Oaks queried "How much of the crap that went on "on the field" did Wierwille know about?
Sometimes I read accounts of teachings and counselling that deviated from what was taught in PFAL, or actions that contradicted what Wierwille espoused publically."
remember, vic taught stuff one way at raca, sometimes different to corps or clergy groups.
He was a master at the secret doctrine stuff. I would say early on that he knew pretty much what happened on the field. After 76/77/78 I believe he was less aware of things first hand. Post-82 he probably was more and more out of the loop. But he certainly had set the tone and backed up the actions of the leadership from the 1rst corps on. The idea promoted on this board by some that vic did NOT set the tone of the leadership -- is BOGUS. He was at turns incredibly charming and an insufferable bully. If you were not there, YOU DO NOT KNOW. Many, enough to know, were....
Kork-Nazi-ism increased at a geometric rate post-raca 78. Why??? I don't know but the fact that it did was noticed by myself and all of my compatriots that I knew in the kork...of course, those who were among the Nazi element noticed nothing wrong in the slightest....
Yes he knew a lot and didn't do anything. Sometimes he would berate other for not doing anything about it too.
But it's like people that head up a corporation that has engaged in criminal behavior and say they didn't know. If they knew, they are complicit. If they really didn't know they are incompitent and should be held legally liable for allowing such behavior to happen.
Reminds me of a guy who sends others off to war under false pretenses, but this is the wrong thread.
I can think of one first hand example, though minor, of VP not knowing about something. In early '84 he came to STL for a area fellowship. During the milling around after the fellowship he noticed that the bookstore had that Earl Burton book 'Spiritual Phenomena in the senses realm' for sale. He immediately ordered it removed and vowed to find out who caused the mistake. Apparently, he didn't want that book available to the ministry general public.
Wierwille made the rules but his "leaders" on the field had plenty of room for doing their "own thing". Region leaders, limb leaders, etc...Veepee wanted them to take care of all the details so that he could sashay into the room and sip his drambuie. Often times, he would bark out some new directive and everybody would conform to it...but most of these guys had plenty of elbow room to become kings in their own little kingdoms.
I think as the ministry grew, Veepee became frustrated because he could not control things the way that he desired to. He simply could not keep up with all the decisions that had to be made.
...But Veepee knew where the bodies were buried and who dug the graves. He knew plenty about what was going on...
From what I could tell, Wierwille fostered the attitude of "don't ask how high, just jump", and "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to a command", and many field leaders would rush to implement the "suggestion" by not asking how high -->
Wierwille would wonder why something was being done when it was an ill-considered remark that he had made that started it.
Good point Oak...Veepee equated blind obedience with spiritual maturity. That's the main reason why loyboy was selected as the next "bearer of the mantle". Nobody kissed Veepee's big German foot as well as the okie wannabe did.
...and I believe you're right. Oftentimes Veepee would say something at a meeting like..."some of you younger guys outta do that...", just speaking off the cuff and probably half in the bag from too much drambuie...and sure as ...., some zealous young corps grad with a nametag and no brains, would proceed to build a dichotomy of doctrinal directives, developing it into a "program" and then raising the flag of spiritual credibilty on it, because afterall, the mog had "said it".
A lot of that happened and as Vic got older, he watched it slip out of his hands. To add insult to injury, he had to witness loyboy dancing around in tights as his life's work was going down the terlet. What goes around, comes around.
You might want to consider this. Way doctrine taught us every problem in the world was caused by a devil spirit(s). So if all these issues with corps were brought to light then the corps must be infilitrated by devil spirits right? Well then VP and leaders simply buried everything that came out. As far as rank and file were concerned everything was just peachy. That was the game plan...keep rank and file Way taxpayers fat, dumb and happy.
...and to follow on with that, t-crat, IF the corps was so loaded, who were their teachers....?
the corps was what veepeeewee set it up to be, you can be certain of that. LCM, at least circa 74-81, was only carrying out vic's veeee-sion for the corps. Not that there was not plenty of useful stuff taught but still to what end?? the ones who became the rising stars rose because they licked and kicked...and we all know which direction got licked and which got kicked, now don't we, keeeeeddzz??? --> :(--> --> :P-->
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excathedra
he knew plenty
and more often than not, he sided with his mini-mogs even when they were dead wrong
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alfakat
Oaks queried "How much of the crap that went on "on the field" did Wierwille know about?
Sometimes I read accounts of teachings and counselling that deviated from what was taught in PFAL, or actions that contradicted what Wierwille espoused publically."
remember, vic taught stuff one way at raca, sometimes different to corps or clergy groups.
He was a master at the secret doctrine stuff. I would say early on that he knew pretty much what happened on the field. After 76/77/78 I believe he was less aware of things first hand. Post-82 he probably was more and more out of the loop. But he certainly had set the tone and backed up the actions of the leadership from the 1rst corps on. The idea promoted on this board by some that vic did NOT set the tone of the leadership -- is BOGUS. He was at turns incredibly charming and an insufferable bully. If you were not there, YOU DO NOT KNOW. Many, enough to know, were....
Kork-Nazi-ism increased at a geometric rate post-raca 78. Why??? I don't know but the fact that it did was noticed by myself and all of my compatriots that I knew in the kork...of course, those who were among the Nazi element noticed nothing wrong in the slightest....
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My3Cents
Yes he knew a lot and didn't do anything. Sometimes he would berate other for not doing anything about it too.
But it's like people that head up a corporation that has engaged in criminal behavior and say they didn't know. If they knew, they are complicit. If they really didn't know they are incompitent and should be held legally liable for allowing such behavior to happen.
Reminds me of a guy who sends others off to war under false pretenses, but this is the wrong thread.
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johniam
I can think of one first hand example, though minor, of VP not knowing about something. In early '84 he came to STL for a area fellowship. During the milling around after the fellowship he noticed that the bookstore had that Earl Burton book 'Spiritual Phenomena in the senses realm' for sale. He immediately ordered it removed and vowed to find out who caused the mistake. Apparently, he didn't want that book available to the ministry general public.
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alfakat
yeah, john, by 84 I am sure he was not consulted on much anymore....
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excathedra
(apologies.... to all the folks i bored before, thanks willie)
me: answers phone
wierwille: i hear you have a problen with MY MAN (out on the field)
me: (thinking "oh sheet he called him HIS MAN")
yes i do, YOUR man told my friend he was no longer welcome at the way. this dear friend of mine is dying of a broken heart and may even kill himself
wierwille: HOW LONG DO I HAVE TO SUCK YOUR CORPS ASSES ?
me: ummmmmmm ummmmmmm ummmmmmmm i thought we were always welcome at the way
wierwille: more profanities YOU WORK IT OUT
me: ummmmmmm ummmmmm well do you think you could find it in your heart to pray for my friend ?
wierwille: I GUESS SO (more profantiies go here) SLAMS phone down
**
well it went something very very close to that
ahhhhhhh how i love that gentleness of god that leads a man to.....
....
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A la prochaine
How vile!!!
:(-->
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dmiller
Alfacat -- What does raca stand for?
-->
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TheEvan
Raca Ages
("raca" appears in your KJV. Look it up. More silliness. Alfa can't help it.)
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alfakat
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wyteduv58
I remember the time when he was teaching CF&sex clas and told the men not to mess with the women beleivers, then went on to do it himself.
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WordWolf
Well,
he didn't want the competition.
He'd already invested considerable time and effort with the construction of a
separate office just for that, and an 'inner circle' to hush things up and
facilitate procurement (rfr was in on that, remember) and so on.
He didn't want someone else siphoning off what he saw as "his action".
Furthermore, if the OFFICIAL STATEMENTS are always "no fooling around",
doesn't it (and DIDN'T IT) make it a LOT harder to be believed when you're
trying to tell someone he did things to you or a loved one?
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ChasUFarley
I think the more appropriate question for this thread is:
"What did Wierwille know and when did he STOP CARING?"
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GrouchoMarxJr
Wierwille made the rules but his "leaders" on the field had plenty of room for doing their "own thing". Region leaders, limb leaders, etc...Veepee wanted them to take care of all the details so that he could sashay into the room and sip his drambuie. Often times, he would bark out some new directive and everybody would conform to it...but most of these guys had plenty of elbow room to become kings in their own little kingdoms.
I think as the ministry grew, Veepee became frustrated because he could not control things the way that he desired to. He simply could not keep up with all the decisions that had to be made.
...But Veepee knew where the bodies were buried and who dug the graves. He knew plenty about what was going on...
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Oakspear
From what I could tell, Wierwille fostered the attitude of "don't ask how high, just jump", and "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to a command", and many field leaders would rush to implement the "suggestion" by not asking how high
-->
Wierwille would wonder why something was being done when it was an ill-considered remark that he had made that started it.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Good point Oak...Veepee equated blind obedience with spiritual maturity. That's the main reason why loyboy was selected as the next "bearer of the mantle". Nobody kissed Veepee's big German foot as well as the okie wannabe did.
...and I believe you're right. Oftentimes Veepee would say something at a meeting like..."some of you younger guys outta do that...", just speaking off the cuff and probably half in the bag from too much drambuie...and sure as ...., some zealous young corps grad with a nametag and no brains, would proceed to build a dichotomy of doctrinal directives, developing it into a "program" and then raising the flag of spiritual credibilty on it, because afterall, the mog had "said it".
A lot of that happened and as Vic got older, he watched it slip out of his hands. To add insult to injury, he had to witness loyboy dancing around in tights as his life's work was going down the terlet. What goes around, comes around.
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ex10
ohmigosh,
Groucho, did you ever hit the proverbial nail on the head.
For a total control freak, VP sure had a way of losing control, by talking out of his drambuie head.
:D-->
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A la prochaine
HOLY MACKEREL BATMAN GROUCHO!!
Wowza..wowza...wowza!
That pretty much sums it up for me!!
I think I can go home now!
Sweet music to my ears!!
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Technocrat
You might want to consider this. Way doctrine taught us every problem in the world was caused by a devil spirit(s). So if all these issues with corps were brought to light then the corps must be infilitrated by devil spirits right? Well then VP and leaders simply buried everything that came out. As far as rank and file were concerned everything was just peachy. That was the game plan...keep rank and file Way taxpayers fat, dumb and happy.
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alfakat
...and to follow on with that, t-crat, IF the corps was so loaded, who were their teachers....?
the corps was what veepeeewee set it up to be, you can be certain of that. LCM, at least circa 74-81, was only carrying out vic's veeee-sion for the corps. Not that there was not plenty of useful stuff taught but still to what end?? the ones who became the rising stars rose because they licked and kicked...and we all know which direction got licked and which got kicked, now don't we, keeeeeddzz???
--> 
:(--> 
--> 
:P-->
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