quote:It was my best friend to whom VP informed her "Hitler had the right idea" about the jews - i.e., get rid of them. She was stunned.
VP was a white supremist.
Sunesis, you're full of crap.
quote:He was a member of the Liberty Lobby. The Liberty Lobby is a front in Washington D.C. for America's white supremicst, conspiracy groups. He got their newsletter, the Spotlight, and called into their "hotlines."
Mark Lane was a lawyer for Willis Carto, the president of Liberty Lobby. (Hunt v. Liberty Lobby). Mr. Lane is Jewish. I suppose he's a white supremecist as well?
quote:Mark Lane was a lawyer for Willis Carto, the president of Liberty Lobby. (Hunt v. Liberty Lobby). Mr. Lane is Jewish. I suppose he's a white supremecist as well?
Nope... just a lawyer for one.
Sunesis, just because OM says it doesn't make it true.
Hey OM, I (and I'm sure several others) can back up everything else Sunesis stated on that post (that wasn't opinion). Why would you think she would post one thing "full of crap", when the rest of her post is true?
While I don't know about that first part (although I have heard that before), the rest of the facts are true.
Whether you like it or not. Whether it tarnishes your image or not.
quote: ...I have heard the allegation, over and over again, that Carto is anti-Semitic and pro-fascist. I have heard the courts solemnly state that since it has been said so often that either each new allegation has lost its sting, or must be true, based upon the "where there is smoke there must be fire" theory. I have also heard the eloquent response by Judge Scalia, then of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, now a justice of the United States Supreme Court, in the Anderson case:
"We are not yet ready to adopt for the law of libel the principle that 10,000 repetitions are as good as the truth. We see nothing to be said for the rule that a conscious, malicious libel is not actionable so long as it has been preceded by earlier assertions of the same untruth."
Setting aside legal consideration and arguments based upon precedent, I can report my own observation. Carto challenges the power structure, the right of financial institutions, unelected by the people, to rule the nation, whatever their religious or political affiliation may be. No shrinking violet, he speaks openly and without euphemisms. On more than one occasion we have spent the evening sipping Blanton's, a fine Kentucky bourbon, exploring the vagaries of world politics and exchanging world views. I have never heard an anti-Semitic expression from him in all these years. I believe that my own life, marked by a struggle against all forms of racism, has created for me adequately sensitized antennae so that if the offense was present, even in latent form, I would have discerned it. ...
quote: Wierwille wasn't a military man bent on removing/destroying the Jewish population.
Wierwille wasn't a military man
Definitely can agree on that he never served at all
bent on removing/destroying the Jewish population.
AS I remember it he taught that the people we call Jews Today weren't really Jews at all-ergo the destroying of the Jewish population wasn't necessary since they no longer existed--handy,No??
"VP was a white supremist. He was a member of the Liberty Lobby. The Liberty Lobby is a front in Washington D.C. for America's white supremicst, conspiracy groups. He got their newsletter, the Spotlight, and called into their "hotlines."
OM's response:
"Mark Lane was a lawyer for Willis Carto, the president of Liberty Lobby. (Hunt v. Liberty Lobby). Mr. Lane is Jewish. I suppose he's a white supremecist as well?"
quote:It was my best friend to whom VP informed her "Hitler had the right idea" about the jews - i.e., get rid of them. She was stunned.
VP was a white supremist.
Sunesis, you're full of crap.
Along with recollections of the work, "Greatest Hoax of the 20th Century" (recommended by some of the seasoned initiates), a copy of "Myth of the Six Million", -lent to me by a Corp person many years ago - grows moldy in my basement as I type this. And a damn good place for it, IMHO.
I wasn't even in the Corp, and yet this type of material reached even as far as me, a regular "twigite" schmuck...
Add to that my own personal recollection of LCM (at an "Advanced Class" in Emporia circ. '85) ranting about modern Jews being as genetically related to Biblical Jews as "monkeys swinging in trees in Africa", - not to overlook the Way's promotion of Arthur Koestler's "Thirteenth Tribe" - demonstrates enough red-flags to me to not so hastily dismiss Sunesis' recollections and experience here. If anything, her experiences further confirm for me what "manifestations" of the Way's anti-semitism I had already personally observed. It's not a stretch at all.
quote:"Did he ask Way Corps folks to do anything he didn't do?" He studied, witnessed, taught, stayed faithful to the word..."
Studied? If you call plagiarizing studying. Okay, a cheap shot. It was clear that he'd read the Bible and thought about it. But he also read a lot of other authors and took their material, even when he didn't completely understand it. And some of his more original material make it clear that he didn't utilize the very "keys to research" that he taught in PFAL.
Witnessed? To whom? He must've convinced some people to leave the organized church and follow him, and he witnessed to a few hippies in Haight-Ashbury. He probably opened his mouth every now and then, but beyond that, I just don't see it. Did he go Lightbearers? Did he go WOW? Yet he demanded that of Corps. Once the money started flowing, he got himself a motorcoach, then a plane, so he never had to run into "unbelievers" at all.
Taught? One thing he did do!
Stayed faithful to the Word? He DID????? ??? Ask his victims their opinion.
I also don't recall VP on Bless Patrol or jogging at 5 a.m. He never hitched halfway across the country to go LEAD. He often ate different food at the head table than the Corps got, and had drinks with his meals. He also kind of broke the two-drink limit on a regular basis.
The more I think about it, the more I find he asked the Corps to do a lot more than he expected of himself. He wanted the Corps to be ready to jump, and he wanted to be the one to tell them to do it.
No Oldies, I am not full of crap. That was VPs quote, straight from the horses mouth. Get over it.
I discussed this also with R.D. He told me VP had him almost believing all jews were "Zionist pigs." VP, as Danny pointed out, did sell those books, I read them. They were on sale in the bookstore for all to read. By the way, guess who publishes them? Again, the Liberty Lobby press. I forget what name it goes by. there's only one place you can get those particular books.
Whether you agree or not, VP was an admirer of Hitler. Whether you agree or not, VP thought Hitler had the right idea concerning the jews. Whether you agree or not, he was a white supremist. One of his top right hand motorcoach driver aides told me he used the "hotline" quite a bit. So did another staffer close to him. I think Liberty Lobby updated the hotline weekly. Deal with it.
Your insults are not welcome. Think before you speak. Just because you don't agree, or your idol VP is not perfect, doesn't mean you need to insult. Get over it.
Sunesis, you ARE full of crap. If you want to view this as insulting, go ahead, because calling VP a white supremecist is insulting to him and to us to knew him. Who are you trying to fool?
True white supremecists are enemies of Christians, because Christians believe in the integration of races. Was twi integrated? of course it was.
If Dr Wierwille really were a white supremecist, he wouldn't have hung around anyone who was non-white.
Your comment is almost as stupid as your statement that E.W. Kenyon was involved in Christian Witchcraft.
Sunesis, you ARE full of crap. If you want to view this as insulting, go ahead, because calling VP a white supremecist is insulting to him and to us to knew him. Who are you trying to fool?
True white supremecists are enemies of Christians, because Christians believe in the integration of races. Was twi integrated? of course it was.
If Dr Wierwille really were a white supremecist, he wouldn't have hung around anyone who was non-white.
Your comment is almost as stupid as your statement that E.W. Kenyon was involved in Christian Witchcraft.
You said, "If Dr [sic] Wierwille really were a white supremecist [sic], he wouldn't have hung around anyone who was non-white."
Sounds like you don't know much about white supremacists.
I also think that Wierwille might have realized that he would have had less chance of getting away with his anti-black sentiments in the late 60's-80's than he would have had with his anti-Semitic beliefs.
Remember in Elena Whiteside's book where Wierwille talks about how he wrestled with prejudice because a black man killed his brother Otto? Well, he may have wrestled, all right, and maybe he lost. Just my speculation, based on the fact that you don't subscribe to anti-black, anti-Jew groups unless you believe in their propaganda.
Does anyone else remember the earliest version of CFS, where every time the black couple was on the screen, VP had to make a comment, like, "Look how bee-YOU-tee-ful that is?" Many of those comments were eventually edited out. It sure sounded like overkill to me. And a smokescreen.
Sorry, Oldies, didn't see a whole lot of African-American faces on the BOT.
quote:Sorry, Oldies, didn't see a whole lot of African-American faces on the BOT.
Shaz, cheap shot.
You and Sunesis and others who falsely accuse Victor Paul of racism, anti-Semitism and White SupremAcy are being abusive with your words. You whine and criticise endlessly about Victor Paul's abuse, but don't see what you are doing.
Oops sorry for the distraction. Continue with your endless morbid spew.
You and Sunesis and others who falsely accuse Victor Paul of racism, anti-Semitism and White SupremAcy are being abusive with your words. You whine and criticise endlessly about Victor Paul's abuse, but don't see what you are doing.
Oops sorry for the distraction. Continue with your endless morbid spew.
quote:"...calling VP a white supremecist is insulting to him and to us to knew him."
Oldies, I submit that you did know know Mr. Wilerwille at all. And my guess is that you spent little if any personal time with him.
What you "know" of Mr. Wierwille is your own fantasy image of him -- not based upon personal experience and knowledge, but rather upon what you want him to have been.
To consider these things to be true about Mr. Wierwille is to consider that many of your own ideas are wrong and is a threat to your fantasy images about VPW and TWI-1.
You are not insulted -- you are threatened with the idea that your belief system is based upon lies and deception and that your hero was not the man you imagine him to have been.
You can't handle the thought of being wrong and your little fantasy world falling apart. You are too invested in it - thus your protest.
4. Presented to us Bob Richardson, the Populist Party (Liberty Lobby) candidate for President that year to come speak for the afternoon at corps week. Richardson actually did quite well in Iowa and some other states that year. Bringing him to the big top took a little bit of clout somewhere along the line.
5. Carried Liberty Lobby books for all to buy in the bookstore. Even the newsmedia had fun with that one
6. Gave us in the 7th corps our very own copy of Liberty Lobby's "The Secret Constitution" - with an offer for us to subscribe too to the Spotlight
7. Owner of tapes re: Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, etc. that he played at the Advanced Class. These tapes were courtesy the Liberty Lobby
8. Stated publically he had hated blacks for years (because one killed his older brother in a hit and run), until Claudette Royal came along - she was good.
9. Stated Hitler "had the right idea" concerning the jews (by the way, my friend was not the only one he mentioned this to)
10. Taught the murder of 6 million jews was inflated, a myth basically (backed up by books he sold in the bookstore), stated its just the jews have the money to keep this all in the media, or else we'd all have forgotten by now (those pesky jews).
11. Stated the Rothschilds and Jewish Bankers started WWII
12. Started the malpack, head for the hills, the country is going to fall, because of "inside information" courtesy the Liberty Lobby.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck...
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
6
16
15
6
Popular Days
May 18
38
May 17
30
May 26
10
May 21
8
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 6 posts
oldiesman 16 posts
JustThinking 15 posts
Tom Strange 6 posts
Popular Days
May 18 2004
38 posts
May 17 2004
30 posts
May 26 2004
10 posts
May 21 2004
8 posts
oldiesman
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
Sunesis, just because OM says it doesn't make it true.
Hey OM, I (and I'm sure several others) can back up everything else Sunesis stated on that post (that wasn't opinion). Why would you think she would post one thing "full of crap", when the rest of her post is true?
While I don't know about that first part (although I have heard that before), the rest of the facts are true.
Whether you like it or not. Whether it tarnishes your image or not.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
From his book Plausible Denial
Pages 123-24
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
I gotta quote that below each of my posts, how do I do that?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i don't know. what does it mean ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
It's food for thought.
Goodnite and have a nice evening...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
okay OM i'm thinking
do you mean you think TWI has power over me ?
because of my "actions"? and what would those be ?
that i post the truth about the kind of person wierwille was ?
--
just guessing what you might have meant by quoting zix and the "food for thought" comment
Link to comment
Share on other sites
templelady
OM,
Wierwille wasn't a military man
Definitely can agree on that he never served at all
bent on removing/destroying the Jewish population.
AS I remember it he taught that the people we call Jews Today weren't really Jews at all-ergo the destroying of the Jewish population wasn't necessary since they no longer existed--handy,No??
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JustThinking
Sunesis said:
"VP was a white supremist. He was a member of the Liberty Lobby. The Liberty Lobby is a front in Washington D.C. for America's white supremicst, conspiracy groups. He got their newsletter, the Spotlight, and called into their "hotlines."
OM's response:
"Mark Lane was a lawyer for Willis Carto, the president of Liberty Lobby. (Hunt v. Liberty Lobby). Mr. Lane is Jewish. I suppose he's a white supremecist as well?"
Whole lot 'o redirectin' goin' on...
Bring up VPW, switch the topic to their lawyer.
Whole lot 'o redirectin' goin' on...
JT
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Usually you drape your denial of others' experiences and memories with "I don't remember it that way", or "that didn't happen to me".
Decided to just get honest this time?
Maybe you just want to sign your posts "I think those who I disagree with are full of crap"Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheInvisibleDan
Along with recollections of the work, "Greatest Hoax of the 20th Century" (recommended by some of the seasoned initiates), a copy of "Myth of the Six Million", -lent to me by a Corp person many years ago - grows moldy in my basement as I type this. And a damn good place for it, IMHO.
I wasn't even in the Corp, and yet this type of material reached even as far as me, a regular "twigite" schmuck...
Add to that my own personal recollection of LCM (at an "Advanced Class" in Emporia circ. '85) ranting about modern Jews being as genetically related to Biblical Jews as "monkeys swinging in trees in Africa", - not to overlook the Way's promotion of Arthur Koestler's "Thirteenth Tribe" - demonstrates enough red-flags to me to not so hastily dismiss Sunesis' recollections and experience here. If anything, her experiences further confirm for me what "manifestations" of the Way's anti-semitism I had already personally observed. It's not a stretch at all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Trefor Heywood
I remember LCM saying at a WOW festival:
"How can we be anti-semitic? There aren't any semites to be anti!"
(the event was being picketed by Jewish groups at the time)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
shazdancer
OM, you said...
Studied? If you call plagiarizing studying. Okay, a cheap shot. It was clear that he'd read the Bible and thought about it. But he also read a lot of other authors and took their material, even when he didn't completely understand it. And some of his more original material make it clear that he didn't utilize the very "keys to research" that he taught in PFAL.Witnessed? To whom? He must've convinced some people to leave the organized church and follow him, and he witnessed to a few hippies in Haight-Ashbury. He probably opened his mouth every now and then, but beyond that, I just don't see it. Did he go Lightbearers? Did he go WOW? Yet he demanded that of Corps. Once the money started flowing, he got himself a motorcoach, then a plane, so he never had to run into "unbelievers" at all.
Taught? One thing he did do!
Stayed faithful to the Word? He DID?????
??? Ask his victims their opinion.
I also don't recall VP on Bless Patrol or jogging at 5 a.m. He never hitched halfway across the country to go LEAD. He often ate different food at the head table than the Corps got, and had drinks with his meals. He also kind of broke the two-drink limit on a regular basis.
The more I think about it, the more I find he asked the Corps to do a lot more than he expected of himself. He wanted the Corps to be ready to jump, and he wanted to be the one to tell them to do it.
Shaz
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sunesis
No Oldies, I am not full of crap. That was VPs quote, straight from the horses mouth. Get over it.
I discussed this also with R.D. He told me VP had him almost believing all jews were "Zionist pigs." VP, as Danny pointed out, did sell those books, I read them. They were on sale in the bookstore for all to read. By the way, guess who publishes them? Again, the Liberty Lobby press. I forget what name it goes by. there's only one place you can get those particular books.
Whether you agree or not, VP was an admirer of Hitler. Whether you agree or not, VP thought Hitler had the right idea concerning the jews. Whether you agree or not, he was a white supremist. One of his top right hand motorcoach driver aides told me he used the "hotline" quite a bit. So did another staffer close to him. I think Liberty Lobby updated the hotline weekly. Deal with it.
Your insults are not welcome. Think before you speak. Just because you don't agree, or your idol VP is not perfect, doesn't mean you need to insult. Get over it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Sunesis, you ARE full of crap. If you want to view this as insulting, go ahead, because calling VP a white supremecist is insulting to him and to us to knew him. Who are you trying to fool?
True white supremecists are enemies of Christians, because Christians believe in the integration of races. Was twi integrated? of course it was.
If Dr Wierwille really were a white supremecist, he wouldn't have hung around anyone who was non-white.
Your comment is almost as stupid as your statement that E.W. Kenyon was involved in Christian Witchcraft.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve!
You must be SO much fun to be around at parties!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
shazdancer
Oldies,
You said, "If Dr [sic] Wierwille really were a white supremecist [sic], he wouldn't have hung around anyone who was non-white."
Sounds like you don't know much about white supremacists.
I also think that Wierwille might have realized that he would have had less chance of getting away with his anti-black sentiments in the late 60's-80's than he would have had with his anti-Semitic beliefs.
Remember in Elena Whiteside's book where Wierwille talks about how he wrestled with prejudice because a black man killed his brother Otto? Well, he may have wrestled, all right, and maybe he lost. Just my speculation, based on the fact that you don't subscribe to anti-black, anti-Jew groups unless you believe in their propaganda.
Does anyone else remember the earliest version of CFS, where every time the black couple was on the screen, VP had to make a comment, like, "Look how bee-YOU-tee-ful that is?" Many of those comments were eventually edited out. It sure sounded like overkill to me. And a smokescreen.
Sorry, Oldies, didn't see a whole lot of African-American faces on the BOT.
Shaz
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i remember that CFS, shaz -- it was weird
and sunesis, i know you are not full of crap
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Shaz, cheap shot.
You and Sunesis and others who falsely accuse Victor Paul of racism, anti-Semitism and White SupremAcy are being abusive with your words. You whine and criticise endlessly about Victor Paul's abuse, but don't see what you are doing.
Oops sorry for the distraction. Continue with your endless morbid spew.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve!
OM, what time of the month is it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Posted by Oldiesman
Oldies, I submit that you did know know Mr. Wilerwille at all. And my guess is that you spent little if any personal time with him.
What you "know" of Mr. Wierwille is your own fantasy image of him -- not based upon personal experience and knowledge, but rather upon what you want him to have been.
To consider these things to be true about Mr. Wierwille is to consider that many of your own ideas are wrong and is a threat to your fantasy images about VPW and TWI-1.
You are not insulted -- you are threatened with the idea that your belief system is based upon lies and deception and that your hero was not the man you imagine him to have been.
You can't handle the thought of being wrong and your little fantasy world falling apart. You are too invested in it - thus your protest.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tomtuttle
Oh SHANTA !!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sunesis
VPW:
1. Affiliated with the Liberty Lobby
2. A subscriber to the Spotlight Magazine
3. A devotee of the Liberty Lobby Hotline
4. Presented to us Bob Richardson, the Populist Party (Liberty Lobby) candidate for President that year to come speak for the afternoon at corps week. Richardson actually did quite well in Iowa and some other states that year. Bringing him to the big top took a little bit of clout somewhere along the line.
5. Carried Liberty Lobby books for all to buy in the bookstore. Even the newsmedia had fun with that one
6. Gave us in the 7th corps our very own copy of Liberty Lobby's "The Secret Constitution" - with an offer for us to subscribe too to the Spotlight
7. Owner of tapes re: Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, etc. that he played at the Advanced Class. These tapes were courtesy the Liberty Lobby
8. Stated publically he had hated blacks for years (because one killed his older brother in a hit and run), until Claudette Royal came along - she was good.
9. Stated Hitler "had the right idea" concerning the jews (by the way, my friend was not the only one he mentioned this to)
10. Taught the murder of 6 million jews was inflated, a myth basically (backed up by books he sold in the bookstore), stated its just the jews have the money to keep this all in the media, or else we'd all have forgotten by now (those pesky jews).
11. Stated the Rothschilds and Jewish Bankers started WWII
12. Started the malpack, head for the hills, the country is going to fall, because of "inside information" courtesy the Liberty Lobby.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.