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Mel's movie... "the Passion"

Al Poole

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I love you but I disagree.

The subtitles are distracting. sometimes they are not on the screen long enough to read...

When I was crying, I had to remove my glasses then I could not see the sub titles...

If you KNOW the story of Jesus you can follow it. I was hoping it would be a movie to take folks that do NOT know the story and perhaps they could see the Jesus who saved us. I wanted this to be my favorite movie of all time. I went there ready to be in Mel’s corner, I left feeling he missed it.

All I saw was this poor guy get the crap beaten out of him for over two hours. I saw NO power in this Jesus. It was depressing to me. I did not feel the victory of the resurrection as it was a tiny little bleep at the very VERY end of a long tortured man named Jesus.

Now my husband who has nothing to do with TWI - having never been involved hated it and thought it portrayed a defeated Christ.

One of the things in writing and film I learned is to NOT take your people out of the story.

That is why the shaky camera did not last. It made the viewer “pull out” of the story and realize you were watching "camera work". Or a story that uses unfamiliar words, the reader has to lay the book down and go seek a dictionary. It PULLS the reader out of the story.

The subtitles - to me - pulled me out of the story and hindered me from really feeling like I was there. I could not get lost in the film because of the subtitles. And if I just watched it, knowing the story, to me it was like watching a guy get pulverized in an ultimate fighting championship or something.

It is important for us to know what Jesus went through for us, but to me, the resurection has to be a larger part of the story to balance out all the vilolence and to drive home the point that Jesus accomplished our salvation. I do not think that is WAY brain but Christian.

If you think it is a feel good movie and you go to feel good about Jesus -- Well, you may not feel that way when you leave.


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To each his own, Dot. But we're not in disagreement over the subtitles. Just ignore them, is what I was trying to say. If you're adept at seeing foreign films, which I'm not, they're easy to embrace. But the point is that there's really not a lot of dialogue, and the actors went through this believing there would be no subtitles, so everything is acted physically as well as in words.

Did we really need subtitles to see what Peter was saying to Mary after he denied Jesus three times?

The only time I felt we needed subtitles was to hear what the devil was saying, since none of those things are taken from the gospel.

My one quibble with the movie, as a movie, was that scene where the devil is carrying the bald midget as a Madonna and child mockery. Didn't do anything for me.

My one quibble with the movie, doctrinally, is that everyone referred to Mary as "mother," which is not Biblical. John is seen calling Mary "mother" several times, so that when Jesus tells him "Son, behold your mother," that statement is drained of impact. I have no problem with Catholics making a movie that exalts a Catholic view, but when it specifically ruins a plot moment, I think it's okay to be a little critical.

I don't think this movie will help anyone who is unfamiliar with the story. What I think it will do is take those people who are familiar with the rote memorization of "Jesus loves me, he died for me," and make it live. I saw, God forgive me, thugs in the theater with me. Genuine jerks with no respect for anyone at the beginning of the movie. Screaming, laughing, acting like punks. Then the movie started and at the end, those same people were in tears. Could it be that all those Sunday school lessons they blissfully ignored while growing up finally registered with some of these folks? I hope so. I truly hope so.

An atheist won't see this movie and emerge a believer. A Jew won't emerge a Christian. But a lapsed Christian might emerge a committed one. A strong Christian might emerge a more compassionate one.

No, I did not leave feeling good. I left feeling I had failed him, repeatedly. I broke down and sobbed like an infant on my way out of the theater (most people had left already).

This was a daring production, remarkably well-acted, painful to watch. If it were about any other subject, Hollywood would be inventing new awards to bestow upon it.

My opinion. I'm entitled.

[This message was edited by Rafael 1969 on February 29, 2004 at 18:35.]

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well, from one hard of hearing person, subtitles are a requirement. In fact my most compassionate son said, "Mom, you will be one step ahead of most people seeing this movie because you are used to the subtitles." anim-smile.gif

And Rafael, I set next to one of those guys as well. (It had me in tears being so close to him. I just pretended it was the movie making me cry.)

icon_smile.gif:)-->," God

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I don't know, Jonny. I can't speak for them.

The movie is not doctrinal, it's devotional. It's not for learning, but for feeling. I can imagine someone being so moved by Jesus' commitment and perseverance that he would want to know what Christ taught and believed, but that's just speculating.

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Of course you are entitled or even subtitled to an opinion. icon_smile.gif:)-->

I just got off the phone with my Catholic friend. Now, this may have been brought up as I did not read the thread. I saw the movie and posted...

"The passion" is the time perod from the garden to the burial. I, not being catholic, thought it was about Jesus's passion for us.

My friend said no it is about the period he was betrayed and beaten and they crucified him!

So, being as it is a movie about that "specific time period" then it was done well. The resurection was not apart of that period.

I did not know it was a catholic thing... So, he did show "that period" very well. As I said, I thought the passion was about "the passion of Christ" and was sick they did not show much of the risen Christ.

So, now that I know it was a time period that he was showing (and that is why the resurection was just about not represented) I would say it was very well done.

BUT I still take issue with the subtitles.

I need a big DUH on my head!


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Hope you said

I have heard that the resurrection isn't part of the story line at all. In one interview I heard, a Methodist minister said: "I'm a Methodist, we got Jesus off the cross!" He was a bit surprised that the resurrection wasn't in the film. He said the whole tenet of Christianity is that JC rose from the dead. Thousands were crucified by the Romans - remember "Sparticus"? But the fact that JC got up made him the Messiah - not the fact that he died.

I don't know - I tend to agree with him even though I'm not necessarily a heavy-duty Christian any more. If it's not in the film - it should have been - it makes more sense that way.

That is exactly how I felt and what was missing to me--

But I did not know "the passion" is a catholic phrase for the period from the garden to the grave. That part of Jesus's life was horrible and you do see how horrible.

I wish the resurection was shown. Maybe Mel should have called it something like "the passion and resurection" and included it.

To me the whole thing about Jesus is the fact that he did that for us and then GOT UP FROM THE DEAD as the risen and victorious Christ.


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Dot, I could be wrong, but I don't think it's just a Catholic thing.

This is from Webster's Revised Unabridged, ©1996,1998, MICRA, Inc.:

Pas"sion, n. [F., fr. L. passio, fr. pati, passus, to suffer. See Patient.] 1. A suffering or enduring of imposed or inflicted pain; any suffering or distress (as, a cardiac passion); specifically, the suffering of Christ between the time of the last supper and his death, esp. in the garden [my note: I think the word "and" is missing here] upon the cross. ``The passions of this time.'' --Wyclif (Rom. viii. 18).

To whom also he showed himself alive after his passion, by many infallible proofs. --Acts i. 3.

I haven't commented on the movie yet, because I haven't seen it. But I do want to see it.

I grew up with the "sanitized" version of Jesus. The ministers I heard talk about Him sort of glossed over his suffering, so I didn't begin to even apprehend, much less begin to appreciate, what He endured for us until I heard teachings about what a horrendous ordeal he went through for us.

The Resurrection is the "happy ending" to end all happy endings, but I don't think it hurts for people to know that Jesus wasn't Superman in a cape--that the pain and humiliation he endured for us were real.

I thought a lot about whether to see Gibson's film. I decided I would because I don't think it would hurt me to be reminded of just what a victory it was when they rolled away the stone.

Linda Z

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Just a thought, but the Catholic view of suffering is a little different (actually alot different) than the mainline Protestant view.

Ok, all you Catholics kids who were taught that it's a good thing to suffer and offer it up as a sacrifice to the Lord, raise your hands?

Maybe ya gotta be Catholic (or a former Catholic) to get it, totally?

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Originally posted by ex10:

Maybe ya gotta be Catholic (or a former Catholic) to get it, totally?

Thank you.

Anybody who has prayed the Stations of the Cross (and understood what they were praying) will understand this movie.

Anybody who has prayed the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary (and understood what they were praying) will understand this movie.

Anybody who hasn't, won't have the requisite understanding to "get" more than about 50%.

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Former Altar Boy here icon_rolleyes.gif:rolleyes:-->

As to the comments regarding the resurection, I thought that It was masterfully portrayed.

Insomuch as the Christ was beaten, mauled, scarred, nailed and pierced to the point of his being totally unrecognizable, and knowing that no human annointing of the body could have covered his disfigurement, to see, as the stone rolled back allowing the sunshine to enter the tomb, this perfect figure of a man with what could only be described as a "new body," perfectly made, stand up without so much as a scratch or wrinkle, save the wound on his hand, is testimony to the omnipotence of his Father, and the fulfillment of the Prophecy.

That last minute, IMO was the most moving of the entire film, and had the most impact on me.



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Yes, S' ter! icon_smile.gif:)-->

When I read Gibson's a Catholic, it clicked for me. He's a member of a church that refutes the stands taken by Vatican ll, a papal council that met in 1962/63. (I think it spanned the end of 62 and in to 63) You can read some of the documents from it HERE, and click on Vatican II. I was 12 at the time, at the tail end of my Catholic education and was only marginally aware of the stir it caused. In high school, I was taught for two years by Catholic priests and brothers, and they discussed it in "religion" classes. Most of my teachers were pro everything that came of it, of course, it was "the Pope" talkin'.

ex10, I do remember all of the years of having it drummed in us to "offer up" this pain, that problem. The nun who'd make us errant stoodents kneel next to her desk and pray the rosary for seemingly hours as penance. Suffering's good for the soul, boy! Pray! Offer it up!

The stations of the Cross. I was an active alter boy for a couple years. That ceremony was a long one, moving up and down the aisles and stopping at each "station" depicted in our church along the walls, to recognize a different point of Christ's suffering. You can read an English version HERE. In the 50's and early 60's anyway, they were all in Latin though. I can still remember the church in the afternoon, sunlight streaming through the stained glass windows. Uh oh. Had a "catholic moment" there. icon_smile.gif:)--> Back to topic.

In line, in line, it's all in a line. My ducks are all in a row.

They do not change, they do not move. They have nowhere to go.

James Taylor

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My buddy says he can not read and watch the movie at the same time , he is afraid he will miss half the movie. He speaks four languages !

I think alot of folks feel this way because some movies move fast and you may miss some of the action.

not this one. the words do not really add to much to the movie .

it is typical Mel gibson blood and guts and gore tho and if you have a easy nerve for beating and repeated beatings it may not work well for you for great entertainment.

I did not get so inspried and yes I did way brain it some my very catholic friend was inspired.

I just looked at her with ???? and didnt get why at all. maybe cause I know the ending.

the movie is made for the film making it is the film direction and the shots that will grap your interest. (if your a movie buff0

the most talking was when he was asking the crowd who should die really maybe four or five sentences at the most at a time. If you miss it you will still understand what is going on and how clearly.

do not be intimidated by subtitles. not in this movie like Raf said they add very little to the movie and can be shown without them without losing to much clarity .

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"To whom also he showed himself alive after his passion, by many infallible proofs. --Acts i. 3."

I never knew that meant after all his suffering.

I never knew passion meant suffering. I thought it was a "strong feeling". Learn something knew everyday!

--- --- --- --- ---

If I knew that THE PASSION was about the garden to the grave -- that portion only -- I would have understood it better or choose not to go.

My Protestant husband and I drove home sickened by the whole thing. He kept saying, "Why didn't they show some of his miracles and the cool things he did?" I kept saying, "Where was the risen Christ?"

I had no idea "The Passion" was the period from the garden to the grave. I was raised Lutheran then I was Pentecostal, then that whole cult thing, now I go to a Baptist church and I NEVER heard the period between the garden and the grave called "the passion". I admit I did not pay a lot of attention in the classes, but I don't think the Protestant church teaches that, or at least often enough for MY retention.

Surely, my expectations would have been very different had I known this...

I kept thinking why is Mel only focusing on these horrible beatings? Enough already.

If I knew "The Passion" kind of meant "The beating, suffering and crucifixion of Christ" I would have felt Mel DID capture that and capture it very well.

Linda Z go see it and see if you see him as victorious. You may. I did not. I felt so badly for him I wanted to yell at the screen, "STOP beating him!"

To me, the terrible things that Jesus went through are really only understood when we look at WHY he did it. Jesus’ life in whole - I think. To just show that horrible part was too horrific for words... to me - Protestant that I am.

I guess the x-Catholics did understand it FAR better than we (my hubs and I) did.

They were brought up around the suffering of Christ more than this Protestant ever was. I recall my Catholic friends speaking of their Catholic guilt and I still have NO idea what they are talking about.

A friend of mine told me she wore something called a scapula(?) It was a necklace that would scrape her neck and kind of leave a brush burn and this was to bring her closer to Christ. So, I just had her sign the green card and get out of that whole thing! icon_smile.gif:)--> ha ha ha

So, I do not understand why people really want to focus just on Christ's suffering. I would have preferred a more balanced look at Christ. Maybe Mel will do "the resurrection".... icon_smile.gif:)-->


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Dot, this may be why Gibson made the movie-

I felt so badly for him I wanted to yell at the screen, "STOP beating him!"

That reaction must have been exactly what His disciples felt at the time. It's all come to this? STOP!!! HE DOESN'T DESERVE THIS!

Dunno. I keep hearing so many different reactions from people. I don't know if this is how Gibson intended it, but it's causing people to examine what they think about Jesus Christ. People that normally don't talk about going to church or their religion where I work are saying stuff like "but there's more to it than that". Interesting.

In line, in line, it's all in a line. My ducks are all in a row.

They do not change, they do not move. They have nowhere to go.

James Taylor

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ex10, my wifester wore that outfit. She looks GREAT in plaid, pleated skirts. icon_biggrin.gif:D--> Just can't get her to wear them anymore! (she'd whack me for saying that, I'm sure!)

Incense, yup. I remember carrying that incense thingie up and down the aisles. Rather medieval, the pomp and ceremony. I don't miss any of it. But the churches are beautiful, if you get rid of the weird statues staring at you. Spooky! icon_eek.gif

In line, in line, it's all in a line. My ducks are all in a row.

They do not change, they do not move. They have nowhere to go.

James Taylor

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Isaiah 53

1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way;

and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,

so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death,

though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

This passage from Issiah may help tie it together a bit.

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'what did they do to us?'

Can we really know or understand in a short time?

"we are not a religion"

"we are the truth and The Way"

"we have the truth"

"we rightly divide the Word of God"

"we are not the 'mainstream'"

"we can all do what Christ did"

etc., etc., etc.

Seems to me ~ TWI's ignorance and their agenda will have long-lasting effects on everyone...

Sad too...

But it must be very interesting that those who thought they knew Christianity better than everyone else in the world, including other Christians, are finding out now that they only knew what some folks in Ohio wanted then to know ~

A powerful piece like this makes some think, after all this time, that they don't have the world and Christianity on a string after all...what's next?


I'm glad if eyes are opening ~

If nothing else...that Ohio was limited, and they were, as well.

Christianity ~ or no Christianity

There's a wide world out here with lots of information...about EVERYTHING.

For that I thank Mel Gibson.

A cure for waybrain, maybe not, but a beginning...SURE!

Loose the filters Friends, and you'll feel less isolated and become more informed.

Ginger Tea

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What gets me, Ginger, is the claims of some relatively young denominations (including some cults which will remain nameless) who claim to be "the first century church."

Remember the Bible Lands tour, where these sites that have been recognized for 2000 years were identified as false? Yeah, right.

I especially like the signs of this one denomination which has prominently posted on their signs, "Established 33 A.D."

icon_confused.gif:confused:--> icon_confused.gif:confused:-->

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As it goes, in order for one to be right, another must be wrong.

The only unifying characteristic of most religions is this ~ squabbing

...we were here first

...we have the Word

...we are more spiritual

...we believe this

...we believe that.

And some have heard from God more recently than the rest!

Where is the unity?

What is the purpose?

It would be nice to have 'faith' without all the disharmony, wouldn't it?

Too many people need pat answers.

In our society, the only ones you can guarantee today that are hearing 'voices' from on high are schizophrenic.

Yeah, that's a broad brush, but how far from the truth is that?

With so many faiths and many more doctrines existing in this world...why is it important that 'I believe' what someone else does

...or doesn't

...or else, you know?

Maybe we'll rumble, our churches

...midnight, at the empty parking lot.

Christ's path, left alone to inspire each individuals life, is perhaps the best we could grasp and hold onto...Christ, and other great teachers of humanity.

If the doctrinal wars could take more than a back seat, wouldn't this planet be a safer, less fearful place to share with mankind?

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition...sad to say, is the 'following' de jour in many tongues.

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