As far as his time in college...I understand that he was a phys ed. major who rode the bench for the football team. Donny F. and Dave S. were both instrumental in recruiting Martindale into twi. His rise in the leadership ranks of twi was based mainly on 2 things...Wierwille enjoyed his "firey" teaching style...and Martindale kissed Wierwille's butt more than anyone else.
If I could communicate one thing about the man, it would be that he went off the "deep end" and became insane with delusions of grandeur.
His heavy handed, slash and burn policies highlighted his time as president. On his watch, twi lost the vast majority of it's followers. His demands for loyalty oaths, his obsessive "homo hunts", and his numerous adulterous affairs convinced thousands to walk away...Ironically, the man credited with being the most loyal to Wierwille, spearheaded a campaign to discredit most of Wierwille's teachings and purge twi of his influence.
Martindale's saw himself as a modern day Joshua, representing God to the rest of mankind...In reality, he was a self absorbed buffoon who enjoyed bullying people...today, he unloads trucks for a living.
My wife knew LCM in Oklahoma when he was but a "common believer". She said he was kind hearted and loving. My wife knew LCM's grandmother, and talked with her on frequent occasions. His grandmother said that Craig was kind as a child and had a real "heart for life". She said he was the kind of kid that didn't kill insects "just for fun". Wouldn't pull the legs off of grasshoppers and such, and challeneged other kids who did.
That was a long time ago of course, before he began his rise in the hierarchy. Personally, I think that he went from good guy to bad guy. I think that the biblical instruction that leaders should not be picked before they are mature enough spiritually is the reason for his downfall:
"...not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride..."
LCM hit on my wife one time when he was the Corps Director and married, but she just told him no and reproved him with It Is Written. He backed off and apologized. He treated her with respect after that, and me as well. But we were gone from The Way after 1990, and were not around for "round 2", when according to all that I have read here from those suffering through TWI II, things escalated way beyond anything we ever saw. Although, having been in on some of LCM's rants, I can clearly imagine how it got...
But, he was a child once, and had a heart at one time. Maybe just maybe he is remorseful and maybe as he unloads those trucks with "common men", just maybe he is working hard and trying to make up for his sins. We haven't heard of any "LCM Ministries" like some of the egomaniac ExWay revs are now doing, so maybe that is a sign of some sort of repentance..
That is SO stupid oldies....just because lcm was afraid enough of the trouble Johnny and his wife might cause him enough to back off and profusely apologise in earlier years to save his foot means SQUAT!
I know a principled young corpes woman who after months of grooming .... DID *just said no* to lcm when asked to participate in a threesom and *stood on principle* who was escorted off grounds by armed security one hour later.
She arrived at her home state only to find every believer had been warned not to speak to her lest they become posessed. (she was never permited at a way function again)
I know a 17 yr old wow that vpw did the same thing to when she refused.....it was over 20 years before her innie family believed her and stopped mistrusting her as a posessed cop out. (her innie parents were even told not to let her stay in their home)
There was the man and his wife who *stood on principle* at the advanced class (lcm profusely apoligized then as well) who arrived home to find themselves m&a and no believers allowed to speak to them.....
JEEZE o PETE Oldies, You try to make a point that the women who were coerced and raped by these slime balls somehow failed to stand on principle.....
You are once again...attempting to place blame on the person traumatized in some sick attempt to make the criminal activity practiced seem less atrocious, some how understandible and excusable....sheeshe oldies, you are an a 1 creep.
Oh n Johnny L, that is some rosey picture that you have painted of lcm.....however I feel that if it were anywhere close to being true.....he would come to grips with what he has done and make attempts to repent and apologise....haven`t heard of a single decent thing that lcm has done for anyone but himself since leaving...sorry
I think the guy is nuts, permanently irrevocably so....lots of insane people were nice when they were kids....doesn`t make them or their crimes any less heinous or the pain suffered by their victims any less intense :-(
Rerail --- I think Craig actually majored in Psychology, not phys-ed. But I believe he was there on a football scholarship, even though he was a red-shirt for most of his university career. (University of Kansas, in Lawrence,KS)
Yeah, and *I* think that it just shows how some OTHER folks love to POST evil continously for the rest of us to think about...You aren`t fooling anybody oldies.
I only know that he made my skin crawl and alarm bells go off when I watched him for the first time doing a high pressure sales pitch for pfal after the *changed fim*
It was such a turn off, imagine my chagrin when I found out a few months later that HE was going to be the new prez.....
Whew I figured there was something there that I just wasn`t spiritually *mature* enough to see.....sigh that was the story of my life in twi.
So nobody is able to come up with anything decent or specific that lcm did for anyone after becoming involved in twi.....
So my question would be...was he evil before his involvement ..... or was his association with twi and vpw in particular what led him down the path of darkness?
Was he like vpw a sexual predator BEFORE his involvement and vpw`s doctrine give him a chance to follow his proclivities without bothering his conscience? Or was this something vp introduced and nurtured?
Was he a bully and a control freak BEFORE his association with vp or was it something that was developed under vp`s tutelage and supervision?
So nobody is able to come up with anything decent or specific that lcm did for anyone after becoming involved in twi.....
Would it matter any?
You accuse Jonny of painting a rosey picture when all he does is share his experiences and thoughts, and maybe has a little something nice to say.
You call me a creep when giving a compliment to Jonny's wife for saying no to Martindale, reading evil into my statement as if I'm attacking someone.
My guess is, if some folks wrote some nice things about LCM, you'd only minimize and disparage it, just like you've been doing with others and anyone else who disagrees with your accusative mindset.
Yes, it certainly seems like you're making up for being quiet for 20 years. :)-->
You call me a creep when giving a compliment to Jonny's wife for saying no to Martindale, reading evil into my statement as if I'm attacking someone.
Like rascal said, you're not fooling anyone - anyone, that is, that has seen your posts over the last several years.
You keep constantly harping on about how women need to accept responsibility and how the victim mentality is just flat out wrong and bla bla bla.
The only reason you said anything nice about Jonny's wife is because her action at the time fits nicely with what you've been propounding.
( * )
Note to Jonny: I'm sure that your wife is a fine person, this is nothing against your wife. Personally, I'd be offended if someone used *my* wife to further his own agenda.
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As far as his time in college...I understand that he was a phys ed. major who rode the bench for the football team. Donny F. and Dave S. were both instrumental in recruiting Martindale into twi. His rise in the leadership ranks of twi was based mainly on 2 things...Wierwille enjoyed his "firey" teaching style...and Martindale kissed Wierwille's butt more than anyone else.
If I could communicate one thing about the man, it would be that he went off the "deep end" and became insane with delusions of grandeur.
His heavy handed, slash and burn policies highlighted his time as president. On his watch, twi lost the vast majority of it's followers. His demands for loyalty oaths, his obsessive "homo hunts", and his numerous adulterous affairs convinced thousands to walk away...Ironically, the man credited with being the most loyal to Wierwille, spearheaded a campaign to discredit most of Wierwille's teachings and purge twi of his influence.
Martindale's saw himself as a modern day Joshua, representing God to the rest of mankind...In reality, he was a self absorbed buffoon who enjoyed bullying people...today, he unloads trucks for a living.
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hiway29
at least he's finally doing some honest work.
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Mister P-Mosh
We don't know that to be true. Just because someone has a job doesn't mean that they actually do the work.
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Ham
That really says it all, heh heh heh.
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J0nny Ling0
My wife knew LCM in Oklahoma when he was but a "common believer". She said he was kind hearted and loving. My wife knew LCM's grandmother, and talked with her on frequent occasions. His grandmother said that Craig was kind as a child and had a real "heart for life". She said he was the kind of kid that didn't kill insects "just for fun". Wouldn't pull the legs off of grasshoppers and such, and challeneged other kids who did.
That was a long time ago of course, before he began his rise in the hierarchy. Personally, I think that he went from good guy to bad guy. I think that the biblical instruction that leaders should not be picked before they are mature enough spiritually is the reason for his downfall:
"...not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride..."
LCM hit on my wife one time when he was the Corps Director and married, but she just told him no and reproved him with It Is Written. He backed off and apologized. He treated her with respect after that, and me as well. But we were gone from The Way after 1990, and were not around for "round 2", when according to all that I have read here from those suffering through TWI II, things escalated way beyond anything we ever saw. Although, having been in on some of LCM's rants, I can clearly imagine how it got...
But, he was a child once, and had a heart at one time. Maybe just maybe he is remorseful and maybe as he unloads those trucks with "common men", just maybe he is working hard and trying to make up for his sins. We haven't heard of any "LCM Ministries" like some of the egomaniac ExWay revs are now doing, so maybe that is a sign of some sort of repentance..
I'd like to believe athat anyhow...
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oldiesman
Me too Jonny.
Real nice also to hear that incident involving your wife, who "just said no" and stood on principle.
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Trefor Heywood
The reason we haven't heard of "LCM Ministries" is that people couldn't join quicker than he would kick em out!
:D-->
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rascal
That is SO stupid oldies....just because lcm was afraid enough of the trouble Johnny and his wife might cause him enough to back off and profusely apologise in earlier years to save his foot means SQUAT!
I know a principled young corpes woman who after months of grooming .... DID *just said no* to lcm when asked to participate in a threesom and *stood on principle* who was escorted off grounds by armed security one hour later.
She arrived at her home state only to find every believer had been warned not to speak to her lest they become posessed. (she was never permited at a way function again)
I know a 17 yr old wow that vpw did the same thing to when she refused.....it was over 20 years before her innie family believed her and stopped mistrusting her as a posessed cop out. (her innie parents were even told not to let her stay in their home)
There was the man and his wife who *stood on principle* at the advanced class (lcm profusely apoligized then as well) who arrived home to find themselves m&a and no believers allowed to speak to them.....
JEEZE o PETE Oldies, You try to make a point that the women who were coerced and raped by these slime balls somehow failed to stand on principle.....
You are once again...attempting to place blame on the person traumatized in some sick attempt to make the criminal activity practiced seem less atrocious, some how understandible and excusable....sheeshe oldies, you are an a 1 creep.
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George Aar
Yes, Oldies no doubt finds it rather easy to stand on principle when the only one vying for his sexual favors is his hand...
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rascal
Oh n Johnny L, that is some rosey picture that you have painted of lcm.....however I feel that if it were anywhere close to being true.....he would come to grips with what he has done and make attempts to repent and apologise....haven`t heard of a single decent thing that lcm has done for anyone but himself since leaving...sorry
I think the guy is nuts, permanently irrevocably so....lots of insane people were nice when they were kids....doesn`t make them or their crimes any less heinous or the pain suffered by their victims any less intense :-(
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Steve!
That's an insult to a-1 creeps everywhere.
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TheHighWay
Rerail --- I think Craig actually majored in Psychology, not phys-ed. But I believe he was there on a football scholarship, even though he was a red-shirt for most of his university career. (University of Kansas, in Lawrence,KS)
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Belle
He was also very involved with the Baptist Student Union in college and may have had a leadership position there. I can't remember for sure.-
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oldiesman
Too bad some posters take a simple compliment to Jonny's wife as offensive.
I think it just shows how some love to think evil continually.
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rascal
Yeah, and *I* think that it just shows how some OTHER folks love to POST evil continously for the rest of us to think about...You aren`t fooling anybody oldies.
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rascal
I only know that he made my skin crawl and alarm bells go off when I watched him for the first time doing a high pressure sales pitch for pfal after the *changed fim*
It was such a turn off, imagine my chagrin when I found out a few months later that HE was going to be the new prez.....
Whew I figured there was something there that I just wasn`t spiritually *mature* enough to see.....sigh that was the story of my life in twi.
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justloafing
Yeah I am sure it was a compliment........."Hey baby want to f***?"
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rascal
Lol Justloafing, I guess I just wasn`t considering it in the proper perspective.
What an honor to be asked to *do* the man of God
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rascal
So nobody is able to come up with anything decent or specific that lcm did for anyone after becoming involved in twi.....
So my question would be...was he evil before his involvement ..... or was his association with twi and vpw in particular what led him down the path of darkness?
Was he like vpw a sexual predator BEFORE his involvement and vpw`s doctrine give him a chance to follow his proclivities without bothering his conscience? Or was this something vp introduced and nurtured?
Was he a bully and a control freak BEFORE his association with vp or was it something that was developed under vp`s tutelage and supervision?
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oldiesman
You accuse Jonny of painting a rosey picture when all he does is share his experiences and thoughts, and maybe has a little something nice to say.
You call me a creep when giving a compliment to Jonny's wife for saying no to Martindale, reading evil into my statement as if I'm attacking someone.
My guess is, if some folks wrote some nice things about LCM, you'd only minimize and disparage it, just like you've been doing with others and anyone else who disagrees with your accusative mindset.
Yes, it certainly seems like you're making up for being quiet for 20 years.
:)-->
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rascal
:-) you bet n loving it!
That being said, can you think of anything nice lcm ever said or did that benefited anyone other than himself after becoming involved with twi?
Was lcm just weak and association with twi corrupted him,
Was he nuts to begin with, or did intimate association with vpw over a period of time drive him crazy?
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Steve!
Like rascal said, you're not fooling anyone - anyone, that is, that has seen your posts over the last several years.
You keep constantly harping on about how women need to accept responsibility and how the victim mentality is just flat out wrong and bla bla bla.
The only reason you said anything nice about Jonny's wife is because her action at the time fits nicely with what you've been propounding.
( * )
Note to Jonny: I'm sure that your wife is a fine person, this is nothing against your wife. Personally, I'd be offended if someone used *my* wife to further his own agenda.
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oldiesman
Steve!, I don't need you to interpret why I say things.
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Steve!
You are right about that, it should be patently obvious to anyone that's read anything you've posted over the years.
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