Twice -- both times by Corps that were trained at HQ. I was in residence at Indiana. Seems there was a huge difference in the training programs between WaXXe ClAXX and LCM.
I think I pXXXEd off a corps guy because I told him he had already made up his mind about a decision before we had our conversation. I told him he was using the same tactics described by a decision tool salesman the week before at my company and he said the difference is "his decision was based on God's direction". Within 1/2 hour of the conversation he was asking my wife if 'when we had disagreements if I was as stubborn with her'. Funny, how bold this man that asked my help in getting a job just the year before could be so bold in attacking my marriage at that point. Proper arrangement also meant something different at the Indiana campus. Corps without kids never seemed to plan events for kids, until they ended up having kids.
A Godly marriage always upset leaders that were having difficulties themselves. I remember one wife attacking a woman because her husband was paying her too much attention. They actually had a very negative influence on this woman and she ended up getting a divorce.
Well, Sushi and I aren't officially married, but we've been together for coming up on 4 years. Trust me, he does not have the same belief system as I do. Doesn't matter, we love and respect each other enough to respect our differences.
He will still say prayers over the Sabbath candles if I ask him to. Likewise, I would never expect him to in any way participate in a religious ritual that he didn't want to.
I don't know why it is some people find it so disturbing that two people can be married and have vastly different opinions on some important subjects, yet still get along harmoniously and love each other deeply.
I had high level leaders telling me our marriage was full of confusion.
Well, we weren't the ones confused. We each knew exactly what the other was doing.
The leadership was confused, because it made it that much more difficult to nail us down and pidgeonhole us.
However, many people make the mistake of believing (as The Way International believes) that the husband and wife must have the same belief system.
Yikes- that sounds like a pretty boring way to live if you ask me--- maybe I have been out for way too long and had forgotten that.
I am single but pretty deeply involved, we are very different in our beliefs but i wouldn't have it any other way. She respects me and I respect her, our differences show us each great learning about life and each other, they are not a reason to clash and there is no need to fight for control.
The last thing I would want to do is thwart her giftedness by making her walk the straight and narrow of my PI, and although she is very strong she has shown me that she thinks the same about me. It is one of the things that keeps my relationship very interesting and healthy--the freedom to be ourselves.
just the thought of that deep control stuff or making my other a clone gives me the willies
Control is what it has always been about in TWI and in some other places. And if they can't control you, then you are a danger to what they represent.
If you cannot be controlled as a couple, then Divide and Conquer becomes the name of the game where these people are concerned, like the man who went behind Tumbleweed's back to his wife.
The game is so old, but it can work so well, unless you get wise real quick, and present a united front against those who would attack you from without in order to divide, conquer, and control you.
The last thing I would want to do is thwart her giftedness by making her walk the straight and narrow of my PI, and although she is very strong she has shown me that she thinks the same about me. It is one of the things that keeps my relationship very interesting and healthy--the freedom to be ourselves.
You're very lucky to have each other, and to have this understanding.
There are so many people who don't, and they break each other's spirit. It is a sad, sad, thing to witness.
I have a very similar arrangement with my wife and it has worked for us...22 years and counting.
I have a bible meetings on a regular schedule and my wife comes when she wants to. Also, she attends a local church each Sunday. I go to the church every so often because I want to and nearly everyone in the church asks her why I do not come more often (to many scriptural differences although I have taught the scriptures there on several occasions).
Many times over the years (mostly in the Way), I have been told I should tell my wife she should do this or that and especially "make" her help me and spend less time attending her church. To this I reply ... hahaha ....why? She loves God and so do I. Our way of doing things in our marriage has and continues to work for us. Like you, we made several agreements BEFORE we got married.
One such agreement that we made years ago that has worked for us concerned our kids and our money. Since in my job I make many financial decisions, I always get the final decision in this area. Since she spent/spends many more hours with our children than I do she gets to make the final decision in that area (although many times I try to use my "extended sales communication skills" to get her to see it my way!! She is quick to remind me "You forget, I have taken some of those communication seminars!!! I know what you are doing").
One thing I have learned over the years is that many organizations (both biblical and corporate) and this certainly includes the Way, do not like people who can think for themselves and/or have the mental strength to sometimes question what they are told or what they are told to do. They come across in public saying they encourage it, but the truth is many times, they do not.
Ironically, a good number of people who have offered us "advice" on how we should do things in our marriage (that they did not agree with) are now divorced. I am not so insecure that I need to "control" my wife. She is smart and intelligent and she has the same spirit in her that I have in me and I know my scriptural responsibility as a husband and father.
Although I have disagreed with her many times over the years, we work it out. Anyway, we all think we are right in our own mind.
I appreciate and admire Catcup's marriage arrangement and would encourage all exwayfers to consider her words.
I was married in 1977 to a fellow WOW ambassador...I never knew her before twi and she never knew me before twi...We were married for 3 years (no children) and then divorced.
During our 3 years together, we were WOW ambassadors, twig coordinators, in residence corps and then our marriage "dissolved" during our interim year in the corps...My point being...that our entire relationship was nothing more than "wayworld". Everything about our marriage was "embellished" by twi doctrine and influenced by it's leaders. We were held up as examples of a "good Christian marriage" to others and on the surface, all seemed fine...
Looking back, I realize that our marriage was doomed for failure...We were both very different people with very different ideas and goals...the ONLY common ground we had was twi! She was constantly stiffled ans frustrated over this "submissive wife" doctrine and I was very uncomfortable with my role as "head of the house"...Working out our own individual arrangement never happened...we simply plugged ourselves into twi's version of how a marriage is "supposed" to be. We put all of our own aspirations, goals, personalities, and ideas "on hold" and proceeded forth with a mindless cult belief system that was repressive, destructive and WRONG. In our minds, we thought we were doing the right thing, but in our hearts, we were miserable and going against the grain of who we really were.
To me, my marriage was just another twi program...first taking the classes, then going WOW, then into the corps and of course, my marriage...they were ALL twi programs to me.
She never got to know the real me, nor did I get to know the real her. It was all contrived and on the surface...the charade finally ended when SHE finally took some courageous action...she left. She left me and the corps and twi. Looking back, I applaud her courage.
So...when reading Catcup's posts concerning her marriage...I say good for both of them...for having the courage and frame of mind to stand up against some pretty heavy pressure from twi...
I would encourage all couples, who are still living under the oppressive doctrines of twi, to re-evaluate their situations...to decide for themselves how their relationship should work...to allow for diversity within the relationship, in terms of belief systems and lifestyles.
I find it disturbing that anyone would even get involved in another's life and marriage, passing judgement or 'evaluating' the relationship.
With my closest friends, the personal relationships they have with thie partners is their business and noone elses.
But of course we're talking about the way and the remnants of way think, which involved doing nothing but sticking ones nose into matters that are none of their business.
There certainly seems to be those here at greasespot who are still thumping their own particular views about life, marriage, politics ,in an 'in your face' way type
manner.
It's sad that catcup felt the need to 'defend' her life and marriage, but maybe it will serve as a good reminder for us to mind our own beeswax.
The most liberating aspect of being free from the way for me is not feeling like someone is looking over my shoulder, and evaluating every move I make. I could give a rat's a## what anyone thinks of my decisions,and I've only been able to accomplish goals and find peace since coming to this place.
29, I had the same reaction about catcup feeling the need to spell out her marriage for few. Since she did, it is just a great way to see how others work with their others married or not. As with most threads I will learn from this one too.
Catcup, I remember you and Geek from WayDale and how you and Geek made such a difference in my life. Exposing twi to me along with so many others from WayDale. I saw your hearts then and I see them today. You two just "keep on gettin on" ;)-->
It's sad that catcup felt the need to 'defend' her life and marriage, but maybe it will serve as a good reminder for us to mind our own beeswax.
Can I get an "AMEN!!!" from the choir?
It's waybrain to think you already know the answer to your probing questions which are actually none of your business and even more waybrain to continue the same line of questioning after getting the answer because it wasn't the answer YOU wanted.
Furthermore, it's also waybrain to completely disregard someone's request to change the subject and leave someone alone because "what YOU have to say is just sooooo important" that you feel justified in continuing along a topic that people have repeatedly asked be dropped.
Sorry, I'm just really peeved and sad that Catcup feels the need to defend herself publicly.
If TWI would teach and allow those kinds of differences, Catcup, there wouldn't be so many people dropping like flies from their ranks. There also wouldn't be nearly as many divorces. My ex actually considered me leaving TWI as breaking our wedding vows. I told him I wasn't turning my back on God, just TWI. Not good enough. I know quite a few marriages that ended for that reason.
My neighbors have been happily married for 40 years. She's Presbyterian and he's Catholic. They accommodate each other's schedules and support their involvement with their respective churches.
My ex's grandparents were of different faiths. The grandfather was Christian Science (or something like that) and the grandmother was Catholic. They were happily married till death parted them. But even that wasn't example enough for him. :(-->
Groucho, my marriage was much like yours....a TWI function. I changed so much to fit into the TWI mold that it was making me physically and mentally ill. Everyone thought we had the perfect marriage and, for a while, we did, but the more TWI got involved in our lives the more problems we had.
Catcup, thank you for sharing so much personal information with us. :)--> Hugs!!
My ex actually considered me leaving TWI as breaking our wedding vows. I told him I wasn't turning my back on God, just TWI. Not good enough. I know quite a few marriages that ended for that reason.
I don't know about those who got married outside TWI, but when we got married by VPW at that huge circus that was a Corps Wedding, our vows went something like this:
"I, Catcup, take you, Geek, to be my lawfully wedded husband. To have and to hold from this day forward, to love, to honor, and to cherish, in every situation, and under every condition, according to God's Holy Word."
Maybe somebody who has one of those TWI wedding books can get it out and double-check the wording and post it.
But there is NOTHING in that vow that says you intend to stay with TWI all your living days.
But if you said the same vows WE did, you promised to love, to honor, and to cherish each other in every situation, and under every condition, according to God's Holy Word.
Every means every. And God's Holy Word teaches unconditional love.
So as far as I am concerned, The Way International was in the business of breaking wedding vows of marriages they disliked, and anyone who did NOT love their spouse in every situation and under every condition, including leaving that ugly cult, is the one who broke the vows.
She never got to know the real me, nor did I get to know the real her. It was all contrived and on the surface...
Groucho, this describes me pretty much exactly. Everything we did was ministry related. When we were finally out, she found out what I really was like.
It scared the he** out of her, and I can't hardly blame her either.
My marriage only lasted about four years outside of TWI.
I think she thought that she had married a monster. Who knows, maybe she was right. No common interest (the ministry) and it was dead.
Funny though- I found out what SHE was really like. A real "redneck" at times, but I thought it was kind of "cool". Anything better than the roles determined by Vey personnel was an improvement.
I turned out being a forty-some year old hippie. Sorry, just can't fight it any more, heh heh.
I guess I don't read enough posts to find out why Catcup was motivated to start this thread. (And there really isn't much IN this thread for me to figure it out, either. Then again, it isn't my business!!) If it works for you and Geek, more power to you. My wife and I don't agree on everything, but we do agree on major doctrinal points. I honestly believe that I couldn't be happy married to a Trinitarian. But that's ME.
Looking back, I can say that since we were hitched together with vey doctrine and practice, that there WERE times that "they" were really able to work us over. What a blind idiot I was..
And you, "Rev." can eat three meals without mixing bread and vegetables, drink water for "miraculous" energy, you simpering idiot, don't even think of claiming MY failure as some kind of victory, or vindication for YOU.
Just wait you SOB. Just wait and see what happens to you when YOUR wife decides to quit taking your .....
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Danny
Very good. Glad you put it out there.
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Tumbleweed Kid
yes,
Twice -- both times by Corps that were trained at HQ. I was in residence at Indiana. Seems there was a huge difference in the training programs between WaXXe ClAXX and LCM.
I think I pXXXEd off a corps guy because I told him he had already made up his mind about a decision before we had our conversation. I told him he was using the same tactics described by a decision tool salesman the week before at my company and he said the difference is "his decision was based on God's direction". Within 1/2 hour of the conversation he was asking my wife if 'when we had disagreements if I was as stubborn with her'. Funny, how bold this man that asked my help in getting a job just the year before could be so bold in attacking my marriage at that point. Proper arrangement also meant something different at the Indiana campus. Corps without kids never seemed to plan events for kids, until they ended up having kids.
A Godly marriage always upset leaders that were having difficulties themselves. I remember one wife attacking a woman because her husband was paying her too much attention. They actually had a very negative influence on this woman and she ended up getting a divorce.
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Abigail
Well, Sushi and I aren't officially married, but we've been together for coming up on 4 years. Trust me, he does not have the same belief system as I do. Doesn't matter, we love and respect each other enough to respect our differences.
He will still say prayers over the Sabbath candles if I ask him to. Likewise, I would never expect him to in any way participate in a religious ritual that he didn't want to.
Respect, very simple.
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Catcup
I don't know why it is some people find it so disturbing that two people can be married and have vastly different opinions on some important subjects, yet still get along harmoniously and love each other deeply.
I had high level leaders telling me our marriage was full of confusion.
Well, we weren't the ones confused. We each knew exactly what the other was doing.
The leadership was confused, because it made it that much more difficult to nail us down and pidgeonhole us.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
catcup i so admire you for posting this and i hope you and hubby live happliy ever after!!
you sound like wonderfu people and wish you the best
you will have it!
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mstar1
Yikes- that sounds like a pretty boring way to live if you ask me--- maybe I have been out for way too long and had forgotten that.
I am single but pretty deeply involved, we are very different in our beliefs but i wouldn't have it any other way. She respects me and I respect her, our differences show us each great learning about life and each other, they are not a reason to clash and there is no need to fight for control.
The last thing I would want to do is thwart her giftedness by making her walk the straight and narrow of my PI, and although she is very strong she has shown me that she thinks the same about me. It is one of the things that keeps my relationship very interesting and healthy--the freedom to be ourselves.
just the thought of that deep control stuff or making my other a clone gives me the willies
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Catcup
Control is what it has always been about in TWI and in some other places. And if they can't control you, then you are a danger to what they represent.
If you cannot be controlled as a couple, then Divide and Conquer becomes the name of the game where these people are concerned, like the man who went behind Tumbleweed's back to his wife.
The game is so old, but it can work so well, unless you get wise real quick, and present a united front against those who would attack you from without in order to divide, conquer, and control you.
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Catcup
You're very lucky to have each other, and to have this understanding.
There are so many people who don't, and they break each other's spirit. It is a sad, sad, thing to witness.
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dmiller
Have read Geek's teachings on CFFM;
Have read Catcup's posts on GreaseSpot:
God bless you both. Don't change a thing.
It works.
:)-->
David
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Paradiseden
Hi Catcup!
I have a very similar arrangement with my wife and it has worked for us...22 years and counting.
I have a bible meetings on a regular schedule and my wife comes when she wants to. Also, she attends a local church each Sunday. I go to the church every so often because I want to and nearly everyone in the church asks her why I do not come more often (to many scriptural differences although I have taught the scriptures there on several occasions).
Many times over the years (mostly in the Way), I have been told I should tell my wife she should do this or that and especially "make" her help me and spend less time attending her church. To this I reply ... hahaha ....why? She loves God and so do I. Our way of doing things in our marriage has and continues to work for us. Like you, we made several agreements BEFORE we got married.
One such agreement that we made years ago that has worked for us concerned our kids and our money. Since in my job I make many financial decisions, I always get the final decision in this area. Since she spent/spends many more hours with our children than I do she gets to make the final decision in that area (although many times I try to use my "extended sales communication skills" to get her to see it my way!! She is quick to remind me "You forget, I have taken some of those communication seminars!!! I know what you are doing").
One thing I have learned over the years is that many organizations (both biblical and corporate) and this certainly includes the Way, do not like people who can think for themselves and/or have the mental strength to sometimes question what they are told or what they are told to do. They come across in public saying they encourage it, but the truth is many times, they do not.
Ironically, a good number of people who have offered us "advice" on how we should do things in our marriage (that they did not agree with) are now divorced. I am not so insecure that I need to "control" my wife. She is smart and intelligent and she has the same spirit in her that I have in me and I know my scriptural responsibility as a husband and father.
Although I have disagreed with her many times over the years, we work it out. Anyway, we all think we are right in our own mind.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Interesting and appropriate thread...
I appreciate and admire Catcup's marriage arrangement and would encourage all exwayfers to consider her words.
I was married in 1977 to a fellow WOW ambassador...I never knew her before twi and she never knew me before twi...We were married for 3 years (no children) and then divorced.
During our 3 years together, we were WOW ambassadors, twig coordinators, in residence corps and then our marriage "dissolved" during our interim year in the corps...My point being...that our entire relationship was nothing more than "wayworld". Everything about our marriage was "embellished" by twi doctrine and influenced by it's leaders. We were held up as examples of a "good Christian marriage" to others and on the surface, all seemed fine...
Looking back, I realize that our marriage was doomed for failure...We were both very different people with very different ideas and goals...the ONLY common ground we had was twi! She was constantly stiffled ans frustrated over this "submissive wife" doctrine and I was very uncomfortable with my role as "head of the house"...Working out our own individual arrangement never happened...we simply plugged ourselves into twi's version of how a marriage is "supposed" to be. We put all of our own aspirations, goals, personalities, and ideas "on hold" and proceeded forth with a mindless cult belief system that was repressive, destructive and WRONG. In our minds, we thought we were doing the right thing, but in our hearts, we were miserable and going against the grain of who we really were.
To me, my marriage was just another twi program...first taking the classes, then going WOW, then into the corps and of course, my marriage...they were ALL twi programs to me.
She never got to know the real me, nor did I get to know the real her. It was all contrived and on the surface...the charade finally ended when SHE finally took some courageous action...she left. She left me and the corps and twi. Looking back, I applaud her courage.
So...when reading Catcup's posts concerning her marriage...I say good for both of them...for having the courage and frame of mind to stand up against some pretty heavy pressure from twi...
I would encourage all couples, who are still living under the oppressive doctrines of twi, to re-evaluate their situations...to decide for themselves how their relationship should work...to allow for diversity within the relationship, in terms of belief systems and lifestyles.
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hiway29
I find it disturbing that anyone would even get involved in another's life and marriage, passing judgement or 'evaluating' the relationship.
With my closest friends, the personal relationships they have with thie partners is their business and noone elses.
But of course we're talking about the way and the remnants of way think, which involved doing nothing but sticking ones nose into matters that are none of their business.
There certainly seems to be those here at greasespot who are still thumping their own particular views about life, marriage, politics ,in an 'in your face' way type
manner.
It's sad that catcup felt the need to 'defend' her life and marriage, but maybe it will serve as a good reminder for us to mind our own beeswax.
The most liberating aspect of being free from the way for me is not feeling like someone is looking over my shoulder, and evaluating every move I make. I could give a rat's a## what anyone thinks of my decisions,and I've only been able to accomplish goals and find peace since coming to this place.
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justloafing
29, I had the same reaction about catcup feeling the need to spell out her marriage for few. Since she did, it is just a great way to see how others work with their others married or not. As with most threads I will learn from this one too.
Catcup, I remember you and Geek from WayDale and how you and Geek made such a difference in my life. Exposing twi to me along with so many others from WayDale. I saw your hearts then and I see them today. You two just "keep on gettin on"
;)-->
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Belle
Can I get an "AMEN!!!" from the choir?
It's waybrain to think you already know the answer to your probing questions which are actually none of your business and even more waybrain to continue the same line of questioning after getting the answer because it wasn't the answer YOU wanted.
Furthermore, it's also waybrain to completely disregard someone's request to change the subject and leave someone alone because "what YOU have to say is just sooooo important" that you feel justified in continuing along a topic that people have repeatedly asked be dropped.
Sorry, I'm just really peeved and sad that Catcup feels the need to defend herself publicly.
If TWI would teach and allow those kinds of differences, Catcup, there wouldn't be so many people dropping like flies from their ranks. There also wouldn't be nearly as many divorces. My ex actually considered me leaving TWI as breaking our wedding vows. I told him I wasn't turning my back on God, just TWI. Not good enough. I know quite a few marriages that ended for that reason.
My neighbors have been happily married for 40 years. She's Presbyterian and he's Catholic. They accommodate each other's schedules and support their involvement with their respective churches.
My ex's grandparents were of different faiths. The grandfather was Christian Science (or something like that) and the grandmother was Catholic. They were happily married till death parted them. But even that wasn't example enough for him.
:(-->
Groucho, my marriage was much like yours....a TWI function. I changed so much to fit into the TWI mold that it was making me physically and mentally ill. Everyone thought we had the perfect marriage and, for a while, we did, but the more TWI got involved in our lives the more problems we had.
Catcup, thank you for sharing so much personal information with us.
:)--> Hugs!!
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Catcup
I don't know about those who got married outside TWI, but when we got married by VPW at that huge circus that was a Corps Wedding, our vows went something like this:
"I, Catcup, take you, Geek, to be my lawfully wedded husband. To have and to hold from this day forward, to love, to honor, and to cherish, in every situation, and under every condition, according to God's Holy Word."
Maybe somebody who has one of those TWI wedding books can get it out and double-check the wording and post it.
But there is NOTHING in that vow that says you intend to stay with TWI all your living days.
But if you said the same vows WE did, you promised to love, to honor, and to cherish each other in every situation, and under every condition, according to God's Holy Word.
Every means every. And God's Holy Word teaches unconditional love.
So as far as I am concerned, The Way International was in the business of breaking wedding vows of marriages they disliked, and anyone who did NOT love their spouse in every situation and under every condition, including leaving that ugly cult, is the one who broke the vows.
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def59
Catcup
God bless you. Yours was a wonderful that should be a lesson to us all.
My wife and I agree on most issues, but there's enought independent thought to keep us all going.
We go to the same church, but don't always agree on the doctrines. But compromise is often a good thing for the right cause.
Congrats on the 27 years.
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Bob
TWI defines this as keeping God's word which is further defined as doing what TWI says.
It's bull****, but my ex bought it.
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Ham
Groucho, this describes me pretty much exactly. Everything we did was ministry related. When we were finally out, she found out what I really was like.
It scared the he** out of her, and I can't hardly blame her either.
My marriage only lasted about four years outside of TWI.
I think she thought that she had married a monster. Who knows, maybe she was right. No common interest (the ministry) and it was dead.
Twenty five years, and it was over.
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Ham
Funny though- I found out what SHE was really like. A real "redneck" at times, but I thought it was kind of "cool". Anything better than the roles determined by Vey personnel was an improvement.
I turned out being a forty-some year old hippie. Sorry, just can't fight it any more, heh heh.
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Ham
So much for "conventional" Way marriages..
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GeorgeStGeorge
I guess I don't read enough posts to find out why Catcup was motivated to start this thread. (And there really isn't much IN this thread for me to figure it out, either. Then again, it isn't my business!!) If it works for you and Geek, more power to you. My wife and I don't agree on everything, but we do agree on major doctrinal points. I honestly believe that I couldn't be happy married to a Trinitarian. But that's ME.
George
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Ham
Looking back, I can say that since we were hitched together with vey doctrine and practice, that there WERE times that "they" were really able to work us over. What a blind idiot I was..
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Ham
And you, "Rev." can eat three meals without mixing bread and vegetables, drink water for "miraculous" energy, you simpering idiot, don't even think of claiming MY failure as some kind of victory, or vindication for YOU.
Just wait you SOB. Just wait and see what happens to you when YOUR wife decides to quit taking your .....
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Ham
Sincerely, thanks for your contribution Catcup. You may say that this one hit pretty close to home for me.
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