After rereading parts of this thread, I began to wonder: Where would we all be today if the corps had been a place to BUILD people in a loving, caring, mentoring environment?
Would Rochelle still be alive? Would we all still be with the way?
Being kicked out of the Corps was devastating to most. Overnight all your friends and your environment of commitment was gone.
Add to that the circumstances of this story and it is a tradgedy. Back then there was no Internet forum to share on, no way to stay in touch except by snail mail or once a year at the ROA.
God bless Rochelle and her brother AL wherever he may be.
I can definitely relate. Your whole world crashes abruptly. Suicidal thoughts at 19. If it weren't for Mom & Dad, I might have actually gone thru with it. But they let me hibernate and recuperate for 2 months in my room. Then Dad kicked me out. :D-->
After all the fun, I'm getting back to "what happened?"
Here's a re-cap of one element which everyone seems to agree was a major contributing factor.
What's the real story of the trailer?
Who on the staff built it? Was it pretty sturdy? Was it properly balanced? Was it aerodynamically suitable for "highway speeds?"
Where did their plans come from? Were any safety specifications followed? Had it ever been inspected or approved for its intended use? Was it "legal?"
Why didn't TWI go out and buy one that was manufactured to the latest safety specifications? (Howard Allen was in charge, right? How much money did his decision to build a make-shift trailer, if it was his, save the ministry? We don't know how much it may have cost LEAD 104, in medical bills. There's no dollar value on the harm they suffered.)
Were there photos taken of the trailer? How about after the accident, for investigation or insurance purposes?
------------
The following remarks are copied from posts related to the trailer:
February 02, 2005 3:46
HCW
We were pulling a trailer that the LEAD staff had built out of wood framing and aluminum siding. It was about the size of a small U-Haul and had all of the luggage, back-packs & sack lunches for the 30 of us in LEAD 104.
-
Kevin started to take corrective action. (He pulled the truck to the right until all the wheels on the right side of the truck were in the gravel shoulder, including the trailer. We were bouncing but not ot badly.) Then we started to lose it. When he turned to the left to get the truck back all the way on the road the truck bounced violently.
It seemed like when the trailer came back up onto the road it bounced up and to the left pulling the rear of the truck fishtailing it to the left with it. Kevin did a counter-steer to the left to correct the skid without hitting the brakes. We were still going about 50mph at this point.
-
The trailer flipped up like a slingshot. Up over and foreward. Some people were catapaulted out of the truck, those that weren't scrunched. The trailer missed EVERYONE and hit the back of the cab, exploding on impact.
-
February 02, 2005
alfakat
Everything run on a frickin shoe-string... home-made trailer, my a$$...surprised the truck wasn't home-made, too. Too cheap and tight-a$$ed to do things right, like the world....
--
February 02, 2005
shazdancer
Legal or illegal, I think I knew back in the early 80's that riding in the back of a pickup is dangerous. And to throw 15 people back there, at 50 m.p.h., and add a homemade trailer...
--
Feb 3
HCW, quoting LCM
"There were two sudden, simultaneously powerful gusts of wind. One from the left then another from the right that picked up the trailer and swung it around one way then immediately back the other way. The trailer pulled the truck to one side. When the driver tried to correct the skid, he overcorrected and the truck went off the road and crashed into a ravine...."
Then he [Martindale] said that the people in the traing truck had told they saw the trailer bouncing and whipping the truck around like a rag doll.
--
Feb 4
jackmm
Just doing a little thinking/figuring here. They were riding in a Ford pickup truck, correct? So, let’s say it was an F250 ¾ ton truck. My figuring says that means it can carry 1500lbs of payload. That includes everything and everyone in the cab and the bed and the tongue weight of the trailer.
I’m averaging a weight of 150lbs multiplied by 16 people equals 2400lbs. Now add in some tongue weight of the trailer and the truck was very much overloaded. It was almost certainly loaded with an aft heavy center of gravity and the tongue weight adding to it. That means a very light front end and very easy to over steer.
Was the trailer hitch mounted to the bumper or the frame of the truck? Did the weight of the trailer exceed the maximum towing capacity of the truck/bumper/frame?
Yeah, everything’s gotta be perfect for the head grifter and cohorts. But the peons at the bottom of the food chain gotta use magic/believe god (don’t remember who said that) to cover for .... they shouldn’t have to even think about. And when their magic/believing god doesn’t work they get raked over the coals.
--
Feb 6
Jim
trailers are notoriously unstable in gusty conditions, the vehicle was overloaded, and by the time Kevin realized the situation was out of control, it was too late to do anything about it. The only thing else I would add is that the vehicle was totally inappropriate for the job.
A couple of months ago my daughter came into my office, shaking and her face pale. She was on the freeway, following a pickup with a trailer. A gust of wind hit, the pickup and trailer fishtailed and the trailer flipped on it's side right in front of her. It was her first really close call as a driver.
--
Feb 6
dmiller
It was May of 1985 I went on LEAD, and it was one of those "traveling sessions" they held. The one I went to was in the Black Hills of South Dakota.
We all met at the local mall, parked vehicles there for the week, and transfered all our camping stuff into the LEAD vehicle. I don't remember what kind of truck they had, but it was a big one pulling one of those sturdy Wells Cargo trailers behind it.
They piled as many of us as they could in the back of their truck (there were about 25 to 30 of us on this session), and conscripted two other people (who had a full-sized truck, and a station wagon) to transport the rest of us to the starting point. Since all our gear was in the Wells Cargo trailer, they deemed two extra vehicles *enough* to get us all to the site.
(my note: I included this post to point out that somebody at TWI had sprung for a "store-bought" trailer by 1985. Coincidence?)
--
Feb 7
HCW
AS he was grasping the paper with BOTH hands firmly on the steering wheel, eyes on the road. WE both went like, whoa! when the wind caused the truck to shudder and the trailer to hop...to the left so that the truck moved to the right.
The truck was heading to a perpendicular position with the front pointing to the the right and the back was heading towards the left. Had Kevin not had enough driving skill and poise and arm strength to correct a 50mph skid with at least a ton of people in the bed, while pulling a trailer loaded with about 8 or 900lbs...
--
Feb 7
HCW
The wind was a constant. The trailer, its weight and the towing capacity of the truck - all constants. Our speed was the variable that put us at the location of the ditch.
--
Feb 7
HCW
I'm honestly not sure that not doing the paper thing, in and of itself, would have prevented the crash. The weight of our load, the trailer itself, I think was more of a factor. The there was the wind. There are invisible wind "lanes" where it normally blows through where you can be driving along in a gentle breeze then WHAM, you're in it.
this reminds me to a degree of Tom Mitchell and the way TWI just defamed and destroyed his reputation.
The thing that those of us who survive these disraught souls can do is restore honor and dignity and affirm their lives...the way just swept these people under the rug...including many ex-way leaders who today still won't acknowledge the disgraceful way they acted. I was in the corpse with HCW, matter of fact knew each others for years before all of that...I also knew Rochelle and loved her.
those of you wish to argue in a thread dedicated to her memory, well, could you please ( and I mean this in the most polite way) take it to another thread or if it is just 2 of you, pricate topic eachother or something. For me listening and reading this other stuff is like a fight breaking out at a memorial.
I asked you an *honest* question and thought I had made clear that I did not want to engage on the issue. Your response further proves you are not capable of taking what people write at "face-value", but at this time you are seeking opportunities to lash out at others as you see fit on this thread - regardless of whether or not they are lashing out at *YOU*.
Your response to me was rude and uncalled for, considering my post to you. I clearly stated my intent and my motives. If you read anything differently then *YOU* read into my post. I found your comment interesting but since it wasn't backed up with evidence, I wanted to know what made you think and state what you did.
quote: Chuck Farley,
Maybe another time. Or ask Linda Z. She's Corps. She figured it out (partly).
That's not what I asked for.
My handle is ChasUFarley and has been for over 5 years. You knew that when you posted earlier. You also knew I asked *YOU* a question - not anyone else. If I want to know more about another poster's posts, I will ask them.
What is motivating you right now to be so vindictive?
I don't know which is more tragic - the LEAD accident/coverup or the direction this thread has taken...
Chas, I will answer you by private topic. Anybody else with pressing issues like this one, you're welcome to keep them off this thread, and bring them to me directly.
Please accept my apologies if I offended you. There's no ill-will meant by my comment.
Let me clarify my previous post -
It's saddens me that this thread has gone in the direction that it has considering the situation (accident/cover-up) that it was intended to shed light on. Both things I mentioned are tragic - yes, certainly the accident and a young lady's death the *more tragic event* of the two. The thread has been more than distracted from the poster's intent and, in my opinion, soiled.
Doesn't Rochelle deserve better than this?
What about some of the people named who showed integrity during this time?
More has been said about the building of that $%#%$# trailer than the reaction or lack of action by LCM/VPW, etc. That's tragic.
I have a personal interest in this story because I knew some of the WC people mentioned in HCW's posts. I had no idea about the accident, as it was never discussed. It put one of them, especially, in a very different light for me. Many things were never discussed, come to think of it - not just this.
I still think it's a good question. It was dedicated to Rochelle, if I recall. It was not to be a eulogy, though she has been eulogized, and deserves to be.
1) for those of you who did not notice, the content of HCW's story, without other's comments is posted in its entirety on the My Story thread.
2) Rochelle's brother, Al, is alive and well living with his wife and 3 children in the Chicago area. They moved there from the Dayton, OH area where they had been long-time residents to be close Joe Guarini (prior to his death) and his ministry work.
She was a typical young woman seeing the possibilities and potentials life had to offer, with a family (corps) for the first time in her life. She was growing up, had come out of her shell and loved God with all her heart. There was something about her that drew others to her. She had a great sense of humor and was a loving young lady. She was growing up.
Her world was shattered when they threw her out.
Who was she? A wonderful young woman, loved by her brother, others and God. No different than any of us really.
Thank you Sunesis.
I imagine her recollections about living in Russia must have been quite fascinating.
I'm trying to recall her brother in Connecticut, and whether I had met him or not.
I hate to ask this, but when Rochelle died, was there a service & funeral for her?
It's absolutely unsettling to me that she died alone, in a hotel room in Columbus.
Had anyone close to her visited that hotel room in which she passed away?
I don't know if there was a service or memorial. I was at H.Q. It was pretty much hushed up at H.Q. Maybe there was a lunch announcement? I really don't remember. My memory may be wrong, but I don't think there was any kind of service. It wasn't spoken about. Maybe her brother did something. He was absolutely devasted. I have thought of and prayed from him over the years.
More has been said about the building of that $%#%$# trailer than the reaction or lack of action by LCM/VPW, etc. That's tragic.
It's tragic that some refuse to see the significance of TWI's depraved indifference to the safety of LEAD participants, in particular the ill-fated LEAD 104 - for whom The Way International showed more contempt than compassion.
The trailer is a key to the event - not just the physical causes, but the reasons behind those causes.
those of you wish to argue in a thread dedicated to her memory, well, could you please ( and I mean this in the most polite way) take it to another thread or if it is just 2 of you, pricate topic eachother or something. For me listening and reading this other stuff is like a fight breaking out at a memorial.
Really? Well it reminds me of a memorial breaking out in the middle of a public square, because the people protesting the most couldn't make the effort of posting a true memorial to Rochelle in the "In Memoriam" Forum, where memorials are appropriate.
HCW started this thread as a factual account of the events (and presumably, causes) that led to poor Rochelle's fate. He dedicated the thread to her memory, and rightly so.
This thread is contentious because it concerns ERROR, FAULT, TRAGEDY at Way World. People have strong feelings about those things, none of us being exactly strangers to them.
--
I re-read much of this thread, trying to figure out how it got so out of hand. Things really turned against yours truly when I began to turn up the heat on Way leadership. Isn't that interesting? If you'll trouble yourselves to review the thread, if you can stop throwing stones for just a moment, you might begin to wonder yourselves.
HCW pretty much suddenly started taking offense where none (yes NONE) was intended. Remember "Satori, can you READ?" It's bothered me, to be honest. You who know me will concede that I've never shied away from expressing my contrarian "judgement." I say what I think. I think I was pretty clear - about fault and responsibility, and so on. Either HCW has a major chip on his shoulder (only here for me), or I have to wonder what's happening behind the scenes.
Why would HCW suddenly have a real problem with me, when I'm not trying to give him a hard time, unless people are telling him (with friendly advice) that I'm the bad guy here? What in my posts would make him think so, and to such an extreme?
I don't mind being the "bad guy" if I believe I'm in the right. I'm not complaining about the sudden stampede of critics. Like someone said, it's like the "nibbling of ducks." Painless. What I'm saying is, there seems to be a concerted effort to change the subject. A lot of you went from saying my posts were "spot-on," etc, to mean, venomous, etc.
Conspiracy theory? Yeah, sure. Just a theory.
This shouldn't be considered a derail, or about me. It's about the things I've brought up, and the concerted effort to divert you from what I've been saying.
WayGB? There's a thought. Is there a precedent? Why sure, keeds. Didn't Waydale's founder do the same thing on Trancenet before he left the fold? Wasn't one of his duties to .... with the posters, get them to fight, etc? Ya don't think they'd try that again, do ya?
I don't care if you guys hate me. I really don't. I do care about the truth, and it's not being served. I think HCW deserves a lot of credit, but I also think some people out there are messin' with him, and with Greasespot. It's not about me. It really isn't. I'm just another "weenie" here, and content with that.
My conduct hasn't been perfect. I regret responding to Catcup, despite her provocations. (Read for yourself.) Other things. There's still a bigger picture here. Can you see it?
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HCW
As far as standing up, talking back. People did that a lot, especially after POP. People got "mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!" Of my personal pet peeves was the whole money thing. T
HAPe4me
I never participated in it, but I always thought it sounded like "Outward Bound", which has been measurably more successful in achieving it's participant's goals.
So_crates
Yes, but then there's the counter teaching: If you obey the MOG, God will bless you. So what do you do when the MOG orders you to act recklessly? Rhetorical question. SoCrates
act2
HCW and Sunesis, thank you so very much for sharing Rochelle's story and life with us.
I had to walk away from this thread many times to keep from crying.
God Bless Rochelle's family.
God Bless you, HCW, for laying your heart out on the line for us.
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waterbuffalo
Thanks Oak and Ala for the recap
:)-->
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waterbuffalo
After rereading parts of this thread, I began to wonder: Where would we all be today if the corps had been a place to BUILD people in a loving, caring, mentoring environment?
Would Rochelle still be alive? Would we all still be with the way?
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grasshopper
soltolly:
you one boo koo clazy G.I.
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igotout
Being kicked out of the Corps was devastating to most. Overnight all your friends and your environment of commitment was gone.
Add to that the circumstances of this story and it is a tradgedy. Back then there was no Internet forum to share on, no way to stay in touch except by snail mail or once a year at the ROA.
God bless Rochelle and her brother AL wherever he may be.
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oldiesman
I can definitely relate. Your whole world crashes abruptly. Suicidal thoughts at 19. If it weren't for Mom & Dad, I might have actually gone thru with it. But they let me hibernate and recuperate for 2 months in my room. Then Dad kicked me out.
:D-->
He wanted me to join the army.
ha ha ha ha hha ha
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satori001
After all the fun, I'm getting back to "what happened?"
Here's a re-cap of one element which everyone seems to agree was a major contributing factor.
What's the real story of the trailer?
Who on the staff built it? Was it pretty sturdy? Was it properly balanced? Was it aerodynamically suitable for "highway speeds?"
Where did their plans come from? Were any safety specifications followed? Had it ever been inspected or approved for its intended use? Was it "legal?"
Why didn't TWI go out and buy one that was manufactured to the latest safety specifications? (Howard Allen was in charge, right? How much money did his decision to build a make-shift trailer, if it was his, save the ministry? We don't know how much it may have cost LEAD 104, in medical bills. There's no dollar value on the harm they suffered.)
Were there photos taken of the trailer? How about after the accident, for investigation or insurance purposes?
------------
The following remarks are copied from posts related to the trailer:
February 02, 2005 3:46
HCW
We were pulling a trailer that the LEAD staff had built out of wood framing and aluminum siding. It was about the size of a small U-Haul and had all of the luggage, back-packs & sack lunches for the 30 of us in LEAD 104.
-
Kevin started to take corrective action. (He pulled the truck to the right until all the wheels on the right side of the truck were in the gravel shoulder, including the trailer. We were bouncing but not ot badly.) Then we started to lose it. When he turned to the left to get the truck back all the way on the road the truck bounced violently.
It seemed like when the trailer came back up onto the road it bounced up and to the left pulling the rear of the truck fishtailing it to the left with it. Kevin did a counter-steer to the left to correct the skid without hitting the brakes. We were still going about 50mph at this point.
-
The trailer flipped up like a slingshot. Up over and foreward. Some people were catapaulted out of the truck, those that weren't scrunched. The trailer missed EVERYONE and hit the back of the cab, exploding on impact.
-
February 02, 2005
alfakat
Everything run on a frickin shoe-string... home-made trailer, my a$$...surprised the truck wasn't home-made, too. Too cheap and tight-a$$ed to do things right, like the world....
--
February 02, 2005
shazdancer
Legal or illegal, I think I knew back in the early 80's that riding in the back of a pickup is dangerous. And to throw 15 people back there, at 50 m.p.h., and add a homemade trailer...
--
Feb 3
HCW, quoting LCM
"There were two sudden, simultaneously powerful gusts of wind. One from the left then another from the right that picked up the trailer and swung it around one way then immediately back the other way. The trailer pulled the truck to one side. When the driver tried to correct the skid, he overcorrected and the truck went off the road and crashed into a ravine...."
Then he [Martindale] said that the people in the traing truck had told they saw the trailer bouncing and whipping the truck around like a rag doll.
--
Feb 4
jackmm
Just doing a little thinking/figuring here. They were riding in a Ford pickup truck, correct? So, let’s say it was an F250 ¾ ton truck. My figuring says that means it can carry 1500lbs of payload. That includes everything and everyone in the cab and the bed and the tongue weight of the trailer.
I’m averaging a weight of 150lbs multiplied by 16 people equals 2400lbs. Now add in some tongue weight of the trailer and the truck was very much overloaded. It was almost certainly loaded with an aft heavy center of gravity and the tongue weight adding to it. That means a very light front end and very easy to over steer.
Was the trailer hitch mounted to the bumper or the frame of the truck? Did the weight of the trailer exceed the maximum towing capacity of the truck/bumper/frame?
Yeah, everything’s gotta be perfect for the head grifter and cohorts. But the peons at the bottom of the food chain gotta use magic/believe god (don’t remember who said that) to cover for .... they shouldn’t have to even think about. And when their magic/believing god doesn’t work they get raked over the coals.
--
Feb 6
Jim
trailers are notoriously unstable in gusty conditions, the vehicle was overloaded, and by the time Kevin realized the situation was out of control, it was too late to do anything about it. The only thing else I would add is that the vehicle was totally inappropriate for the job.
A couple of months ago my daughter came into my office, shaking and her face pale. She was on the freeway, following a pickup with a trailer. A gust of wind hit, the pickup and trailer fishtailed and the trailer flipped on it's side right in front of her. It was her first really close call as a driver.
--
Feb 6
dmiller
It was May of 1985 I went on LEAD, and it was one of those "traveling sessions" they held. The one I went to was in the Black Hills of South Dakota.
We all met at the local mall, parked vehicles there for the week, and transfered all our camping stuff into the LEAD vehicle. I don't remember what kind of truck they had, but it was a big one pulling one of those sturdy Wells Cargo trailers behind it.
They piled as many of us as they could in the back of their truck (there were about 25 to 30 of us on this session), and conscripted two other people (who had a full-sized truck, and a station wagon) to transport the rest of us to the starting point. Since all our gear was in the Wells Cargo trailer, they deemed two extra vehicles *enough* to get us all to the site.
(my note: I included this post to point out that somebody at TWI had sprung for a "store-bought" trailer by 1985. Coincidence?)
--
Feb 7
HCW
AS he was grasping the paper with BOTH hands firmly on the steering wheel, eyes on the road. WE both went like, whoa! when the wind caused the truck to shudder and the trailer to hop...to the left so that the truck moved to the right.
The truck was heading to a perpendicular position with the front pointing to the the right and the back was heading towards the left. Had Kevin not had enough driving skill and poise and arm strength to correct a 50mph skid with at least a ton of people in the bed, while pulling a trailer loaded with about 8 or 900lbs...
--
Feb 7
HCW
The wind was a constant. The trailer, its weight and the towing capacity of the truck - all constants. Our speed was the variable that put us at the location of the ditch.
--
Feb 7
HCW
I'm honestly not sure that not doing the paper thing, in and of itself, would have prevented the crash. The weight of our load, the trailer itself, I think was more of a factor. The there was the wind. There are invisible wind "lanes" where it normally blows through where you can be driving along in a gentle breeze then WHAM, you're in it.
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washingtonweather
you know---
this reminds me to a degree of Tom Mitchell and the way TWI just defamed and destroyed his reputation.
The thing that those of us who survive these disraught souls can do is restore honor and dignity and affirm their lives...the way just swept these people under the rug...including many ex-way leaders who today still won't acknowledge the disgraceful way they acted. I was in the corpse with HCW, matter of fact knew each others for years before all of that...I also knew Rochelle and loved her.
those of you wish to argue in a thread dedicated to her memory, well, could you please ( and I mean this in the most polite way) take it to another thread or if it is just 2 of you, pricate topic eachother or something. For me listening and reading this other stuff is like a fight breaking out at a memorial.
and
Thank you Sunesis!
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satori001
Was there any news coverage of the accident in the Roswell paper (Roswell Daily Record)?
Has anyone involved with the accident (other than TWI "leadership") ever seen the police report?
This isn't asked for argument's sake, but to complete the record as much as possible, in accordance with the thread's title.
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ChasUFarley
satori001-
I asked you an *honest* question and thought I had made clear that I did not want to engage on the issue. Your response further proves you are not capable of taking what people write at "face-value", but at this time you are seeking opportunities to lash out at others as you see fit on this thread - regardless of whether or not they are lashing out at *YOU*.
Your response to me was rude and uncalled for, considering my post to you. I clearly stated my intent and my motives. If you read anything differently then *YOU* read into my post. I found your comment interesting but since it wasn't backed up with evidence, I wanted to know what made you think and state what you did.
That's not what I asked for.
My handle is ChasUFarley and has been for over 5 years. You knew that when you posted earlier. You also knew I asked *YOU* a question - not anyone else. If I want to know more about another poster's posts, I will ask them.
What is motivating you right now to be so vindictive?
I don't know which is more tragic - the LEAD accident/coverup or the direction this thread has taken...
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Steve!
Chas - don't you think that's a bit, um, extreme? How can you compare conversations - no matter how heated - with injuries and death?
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satori001
Chas, I will answer you by private topic. Anybody else with pressing issues like this one, you're welcome to keep them off this thread, and bring them to me directly.
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Jim
It's a little late. You've run off HCW, royally ....ed off Catcup and derailed the thread into the next county. Just give it a rest for awhile.
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ChasUFarley
Steve!
Please accept my apologies if I offended you. There's no ill-will meant by my comment.
Let me clarify my previous post -
It's saddens me that this thread has gone in the direction that it has considering the situation (accident/cover-up) that it was intended to shed light on. Both things I mentioned are tragic - yes, certainly the accident and a young lady's death the *more tragic event* of the two. The thread has been more than distracted from the poster's intent and, in my opinion, soiled.
Doesn't Rochelle deserve better than this?
What about some of the people named who showed integrity during this time?
More has been said about the building of that $%#%$# trailer than the reaction or lack of action by LCM/VPW, etc. That's tragic.
I have a personal interest in this story because I knew some of the WC people mentioned in HCW's posts. I had no idea about the accident, as it was never discussed. It put one of them, especially, in a very different light for me. Many things were never discussed, come to think of it - not just this.
Steve - again, I am sorry.
Thanks for listening.
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satori001
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satori001
The title of the thread:
The L.E.A.D. accident. What happened?
I still think it's a good question. It was dedicated to Rochelle, if I recall. It was not to be a eulogy, though she has been eulogized, and deserves to be.
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jardinero
Two quick things:
1) for those of you who did not notice, the content of HCW's story, without other's comments is posted in its entirety on the My Story thread.
2) Rochelle's brother, Al, is alive and well living with his wife and 3 children in the Chicago area. They moved there from the Dayton, OH area where they had been long-time residents to be close Joe Guarini (prior to his death) and his ministry work.
J.
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TheInvisibleDan
Thank you Sunesis.
I imagine her recollections about living in Russia must have been quite fascinating.
I'm trying to recall her brother in Connecticut, and whether I had met him or not.
I hate to ask this, but when Rochelle died, was there a service & funeral for her?
It's absolutely unsettling to me that she died alone, in a hotel room in Columbus.
Had anyone close to her visited that hotel room in which she passed away?
Thanks.
Danny
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A la prochaine
Washingtonweather,
Well put my friend.
Sunesis
Thank you.
In the lines of what Satori asks at the top of this page...
Is there a law about transporting people in the back of a pick-up truck in New-Mexico?
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Sunesis
I don't know if there was a service or memorial. I was at H.Q. It was pretty much hushed up at H.Q. Maybe there was a lunch announcement? I really don't remember. My memory may be wrong, but I don't think there was any kind of service. It wasn't spoken about. Maybe her brother did something. He was absolutely devasted. I have thought of and prayed from him over the years.
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satori001
The trailer is a key to the event - not just the physical causes, but the reasons behind those causes.
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washingtonweather
I can verify it was not I repeat NOT discussed in Emporia with the 11th wc.
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Sunesis
So Washingtonweather, the 11th WC had no clue? You were never told? Woah...
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satori001
HCW started this thread as a factual account of the events (and presumably, causes) that led to poor Rochelle's fate. He dedicated the thread to her memory, and rightly so.
This thread is contentious because it concerns ERROR, FAULT, TRAGEDY at Way World. People have strong feelings about those things, none of us being exactly strangers to them.
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I re-read much of this thread, trying to figure out how it got so out of hand. Things really turned against yours truly when I began to turn up the heat on Way leadership. Isn't that interesting? If you'll trouble yourselves to review the thread, if you can stop throwing stones for just a moment, you might begin to wonder yourselves.
HCW pretty much suddenly started taking offense where none (yes NONE) was intended. Remember "Satori, can you READ?" It's bothered me, to be honest. You who know me will concede that I've never shied away from expressing my contrarian "judgement." I say what I think. I think I was pretty clear - about fault and responsibility, and so on. Either HCW has a major chip on his shoulder (only here for me), or I have to wonder what's happening behind the scenes.
Why would HCW suddenly have a real problem with me, when I'm not trying to give him a hard time, unless people are telling him (with friendly advice) that I'm the bad guy here? What in my posts would make him think so, and to such an extreme?
I don't mind being the "bad guy" if I believe I'm in the right. I'm not complaining about the sudden stampede of critics. Like someone said, it's like the "nibbling of ducks." Painless. What I'm saying is, there seems to be a concerted effort to change the subject. A lot of you went from saying my posts were "spot-on," etc, to mean, venomous, etc.
Conspiracy theory? Yeah, sure. Just a theory.
This shouldn't be considered a derail, or about me. It's about the things I've brought up, and the concerted effort to divert you from what I've been saying.
WayGB? There's a thought. Is there a precedent? Why sure, keeds. Didn't Waydale's founder do the same thing on Trancenet before he left the fold? Wasn't one of his duties to .... with the posters, get them to fight, etc? Ya don't think they'd try that again, do ya?
I don't care if you guys hate me. I really don't. I do care about the truth, and it's not being served. I think HCW deserves a lot of credit, but I also think some people out there are messin' with him, and with Greasespot. It's not about me. It really isn't. I'm just another "weenie" here, and content with that.
My conduct hasn't been perfect. I regret responding to Catcup, despite her provocations. (Read for yourself.) Other things. There's still a bigger picture here. Can you see it?
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