Yes. Someone died. It was you. The old you. And along with that death, you lost the hopes and dreams, and answers and aspirations the old you held near and dear. That's why it feels so sad.
Unfortunately, those hopes and dreams etc were not real, and believing in them was not healthy. Moving on from them will give you a much better shot at the kind of life you want. It may not be fun or easy but it's more likely to be successful.
The transition will go quicker and easier (to some degree) if you grieve what you lost as specifically as you can. If you try and deny there was any loss, that's it all now roses and honey, the old stuff will probably come back to bite you.
Many find it helps to understand why they were attracted to that stuff in the first place. Why they allowed themselves to ignore the stuff they knew wasn't right. Therapy can be a big help for doing that. If you don't know what the original attraction was, you are at higher risk of getting in with a similar group (or way of thinking) in the future. Many here have moved out but not moved on.
And divorce on top of that. Also not unusual but also painful - even if you were the one that left the marriage and even if it was for good reasons. Working through why you were attracted to that kind of marriage, and what you want next will be useful.
I personally agree with you about the bible. I've been out since the mid-1980s (after being in for 15 years). Since I left I've never found the bible, or church of any kind at all appealing. But neither did I before I got in either.
I think the biggest change for me is that I'm much more comfortable with questions and "mystery" when it comes to life's big questions than I am with answers or people who proport to know them.
Belle, Grief and mourning are not just for events when a physical body of someone loved has passed. It's also for the loss of anything. A job, home, any event or loss that effects you as an individual and it's very very unique.
I think we tend to think we are not supposed to or not allowed to grieve losses like that.
You must do what you have to do for you! Take care of your own emotional health, heed what the therapist says, read what you can and stay away from what you can't.
It's ok.
You have lost a ministry that at one time you believed in and maybe loved. Then you lost a marriage that at one time you believed in and loved, You have lost a life partner that you believed in and loved. And this doesn't even mention all the residual losses from each of THOSE losses. It's alot and it's painful and it takes time.
Belle, for me it was a little different. I think I saw it coming for a long time. Kind of like slow withdrawl. When I finally left there were no real suprises.
And there is one tremendous bright spot in all of this... NO MORE MEETINGS!
That fact alone is going to add years to your life. Sleep in Sunday mornings, watch T.V. instead of going to "Twig", and spend holidays with people you actually like - what a concept!
And, personally, the religion game - no matter the flavor - never added a thing to my life (other than guilt, that is).
Yes, Belle, the old you died. Well, actually, it was slaughtered the moment you began questioning...and now that you're in a place to wonder about why it was slaughtered so coldly, you're also in a place to recognize that, as has already been said, it was the unhealthy version of you.
We left in 1990...but I wasn't out of the mindset until 2002...because I hadn't dealt with they why's and wherefore's of my attraction to twi in the first place. And that has already been said, too.
There's also a death of all the time spent doing the twi thing and living up to twi expectations. For me, that is time I cannot recoup.
Something I discovered in therapy was that I was holding onto the notion that there were just a few things wrong in twi that, if given the opportunity, I could convince people that I'm not such a reject and that I make a whole lot of sense.
That is wishful thinking. TWI allows nobody to think for themselves...and allows nobody to associate with those who do think for themselves. If the brainwashing has taken hold, people who are still in twi voluntarily reject friends and loved ones who are no longer in.
Basically, holding on to the hope that friends and loved ones can be talked sense to is hopeless...and causes more pain than recovery.
And even if you just want to interact on a mature, amicable level if you're at the grocery store and happen to run into folks still in twi, that is still not allowed by twi mentality. Those still in twi will see such interactions as being friendly to devil spirits they might "catch".
It's harsh. But that's the reality. It takes a long time to grasp that reality once you're out...because, now that you're thinking more clearly, you just don't think like that anymore...and neither does most of the rest of the world...so it's hard to understand.
Also, if somebody in actually acts friendly towards you, you know that it's not for you, but for the possibility that they may win you back.
Belle, I went through many of the stages that people go through when told they have a terminal disease. Denial, anger, shock, fear, and finally resolution/acceptance.
We left in 1996, but I didn't start to deal with it until 2000, when my beloved aunt died, my son was getting weirder and weirder, belligerent, defiant, hateful and somewhat violent toward me. I went to therapy for six months. During part of this time, we went to a little church that kind of left us alone, welcoming us when we were there and not being too intrusive when we weren't.
It will take a while to work through this and don't worry about "getting over" it. I don't think I will ever "get over" being suspicious and cautious. We attend a different church now, one that teaches the Bible, and I can handle it just fine.
However, in our small group when they got to the Purpose Driven Life chapter about reproof, I just went off. This one woman thought it so wonderful, and hoped we could get to the place where we lived like that, issuing reproof all the time to each other. I told her I had lived like that, and usually what happens is one or two people issue all of the reproof and correction according to their own whims and fancies, likes and dislikes, and their word, not God's becomes doctrine. I have since quit going to this small group and avoid this woman (who of course pops up all over the place and wants to be my friend).
It was an ugly moment indeed when I realized that TWI, God's own special group of people, the red thread, the sacred remnant, were nothing but a mind controlling, money grubbing, immoral cult.
It was a beautiful moment when I realized that didn't make me a mind controlling, money grubbing, immoral person. I was a victim of TWI. I am no longer a victim. I am free, I can and do speak my mind, and I can smell a load of horses**T five miles this side of the state legislature!!!! :D-->
It was hard for me. I left alone, and I had an innie boyfriend who was still trying to convince me to stay in. I ended up dumping him because he was so darn brainwashed and mean that I couldnt' stand the sight of him anymore. I went to church and ended up going to a divorce care group. It ended up helping me to deal with my feelings of betrayal from twi.
When I had left, I felt that the very thing I believed in had failed me. I had to grasp reality on the fact that I wasn't so right for so many years. I had to deal with forgiveness of twi even though they weren't going to apologize, and then I had to deal with forgiving myself--forgiving my self for kicking family and friends to the curb for twi's sake, and forgiving myself for being so arrogant in my beliefs about God.
It was a hard pill to swallow, but I made it through. I cried a lot of tears in front of people who were loving and understanding. And I think I came through it pretty well and at a pretty good pace. It's been 2 years since I left twi. A lot has happened since then, and I see God's grace in my life bigger than I ever have.
Don't be afraid to let the new you come out and explore your new life.
Thanks, y'all! I keep thinking I'm handling this all fine and strong and it's not bothering me and then I feel like something jumped out of the bushes and punched me in the stomach.
Your answers really help more than you can imagine. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.
quote: I commented that anything related to the Bible makes me sick to my stomach. I used to really enjoy watching the doctrinal section and the debates, but I can't even bring myself to go there right now.
dmiller expressed his concern about my decision, albeit nicely. :)-->
((Belle)) -- thanks. I didn't mean to criticize you for your lack of interest, and I'm glad you picked up on that. I've risen above the "old days", and have moved on -- so that will segue into answering your questions about ----
quote: How long have you been out, dmiller? Years? Decades? I haven't even been out 2 years and I've only been divorced for months.
FYI --I got married (and also got involved in twi), in 1975. I left twi, and my wife left me, in 1985. It's been 20 years for me, after those initial 10 years, in both relationships. I never found another woman to marry, nor did I find another "church" to replace twi -- but I still appreciate women, and I still like the Word. ;)-->
That's all I meant by those comments on the Nephilim thread. I didn't toss out the bible, just because there was a bad apple in the barrel. Like I said - I haven't found a church I like, so I don't go. But I don't let that exclude me from trying to stay in fellowship with the Father, and Jesus Christ.
Because I have been alone for 20 years now, I honestly feel (many days) that it is just God, Jesus, and me -- walking the varied paths my feet find to travel (these days) ;)--> I find it easier to distrust humans, and shun relationships (spiritual or physical), because they have ended up sour, even though I know it doesn't always happen that way (example -- my parents -- married for 54 years now).
I find that discussion of doctrinal topics, or debate about "splitting hairs", does a wonderful job of getting me back on track, when I slip from the "spiritual thinking". It gets me thinking about all the possibilities that are involved in life, and realizing that there is more to life than what was propounded by vpw and co. It also helps me move further and further away from what I was taught 20 years ago. God is very, very real to me -- and I'll be d*mned if I let twi steal that relationship from me.
I appreciate your candor. So we both lost our loved ones when we left TWI. It hurts, doesn't it? We were going to have kids and he changed his mind as I changed my mind about being in a cult. Now I'm fast approaching "too old to have kids" and that really scares me. I'm afraid I may have missed my opportunity to have the "normal" family I so wanted and thought I was going to have with him.
I'm sorry that you haven't found another woman to marry, if that's what you want. I'm sure God appreciates your ability to continue trusting in Him and Jesus despite the cr@p we've had to go through. Thanks for having the wherewithall to speak your mind on here. I truly appreciate it.
I'm afraid I may have missed my opportunity to have the "normal" family I so wanted and thought I was going to have with him.
I don't mean to say this isn't sad, because it is. But it's also true that there's no such thing as a "normal family".
This is true on an individual scale - the older I get the more I realize that all of the people I know, with "normal" mariages and families are all strange in some way or other.
And it's true on a scale of society as a whole. The idea that a normal family had 2 parents, 4 grand-parents, 2.3 kids is a myth. I can't remember the name of the book that studied this but the author showed through research that throughout modern history the "norm" has always been ab-normal.
We left just prior to Craig stepping down from the presidency, because we just couldn't stand the ugliness of the life we were living.
We saw our earthly, unbeliever families leading lives we could only envy--they had hobbies and friends, money, nice homes,fun. We had no time, no money, always trying to balance our family's needs with the demands of Twi. Ugh.
We were struggling in so many areas--and of course, that only brought down more heavy handed leadership into our lives, causing more problems and stress.
I felt such a sense of lightness after we were finally out.
Our areas of 'need' cleared up quickly--got better jobs, bought a house, began taking serious care for our health etc. We found habbies, too!
Neither hubby or I are Bible folk now--for us it just ebbed away.
((((Belle)))) What you are going through is NORMAL. You will have up times and down times for a while and eventually there will be less and less down times.
I had panic attacks for quite a while after I left TWI and again for a time after my marriage ended. They eventually went away. If you have one, just focus on breathing slowly, it slows the heart rate down and helps control the panic.
When I first left TWI, I joined a church for a time and went to a home study group. I couldn't hang with it over the long haul though, for many reasons which I can discuss with you in email if you like. Then I went through a time of agnosticism. Eventually, I started studying all sorts of religions, Native American, Buddhism, Paganism, and Judaism. You know from the doctrinal forums I have found great comfort and enjoyment in Judaism. But I am still not comfortable in a group setting or a synogogue and I've been out for 4 years now. Maybe I will never be comfortable in a group setting, I don't know, but I don't worry about it much because in the age of the internet I have found it very easy to find people I enjoy "fellowshipping with" who do not demand I believe the same way they do. :)-->
Oh, yes, I went to counselling for a time too - it was supposed to be marriage counselling. It didn't help my marriage, but it sure helped me.
p.s. that biological time bomb hasn't gone off yet - these days women are having babies even in their late 40's. And there are people who chose to have babies otuside of marriage - a hard road I think, but not impossible or unmanageable in todays society.
Belle -- yes it did hurt back then, and took a bit for me to get over the double loss. Just realized I did not answer the original question ---
quote: How long have y'all been out of TWI? How long did it take you to "get over it"? Did you go to therapy? (I am going now). Did you feel like someone died in your life when you found out about how awful TWI was?
You know how long I've been out, and it took about a year (am guessing) to really get over it. There was a *healthy bunch* of insurgents up here in Duluth then, and I had some friends back home in Indiana supplying me with recordings from a lot of meetings ( and transcripts of others), that were going on all over the country. Those tapes and transcripts, helped a lot of us here see twi in it's true light and a lot faster, so we knew everything all at once -- and didn't have to deal with the "trickle down" week after week drizzle of info that would have happened otherwise.
Guess that was my *therapy*, if you can call it such. We all brought cigarettes, bottles of wine, etc. and would go over this material, and talk into the wee hours of the morning. Yes -- we all felt something *died*, but thinking back to those times -- I think what we really felt was disgust that we were duped, and maybe the dying wasn't such a bad thing after all.
This was back when the POP came out, and all hell broke loose, but up here in Northern Minnesota -- we weren't *privilidged* info-wise (the way the folks in Mpls/St. Paul were) --- so the POP, and other "ill-winds" were only rumors to us for the longest time and with limb headquarters acting like everything was fine -- we were kept in the dark. Then I started getting mail.
There were a couple of folks here who took it pretty hard, but I and others (while seeing it as a big deal), went the "disgusted" route, rather than the "hurt" one. I for one -- figured the outfit would shrivel up, and blow away -- like some piece of trash along the "highway of life", and not to be heard of again -- never realizing that the tyrannical reign of micro-managing people's lives would be continued "ad naseum", for another 2 decades.
My story is much like Dmiller's. Felt so betrayed by TWI and then my husband left a year later. It was such double-betrayal and I was left reeling emotionally. I felt like a throw-away and I have remained single. Took me a long time to feel like I was on solid ground.
I didn't go to therapy; I felt so stupid and that no one would understand. But I started to realize that my heart was always right---to know, love and serve the Lord. I still wanted time and solace in His wisdom.
I tried some churches and found that all the phone calls started to bug me. I also couldn't abide people saying, "well, this prevented me from getting to bible study and I realized that God didn't want to me come last time." What nonsense. God isn't controlling every jot and tittle of our lives. With the knowledge of our wisdom, he trusts us to deal with the things of life.
I finally found that Joyce Meyers, Michael Youseff, and Doug Batchelor's teachings are a real pleasure on television. They teach bible, but I choose when to turn on the tv. And of course, I don't always agree with absolutely everything they say, but I also don't major in minors either.
These teachers don't get into the wordsmith gymnastics that TWI did, yet they bring the simple things of God to mind to inspire me.
quote: So we both lost our loved ones when we left TWI. It hurts, doesn't it?
You know, that is why I am still here, checking this dang forum after 10 years! And I wasn't even married to, or "in love" with anyone in TWI - I just LOVED the people (WOWs) who were in my life because of TWI. I never fell hook line and sinker for TWI - but I loved those people - and they were a part of my life. It does hurt losing people because of a damn cult! 10 years later I am still haunted by them, wondering if they are in - or if they wised up. How they have been hurt? It felt like a death to all of a sudden have them gone from my life. Me leaving was not a death - but I grieve for the people I left behind.
I'm not strong enough to combat those things in my mind yet, so it's easier for me to just stay away.
Shell said:
You must do what you have to do for you! Take care of your own emotional health, heed what the therapist says, read what you can and stay away from what you can't.
Belle, I'd say you were strong enough to realize you'd be better to stay away from some things at the time. As for me I lacked that wisdom and it made my journey towards better mental health difficult at times.
My3Cents said:
The transition will go quicker and easier (to some degree) if you grieve what you lost as specifically as you can.
For me that was rather difficult as well. Again if you don't have the wisdom to stay away from something at times, you fail to see the red flags of entrance into them and are challenged to specifically grieve as My3Cents stated.
My3Cents said:
Many find it helps to understand why they were attracted to that stuff in the first place. Why they allowed themselves to ignore the stuff they knew wasn't right. Therapy can be a big help for doing that. If you don't know what the original attraction was, you are at higher risk of getting in with a similar group (or way of thinking) in the future.
He said it best, but still I wanted to add my agreement in understanding. Godspeed your ability to continue to see what you need to stay away from until you're ready to go where it'll take you. And then as you've shown us here you'll gain an understanding of those things as you have of others.
You know, that is why I am still here, checking this dang forum after 10 years! And I wasn't even married to, or "in love" with anyone in TWI - I just LOVED the people (WOWs) who were in my life because of TWI. I never fell hook line and sinker for TWI - but I loved those people - and they were a part of my life. It does hurt losing people because of a damn cult!
When I was in, most of our "relationships" were so colored by what we thought was the word that we never really saw people for who they were. So many people I know were in love with their own fantasy of what people were like.
So true, 3 Cents. We had a 'manufactured reality' that made many things 'feel' like this or that. The proof that most of the folks that I "loved" then weren't really my friends is that the friendships didn't survive da Way. But there were some wild feelings I had to dredge through on my way out. Funny, because I'd been pretty cynical about the Gulag for some years (ask alfakat, he knows!) yet i could scarcely drag myself from it. I so admire my friends that smelled a rat earlier and calmly walked away.
*manufactured reality* whew....it was really tough to leave the way and then find out that you know litteraly nothing about your spouse.
Damn, both of us were sobered to realise that neither knew anything about the other....we simply loved our twi *faces*.
Having several small children, meant that we needed to suck it up, and carry on anyway, whether we liked the real us or not.
We are so opposite...I the impractical, flakey animal nut, he the ever logical, frugal loner.
We have to deal now with all of the issues ignored during twi years, the damaged souls from our harsh childhoods...
It was tough, because both of us having joined twi at young ages....and being committed participants for all of our adult lives.....we really had no idea who we were....it was staggering to realise in our mid 30s we were going to have to reinvent ourselves, our values, our belifs, our goals, our likes....what our place was in the universe....it seemed so crushingly overwhelming at the time....
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My3Cents
Belle,
Yes. Someone died. It was you. The old you. And along with that death, you lost the hopes and dreams, and answers and aspirations the old you held near and dear. That's why it feels so sad.
Unfortunately, those hopes and dreams etc were not real, and believing in them was not healthy. Moving on from them will give you a much better shot at the kind of life you want. It may not be fun or easy but it's more likely to be successful.
The transition will go quicker and easier (to some degree) if you grieve what you lost as specifically as you can. If you try and deny there was any loss, that's it all now roses and honey, the old stuff will probably come back to bite you.
Many find it helps to understand why they were attracted to that stuff in the first place. Why they allowed themselves to ignore the stuff they knew wasn't right. Therapy can be a big help for doing that. If you don't know what the original attraction was, you are at higher risk of getting in with a similar group (or way of thinking) in the future. Many here have moved out but not moved on.
And divorce on top of that. Also not unusual but also painful - even if you were the one that left the marriage and even if it was for good reasons. Working through why you were attracted to that kind of marriage, and what you want next will be useful.
I personally agree with you about the bible. I've been out since the mid-1980s (after being in for 15 years). Since I left I've never found the bible, or church of any kind at all appealing. But neither did I before I got in either.
I think the biggest change for me is that I'm much more comfortable with questions and "mystery" when it comes to life's big questions than I am with answers or people who proport to know them.
Keep on truckin as we used to say.
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Shellon
Belle, Grief and mourning are not just for events when a physical body of someone loved has passed. It's also for the loss of anything. A job, home, any event or loss that effects you as an individual and it's very very unique.
I think we tend to think we are not supposed to or not allowed to grieve losses like that.
You must do what you have to do for you! Take care of your own emotional health, heed what the therapist says, read what you can and stay away from what you can't.
It's ok.
You have lost a ministry that at one time you believed in and maybe loved. Then you lost a marriage that at one time you believed in and loved, You have lost a life partner that you believed in and loved. And this doesn't even mention all the residual losses from each of THOSE losses. It's alot and it's painful and it takes time.
Take the time, please.
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Ham
Belle, for me it was a little different. I think I saw it coming for a long time. Kind of like slow withdrawl. When I finally left there were no real suprises.
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George Aar
And there is one tremendous bright spot in all of this... NO MORE MEETINGS!
That fact alone is going to add years to your life. Sleep in Sunday mornings, watch T.V. instead of going to "Twig", and spend holidays with people you actually like - what a concept!
And, personally, the religion game - no matter the flavor - never added a thing to my life (other than guilt, that is).
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CoolWaters
What great responses here! I've got goosebumps!
Yes, Belle, the old you died. Well, actually, it was slaughtered the moment you began questioning...and now that you're in a place to wonder about why it was slaughtered so coldly, you're also in a place to recognize that, as has already been said, it was the unhealthy version of you.
We left in 1990...but I wasn't out of the mindset until 2002...because I hadn't dealt with they why's and wherefore's of my attraction to twi in the first place. And that has already been said, too.
There's also a death of all the time spent doing the twi thing and living up to twi expectations. For me, that is time I cannot recoup.
Something I discovered in therapy was that I was holding onto the notion that there were just a few things wrong in twi that, if given the opportunity, I could convince people that I'm not such a reject and that I make a whole lot of sense.
That is wishful thinking. TWI allows nobody to think for themselves...and allows nobody to associate with those who do think for themselves. If the brainwashing has taken hold, people who are still in twi voluntarily reject friends and loved ones who are no longer in.
Basically, holding on to the hope that friends and loved ones can be talked sense to is hopeless...and causes more pain than recovery.
And even if you just want to interact on a mature, amicable level if you're at the grocery store and happen to run into folks still in twi, that is still not allowed by twi mentality. Those still in twi will see such interactions as being friendly to devil spirits they might "catch".
It's harsh. But that's the reality. It takes a long time to grasp that reality once you're out...because, now that you're thinking more clearly, you just don't think like that anymore...and neither does most of the rest of the world...so it's hard to understand.
Also, if somebody in actually acts friendly towards you, you know that it's not for you, but for the possibility that they may win you back.
TWI is a cult. This is the way it is with cults.
Yes, Belle, someone died. Something died.
Grieve.
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Watered Garden
Belle, I went through many of the stages that people go through when told they have a terminal disease. Denial, anger, shock, fear, and finally resolution/acceptance.
We left in 1996, but I didn't start to deal with it until 2000, when my beloved aunt died, my son was getting weirder and weirder, belligerent, defiant, hateful and somewhat violent toward me. I went to therapy for six months. During part of this time, we went to a little church that kind of left us alone, welcoming us when we were there and not being too intrusive when we weren't.
It will take a while to work through this and don't worry about "getting over" it. I don't think I will ever "get over" being suspicious and cautious. We attend a different church now, one that teaches the Bible, and I can handle it just fine.
However, in our small group when they got to the Purpose Driven Life chapter about reproof, I just went off. This one woman thought it so wonderful, and hoped we could get to the place where we lived like that, issuing reproof all the time to each other. I told her I had lived like that, and usually what happens is one or two people issue all of the reproof and correction according to their own whims and fancies, likes and dislikes, and their word, not God's becomes doctrine. I have since quit going to this small group and avoid this woman (who of course pops up all over the place and wants to be my friend).
It was an ugly moment indeed when I realized that TWI, God's own special group of people, the red thread, the sacred remnant, were nothing but a mind controlling, money grubbing, immoral cult.
It was a beautiful moment when I realized that didn't make me a mind controlling, money grubbing, immoral person. I was a victim of TWI. I am no longer a victim. I am free, I can and do speak my mind, and I can smell a load of horses**T five miles this side of the state legislature!!!!
:D-->
Love ya,
WG
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Nottawayfer
It was hard for me. I left alone, and I had an innie boyfriend who was still trying to convince me to stay in. I ended up dumping him because he was so darn brainwashed and mean that I couldnt' stand the sight of him anymore. I went to church and ended up going to a divorce care group. It ended up helping me to deal with my feelings of betrayal from twi.
When I had left, I felt that the very thing I believed in had failed me. I had to grasp reality on the fact that I wasn't so right for so many years. I had to deal with forgiveness of twi even though they weren't going to apologize, and then I had to deal with forgiving myself--forgiving my self for kicking family and friends to the curb for twi's sake, and forgiving myself for being so arrogant in my beliefs about God.
It was a hard pill to swallow, but I made it through. I cried a lot of tears in front of people who were loving and understanding. And I think I came through it pretty well and at a pretty good pace. It's been 2 years since I left twi. A lot has happened since then, and I see God's grace in my life bigger than I ever have.
Don't be afraid to let the new you come out and explore your new life.
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Belle
Thanks, y'all! I keep thinking I'm handling this all fine and strong and it's not bothering me and then I feel like something jumped out of the bushes and punched me in the stomach.
Your answers really help more than you can imagine. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.
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Shellon
You ARE handling this all fine. You are still breathing. There is no right or wrong, it's very unique for each individual.
Don't forget to breath out.
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dmiller
((Belle)) -- thanks. I didn't mean to criticize you for your lack of interest, and I'm glad you picked up on that. I've risen above the "old days", and have moved on -- so that will segue into answering your questions about ----
FYI --I got married (and also got involved in twi), in 1975. I left twi, and my wife left me, in 1985. It's been 20 years for me, after those initial 10 years, in both relationships. I never found another woman to marry, nor did I find another "church" to replace twi -- but I still appreciate women, and I still like the Word.
;)-->
That's all I meant by those comments on the Nephilim thread. I didn't toss out the bible, just because there was a bad apple in the barrel. Like I said - I haven't found a church I like, so I don't go. But I don't let that exclude me from trying to stay in fellowship with the Father, and Jesus Christ.
Because I have been alone for 20 years now, I honestly feel (many days) that it is just God, Jesus, and me -- walking the varied paths my feet find to travel (these days)
;)--> I find it easier to distrust humans, and shun relationships (spiritual or physical), because they have ended up sour, even though I know it doesn't always happen that way (example -- my parents -- married for 54 years now).
I find that discussion of doctrinal topics, or debate about "splitting hairs", does a wonderful job of getting me back on track, when I slip from the "spiritual thinking". It gets me thinking about all the possibilities that are involved in life, and realizing that there is more to life than what was propounded by vpw and co. It also helps me move further and further away from what I was taught 20 years ago. God is very, very real to me -- and I'll be d*mned if I let twi steal that relationship from me.
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dmiller
The best advice given, so far.
:)-->
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Belle
dmiller, thanks.
I appreciate your candor. So we both lost our loved ones when we left TWI. It hurts, doesn't it? We were going to have kids and he changed his mind as I changed my mind about being in a cult. Now I'm fast approaching "too old to have kids" and that really scares me. I'm afraid I may have missed my opportunity to have the "normal" family I so wanted and thought I was going to have with him.
I'm sorry that you haven't found another woman to marry, if that's what you want. I'm sure God appreciates your ability to continue trusting in Him and Jesus despite the cr@p we've had to go through. Thanks for having the wherewithall to speak your mind on here. I truly appreciate it.
((((SHELLON))) Thanks so much!
:)-->
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My3Cents
I don't mean to say this isn't sad, because it is. But it's also true that there's no such thing as a "normal family".
This is true on an individual scale - the older I get the more I realize that all of the people I know, with "normal" mariages and families are all strange in some way or other.
And it's true on a scale of society as a whole. The idea that a normal family had 2 parents, 4 grand-parents, 2.3 kids is a myth. I can't remember the name of the book that studied this but the author showed through research that throughout modern history the "norm" has always been ab-normal.
In otherwords, you're in good company.
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Bramble
We left just prior to Craig stepping down from the presidency, because we just couldn't stand the ugliness of the life we were living.
We saw our earthly, unbeliever families leading lives we could only envy--they had hobbies and friends, money, nice homes,fun. We had no time, no money, always trying to balance our family's needs with the demands of Twi. Ugh.
We were struggling in so many areas--and of course, that only brought down more heavy handed leadership into our lives, causing more problems and stress.
I felt such a sense of lightness after we were finally out.
Our areas of 'need' cleared up quickly--got better jobs, bought a house, began taking serious care for our health etc. We found habbies, too!
Neither hubby or I are Bible folk now--for us it just ebbed away.
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Abigail
((((Belle)))) What you are going through is NORMAL. You will have up times and down times for a while and eventually there will be less and less down times.
I had panic attacks for quite a while after I left TWI and again for a time after my marriage ended. They eventually went away. If you have one, just focus on breathing slowly, it slows the heart rate down and helps control the panic.
When I first left TWI, I joined a church for a time and went to a home study group. I couldn't hang with it over the long haul though, for many reasons which I can discuss with you in email if you like. Then I went through a time of agnosticism. Eventually, I started studying all sorts of religions, Native American, Buddhism, Paganism, and Judaism. You know from the doctrinal forums I have found great comfort and enjoyment in Judaism. But I am still not comfortable in a group setting or a synogogue and I've been out for 4 years now. Maybe I will never be comfortable in a group setting, I don't know, but I don't worry about it much because in the age of the internet I have found it very easy to find people I enjoy "fellowshipping with" who do not demand I believe the same way they do.
:)-->
Oh, yes, I went to counselling for a time too - it was supposed to be marriage counselling. It didn't help my marriage, but it sure helped me.
p.s. that biological time bomb hasn't gone off yet - these days women are having babies even in their late 40's. And there are people who chose to have babies otuside of marriage - a hard road I think, but not impossible or unmanageable in todays society.
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Shellon
Agreed, eventually there is some kind of new normal. The edges get softer, some fog clears and one realizes it's ok.
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dmiller
Belle -- yes it did hurt back then, and took a bit for me to get over the double loss. Just realized I did not answer the original question ---
You know how long I've been out, and it took about a year (am guessing) to really get over it. There was a *healthy bunch* of insurgents up here in Duluth then, and I had some friends back home in Indiana supplying me with recordings from a lot of meetings ( and transcripts of others), that were going on all over the country. Those tapes and transcripts, helped a lot of us here see twi in it's true light and a lot faster, so we knew everything all at once -- and didn't have to deal with the "trickle down" week after week drizzle of info that would have happened otherwise.
Guess that was my *therapy*, if you can call it such. We all brought cigarettes, bottles of wine, etc.
and would go over this material, and talk into the wee hours of the morning. Yes -- we all felt something *died*, but thinking back to those times -- I think what we really felt was disgust that we were duped, and maybe the dying wasn't such a bad thing after all.
This was back when the POP came out, and all hell broke loose, but up here in Northern Minnesota -- we weren't *privilidged* info-wise (the way the folks in Mpls/St. Paul were) --- so the POP, and other "ill-winds" were only rumors to us for the longest time and with limb headquarters acting like everything was fine -- we were kept in the dark. Then I started getting mail.
There were a couple of folks here who took it pretty hard, but I and others (while seeing it as a big deal), went the "disgusted" route, rather than the "hurt" one. I for one -- figured the outfit would shrivel up, and blow away -- like some piece of trash along the "highway of life", and not to be heard of again -- never realizing that the tyrannical reign of micro-managing people's lives would be continued "ad naseum", for another 2 decades.
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Rejoice
My story is much like Dmiller's. Felt so betrayed by TWI and then my husband left a year later. It was such double-betrayal and I was left reeling emotionally. I felt like a throw-away and I have remained single. Took me a long time to feel like I was on solid ground.
I didn't go to therapy; I felt so stupid and that no one would understand. But I started to realize that my heart was always right---to know, love and serve the Lord. I still wanted time and solace in His wisdom.
I tried some churches and found that all the phone calls started to bug me. I also couldn't abide people saying, "well, this prevented me from getting to bible study and I realized that God didn't want to me come last time." What nonsense. God isn't controlling every jot and tittle of our lives. With the knowledge of our wisdom, he trusts us to deal with the things of life.
I finally found that Joyce Meyers, Michael Youseff, and Doug Batchelor's teachings are a real pleasure on television. They teach bible, but I choose when to turn on the tv. And of course, I don't always agree with absolutely everything they say, but I also don't major in minors either.
These teachers don't get into the wordsmith gymnastics that TWI did, yet they bring the simple things of God to mind to inspire me.
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Mocha Tree Girl
You know, that is why I am still here, checking this dang forum after 10 years! And I wasn't even married to, or "in love" with anyone in TWI - I just LOVED the people (WOWs) who were in my life because of TWI. I never fell hook line and sinker for TWI - but I loved those people - and they were a part of my life. It does hurt losing people because of a damn cult! 10 years later I am still haunted by them, wondering if they are in - or if they wised up. How they have been hurt? It felt like a death to all of a sudden have them gone from my life. Me leaving was not a death - but I grieve for the people I left behind.
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houseisarockin
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My3Cents
When I was in, most of our "relationships" were so colored by what we thought was the word that we never really saw people for who they were. So many people I know were in love with their own fantasy of what people were like.
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TheEvan
So true, 3 Cents. We had a 'manufactured reality' that made many things 'feel' like this or that. The proof that most of the folks that I "loved" then weren't really my friends is that the friendships didn't survive da Way. But there were some wild feelings I had to dredge through on my way out. Funny, because I'd been pretty cynical about the Gulag for some years (ask alfakat, he knows!) yet i could scarcely drag myself from it. I so admire my friends that smelled a rat earlier and calmly walked away.
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Ham
Sadly, some of us had their noses bent from smelling so many rats.. couldn't smell them anymore.
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rascal
*manufactured reality* whew....it was really tough to leave the way and then find out that you know litteraly nothing about your spouse.
Damn, both of us were sobered to realise that neither knew anything about the other....we simply loved our twi *faces*.
Having several small children, meant that we needed to suck it up, and carry on anyway, whether we liked the real us or not.
We are so opposite...I the impractical, flakey animal nut, he the ever logical, frugal loner.
We have to deal now with all of the issues ignored during twi years, the damaged souls from our harsh childhoods...
It was tough, because both of us having joined twi at young ages....and being committed participants for all of our adult lives.....we really had no idea who we were....it was staggering to realise in our mid 30s we were going to have to reinvent ourselves, our values, our belifs, our goals, our likes....what our place was in the universe....it seemed so crushingly overwhelming at the time....
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