lowest of the low (forgetting about VPW's teaching in PFAL regarding no sin being any bigger than another sin).
No one here has said that "eating an apple" was the first sin of mankind, so I don't know where you're coming from. The gist of the comments has been that there is no proof that the first sin was a lesbian encounter. Furthermore, just because some artist painted it that way and just because LCM made illogical leaps of interpretation of some words - that does not mean that he is correct in his assertion that the first sin of mankind was homosexuality.
You don't have to become a scholar, God knows I'm not, but you've mis-read what has been written.
I'm leaning toward the "pull my finger" theory, myself.
I helped with the first couple WAP classes that ran and that happened every time. People got lost by session or day 1. (Whatever they called it.) It is my opinion that a lot of wayfers have been going through the motions for years. The classes are just more of the same. Not really anything to get excited over.
Boring...
Each teen that took it said the same thing. "It was nice." Said while mom and dad were watching. Otherwise, they found every excuse in the world to not retake it. Many parents weren't far behind. And when TWI went to the "live" classes... THis was the "we'll read the syllabus to you and pretend we're teaching" approach. Ugh! They actually tried to play it off as an "idea" they wanted to try. As if it was the first class taught by a human ever. Had nothing to do with the ejected ejaculator being gone. Of course not! Sigh...
Question. If someone reading a syllabus to me is a "live" class, is the videotape version a "dead" class? ;-)
Ok, I think I got it straight now. Because there was a lot of ice in outer space, Eve decided that she liked girls more than guys and she pulled the devils finger in order to illustrate the diabolical methods in which demons can smell up a room. Furthermore, the words spirit and wind are one and the same... indicating that to walk by the spirit is the same as farting into the wind. That would certainly explain the strange smell in the air at Emporia. This is all finally coming together for me.
"Coming from" responding to the possiblility that the homo theory is possible just because L%#*C&*^%M&*% said it. Must have been something that a lot of people would buy into. Right?
Okay, Okay. I admit I snoozed through a lot of it. I don't know about one sin being bigger than another though. It seems to me I might think that someone stealing my cell phone would be less drastic than murdering my child My child could might mean a little more to God.
So, perhaps there is something open for discussion there. I think I can forgive the guy who stole my cell phone. Maybe the measure is the cost spiritually.
Another good example of false twi doctrine. Of course all sins are not the same! Veepee made it up as he went. If all sins are equal, why were there different penalties for different sins in the old testament? A lot of what the cornfield preacher said was totally illogical and was contray to the bible. That's why so many established Christian organizations called us a cult...we were.
SHEESH, Looks like we just barely by the hairs on our chinney chin chin squeeked out of TWI before we HAD to take WAP. But we were told it would cost one of us 200.00 and the other (me) could take it for a mere $150.00. What did they do check us out to see who could pay the most? But ya know maybe I would have liked that class just for the laughing I woulda been doing. its been a long time since I rotflolpip?
What is the greatest sin a person can commit? Remember that? All those x's and X's - and then he turns around and teaches that there IS one big, fat, nasty sin.
The teaching that one sin isn't any worse than another always struck me as odd, because in the next breath, he taught the unforgivable sin.
Which is it? Sins are the same in God's eyes? Or that there's one he won't forgive? Or that if you don't condemn yourself - it isn't sin at all because it's the condemnation that is the sin?
No wonder I'm so confused. I think I'll go and sin some more... oh wait, that's no more... or is it???
Many people believe(d) whatever they were told because "LCM" or "VPW" said so, so it must be true. I'm ashamed that I was one of them.
I've looked and can't find any research from any Biblical scholars who agree with the TWI teaching that the first sin of mankind was a lesbian encounter between Satan and Eve. And even if I did find something, it would not mean that LCM was correct in his assumption.
Do you think that TWI's teaching on this subject is correct, shuks?
I hear what you're saying about "horse sense", but that was UH who said that and it's easily dismissed with "chapter and verse" about any topic where TWI doesn't want you to operate horse sense, such as buying a home, getting a student loan, getting a loan to start your business, marrying someone non-TWI, etc.
I didn't disagree with Martindale's rationale for doing a new class. True or not, much of PFAL was dated, many of the religious doctrines that Wierwille addressed in PFAL were unlnown to folks in the 90's and 00's.
PFAL could have been retaught in a much more exciting and modern format.
WayAP didn't do it.
It was a collection of pitiful attempts at rebuttals of misunderstandings of scientific theories and religious doctrine (or perhaps deliberate strawmen)
And just think! Real soon their will be another foundational class for all the faithful twits to take! I wonder, is there anyone here who will be able to let us know how "great" it is?
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Hope R.
Where do we begin? Those of us who sat through that class a few times still don't get half the stuff LCM was teaching. And it wasn't because he was more spiritual than the rest of us... IMO - it was
Kevlar2000
Actually, that's kinda what the positions in the picture suggested to me, also. Either that, or they were playing, "Pull my finger...no, pull my finger...no, pull my fingaaaaaaaAAAAAAHHHHHH!"
But I thought, "Nobody else in this refined, genteel discussion group would see that perspective."
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TheHighWay
Even if the subject matter in WAP wasn't way off the charts weird, Craig's method of teaching was HIDEOUS. He'd start on a subject, then say, "I'm gonna tell you more about that later." and then go off on some other tangent... When I had to sit thru WAP my second time, I purposely listened to see how often he actually DID "tell us more about it" later on and it was almost NEVER.
Disjointed, confronting, topics way, way, way over the head of any newbies. In fact, the newbies we had were 2 kids of leadership, and an adult woman who spent the whole class telling me how confused and disappointed she was, and finished the class only because she'd made the commitment but who was so put off by all the plastic people who were running the thing, she quit coming to fellowships right after the class ended.
Oh, and on that note, when WAP was first introduced, it was only to be made available to folks who were faithfully attending fellowships for a certain period of time (months, then a month, then weeks). But by the time we ran our class (a year or two later) they railroaded this gal into taking it by making all kinds of promises about what she would learn, and then "ran" her through ONE fellowship meeting the night before class was starting just to be able to say she had "attended". So much for standards.
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Schuks
I don't hink he said just lesbo stuff. It was homo. Maybe you all think he said lesbian 'cause Eve was a girl.
anyway, it's pretty obvious that it was more vile than eating an apple. Well, anyway, I hope I never become a scholar like y'all.
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WaywardWayfer
Shuks, maybe you were asleep during that part. He very clearly said that the first sin of mankind was the lesbian encounter Eve had with the Devil. He did teach many times about homosexuality being the lowest of the low (forgetting about VPW's teaching in PFAL regarding no sin being any bigger than another sin).
No one here has said that "eating an apple" was the first sin of mankind, so I don't know where you're coming from. The gist of the comments has been that there is no proof that the first sin was a lesbian encounter. Furthermore, just because some artist painted it that way and just because LCM made illogical leaps of interpretation of some words - that does not mean that he is correct in his assertion that the first sin of mankind was homosexuality.
You don't have to become a scholar, God knows I'm not, but you've mis-read what has been written.
I'm leaning toward the "pull my finger" theory, myself.
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washingtonweather
yepper he pretty clearly said lesbian.
ww
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JustThinking
Highway,
I helped with the first couple WAP classes that ran and that happened every time. People got lost by session or day 1. (Whatever they called it.) It is my opinion that a lot of wayfers have been going through the motions for years. The classes are just more of the same. Not really anything to get excited over.
Boring...
Each teen that took it said the same thing. "It was nice." Said while mom and dad were watching. Otherwise, they found every excuse in the world to not retake it. Many parents weren't far behind. And when TWI went to the "live" classes... THis was the "we'll read the syllabus to you and pretend we're teaching" approach. Ugh! They actually tried to play it off as an "idea" they wanted to try. As if it was the first class taught by a human ever. Had nothing to do with the ejected ejaculator being gone. Of course not! Sigh...
Question. If someone reading a syllabus to me is a "live" class, is the videotape version a "dead" class? ;-)
JT
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Golfie
Did the WAP teach that the original sin was not about eating the apple on the tree, but about the pear on the ground? (pun intended ;-)
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GrouchoMarxJr
Ok, I think I got it straight now. Because there was a lot of ice in outer space, Eve decided that she liked girls more than guys and she pulled the devils finger in order to illustrate the diabolical methods in which demons can smell up a room. Furthermore, the words spirit and wind are one and the same... indicating that to walk by the spirit is the same as farting into the wind. That would certainly explain the strange smell in the air at Emporia. This is all finally coming together for me.
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Schuks
But does it mean he is not correct?
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Schuks
Dear Wayward,
"Coming from" responding to the possiblility that the homo theory is possible just because L%#*C&*^%M&*% said it. Must have been something that a lot of people would buy into. Right?
Not just Eve.
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Schuks
Golfie: chuckle
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Schuks
Okay, Okay. I admit I snoozed through a lot of it. I don't know about one sin being bigger than another though. It seems to me I might think that someone stealing my cell phone would be less drastic than murdering my child My child could might mean a little more to God.
So, perhaps there is something open for discussion there. I think I can forgive the guy who stole my cell phone. Maybe the measure is the cost spiritually.
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Schuks
Oh ya. Were'nt we taught to have "horse sense".
Horse sense tells me that there are severities of sin. JMO
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GrouchoMarxJr
Another good example of false twi doctrine. Of course all sins are not the same! Veepee made it up as he went. If all sins are equal, why were there different penalties for different sins in the old testament? A lot of what the cornfield preacher said was totally illogical and was contray to the bible. That's why so many established Christian organizations called us a cult...we were.
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wyteduv58
SHEESH, Looks like we just barely by the hairs on our chinney chin chin squeeked out of TWI before we HAD to take WAP. But we were told it would cost one of us 200.00 and the other (me) could take it for a mere $150.00. What did they do check us out to see who could pay the most? But ya know maybe I would have liked that class just for the laughing I woulda been doing. its been a long time since I rotflolpip?
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Hope R.
UH -
What is the greatest sin a person can commit? Remember that? All those x's and X's - and then he turns around and teaches that there IS one big, fat, nasty sin.
The teaching that one sin isn't any worse than another always struck me as odd, because in the next breath, he taught the unforgivable sin.
Which is it? Sins are the same in God's eyes? Or that there's one he won't forgive? Or that if you don't condemn yourself - it isn't sin at all because it's the condemnation that is the sin?
No wonder I'm so confused. I think I'll go and sin some more... oh wait, that's no more... or is it???
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Tom Strange
HopeR, I think it's "go and sin and have s'mores!"
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WaywardWayfer
Many people believe(d) whatever they were told because "LCM" or "VPW" said so, so it must be true. I'm ashamed that I was one of them.
I've looked and can't find any research from any Biblical scholars who agree with the TWI teaching that the first sin of mankind was a lesbian encounter between Satan and Eve. And even if I did find something, it would not mean that LCM was correct in his assumption.
Do you think that TWI's teaching on this subject is correct, shuks?
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oldiesman
I think some sins are worse than others, but I still believe TWI's oft-repeated teaching on forgiveness of sins, from I John.
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
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WaywardWayfer
Shuks?
I hear what you're saying about "horse sense", but that was UH who said that and it's easily dismissed with "chapter and verse" about any topic where TWI doesn't want you to operate horse sense, such as buying a home, getting a student loan, getting a loan to start your business, marrying someone non-TWI, etc.
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WordWolf
Here's a thread about lcm's insipid replacement for pfal.
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likeaneagle
took wap 2x and intermediate and adv.class!!!!!!!!!
threw it all out in the garbage.......no thank you..
I dont want that stuff in my home or head!!!!!!!
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Oakspear
I didn't disagree with Martindale's rationale for doing a new class. True or not, much of PFAL was dated, many of the religious doctrines that Wierwille addressed in PFAL were unlnown to folks in the 90's and 00's.
PFAL could have been retaught in a much more exciting and modern format.
WayAP didn't do it.
It was a collection of pitiful attempts at rebuttals of misunderstandings of scientific theories and religious doctrine (or perhaps deliberate strawmen)
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penguin
And just think! Real soon their will be another foundational class for all the faithful twits to take! I wonder, is there anyone here who will be able to let us know how "great" it is?
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