Outfield, I think that he was such a pervert by the time he made that class....that he had no idea how offensive and wrong that all was.
He kept talking about how beautifully and wonderfully the human body was....and that if we were bothered by watching people having sex...we were just too immature to handle it.
It just bothers me that he was so able to put my conscience and good sense to sleep to the point that I would accept that this was normal or acceptible in any way.
Outfield, I think that he was such a pervert by the time he made that class....that he had no idea how offensive and wrong that all was.
He kept talking about how beautifully and wonderfully the human body was....and that if we were bothered by watching people having sex...we were just too immature to handle it.
It just bothers me that he was so able to put my conscience and good sense to sleep to the point that I would accept that this was normal or acceptible in any way. (End quote)
I was 17 and raised Catholic when I sat thru it, and had nary an idea about such things, except having been abused at 6 by a muckety-muck in our parish. I remember being repulsed, and don't remember much about the CFS "class", except that I survived it and was very glad when it was over.
vp was a pig and this class was just another of his stys
imagine putting 13 and 14 year old kids in this class with adults?
outrageous
i repeat he was nothing less than a pig
anyone haveing anything to do with runnig this "class" would and should be jailed today for showing porno to minors
I agree, CC.
Of course, life was quite different 30 or 35 years ago.
Laws regarding this issue have changed considerably as have public opinions.
Still, the morality of this was essentially the same back then as it is today.
There was no information presented in this class( minus the objectionable material we are referencing) that could not be found in secular, informational materials.
On second thought, this was the only class I recall where Wierwille said God told him the nature of original sin.
He went on to say he had no scriptural proof and that we would have to just take his word for it.
Yikes!---That should have been a massive red flag!!!!!
vp was a pig and this class was just another of his stys
imagine putting 13 and 14 year old kids in this class with adults?
outrageous
i repeat he was nothing less than a pig
anyone haveing anything to do with runnig this "class" would and should be jailed today for showing porno to minors
CC - I rarely post anymore - annoyed too many people but I have to take a small (or perhaps not so small) issue with you on this one. I agree completely that drunk Vic was a pig, molester and many other horrible things. Your posts have always been passionate but level headed - something I appreciate since there are so many hot-heads on GS (good recipes too). But...
...with the number of posts of people all agreeing to having been duped - titles like "Did you buy the farm etc" with the number of people acknowledging how they were sorry for past involvement etc.. the overarching "feel" of GS is a bunch of people who bought into something that they were not ready for nor knew how to manage...
I am somewhat at a loss that after Waysider gave such an apology and admission of shame you would suggest that Waysider should be jailed today (NOT BY NAME I REALIZE - but implicitly in the above text). I will not disagree about the juvenile horror TWI propagated in the least - I agree with you completely but Waysider is not someone I would want jailed - I would want that voice of reason outspoken and free.
I am not posting this to castigate you, insult you or change your views about the pig VPW - just asking you to rethink what that post might mean to Waysider. Nor am I trying to be divisive between you and Waysider. Just trying to remind everyone that a lot of the reason we congregate here is that all of us bought into it to one degree or another - maybe 0.001 degree for some and 99.9 degree for others.
Feel free to flame - but please do not - was only thinking of Waysiders admission here.
Outfield, I think that he was such a pervert by the time he made that class....that he had no idea how offensive and wrong that all was.
He kept talking about how beautifully and wonderfully the human body was....and that if we were bothered by watching people having sex...we were just too immature to handle it.
I have to be honest here. The whole "immaturity" thing kinda didn't bother me. Most likely that was because I was an art student and I had two 6 hour classes every week in which I either drew or painted nude models- one class being an Artistic Anatomy class. So, the whole "beautifully and wonderfully made" aspect made sense to me.
Now on the other hand... the part where VP went through all the slang words... that was odd and over the top, IMO. (I felt that way even then!) The class instructor said that VP had so much love that he was doing something that would embarrass most men his age... but that he didn't want us to be witnessing and be caught off guard... <_<
whatever...
We didn't have any minors in the class- but then again, there weren't any minors in that branch.
Mostly I felt that the class sent very mixed messages. On the one hand, we were taught that sex was for marriage and masturbation was the original sin. On the other hand... it just made us horny as hell!
Those of us who instructed this class or took this class, for the most part thought we were doing the right thing at the time we were doing it. I took it several times, the first at a summer camp type situation where I nearly left the ministry as a result, and had to be reassured by calling my twig leader long distance to have him tell me it was okay. Would he encourage me to stick it out now? I seriously doubt it.
I don't have time for any more. I agree it was really strange. But those were strange times and a lot of strange stuff got labeled exciting truths that required the "renewed mind" to properly understand them.
Undestood dooj, I have studied drawing the naked body as well....but were you drawing engorged penises, were you drawing people who were participating in the act?
Yeah, I know there are stores that make a lot of money selling books magazines and movies...portraying just such things....BUT they are required to rate their store as X... minors are not permitted. Also, when you walk in there...you know what you want...
Couple that with the doggy porn that vpw showed the teenagers and their parents at rome city....I think it was pretty sinister....In hind sight, I think that it was an attempt to make perversion acceptible...make it ok for christians to indulge in this stuff and remain untarnished.
Waysider, that was nice. It wasn`t your fault...we all did some pretty bizarre things because we were told that was what God wanted :(
Undestood dooj, I have studied drawing the naked body as well....but were you drawing engorged penises, were you drawing people who were participating in the act?
No - I was just honestly commenting on my willingness at the time to accept the explanation about being "mature enough to handle" seeing those photos. It didn't bother me to see naked bodies, I did find the human body beautiful (still do). I didn't find that part of the class offensive. I was twenty-something. I'm sure that I'd have a completely different attitude if I saw that class today now that I'm the mother of two young ladies.
I'm not defending the man or the class. I think it created many more problems than it purported to solve.
vp was a pig and this class was just another of his stys
imagine putting 13 and 14 year old kids in this class with adults?
outrageous
i repeat he was nothing less than a pig
anyone haveing anything to do with runnig this "class" would and should be jailed today for showing porno to minors
Um - remember I didn't see any porno when I went. We listened to it over a speaker system - not film. They didn't let minors go in there except me (I was the youngest one). The people coordinating the class had to get my parents to sign a release if I remember correctly. Sort of like when you are in school and they have to get a release for you to watch a film with a higher rating than permited? I was home schooled for some of my life - so I guess my parents thought maybe this would be the closest thing to a sex education class that I could get at the time.
I'm not defending how stupid their class was - or how utterly shovanistic it was - or that it gave me anything in the way of a decent sex education. But jeeze - I think that 13 year olds need to be told sex... if not sooner. It was just from a bad source.
I guess I am a little aggrivated because that would mean my parents needed to be jailed for letting me listen?
I guess my generation is a little more open about sex? I have friends outside twi who think nothing of watching stuff like that together. Although I have never done this myself - I don't really think anything of it either. But then again - they don't have some weird old predator (who is supposed to be a priest) in the room with them saying weird crap either. Creeeepy. I am sorry for you guys that had to watch the pron with that weird old freak.
Undestood dooj, I have studied drawing the naked body as well....but were you drawing engorged penises, were you drawing people who were participating in the act?
Yeah, I know there are stores that make a lot of money selling books magazines and movies...portraying just such things....BUT they are required to rate their store as X... minors are not permitted. Also, when you walk in there...you know what you want...
*won't say much on the subject - but I remember being 13 and filled with hormons. I drew a few things before I went to this class. I still do hehe.* XP
I took the class in a spin-off Wierwille back in the 90's. There was no syllabus and it was just about dating & there was some marriage/sex talk. Basically what I remember is:<BR>*A woman should always look feminine no matter what -- if you are digging ditches wear diamonds.<BR>*Give your husband what he wants when he wants it. (I do have to admit I have heard Dr.Laura say,"Keep a man's belly full & happy in the bedroom and he will never stray.")<BR>*It's okay to sit next to a believer and hold hands or hug -- it doesn't mean anything it's sibling love. (I found this kind of weird -- I'm all for the natural hello/goodbye hug -- but....)<BR>*Date alot,there is no such thing as going "steady" with someone in the word, until you are engaged to be married.<BR>*Kids don't rule -- parents do -- and a couple should be married awhile before having kids as it wasn't God's original plan to have kids.<BR>*Some stuff on the virtuous woman. (be crafty, thrifty (so your husband can take all the $), multi-task, the husband leads the house -- don't question it just SIT for him much.<BR>That's all I can remember thus far. There was some sex talk -- but not anything as graffic as I'm reading on these posts -- it was just general things.<BR>*Oh and never masturbate without your spouse -- that is a HUGE NO NO.
That is definitly NOT the class I took! And I was 15! I can't believe the things they thought a 15 year old should know. I took the CF&S class and The Believer's Family Class.(TBFC was much more mellow sexually). I think alot about TWI and how sexually charged everything was! I mean everything... It is no wonder the way I grew up and so many of my peers did! Wow too much going through my head right now.. maybe I'll finish later...
I go through stages (as many do) about TWI and right now I am at PURE DISGUST!
PTT - wow - didn't know it got to some people like that. I think it didn't bother me much because it seemed like such a far away thing? Maybe if I had been older it would have screwed me up a bit more. Then again - I think I blocked most of it because I was doodling. XP I think the only thing I can remember is laughing at the weird words... or in CMs class I listened a bit - and doodled.
Sometimes I wish I could see these things again - just to see how I would react to them now. Maybe I would be disgusted. Well, actually I know I would be.
Although I still don't think anyone should be locked up for putting the class out.
Understood Nero...I am not objecting to porn per say....It is legal, you can rent it at any video store, purchase magazines ...however...in public anywhere that there are minors apt to see it...it is always covered from view.
That is deemed as appropriate.
For heavens sake, the boobie bungalo is a local attraction that draws the united ire of the local churches etc...I don`t even have a problem with that as a business that people chose to patronize.
It is one thing to chose to view it. It is one thing as a parent to decide what is appropriate for your children to see in regards to their sexual education.
It is quite another , to have this presented in a class purported to be about the christian FAMILY...to have porn sandwitched in to a class that was supposed to teach us how to raise a family GOD`S way.
Maybe since you weren`t married in twi Nero...you didn`t have the opportunity to see the women and men who used this class and the freedom it appeared to offer in Christ as their chance to force their partners into dark perversion.
It is the kind of thing that kind of rung alarm bells as not quite right...but dismissed as a lack of understanding on ones own part....while for others it was the opening needed to indulge in filth and force ones partner to comply by slapping a christian seal of approval.
I just know that what appears innocuous on the surface ...in reality of practice was used to indulge and excuse perversion.
I just wanted to make sure I stated this again - I wasn't defending that horrible monstrosity of a class hehe. I also wasn't defending their use of porn. If they had shown those images to me at that young of an age maybe I would be more offended. I know my parents wouldn't have allowed me to go if there were.
I guess I was just reacting to the people should be locked up thing. I wasn't mad - it just sort of freaked me out to think my parents should be locked away.
When I posted I didn't know other minors had actually seen the video version - PTT just said how she felt and I realized where I might have been wrong - now that would be wrong.
-
I do know what those gals went through - which is why I couldn't bring myself to marry anyone from twi. There might have been a ray of hope (haha no) if the guy was decent and not completely freaking crazy. However, I did see that most of the guys really misused this and you could tell that under the surface their wives were utterly miserable.
I did date one guy in twi once - when I was very young. I was lucky - he was sweet as pie and like me - really wasn't into too much of the weird twi junk. I liked him for his personality - not his super twi powers. His parents were thrown out and I never saw him again. The last I heard he is no longer in himself.
After that though - I never found anyone quite like him in twi. So I just dated people outside.
And I did see how people dated in twi as I got older. It was disgusting to me then. They would demand their girlfriends do things like they owned them. Their girlfriends would go to their house and clean their room and do their laundry out of some weird duty. When they talked to me - they sounded like dolls that were doing their master's bidding - not like loving girlfriends.
The one time that bothered me the most - was when I met a girl that was older than me. She had a boyfriend in twi - she told me that breaking up was fine and dandy when you are dating someone outside of twi - but when you are dating someone in twi it's different. You can't let silly things get in the way. O_o This was her response to him being a complete bastard to her for no reason for the majority of their relationship - I couldn't believe it.
I knew I was way too free spirited to let someone become my dictator - so I dated and married my husband. <3
Thank... goodness...
BUT
If I had been stupid enough to marry someone in twi though - I'd like to think that he would have been more like me. I know I wouldn't have put up with any of that "I own you" crud.
I seem to remember a questionnaire given out either before or after the class. One of tghe questions was "Where do you think sex should be taught: at home, at school. or in church?" (Or words to that effect -- it's been over 25 years since I've seen it.) I thought that in church would be appropriate, at least to supplement what the youngsters would learn at home. I still do, but I would have to scrutinize the teacher a bit more carefully...
I seem to remember a questionnaire given out either before or after the class. One of tghe questions was "Where do you think sex should be taught: at home, at school. or in church?" (Or words to that effect -- it's been over 25 years since I've seen it.) I thought that in church would be appropriate, at least to supplement what the youngsters would learn at home. I still do, but I would have to scrutinize the teacher a bit more carefully...
George
I remember this questionnaire. I remember thinking it was a loaded question, since we were sitting in a class that wasn't at home or school. How could one honestly check one of those two options?
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rascal
Outfield, I think that he was such a pervert by the time he made that class....that he had no idea how offensive and wrong that all was.
He kept talking about how beautifully and wonderfully the human body was....and that if we were bothered by watching people having sex...we were just too immature to handle it.
It just bothers me that he was so able to put my conscience and good sense to sleep to the point that I would accept that this was normal or acceptible in any way.
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cinderpelt
Quote: (Rascal)
Outfield, I think that he was such a pervert by the time he made that class....that he had no idea how offensive and wrong that all was.
He kept talking about how beautifully and wonderfully the human body was....and that if we were bothered by watching people having sex...we were just too immature to handle it.
It just bothers me that he was so able to put my conscience and good sense to sleep to the point that I would accept that this was normal or acceptible in any way. (End quote)
I was 17 and raised Catholic when I sat thru it, and had nary an idea about such things, except having been abused at 6 by a muckety-muck in our parish. I remember being repulsed, and don't remember much about the CFS "class", except that I survived it and was very glad when it was over.
~Cinder
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waysider
I am embarrassed and ashamed that I was involved at both an assistant and instructor level in running this class.
My heartfelt apology goes out to anyone who may have sat through a class that I was involved with.
waysider
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coolchef
vp was a pig and this class was just another of his stys
imagine putting 13 and 14 year old kids in this class with adults?
outrageous
i repeat he was nothing less than a pig
anyone haveing anything to do with runnig this "class" would and should be jailed today for showing porno to minors
Edited by coolchefLink to comment
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waysider
I agree, CC.
Of course, life was quite different 30 or 35 years ago.
Laws regarding this issue have changed considerably as have public opinions.
Still, the morality of this was essentially the same back then as it is today.
There was no information presented in this class( minus the objectionable material we are referencing) that could not be found in secular, informational materials.
On second thought, this was the only class I recall where Wierwille said God told him the nature of original sin.
He went on to say he had no scriptural proof and that we would have to just take his word for it.
Yikes!---That should have been a massive red flag!!!!!
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RumRunner
CC - I rarely post anymore - annoyed too many people but I have to take a small (or perhaps not so small) issue with you on this one. I agree completely that drunk Vic was a pig, molester and many other horrible things. Your posts have always been passionate but level headed - something I appreciate since there are so many hot-heads on GS (good recipes too). But...
...with the number of posts of people all agreeing to having been duped - titles like "Did you buy the farm etc" with the number of people acknowledging how they were sorry for past involvement etc.. the overarching "feel" of GS is a bunch of people who bought into something that they were not ready for nor knew how to manage...
I am somewhat at a loss that after Waysider gave such an apology and admission of shame you would suggest that Waysider should be jailed today (NOT BY NAME I REALIZE - but implicitly in the above text). I will not disagree about the juvenile horror TWI propagated in the least - I agree with you completely but Waysider is not someone I would want jailed - I would want that voice of reason outspoken and free.
I am not posting this to castigate you, insult you or change your views about the pig VPW - just asking you to rethink what that post might mean to Waysider. Nor am I trying to be divisive between you and Waysider. Just trying to remind everyone that a lot of the reason we congregate here is that all of us bought into it to one degree or another - maybe 0.001 degree for some and 99.9 degree for others.
Feel free to flame - but please do not - was only thinking of Waysiders admission here.
Thanks,
RR
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doojable
I have to be honest here. The whole "immaturity" thing kinda didn't bother me. Most likely that was because I was an art student and I had two 6 hour classes every week in which I either drew or painted nude models- one class being an Artistic Anatomy class. So, the whole "beautifully and wonderfully made" aspect made sense to me.
Now on the other hand... the part where VP went through all the slang words... that was odd and over the top, IMO. (I felt that way even then!) The class instructor said that VP had so much love that he was doing something that would embarrass most men his age... but that he didn't want us to be witnessing and be caught off guard... <_<
whatever...
We didn't have any minors in the class- but then again, there weren't any minors in that branch.
Mostly I felt that the class sent very mixed messages. On the one hand, we were taught that sex was for marriage and masturbation was the original sin. On the other hand... it just made us horny as hell!
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waysider
waysider checking in, here.
When I read CoolChef's post, I took it to mean:
(paraphrasing)
"If you did this today, you should be jailed.
------not-------
"If you did this, today you should be jailed.
Darn those pesky comma's.
I agree with the first statement, not the second.
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Watered Garden
Those of us who instructed this class or took this class, for the most part thought we were doing the right thing at the time we were doing it. I took it several times, the first at a summer camp type situation where I nearly left the ministry as a result, and had to be reassured by calling my twig leader long distance to have him tell me it was okay. Would he encourage me to stick it out now? I seriously doubt it.
I don't have time for any more. I agree it was really strange. But those were strange times and a lot of strange stuff got labeled exciting truths that required the "renewed mind" to properly understand them.
WG
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rascal
Undestood dooj, I have studied drawing the naked body as well....but were you drawing engorged penises, were you drawing people who were participating in the act?
Yeah, I know there are stores that make a lot of money selling books magazines and movies...portraying just such things....BUT they are required to rate their store as X... minors are not permitted. Also, when you walk in there...you know what you want...
Couple that with the doggy porn that vpw showed the teenagers and their parents at rome city....I think it was pretty sinister....In hind sight, I think that it was an attempt to make perversion acceptible...make it ok for christians to indulge in this stuff and remain untarnished.
Waysider, that was nice. It wasn`t your fault...we all did some pretty bizarre things because we were told that was what God wanted :(
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Outfield
Who is the Dr. Wingberger (don't remember his name) that discussed birth control on there?
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doojable
No - I was just honestly commenting on my willingness at the time to accept the explanation about being "mature enough to handle" seeing those photos. It didn't bother me to see naked bodies, I did find the human body beautiful (still do). I didn't find that part of the class offensive. I was twenty-something. I'm sure that I'd have a completely different attitude if I saw that class today now that I'm the mother of two young ladies.
I'm not defending the man or the class. I think it created many more problems than it purported to solve.
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Nero
Um - remember I didn't see any porno when I went. We listened to it over a speaker system - not film. They didn't let minors go in there except me (I was the youngest one). The people coordinating the class had to get my parents to sign a release if I remember correctly. Sort of like when you are in school and they have to get a release for you to watch a film with a higher rating than permited? I was home schooled for some of my life - so I guess my parents thought maybe this would be the closest thing to a sex education class that I could get at the time.
I'm not defending how stupid their class was - or how utterly shovanistic it was - or that it gave me anything in the way of a decent sex education. But jeeze - I think that 13 year olds need to be told sex... if not sooner. It was just from a bad source.
I guess I am a little aggrivated because that would mean my parents needed to be jailed for letting me listen?
I guess my generation is a little more open about sex? I have friends outside twi who think nothing of watching stuff like that together. Although I have never done this myself - I don't really think anything of it either. But then again - they don't have some weird old predator (who is supposed to be a priest) in the room with them saying weird crap either. Creeeepy. I am sorry for you guys that had to watch the pron with that weird old freak.
*won't say much on the subject - but I remember being 13 and filled with hormons. I drew a few things before I went to this class. I still do hehe.* XP
I guess I am a pervert.
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passthetrash
That is definitly NOT the class I took! And I was 15! I can't believe the things they thought a 15 year old should know. I took the CF&S class and The Believer's Family Class.(TBFC was much more mellow sexually). I think alot about TWI and how sexually charged everything was! I mean everything... It is no wonder the way I grew up and so many of my peers did! Wow too much going through my head right now.. maybe I'll finish later...
I go through stages (as many do) about TWI and right now I am at PURE DISGUST!
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Nero
PTT - wow - didn't know it got to some people like that. I think it didn't bother me much because it seemed like such a far away thing? Maybe if I had been older it would have screwed me up a bit more. Then again - I think I blocked most of it because I was doodling. XP I think the only thing I can remember is laughing at the weird words... or in CMs class I listened a bit - and doodled.
Sometimes I wish I could see these things again - just to see how I would react to them now. Maybe I would be disgusted. Well, actually I know I would be.
Although I still don't think anyone should be locked up for putting the class out.
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rascal
Understood Nero...I am not objecting to porn per say....It is legal, you can rent it at any video store, purchase magazines ...however...in public anywhere that there are minors apt to see it...it is always covered from view.
That is deemed as appropriate.
For heavens sake, the boobie bungalo is a local attraction that draws the united ire of the local churches etc...I don`t even have a problem with that as a business that people chose to patronize.
It is one thing to chose to view it. It is one thing as a parent to decide what is appropriate for your children to see in regards to their sexual education.
It is quite another , to have this presented in a class purported to be about the christian FAMILY...to have porn sandwitched in to a class that was supposed to teach us how to raise a family GOD`S way.
Maybe since you weren`t married in twi Nero...you didn`t have the opportunity to see the women and men who used this class and the freedom it appeared to offer in Christ as their chance to force their partners into dark perversion.
It is the kind of thing that kind of rung alarm bells as not quite right...but dismissed as a lack of understanding on ones own part....while for others it was the opening needed to indulge in filth and force ones partner to comply by slapping a christian seal of approval.
I just know that what appears innocuous on the surface ...in reality of practice was used to indulge and excuse perversion.
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Nero
I just wanted to make sure I stated this again - I wasn't defending that horrible monstrosity of a class hehe. I also wasn't defending their use of porn. If they had shown those images to me at that young of an age maybe I would be more offended. I know my parents wouldn't have allowed me to go if there were.
I guess I was just reacting to the people should be locked up thing. I wasn't mad - it just sort of freaked me out to think my parents should be locked away.
When I posted I didn't know other minors had actually seen the video version - PTT just said how she felt and I realized where I might have been wrong - now that would be wrong.
-
I do know what those gals went through - which is why I couldn't bring myself to marry anyone from twi. There might have been a ray of hope (haha no) if the guy was decent and not completely freaking crazy. However, I did see that most of the guys really misused this and you could tell that under the surface their wives were utterly miserable.
I did date one guy in twi once - when I was very young. I was lucky - he was sweet as pie and like me - really wasn't into too much of the weird twi junk. I liked him for his personality - not his super twi powers. His parents were thrown out and I never saw him again. The last I heard he is no longer in himself.
After that though - I never found anyone quite like him in twi. So I just dated people outside.
And I did see how people dated in twi as I got older. It was disgusting to me then. They would demand their girlfriends do things like they owned them. Their girlfriends would go to their house and clean their room and do their laundry out of some weird duty. When they talked to me - they sounded like dolls that were doing their master's bidding - not like loving girlfriends.
The one time that bothered me the most - was when I met a girl that was older than me. She had a boyfriend in twi - she told me that breaking up was fine and dandy when you are dating someone outside of twi - but when you are dating someone in twi it's different. You can't let silly things get in the way. O_o This was her response to him being a complete bastard to her for no reason for the majority of their relationship - I couldn't believe it.
I knew I was way too free spirited to let someone become my dictator - so I dated and married my husband. <3
Thank... goodness...
BUT
If I had been stupid enough to marry someone in twi though - I'd like to think that he would have been more like me. I know I wouldn't have put up with any of that "I own you" crud.
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coolchef
sorry if i stated it wrong
i did not mean the people who ran or helped run it should be jailed today for what they did years ago
{hell i'd be in there with them!lol}my intention was to say if that class were runnig TODAY they would [or should} be locked up
didn't mean to slam anyone
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RumRunner
My apologies - looks like I read it wrong. Sorry about that.
RR
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excathedra
wow this thread started 3 or 4 years ago eh ?
just the title of it ha
anyone who thinks veepee had one itty bitty ounce of credibility for teaching something with this title
ohmy
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waysider
That would be Fr!tz Win3g@rner, M.D., a general surgeon(I think), who was also VPW's personal doctor and attended to him in his final days.
From all accounts I have heard, he was always an upright kind of guy.
There is someone who posts here regularly who worked in his practice and knew him well.
He was probably recruited to appear in the sessions to lend an air of credibility to the class.
That certainly does not make him a "bad guy".
I think he got "played" just like the rest of us.
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waysider
Well, actually, I remember this being in the class in the mid 1970s.
In fact, VP said that if you do this without your spouse, it is an indication you are having marital problems.
Personally, I think he was using that to give some sort of credence to his theory that the original sin was masturbation "and then some".
Remember, he said he had no scriptural proof and that we would "just have to trust" him on this one.
Thirty five years later I'm still no closer to understanding what the heck any of this could have had to do with Biblical research.
Consider, also, that society was in the midst of a sexual revolution at the time.
This class was presented on the heels of the highly successful book, Joy of Sex by Alex Comfort.
Could Wierwille have been trying to capitalize on a market demand that he recognized?
I don't think we will ever know for certain.
( at least not in this lifetime)
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GeorgeStGeorge
I seem to remember a questionnaire given out either before or after the class. One of tghe questions was "Where do you think sex should be taught: at home, at school. or in church?" (Or words to that effect -- it's been over 25 years since I've seen it.) I thought that in church would be appropriate, at least to supplement what the youngsters would learn at home. I still do, but I would have to scrutinize the teacher a bit more carefully...
George
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doojable
I remember this questionnaire. I remember thinking it was a loaded question, since we were sitting in a class that wasn't at home or school. How could one honestly check one of those two options?
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