The Way

[Protint]

I was born in 68 and for as long as I can remember my parents have been christians. They got into the Way ministries in the early 70's and still receive tapes and literature from The Way. I came across this site one night after surfing the web about The Way.

I have heard of people calling The Way a cult in the past, including my current Pastor (Calvary Assembly of God church). I don't ever remember experiencing anything cult like when I was a kid. We went to twig meetings every week and all I remember is the adults doing a bible study while the kids played in the backyard.

My family and I never went to church and my parents haven't been to any twig meeting for over 20 years. Both my mother and father are still firm believers in God's word and lead a good christian life.

I became born again when I was about eight years old. Being that young there was no change of life experience for me, like what happens to people that get saved later in life. I went through junior high and high school living a life of sin, doing drugs and partying. Being born again to me had no meaning. I knew the things I was doing were wrong but on occasion I would just ask for forgiveness and thought that everything was okay.

In 1989 I got married and joined the Air Force. I was stationed in DE 1990 where I still live. It wasn't until 1992 when my wife and I were contimplating divorce we decided that we needed to get grounded in a chuch. The first chuch we attended was non denomenational. The Pastor wanted to come over to the house one night and talk to us. He asked the typical question " if you died today would you go to heaven " and if yes than how do you know. At the end of the meeting he handed me a book about the trinity and wanted me to read it. I read the book and was really confused. I called my dad and he explained the trinity to me. After I told the pastor I didn't belive in the trinity as far as Jesus being God I was shunned immediatly and after about three weeks of being ignored in the church the search was on for a new church.

We could not find a chuch in our area that didn't believe in the trinity unless we wanted to become Mormon. My wife and I found Calvary Assembly of God. We have been with this church since 93.

While surfing the web I found this site http://www.meta-religion.com/New_religious...ternational.htm

This lady was part of The Way ministries and say that she now belives in the trinity. Wow :huh:

How does the majority of the people on here stand on the trinity?

[Nottawayfer]

I left The Way 3 years ago. I went through many emotional changes because I was involved from age 19 to 39. I believed everything they taught--hook, line and sinker. Their doctrine saturated my adult thinking.

After I checked out several Way offshoots, I realized I was questioning everything I was taught, and I mean everything.

I don't know that I believe in the trinity hook, line, and sinker, but I am at least 90% sure that I agree with it now.

As a result of my changes, I don't think it is a pressing issue to me like it used to be. I don't think that salvation is dependent upon believing the trinity. I do think that how you think of Jesus and your relationship with him makes a huge difference in your Christian faith. I don't freak out when I hear people pray to Jesus. Sometimes I address my prayers to Jesus and sometime to Father. Either way, I know I am heard.

I don't want to judge anyone who doesn't believe in it because I know where I was at for many years.

[bliss]

For me, a new "outie" I needed to examine this doctrine for myself.

I allowed the Way to define what the Trinity is and meant. I never looked into it myself until recently.

One thing I am sure of is the Way (JCNG) misrepresented what Trinitarians and the Trinity mean.

I can talk to both sides of the issue, and be equally convinced.

So, where does that leave me?

I rest in leaning on God, and His path for my life I trust now.

It was hard to go to a church and hear trinity or them talk about Jesus coming down and becoming a man, but as the Way colored glasses are starting to vanish, and I see the love and care they have toward people of all faiths (something foreign to TWI), it really isn't the big deal it used to be.

I don't think we can truly DEFINE GOD anyway. I just know He is, and Jesus is, and the holy spirit is........for now, that is all I need.

[excathedra]

i personally believe i was "born again" while i still believed in the trinity

for me today, non-issue

best wishes

that sounds like i'm saying goodbye, i'm not

[justloafing]

Well I am one not to believe in the trinity but that is because of twi. I am "pretty" sure the trinity is not correct but I wont fight anyone on it. I am not sure how much you believe in twi doctrine. Have you ever thought about going outside of the bible and go to a counsler?

Edited January 31, 2006 by justloafing

[markomalley]

<--- Note member title (underneath avatar)

Why, yes, I subscribe to the Trinity. Couldn't you tell?

If you'd like to discuss the concept of a theological basis, please feel free to join the hobbits down in the 'doctrinal basement.'

[excathedra]

pretty proud of that eh mark ?

[markomalley]

pretty proud of that eh mark ?

No offense intended, ex

Forgot to put the requisite YMMV down...

[Abigail]

Mark, if you get to be the token Catholic, can I be the token Jew? I don't believe in the trinity either.

Welcome Protint - have some coffee on me.

Well, on second thought, I'd rather I weren't wearing it.

[excathedra]

what does YMMV mean ?

i am not sure i agree with the "token" stuff

[dmiller]

YMMV = your mileage may vary

or -- your ideas may be different than mine.

Something like that. :)

[satori001]

Trouble is, Pinto, people just can't keep up with Truth because they get stuck in the past and the Truth is always changing, evolving, like the eternal lotus, or the Chevy Malibu.

Oneness is unity, twoness is company, and threeness is a crowd. Therefore I have moved on with the mobile and evolving Truth to believe in the greatness of the appendectomy. That is, truth once was One, but a small part of it got really sore, like puffy and inflamed and stuff, and had to be removed. That part is us.

Amen.

Edited January 31, 2006 by satori001

[GT]

Satori,

I have no idea what you said, but I like it and think I might agree with it.

[dmiller]

I personally don't believe in the Trinity,

nor do I believe Jesus is God,

nor do I believe in any *pre-existence* of Christ

before He was physically born.

And yes -- I was raised Catholic, but couldn't reconcile their teachings

with the Bible. (sorry Mark!)

Now -- with that being said --

I get along fine with those who believe the trinity,

and believe Jesus is God,

and believe He may have pre-existed,

before He was physically born.

Because of my stated belief (in the last paragraph);

I can fellowship with any, and everyone

from Apostolic Oneness, to Jehovah Witness,

and all sects in between.

To me -- the trinity is a big issue, for my own belief.

But that does not mean I require that from others.

Truth be told -- they aren't going to stand before me on Judgement Day

to be either approved or not, nor will I stand before them.

I used to think Jesus was God (ie -- trinity),

but now I don't.

Like Ex said -- I got *saved* when I believed in the trinity.

(In a little Pentecostal church in southern Illinois for me).

Some of what twi taught to me still holds some meaning,

but I utterly reject their *mark and avoid* policy,

when it pertains to someone of a different faith than I.

Just my IMO --- as always. :)

David

[FreeFromCults]

I left TWI about 10 years ago. In my 3 years with them, I used to believe everything they taught. IMHO, there was nothing wrong in what they taught, but in my last year and half, I questioned about their practices in my heart.

Regarding the trinity, it's a non-issue to me nowadays because whether you believe it or not, it doesn't mean that you're a bad person.

Is the Trinity the Truth? I don't know.

Do I believe in the Trinity? Does it matter?

Is JesusChrist God? I don't think so, but I don't have a problem if you believe so.

[dmiller]

The eternal Lotus ---

And the Malibu

DANG!!! I'll go with the old --

fergit the *new evolving* stuff!

:D :D

[johniam]

I never had issues with the trinity before TWI. I didn't even know what it WAS! In my first PFAL class I rode to and from each session with this guy and after the class was over I heard the guy tell someone that TWI didn't believe in the trinity so I asked him to explain and it was like...what? Church people believe this? They believe Jesus is WHAT???

While in TWI I followed the company line all the way...that trinitarians are wackos, but since leaving TWI my family attended a Presbyterian church for awhile and one Sunday the sermon was called 'Trust and Obey' and the first scripture he read was Luke 22:42 where Jesus said, "Father, let this cup pass from me, nevertheless not my will but thine be done." He was making the point that even Jesus struggled with the concept of trust and obey, but that verse was one of the major ones TWI used to shoot down the trinity.

So I concluded that this Presbyterian minister (and probably LOTS of church Christians) would say without hesitation that he believed in the trinity, but in his mind and thinking he knew that Jesus was a man and subject to temptation and that He wasn't really God. I still do not believe in the trinity or that Jesus is God, but I no longer feel the need to "shun" trinitarians in general.

[dmiller]

Regarding the trinity,

it's a non-issue to me nowadays because whether you believe it or not,

it doesn't mean that you're a bad person.

Is the Trinity the Truth? I don't know.

Do I believe in the Trinity? Does it matter?

Is Jesus Christ God? I don't think so,

but I don't have a problem if you believe so.

FreeFromCults --- Well said!

And welcome to Greasespot!

(I'm thinking you'll fit in just fine!) :B)

David

[Protint]

Thanks for all the input.

I personally don't believe in the trinity, not only because what I was taught from my parents but because I haven't read it in the Word.

When the trinity was first introduced to me in 92 I was really confused. I didn't get upset and think that all trinitarians are wakos. I have found it different though when a trinitarian finds out that I don't believe in the trinity. They freak out and go out of there way to prove to me that there is a God head. Three in one.

I would say that 99% of the trinitarians in my church that I have asked about the trinity don't even realize what the trinity means. They usually say "Oh ya you mean the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost right." When I tell them that the trinity is actually saying that God is Jesus they look confused. There have been people in my church tell me that Jesus and the Holy Spirit were with God from the begining. My reply is usually "yes I believe Jesus was with God but in God's forsight."

For about seven years I was confused about the trinity because of everything from teaching to the songs we sing in church. What I have done is pray about this extensively and asked God to show me in his Word the trinity. It took seven years for my prayer to be answered and the answer to me is that there is no trinity as far as God being Jesus. I do belive in the trinity as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being three, but three seperate things.

Today it is a non issue to me as far as trying to make my friends believe there is no trinity.

Edited January 31, 2006 by Protint

[Patriot]

Velly Interesting.

I've spoken to several Muslims and Jews, who cannot ever consider becoming a Christian

because they are so offended with trying to make Jesus actually God. I can still remember

this one Muslim woman's eyes open so wide when I told her that I also didn't believe that

Jesus was God, but rather the son of God. She actually listened to me, and told me that

I was the first Christian she ever heard say that, and that she wanted to know more.

Not sure about every Muslim and Jew, but the ones I talked to in the past believed that

it was idolatry to make anyone God except just one God (not in 3 parts).

As I said, velly interesting......

[nandon]

my personal opinion of "the trinity"...

I don't know. Dr. Gene Scott once said that he can't say. If he couldn't say, i sure as hell can't say.

I always call jesus the son of god, because i read that phrase a lot in the bible.

[dmiller]

Check out Biblical Unitarian.

Granted -- it is a CES site (ie -- offshoot of twi)

But if you want to find things about the trinity,

this is a good place to start.

:)

[WordWolf]

[WordWolf in brackets and boldface.]

I was born in 68 and for as long as I can remember my parents have been christians. They got into the Way ministries in the early 70's and still receive tapes and literature from The Way. I came across this site one night after surfing the web about The Way.

I have heard of people calling The Way a cult in the past, including my current Pastor (Calvary Assembly of God church). I don't ever remember experiencing anything cult like when I was a kid. We went to twig meetings every week and all I remember is the adults doing a bible study while the kids played in the backyard.

My family and I never went to church and my parents haven't been to any twig meeting for over 20 years.

[You really missed a lot. The 70s-and in some places, the early 80s-

had a lot of Christians in the group that didn't follow rigid rules so much,

and the worst of things generally bypassed them.

Once 1989 hit, things degenerated pretty rapidly,

and NO local areas were spared.]

Both my mother and father are still firm believers in God's word and lead a good christian life.

[Good for both of them! That's true of a lot of people here.

Mind you, for most of us, saying we "believe in God's Word"

is NOT what it meant in twi, which was

"believe in what twi says the Bible says".

There's a BIG difference.]

I became born again when I was about eight years old. Being that young there was no change of life experience for me, like what happens to people that get saved later in life. I went through junior high and high school living a life of sin, doing drugs and partying. Being born again to me had no meaning. I knew the things I was doing were wrong but on occasion I would just ask for forgiveness and thought that everything was okay.

[Actually, that was pretty common in twi.

vpw himself pushed that sin was "broken fellowship" and that

we were under "no condemnation" and went out of his way to mitigate

sin and make it effectively harmless, doctrinally.

That made it a LOT easier for him to do whatever he wanted

(SIN) and excuse it all away. Make no mistake-he set up some

elaborate plans to make sinning easier for himself. He marketed

"his" ministry to the youths of the late 60s/early 70s, who were

into avoiding rules and regulations, and many were into "free love."

(Some think he went specifically for the "free love".)

The net result of his DOCTRINE of permissiveness, coupled with

their PREDISPOSITION of permissiveness, meant that what was

taught and practiced was...permissiveness.

You were taught you could sin, then just ask forgiveness,

get a receipt from God, and then it all came out in the laundry.

(Figure of speech.) So, that's what you believed.]

In 1989 I got married and joined the Air Force. I was stationed in DE 1990 where I still live. It wasn't until 1992 when my wife and I were contimplating divorce we decided that we needed to get grounded in a chuch. The first chuch we attended was non denomenational. The Pastor wanted to come over to the house one night and talk to us. He asked the typical question " if you died today would you go to heaven " and if yes than how do you know. At the end of the meeting he handed me a book about the trinity and wanted me to read it. I read the book and was really confused.

[That's a natural first reaction. The book was "about" the Trinity? That was

it's MAIN focus? Well, not my area of interest...

BTW, you're NOT typical in one respect-most of us were around and

heard vpw or lcm or someone else VERBALLY ASSAULT Trinitarians and

Christians they didn't agree with as if they were cannibals or something.]

I called my dad and he explained the trinity to me. After I told the pastor I didn't belive in the trinity as far as Jesus being God I was shunned immediatly and after about three weeks of being ignored in the church the search was on for a new church.

[sounds like that pastor was a real 'Richard'.

Was he really fixated entirely on the Trinity and could NEVER

drop the subject? Some are, and I think that's a shame.

While they're busy preaching AGAINST one type of Christian,

they can't spend much time preaching FOR the Lord.]

We could not find a chuch in our area that didn't believe in the trinity unless we wanted to become Mormon. My wife and I found Calvary Assembly of God. We have been with this church since 93.

[i hope you're happy there. BTW, a number of churches

are happy to have Christians, and don't sit there with checklists

and run thru them weekly to look for excuses to kick them out.

Many of them don't use the term "Trinity" every 15 seconds, also.]

While surfing the web I found this site http://www.meta-religion.com/New_religious...ternational.htm

This lady was part of The Way ministries and say that she now belives in the trinity. Wow :huh:

How does the majority of the people on here stand on the trinity?

[Opinions here vary widely.

Some are Trinitarians, some are not, some are not Christians.

As for me, I'm fine with Christians on both sides of this issue.

My complaint is against extremists on BOTH sides who have some sort

of fixation with condemning the other side as "fake Christians" or

worse things.]

[in other news, hello. :)

This forum has some advice for new arrivals in one of the

pinned "sticky" topics up top. I recommend reading it.

I'd also recommend-when making new threads-

to attempt to put them in their related forums,

and label them according to their subject.

For example, this was about positions on

"the Trinity". Therefore, "the Trinity" should have

been in the title, but instead, it's labelled

"the Way", which is so general it's like

having NO title. Second, since this is a

question about our Doctrine, it goes in the

Doctrinal forum.

Posters in general will be happier if you

make some attempts in these areas.

Thank you and have a nice day.]

[Allan]

Regarding the trinity...ditto for what Free from Cults and DMiller have said !!

[markomalley]

what does YMMV mean ?

i am not sure i agree with the "token" stuff

David already answered the YMMV question.

"Token" is a facaetious expression, meaning that I'm one of the one or two Catholics you all keep around so that you can say you're a tolerant bunch. Again, the expression "token" is intended as a facaetious comment, i.e., humor. Dry humor.