like a patient sitting in the dentist chair realising this guy only has a BS degree
thanks ckeer.
"It is apparent that Wierwille greatly exaggerated his educational achievements in an effort to appear more knowledgeable and credible as a Bible teacher."
The sad thing about the title was that for many of us who were in the ministry and had taken his classes, the degree did not matter one way or the other. We were thankful to God for what VPW taught us.
I really think the degree was for his own self image. Although "Dr Weirwille" does have a certain "ring" to it. And I can't imagine him being anything else
I really think the degree was for his own self image. Although "Dr Weirwille" does have a certain "ring" to it. And I can't imagine him being anything else
I agree it does have a rather distinctive ring to it, like "Captain Kangaroo", "Uncle Festus",
like a patient sitting in the dentist chair realising this guy only has a BS degree
thanks ckeer.
"It is apparent that Wierwille greatly exaggerated his educational achievements in an effort to appear more knowledgeable and credible as a Bible teacher."
Well,
technically,
he did submit work to an organization, graduate from it,
and receive a Doctorate degree from that organization.
So, technically speaking, he did get a Doctorate.
HOWEVER,
the standards for issuing PhDs is normally a LOT stricter than
used by that organization, and it was never accredited.
So,
whether or not you think that degree is worth the paper it's
printed on is a matter of opinion.
It's not of equal authority, say, as a PhD from Princeton
Theological would have been. That's where he DID earn a
If there's anyone out there who initially got involved with twi, or stayed involved with twi, because "Dr." Wierwille had a "Dr." in front of his name, please raise your hand.
I'd be very interested in hearing about your stowry, and how that matters any with one's spiritual life ...
If there's anyone out there who initially got involved with twi, or stayed involved with twi, because "Dr." Wierwille had a "Dr." in front of his name, please raise your hand.
I'd be very interested in hearing about your stowry, and how that matters any with one's spiritual life ...
:)-->
The "Dr" before his name gave me ammunition to refute anyone who tried to tell me I was following a flawed mentality.
How would they know? Did they have doctorate degrees? Any degrees at all? No. So they could not have understood the finer details about the bible...like JCING.
It gave vp's teachings validation to me...which in turn made me feel foolish for questioning them...which in turn kept me around twi far longer than I knew to stay.
I've since learned better...titles do not make a case for knowing anything...or for being right.
quote:The "Dr" before his name gave me ammunition to refute anyone who tried to tell me I was following a flawed mentality.
So then, Doctors can't have flawed mentalities?
When someone tried to tell you Wierwille had a flawed mentality, you said "no way, cause he's a Doctor"!??
quote:How would they know? Did they have doctorate degrees? Any degrees at all? No. So they could not have understood the finer details about the bible...like JCING.
One cannot understand the finer details about the bible, like JCING, without being a Doctor?
quote:It gave vp's teachings validation to me...which in turn made me feel foolish for questioning them...which in turn kept me around twi far longer than I knew to stay.
If he went by "Rev. Wierwille", his teachings wouldn't have been valid, or as valid?
If you were learning under a "Rev. Wierwille", you wouldn't have stayed as long?
What does his name/title have to do with the content and application of his teachings in your life?
He had to be a doctor for you to apply the principles?
quote:I've since learned better...titles do not make a case for knowing anything...or for being right.
I guess I've known that all along, cause him being a "Doctor" was irrelevant in my spiritual life. I had been going to twig and got born again for months before I took PFAL, and even then, his so-called doctorate was irrelevant. I hung around that long, cause I thought twi was the best, and I wanted to "do the word", just like most everyone else.
I submit to you that most folks probably didn't even hang around because of "Dr." Wierwille at all; but that's for others to say, I can't speak for everyone.
Zshot, did she happen to write any books of her own? I'd like to try seeing how a motivational book written by a real Doctor motivates one more. Perhaps there's something in the title "Dr." that works magically on the human psyche?
OM, remember that I got into twi at 16yo. Impressionable...to say the least. If you weren't, then kewl.
"Dr", to me, carried far more weight than "Rev".
I freely admit that the biggest attraction to twi was that it answered the problems in my life...which were numerous...without forcing me to conform to the establishment.
Which is, of course, why twi spent most of its efforts "reaching out" to young people.
A quetion to ask is why did the vicster go the pikes peak diploma mill route if he actually wrote a competent doctoral thesis?
For that matter, why didn't he get his doctorate through a recognized institution? My opinion is that no reputable institution would accept VPW as a doctoral candidate...
You have yet again made the victims of deceit the focus. If his credentials were invalid then that's it. They were bogus.
Let's take TWI and VPW out of the picture. If I am driving down the road and a police car comes up behind me with it's light on, do I assume it's a police officer? Of course. If someone calls himself a doctor and claims a strong acedemic background in biblical research does it give him ADDED credibility to most honest, trustworthy folks? Most likely. I don't have be foolish enough to believe him just because of his degree to make his actions wrong. The focus here is on the merits of his credentials. Whether I believe him or not does NOT change the dishonesty.
The oldest political trick in the book when you can't or don't want to answer the question is to redirect the conversation elsewhere. That, sir, is what I think you are doing.
She has had a vast majority of things she has written pubplised in various medical journals including the "New England Journal of Medicine".
She also does lectures at various medical writers symposiums.
In short, she knows how to write (and get published from publishers who she does not have control over), and she knows how to speak to large groups of people.
With the title of "Dr" there comes an expectation of a certain quality.
quote:For that matter, why didn't he get his doctorate through a recognized institution? My opinion is that no reputable institution would accept VPW as a doctoral candidate...
My opinion, which is pure speculation, is that at the time, he was either too poor, or too lazy, or a mixture of both.
quote:The focus here is on the merits of his credentials.
And I am asking what Wierwille's fudging his credentials have to do with one's spiritual life? Yes, he fudged. He accepted the term "Dr.", without properly earning it.
So what?
Does that effect your spiritual life?
Does that effect how God worked, or works, in your life, then and now?
quote:The oldest political trick in the book when you can't or don't want to answer the question is to redirect the conversation elsewhere. That, sir, is what I think you are doing.
The question is already answered. Wierwille isn't a real Doctor. So yes, I am trying to redirect the conversation into asking, what is the point of asking the question?
Does Wierwille not being a doctor matter ANY in one's spiritual life?
quote:The focus here is on the merits of his credentials.
And I am asking what Wierwille's fudging his credentials have to do with one's spiritual life? Yes, he fudged. He accepted the term "Dr.", without properly earning it.
It's good to see you admit that vpw used the title "Dr" as a con.
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TheEvan
No, he's dead
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TheInvisibleDan
Certainly he may now be regarded a consummate professional in the art of pushing daisies.
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excathedra
no, he's a healer
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ckeer
I guess you have to decide for yourself
Here are links to info on Pike’s Peak Bible Seminary where VPW says he got his Doctorate in Theology.
The first is from John Jude’s site:
http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/quz_ipikepk.htm
This is from another site with Cult info- It states that the Seminary is now defunct:
http://www.namb.net/root/resources/beliefb...lts/the_way.asp
A search using the phrase: Pike’s Peak Bible Seminary
Only brings back accurate results in relation to VPW
Remember that with VPW’s German immigrant background (and the Germans love of titles) being a DR. may have been a VERY BIG DEAL to VPW…
He Had a Doctorate, but the institution that granted was never accredited.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
So , VPW was really never a DR.
like a patient sitting in the dentist chair realising this guy only has a BS degree
thanks ckeer.
"It is apparent that Wierwille greatly exaggerated his educational achievements in an effort to appear more knowledgeable and credible as a Bible teacher."
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ckeer
The sad thing about the title was that for many of us who were in the ministry and had taken his classes, the degree did not matter one way or the other. We were thankful to God for what VPW taught us.
I really think the degree was for his own self image. Although "Dr Weirwille" does have a certain "ring" to it. And I can't imagine him being anything else
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TheInvisibleDan
I agree it does have a rather distinctive ring to it, like "Captain Kangaroo", "Uncle Festus",
or even "Mo Weird".
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WordWolf
Well,
technically,
he did submit work to an organization, graduate from it,
and receive a Doctorate degree from that organization.
So, technically speaking, he did get a Doctorate.
HOWEVER,
the standards for issuing PhDs is normally a LOT stricter than
used by that organization, and it was never accredited.
So,
whether or not you think that degree is worth the paper it's
printed on is a matter of opinion.
It's not of equal authority, say, as a PhD from Princeton
Theological would have been. That's where he DID earn a
legitimate Master's degree.
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pjroberge
VePee's doctorate is worth as much as a roll of toilet paper. Kinda like the degrees from TWI...
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JustThinking
Has anyone ever read his doctoral thesis? Has it ever been mentioned?
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oldiesman
If there's anyone out there who initially got involved with twi, or stayed involved with twi, because "Dr." Wierwille had a "Dr." in front of his name, please raise your hand.
I'd be very interested in hearing about your stowry, and how that matters any with one's spiritual life ...
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CoolWaters
Screwed up here...sorry folks.
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CoolWaters
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oldiesman
Coolwaters:
So then, Doctors can't have flawed mentalities?When someone tried to tell you Wierwille had a flawed mentality, you said "no way, cause he's a Doctor"!??
One cannot understand the finer details about the bible, like JCING, without being a Doctor? If he went by "Rev. Wierwille", his teachings wouldn't have been valid, or as valid?If you were learning under a "Rev. Wierwille", you wouldn't have stayed as long?
What does his name/title have to do with the content and application of his teachings in your life?
He had to be a doctor for you to apply the principles?
I guess I've known that all along, cause him being a "Doctor" was irrelevant in my spiritual life. I had been going to twig and got born again for months before I took PFAL, and even then, his so-called doctorate was irrelevant. I hung around that long, cause I thought twi was the best, and I wanted to "do the word", just like most everyone else.I submit to you that most folks probably didn't even hang around because of "Dr." Wierwille at all; but that's for others to say, I can't speak for everyone.
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Zshot
I have a friend who has a real "PHd" who was with twi for a period of time (that's when we met).
According to her, none of vpw's books or teachings were not at a PHd's level of quality.
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oldiesman
Zshot, did she happen to write any books of her own? I'd like to try seeing how a motivational book written by a real Doctor motivates one more. Perhaps there's something in the title "Dr." that works magically on the human psyche?
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CoolWaters
OM, remember that I got into twi at 16yo. Impressionable...to say the least. If you weren't, then kewl.
"Dr", to me, carried far more weight than "Rev".
I freely admit that the biggest attraction to twi was that it answered the problems in my life...which were numerous...without forcing me to conform to the establishment.
Which is, of course, why twi spent most of its efforts "reaching out" to young people.
Like with any other cult.
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pjroberge
A quetion to ask is why did the vicster go the pikes peak diploma mill route if he actually wrote a competent doctoral thesis?
For that matter, why didn't he get his doctorate through a recognized institution? My opinion is that no reputable institution would accept VPW as a doctoral candidate...
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JustThinking
Herr Shpinmeister (OM),
You have yet again made the victims of deceit the focus. If his credentials were invalid then that's it. They were bogus.
Let's take TWI and VPW out of the picture. If I am driving down the road and a police car comes up behind me with it's light on, do I assume it's a police officer? Of course. If someone calls himself a doctor and claims a strong acedemic background in biblical research does it give him ADDED credibility to most honest, trustworthy folks? Most likely. I don't have be foolish enough to believe him just because of his degree to make his actions wrong. The focus here is on the merits of his credentials. Whether I believe him or not does NOT change the dishonesty.
The oldest political trick in the book when you can't or don't want to answer the question is to redirect the conversation elsewhere. That, sir, is what I think you are doing.
JT
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Zshot
OM,
My friends has a PHd in Micro Biology.
For a profession she is a medical writer.
She has had a vast majority of things she has written pubplised in various medical journals including the "New England Journal of Medicine".
She also does lectures at various medical writers symposiums.
In short, she knows how to write (and get published from publishers who she does not have control over), and she knows how to speak to large groups of people.
With the title of "Dr" there comes an expectation of a certain quality.
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oldiesman
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oldiesman
JustThinking:
And I am asking what Wierwille's fudging his credentials have to do with one's spiritual life? Yes, he fudged. He accepted the term "Dr.", without properly earning it.So what?
Does that effect your spiritual life?
Does that effect how God worked, or works, in your life, then and now?
The question is already answered. Wierwille isn't a real Doctor. So yes, I am trying to redirect the conversation into asking, what is the point of asking the question?Does Wierwille not being a doctor matter ANY in one's spiritual life?
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Ham
This discussion makes me curious. Does anybody know what "Doctor's" "doctorate thesis" was about, or perhaps have a copy?
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Zshot
It's good to see you admit that vpw used the title "Dr" as a con.
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