It's not all that simple to just connect the dots, and think you have the truth. You need a lot more evidence than that to prove something.
Problem is, there are peoples in this world who love to label folks who don't subsribe to their agendas, "anti-semitic", "white supremist", "homephobe", etc. Such is the case with books like "The Thirteenth Tribe", "Done Dare Call It Conspiracy", "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century", etc., all books sold at one time by TWI. They MUST subscribe to EVERYTHING those books say, right? Wrong.
Part of all smear campaigns is to malign those who don't follow a certain train of thought. For example, a public figure who doesn't support Israel and says so publically, for whatever reason is labelled anti-semitic by the Anti Defamation League. Doesn't matter what the facts are, they are labelled and forever maligned. This labelling and maligning is a very powerful technique to smear individuals and groups.
I think VPW and TWI are being falsely maligned here. The most they are guilty of is lack of wisdom in having these books in the bookstore. It was a mistake; these books probably offended some who they were trying to win over and had really nothing to do with the purity of scriptures. They should have stayed out of politics.
quote:Part of all smear campaigns is to malign those who don't follow a certain train of thought. Any public figure who doesn't support Israel and says so publically, for whatever reason is labelled anti-semitic by the Anti Defamation League. Doesn't matter what the facts are, they are labelled and forever maligned. This labelling and maligning is a very powerful technique to smear individuals and groups.
When someone like vpw endorses, propounds, initiates, advocates, and indoctrinates others towards conspiracy theories and anti-government seeding......its very challenging to sidestep this alignment. Besides, twi's in-house BOOKSTORE was/is promoting it with sales.
quote: I used to visit HQ in '71 while still in high school, we had moved from NY to Columbus, so it was an easy trip. We knew people there, would hang out in friends' units, etc. I had seen some spotlight magazines at one time - I forget exactly where or when - they were more like large pamplets. That's why when we got our new "secret constitutions" and there was the Spotlight subscription form, I thought, oh - nothing really about it, but oh, yeah, I've seen this before.
I think Igotout put a copy of the back cover here in a thread once - I think he still has his also.
I had always wondered where VP got all this "top secret" "heavy" government info he only shared in the advanced class. It wasn't until I read the book years later on staff that everything fell into place.
Also, quite a few of his top guys were avid readers of Soldier of Fortune Magazine - you know survival stuff, etc. I read it for awhile on the recommendation of one Rev. while on staff at hq. VPs bodyguards were sent for training at one of these militia camps in the southwest. I know they were thrown out of one, and ended up training at another. Just, a lot of b.s. stuff went on.
Sunesis.......more and more pieces of the puzzle. Amazing...
quote:When someone like vpw endorses, propounds, initiates, advocates, and indoctrinates others towards conspiracy theories and anti-government seeding......its very challenging to sidestep this alignment. Besides, twi's in-house BOOKSTORE was/is promoting it with sales.
It's really up to each individual how far they want to go with this information and these books. In one sense, I'm glad we learned about these things because they give us information about groups and entities that are not necessarily working in our best interests. "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was like that in that it provided us information about these large financial institutions and their goals. I'm sort of glad that there was some information out there that alerted us to who wants to control all the loot.
But it's also fodder for the smear campaignists and victim mentality propagandists, which was why twi probably should have stayed away from it.
-----------------------------------
Back in 1973 after I first took PFAL, I was given a twi bookstore list. On it was something interesting called "A Law Course For The Active Patriot", which could be gotten from another source other than twi.
I ordered it, got it in mail, and looked it over. I was stunned. It WAS white supremist literature! They said the real meaning of the word ADAM was "white man", and so forth!
I said to myself "this can't be" and immediately wrote a letter to Milford Bowen, the head of the bookstore at that time, with a photocopy of the offensive material and complaining about its contents.
Shortly thereafter, the source was removed from the bookstore list.
Now I'm very sure that had TWI actually been a white supremist group, that little item would have been left on the bookstore list for all to absorb.
What some attribute to white supremacy alliances just doesn't wash; it could be something simple as shoddy research work. They didn't do their homework...didn't plan ahead...didn't have wisdom in these areas.
quote:Back in 1973 after I first took PFAL, I was given a twi bookstore list. On it was something interesting called "A Law Course For The Active Patriot", which could be gotten from another source other than twi.
I ordered it, got it in mail, and looked it over. I was stunned. It WAS white supremist literature! They said the real meaning of the word ADAM was "white man", and so forth!
I said to myself "this can't be" and immediately wrote a letter to Milford Bowen, the head of the bookstore at that time, with a photocopy of the offensive material and complaining about its contents.
Shortly thereafter, the source was removed from the bookstore list.
Now I'm very sure that had TWI actually been a white supremist group, that little item would have been left on the bookstore list for all to absorb.
What some attribute to white supremacy alliances just doesn't wash; it could be something simple as shoddy research work. They didn't do their homework...didn't plan ahead...didn't have wisdom in these areas.
Oldies......never heard of that one. It clarifies more....
And yeah....long gone are the days when men like Mxlford Bxxxn ran twi's bookstore. So many good folks helped to build twi.....and later, saw the deepening agendas formulating and left....never to return.
When someone with the power and influence of VPW "suggests" material, quotes material, places it in a bookstore, etc. it is an endorsement.
More evidence of the reckless unaccountability of a man with too much power and the naivety of sycophants afraid to search for themselves.
This was a large inconsistency I saw with VP...he went to the trouble of getting "certified" with the title of "Dr." so that he would have the inherent respect that title bestows -yet would not submit to the rigours of academic protocol and method.
He would endorse some half baked conspiracy theories from books he never read and then dismiss any concern for proof with an arrogant wave of the hand.
You can't have it both ways. If you want to be an "enlightened" charismatic leader who will tolerate only glassy eyes and nodding heads then have at it...but don't get all ....y when the inner circles of academia (the ones that make you drool with desire) overlook you as a lunatic.
This is why the plagerism issue offends me. It reveals the dishonor and hypocrisy of someone who craved the honor of his fellows when it suited him and dissed them when it suited him.
Oh by the way, the books "Myth of the Six Million" and "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century" were published by an outfit called "The Noontide Press". They are the Battlestar Gallactica of controversial no-no books.
everybody knows what a whackjob organization they are. And, in spite of that, WayWorld still CARRIED those books in their bookstore.
Not a footnote someplace like, "Yeah, this book is 'out there', but it does have a couple of interesting facts like -" or an offhand comment to some of the insiders (corps, etc.) that maybe they should take a look at the book if they get a chance so they could garner this or that detail from it and then look into it further. NO! None of that. They openly endorsed the books (along with "The Marxist Minstrels" and a few other dopey things) by offering them for sale in their bookstore.
Dance around it however you'd like. WayWorld was heavily leaning towards the white supremacist mindset. Our beloved "Fuhrer" at the top, the "S.S." Corps, and all the wonderful little "Brown Shirt" twigites, the parallels are obvious to anyone who cares to look.
There's also the quote I've heard from several independant sources that VPW said, in confidence in the motorcoach - with reference to WWII - that the "wrong" side won the war.
Maybe that's apochryphal, I dunno. But it sure seems to agree with his taste in books and general mindset towards politics...
When someone with the power and influence of VPW "suggests" material, quotes material, places it in a bookstore, etc. it is an endorsement.
More evidence of the reckless unaccountability of a man with too much power and the naivety of sycophants afraid to search for themselves.
This was a large inconsistency I saw with VP...he went to the trouble of getting "certified" with the title of "Dr." so that he would have the inherent respect that title bestows -yet would not submit to the rigours of academic protocol and method.
He would endorse some half baked conspiracy theories from books he never read and then dismiss any concern for proof with an arrogant wave of the hand.
You can't have it both ways. If you want to be an "enlightened" charismatic leader who will tolerate only glassy eyes and nodding heads then have at it...but don't get all ....y when the inner circles of academia (the ones that make you drool with desire) overlook you as a lunatic.
This is why the plagerism issue offends me. It reveals the dishonor and hypocrisy of someone who craved the honor of his fellows when it suited him and dissed them when it suited him.
Bothered you too, eh?
Seems some people would rather overlook the coginitive dissonance
generated by the internal inconsistency of such things.
vpw decided to rewrite the rules to his convenience rather than
demonstrate intellectual honesty.
Some would rather silence the truth and forget the past....
quote:I can't remember the name of that other book.
Babylon Mystery Religion.
Hey that brought out some good points.... it just went a little too far, in some of its surmisings, which was why I think he repudiated it later as being connected to Babylon...
quote:everybody knows what a whackjob organization they are. And, in spite of that, WayWorld still CARRIED those books in their bookstore.
Not a footnote someplace like, "Yeah, this book is 'out there', but it does have a couple of interesting facts like -" or an offhand comment to some of the insiders (corps, etc.) that maybe they should take a look at the book if they get a chance so they could garner this or that detail from it and then look into it further. NO! None of that. They openly endorsed the books (along with "The Marxist Minstrels" and a few other dopey things) by offering them for sale in their bookstore.
Dance around it however you'd like. WayWorld was heavily leaning towards the white supremacist mindset. Our beloved "Fuhrer" at the top, the "S.S." Corps, and all the wonderful little "Brown Shirt" twigites, the parallels are obvious to anyone who cares to look.
There's also the quote I've heard from several independant sources that VPW said, in confidence in the motorcoach - with reference to WWII - that the "wrong" side won the war.
Maybe that's apochryphal, I dunno. But it sure seems to agree with his taste in books and general mindset towards politics...
Some things just need repeating!....................thanks Geo.
OM, are you saying the connection to Babylon is the only thing he repudiates? I haven't read the book, but it seems as though there would be more to rescind given it took a whole book to do it. *shrug*
One thing I really find disturbing is how some folks who appear to be VPW haters follow the VPhatred tip just as blindly and vigorously as some followed the "ministry" they now speak so vehemently against.
Not disturbed cause I wanna defend VPW. Guilty is guilty. His guilt or lack thereof is not determined by my approval nor is it lessened by my defense thereof.
Grill the man's memory if you feel you must and are willing to carry the hot coals in your own mind and life to do so.
quote:...the plagerism issue offends me. It reveals the dishonor and hypocrisy of someone...
The image I unsucessfully tried to post is a page from the official "Way Corps brochure." The page has The Way Corps poem on it. I had read the other day where someone said somthing to the effect of, "...we were told it was original to VPW & TWI..."
They posted the original author as being "Henry Van Dyke." TWI's OFFICIAL, printed publication of the poem, which had to have initialed by VPW and LCM before we published it contained this on the page:
"Adapted from the fourth stanza of Spirit of the Everlasting Boy: Ode to the 100th Anniversary of the Lawrenceville School by Henry Van Dyke."
The Way Corps Poem: Plagurism? Hypocracy? Again. I'm not posting this to defend VPW. But. While we make posts illucidating the situation, perhaps somebody should shed some light on the fact that some of you are being led, STILL. In ways that are ultimately detremental to yourself.
White SUPREMACIST! Yo. I'm black. I spent many hours through the years privately or in small groups w/VPW. I shared many meals w/him. If he was a closet skinhead OR a Jew-hater. I'd know. You can smell that kinda stuff on a person, just like smelling a f@&t.
oldiesman - If Wierwille was so imcompetent as to teach that Romans 9:4 says it is addressed to the Jews, in a section of PFAL dedicated to being "continually conscious" of "To Whom Addressed", then how could he consider himself competent to teach ANYTHING? How could he have plastered "THE TEACHER" on the end of PFAL?
To say Wierwille was incompetent seems more damning, in view of the trust we gave him, than to say he was dishonest.
I freely admit he pulled the wool over my eyes. Some people have not yet arrived at that truth.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
10
23
8
6
Popular Days
Jan 26
45
Jan 27
36
Jan 25
26
Jan 28
8
Top Posters In This Topic
skyrider 10 posts
oldiesman 23 posts
Abigail 8 posts
J0nny Ling0 6 posts
Popular Days
Jan 26 2005
45 posts
Jan 27 2005
36 posts
Jan 25 2005
26 posts
Jan 28 2005
8 posts
oldiesman
It's not all that simple to just connect the dots, and think you have the truth. You need a lot more evidence than that to prove something.
Problem is, there are peoples in this world who love to label folks who don't subsribe to their agendas, "anti-semitic", "white supremist", "homephobe", etc. Such is the case with books like "The Thirteenth Tribe", "Done Dare Call It Conspiracy", "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century", etc., all books sold at one time by TWI. They MUST subscribe to EVERYTHING those books say, right? Wrong.
Part of all smear campaigns is to malign those who don't follow a certain train of thought. For example, a public figure who doesn't support Israel and says so publically, for whatever reason is labelled anti-semitic by the Anti Defamation League. Doesn't matter what the facts are, they are labelled and forever maligned. This labelling and maligning is a very powerful technique to smear individuals and groups.
I think VPW and TWI are being falsely maligned here. The most they are guilty of is lack of wisdom in having these books in the bookstore. It was a mistake; these books probably offended some who they were trying to win over and had really nothing to do with the purity of scriptures. They should have stayed out of politics.
More later...I actually have work this morning!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
When someone like vpw endorses, propounds, initiates, advocates, and indoctrinates others towards conspiracy theories and anti-government seeding......its very challenging to sidestep this alignment. Besides, twi's in-house BOOKSTORE was/is promoting it with sales.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Sunesis.......more and more pieces of the puzzle. Amazing...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
But it's also fodder for the smear campaignists and victim mentality propagandists, which was why twi probably should have stayed away from it.
-----------------------------------
Back in 1973 after I first took PFAL, I was given a twi bookstore list. On it was something interesting called "A Law Course For The Active Patriot", which could be gotten from another source other than twi.
I ordered it, got it in mail, and looked it over. I was stunned. It WAS white supremist literature! They said the real meaning of the word ADAM was "white man", and so forth!
I said to myself "this can't be" and immediately wrote a letter to Milford Bowen, the head of the bookstore at that time, with a photocopy of the offensive material and complaining about its contents.
Shortly thereafter, the source was removed from the bookstore list.
Now I'm very sure that had TWI actually been a white supremist group, that little item would have been left on the bookstore list for all to absorb.
What some attribute to white supremacy alliances just doesn't wash; it could be something simple as shoddy research work. They didn't do their homework...didn't plan ahead...didn't have wisdom in these areas.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Oldies......never heard of that one. It clarifies more....
And yeah....long gone are the days when men like Mxlford Bxxxn ran twi's bookstore. So many good folks helped to build twi.....and later, saw the deepening agendas formulating and left....never to return.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Yanagisawa
When someone with the power and influence of VPW "suggests" material, quotes material, places it in a bookstore, etc. it is an endorsement.
More evidence of the reckless unaccountability of a man with too much power and the naivety of sycophants afraid to search for themselves.
This was a large inconsistency I saw with VP...he went to the trouble of getting "certified" with the title of "Dr." so that he would have the inherent respect that title bestows -yet would not submit to the rigours of academic protocol and method.
He would endorse some half baked conspiracy theories from books he never read and then dismiss any concern for proof with an arrogant wave of the hand.
You can't have it both ways. If you want to be an "enlightened" charismatic leader who will tolerate only glassy eyes and nodding heads then have at it...but don't get all ....y when the inner circles of academia (the ones that make you drool with desire) overlook you as a lunatic.
This is why the plagerism issue offends me. It reveals the dishonor and hypocrisy of someone who craved the honor of his fellows when it suited him and dissed them when it suited him.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Yana.....good points!
The suggestion of a "general".....is basicly an order.
A "private" doesn't ask how high to jump.....HE JUMPS!
Yeah......"reckless unaccountability" was vp's mode of operation.
-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HCW
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HCW
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Oh by the way, the books "Myth of the Six Million" and "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century" were published by an outfit called "The Noontide Press". They are the Battlestar Gallactica of controversial no-no books.
Check here:
Noontide Press
Link to comment
Share on other sites
George Aar
Yes, OM,
everybody knows what a whackjob organization they are. And, in spite of that, WayWorld still CARRIED those books in their bookstore.
Not a footnote someplace like, "Yeah, this book is 'out there', but it does have a couple of interesting facts like -" or an offhand comment to some of the insiders (corps, etc.) that maybe they should take a look at the book if they get a chance so they could garner this or that detail from it and then look into it further. NO! None of that. They openly endorsed the books (along with "The Marxist Minstrels" and a few other dopey things) by offering them for sale in their bookstore.
Dance around it however you'd like. WayWorld was heavily leaning towards the white supremacist mindset. Our beloved "Fuhrer" at the top, the "S.S." Corps, and all the wonderful little "Brown Shirt" twigites, the parallels are obvious to anyone who cares to look.
There's also the quote I've heard from several independant sources that VPW said, in confidence in the motorcoach - with reference to WWII - that the "wrong" side won the war.
Maybe that's apochryphal, I dunno. But it sure seems to agree with his taste in books and general mindset towards politics...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
The authors of those books also wrote retractions along with the author of the book about papal worship, didn't they?
I can't remember the name of that other book.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Babylon Mystery Religion, by Ralph Woodrow. Retracted in "The Babylon Connection?" (the ? is part of the title. I'm not asking).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Bothered you too, eh?
Seems some people would rather overlook the coginitive dissonance
generated by the internal inconsistency of such things.
vpw decided to rewrite the rules to his convenience rather than
demonstrate intellectual honesty.
Some would rather silence the truth and forget the past....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Hey that brought out some good points.... it just went a little too far, in some of its surmisings, which was why I think he repudiated it later as being connected to Babylon...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Some things just need repeating!....................thanks Geo.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Darn-he beat me to it.
"Babylon Mystery Religion" was written first. It was essentially a
reader-friendly version of Reverend Alexander Hislop's book,
"The Two Babylons".
You can see that by looking Woodrow's book over. Despite his book
being mostly contents reworded from another author's book, he handled
things in an intellectually honest and legal fashion by FOOTNOTING
and CITING his sources.
According to someone here,
to do that would be to distract from the contents of the book.
I ask all of you:
Were you ever,
EVER,
distracted from the contents of "Babylon Mystery Religion"
by footnotes or citations?
EVER?
No, nobody else was, either.
The sequel addressed how some people confused Woodrow for Hislop
on different occasions.
That wasn't Woodrow's fault-he made it clear who wrote what.
Me?
I owned a copy of both authors' books,
plus the sequel when it came out.
I was glad for Woodrow's book. Hislop's book was a LOT harder to read,
since it wasn't user-friendly.
Writers writing in the timeframe of EW Bullinger and Alexander Hislop
were writing with the expectation that only other academics would be
reading their books. The idea that the average schmoe would want to
wasn't even a consideration. So, if you think they're TRYING to
talk over your head, understand they had no idea you were invited to
the party.
====
Mind you,
the fact that Woodrow's correct use of citations and sources did NOT
detract from "his message" should put to death the lie that vpw
refrained from doing so to prevent a loss of "his message".
(It SHOULD put that to death, but zealots are rarely swayed by
evidence. For that matter, Baghdad Bob's broadcasts that US forces
were nowhere near Bagdad had artillery barrages audible in the
background.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
Wow! Instant feedback! Thank you.
OM, are you saying the connection to Babylon is the only thing he repudiates? I haven't read the book, but it seems as though there would be more to rescind given it took a whole book to do it. *shrug*
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Belle, it seems like he converted to Roman Catholicism and then repudiated lots of what he proved in the first place. ha ha
The way I see "The Babylon Connection?", he repudiates his "surmisings"... the Babylon Connection...the connection to evil...such things like that.
I think maybe some Roman Catholic took him out to an dark alleyway and broke his thumbs or something....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bob
He repudiated just about everything in the first book.
He seemed ashamed at even writing the first book.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HCW
Ooops! Hit the wrong button, twice I guess.
One thing I really find disturbing is how some folks who appear to be VPW haters follow the VPhatred tip just as blindly and vigorously as some followed the "ministry" they now speak so vehemently against.
Not disturbed cause I wanna defend VPW. Guilty is guilty. His guilt or lack thereof is not determined by my approval nor is it lessened by my defense thereof.
Grill the man's memory if you feel you must and are willing to carry the hot coals in your own mind and life to do so.
The image I unsucessfully tried to post is a page from the official "Way Corps brochure." The page has The Way Corps poem on it. I had read the other day where someone said somthing to the effect of, "...we were told it was original to VPW & TWI..."
They posted the original author as being "Henry Van Dyke." TWI's OFFICIAL, printed publication of the poem, which had to have initialed by VPW and LCM before we published it contained this on the page:
"Adapted from the fourth stanza of Spirit of the Everlasting Boy: Ode to the 100th Anniversary of the Lawrenceville School by Henry Van Dyke."
The Way Corps Poem: Plagurism? Hypocracy? Again. I'm not posting this to defend VPW. But. While we make posts illucidating the situation, perhaps somebody should shed some light on the fact that some of you are being led, STILL. In ways that are ultimately detremental to yourself.
White SUPREMACIST! Yo. I'm black. I spent many hours through the years privately or in small groups w/VPW. I shared many meals w/him. If he was a closet skinhead OR a Jew-hater. I'd know. You can smell that kinda stuff on a person, just like smelling a f@&t.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
HCW, you're black?
uh oh...
Just kidding bro, thx...
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
HCW, maybe he learned to use the right kind of deodorant..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve Lortz
oldiesman - If Wierwille was so imcompetent as to teach that Romans 9:4 says it is addressed to the Jews, in a section of PFAL dedicated to being "continually conscious" of "To Whom Addressed", then how could he consider himself competent to teach ANYTHING? How could he have plastered "THE TEACHER" on the end of PFAL?
To say Wierwille was incompetent seems more damning, in view of the trust we gave him, than to say he was dishonest.
I freely admit he pulled the wool over my eyes. Some people have not yet arrived at that truth.
Love,
Steve
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.