You know, this sort of reminds me of an exaggerated version of the "no debt policy" thread that was on top here about a month ago.
The conclusions that I drew from the 'no debt' policy are pretty much the same as the conclusions that I am seeing here. That is that the Corps program took a perfectly valid concept and totally perverted it.
OK, so to make it more clear this time, I'll spell out my point explicitly: it appeared to me that VP wanted to create his own religious order that would be totally accountable to him. Nothing inherently wrong with that, in of itself (in other words, had VP believed and taught a legitimate theology that actually was designed to worship and serve God rather than his own perversions, the Way Corps could have been a good thing).
The similarities between religious orders and the Corps:
- Both were expected to be under obedience: if "leadership" gave an order, the members of the order/ the Corps were expected to follow that order -- go here, go there, start this project, stop this project, etc.
- Both were expected to place their commitment to God above all other commitments: material wealth and other temporal considerations were not to be a factor when considering the commitment.
- Both were expected to have a certain 'authoritativeness' in their presence. If "sister joan" said something in regards to God, the laity would give her statement a lot of credence. If "Corps grad joan" said something within her twig, the 'leaves' of the twig would be expected to give her statement a lot of credence.
- Both had certain 'charisms' (missions). Religious orders are, in large part, organized through common interests: some would be teaching orders, some would be hospital orders, some would be orders working around service to the poor, some would be contemplative orders. The Way Corps, if I remember my history correctly, were all supposed to be teachers: but, at least at some period in time, weren't they also supposed to ingrain themselves in different segments of society? (I know that later on, they became TWI's version of the Geheimstaatspolizei (Gestapo), but initially, that wasn't the case, was it?)
But here's where it -- to my understanding -- got screwed up with the Corpse. (Please keep in mind that a lot of these observations are from real, live people I talked to, reading a lot of you all here, and reading a lot of documents...I fully acknowledge that none of this is from first hand experience -- so feel free to correct where I have it wrong)
- In religious orders, the members are all single. There are no family ties to bind them. In the Way Corps, many were married, many had families, and most ended up that way a few years after graduation. St. Paul, in 1 Cor 7, correctly pointed out that families would prevent folks from being able to fully follow in his footsteps. How many lives were screwed up simply as the result of the fact that a Way Corps person was married (with or without children)? What I mean by this is that a directive that, to a single person solely focused on serving God w/o concern for the things of this world, would be reasonable, would be totally irresponsible when given to a person with a spouse and children?
- In religious orders, the members have all taken a vow of poverty. They have no personal property. Coupled with the fact that most Way Corps people ended up married (with or without kids), how much did property cause an internal conflict within the individual Way Corps person? House (mortgage or long-term lease), car(s), etc.? And if those things DIDN'T cause a conflict, was that individual (likely married) Way Corps person taking care of his/her family responsibilities properly?
- In religious orders, the members take a vow of celibacy. (Yes, I know it doesn't always work out that way, but they do take that vow and most are faithful to that vow) Celibacy is, from all understanding, hardly a consideration for the Way Corps. From what I've gathered, the teaching was that sex was perfectly OK "if you were spirtual enough to handle it." From what I've read on gsc alone, there have been a number of female corps members who were apparently selected for the role because some "MOG" wished to use them sexually. I've read here about at least one suicide that resulted from that type of relationship. I've heard of one who was pressured into having an abortion. And so on and so forth. Sex was often used as an enticement. Sometimes used as a weapon. What kind of complications happened as a result of not having celibacy as a requirement? (Again, I encourage you to read 1 Cor 7:33-35 before passing judgement on me) -- at least for a defined period of service.
So, like I said, it appeared that VP was taking a model that almost eerily resembled certain religious orders...a perfectly good model that has Biblical foundations...and twisted and perverted it with the result being a lot of folks whose lives ended up hurt through the process.
And, as with all my posts, it is IMHO and is FWIW. Of course, YMMV.
Somebody tell me to shut up! if what I have to say isn't valid. Honestly, the only reason I keep talking is because as socks said, "my experience WAS NOT UNIQUE." What happened to me and my husband happened to alot of us, in my world anyway.
Once we complied with our "corps assignment," we got into it. I mean, we resigned ourselves to the fact that our own personal goals were gonna be put on hold for awhile, well, because "the ministry needed us." Yes, it's true, we were told that, and bought into it. sigh.....
Anyway, once we became branch coordinators, we got into, loved the good and gracious people in our branch who welcomed us with open arms and open hearts. It was a beeeeyoootiful thang. Really.
Then, the mess ensued.......Let me explain.
Because of our proximity to Emporia, we got to be involved with the way corps in-training, whether we wanted to or not. Just about everybody in our branch, us included, were normal humans who went to work at a job, then came home, and did way stuff "after hours." Evenings and week-ends we ran twigs, classes, did special event things, etc. Life is good.
The thing that got messed up, was this: Random Wednesday evening, no twig. We are hanging out, with friends, doing laundry, whatever normal pedestrians do on week nights. The phone rings. It was usually a limb coord. or corps coord. or assistant to such.
"We want to do a 'witnessing week-end' for the in-rez corps. How many teams of corps can you host?" In other words, who in your branch is willing to house and feed a bunch of corpbees for said week-end? Usually, we had to "get back" with somebody ina couple of days.
Ok, our twiggies were very generous with their time and resources and loved to have company come and visit. We get swamped with corps people, out witnessing, etc. They stay for maybe a week-end, then leave all us regular civilians to "follow up" on people. And then there was Lightbearers, a little more involved. OK, fine. We did what was asked of us. And kept running classes, having meetings, etc. It was ok.
But it did get to the point where nobody had the spare time or energy to do nothing but run classes and have meetings. Most of the believers in our branch had families to look after and kids to raise. Enuff of a challenge in itself.
But the ball is moving, our branch is "hot," and we keep getting inundated with corpbees. Fine. (I'm not even going to get into the ones who got "dismissed" and landed on our doorstep.)
Then somebody somewhere decides that we have to keep track of how many people are "witnessed to" by in-rez corps, and how many "take the class." OK, more paperwork and keeping track of people. Fine.
Then somebody somewhere decides that not only do we have to keep track of the "witnessed to" but also of the corps people doing the witnessing. We asked to fill out reports on their "performance." WHAT????
I can barely keep up with my own self going to work, paying bills, renting rooms, running classes, having meetings, and now I have to keep up with GUESTS IN MY HOME? Are you people nuts????
Anyway, it got to be the hamster on the wheel, and selfish me, I wanted to have a marriage and a life that was my own. As did my husband. Things were happening in TWI, that we had issues with. (this was circa 1985-86.)
So we decided, that in order for us to grow as a couple, consider having kids, pursue our professional dreams, we needed to back off ministry stuff. Climbing the TWI corporate ladder was NOT what we wanted. Of course, hubby was talked to about his "future with the ministry, how he should say 'yes' to ordination, take another corps assignment with "more areas of responsibility," etc. We talked, I balked, we said "no thank you." We decided that in order to keep our integrity, build our marriage relationship, and just generally stay to true to ourselves, we needed to back off. however, we were also willing to host twig, even oversee a few twigs, and run as many classes as we could handle.
You'd a thunk we were spawn of the devil himself. (Except for our Limb coordinator who was actually supportive and understood and was fantastic at making sure nobody gave us too much sheet.)
But then we moved, in the summer of 86 to another area, actually hubby's home town, where he had started the first twig. We agreed to oversee that twig as well as the one in the next town.
Needless to say, the other corps in the state were suspicious of us. In their eyes, we had been "demoted."
Even after we explained our choice over and over again, and dared talk about some of the "problems" we saw with the way things were run, and how people were "handled," most corpbees in our new state treated us as "troublemakers." They didn't know what to do with us. We were still "in good standing," highly recommended, etc. etc., but we dared "do our own thing."
We were a threat to the status quo. And were treated as such. Shoot, I've said too much already. I hate long posts, so will end here. But the same exact thing happened to some of our fellow corps grads.
The definition of "the lifetime of Christian service" changed constantly, and depended on who you were, where you were, and who your leadership was. This is the point of going into detail about "our story."
It was never specifically defined at all. It was one of those vague generalities that made a great sound byte.
mark, you and I were posting at the same time. Wow.
***TL cautiously raises her head above the parapets***
I always looked at the ministry of reconciliation as a God-given right to all members in the Body of Christ..... not equating it with a designated man's ministry, ie. twi.
Amen
It is the Right of every Christian--and since it is a right no one has the authority to tell you how to live your life while doing it. They can not agree, they can go about it differently , but how you do it is between you and God and you are answerable to Him
Preparation for a lifetime of service as it's being quoted here was never an ironclad committment to work for and/or with the Way forever when I went in. Sure, everyone that went in wanted to be involved in that, with the Way for the most part. That's why I wanted to go there - I chose the Way and they were glad to have people at that time at least.
There's no question that it got balled up pretty quick. And VPW was at the center of it. He wanted everyone to be committed to the Way, the place that "taught you the Word" as it hadn't been known, etc. etc. In a way he was like the party host from hell - you can go to the party, just don't try to leave early, or ever. It's the best party in the world, what's the matter with you, why would you ever want to go anywhere else? Sit down, have some more chips.
Navigating your own life and plans was a challenge. ex10th's experience isn't unique. Many people got caught up in the momentum of other people's plans and goals.
Where it gets sticky is that involvement in the Way became a point of doctrine. That things like -
being in fellowship and harmony with God
being blessed and happy in life
having a true more than abundant life, ie John 10:10
prospering financially
having health
having your prayers answered
having a sucssessful family life
in fact, all the things that the PFAL class advertised a knowledge of the bible in application would produce -
were contingent ALSO on staying in fellowship with the Way. If you left the Way's fellowship, later known as the "household" you'd lose or drastically reduce your odds of having the kind of life that you'd learned GOD provided, in PFAL teachings.
The idea of conflict wasn't built so much on the "committment" for a lifetime to the Way but rather on the greater committment to the person's faith. If that faith was taught as including these other things, like never leaving the Way or doing what someone tells you to do - you could end up in a bad situation. One starts to rely on the other. You WANT to do the right thing, you DON'T want to do bad things, and you ARE being told that such and such a thing is the "right" thing to do if you want to maintain your faith and fellowship with God.
For a group like the Way, where TEACHING is constant and all pervasive, that makes for a very volatile situation.
So the people who suffered the worst were the ones willing to give the most. If you really were excited about the bible, Christianity, spreading "the Word" in a way that would allow you to be closely involved in peoples lives and you chose to have the Corps training be your route to learning how to better do that - you got hit eventually with a big fat attitude - that if you sought to expand your resources and capacity outside of WayWorld, you would be treated differently, as less "committed", and ultimately less "blessed", basically a liability.
Yeah, sock.......thanks!
As the decades roll by, LIFE CHANGES.
But twi attempts to keep life as a fixation of wierwille lore. Pleasantville......New Knoxville. Everything is supposed to have its constant state of being as it was, a pfal-promotion display.
No passionate concern for people's lives......where dynamics are changing. A 19 year old apprentice corps is supposed to stay LIKE THAT throughout life. But such is not reality. Add a few years.......marriage? family? career options? further education? career promotions? company-assigned relocation?
OR........one could climb twi's ladder and go the staff route!! Stay on staff, live the pfal-promotion lifestyle, usher at the sunday service, isolate oneself from his earthly family and society completely. Pat himself on the back for how righteous and committed he is.
Imo, wierwille and his top leadership FAILED MISERABLY. They refused to accept the dynamics of people's lives, their goals, their God-at-work-within-them uniqueness, their growing children, etc. Had wierwille and martindale walked with the passion of TRUE MINISTERS, they would have seen the heavy burdens that they were placing on the corps, the committed advanced class grads.
With proper balance and implemented boundary lines........living as ambassadors for Christ AND in harmony with twi could have been a grand undertaking.
Somebody tell me to shut up! if what I have to say isn't valid. Honestly, the only reason I keep talking is because as socks said, "my experience WAS NOT UNIQUE." What happened to me and my husband happened to alot of us, in my world anyway.
.....
.....
We were a threat to the status quo. And were treated as such. Shoot, I've said too much already. I hate long posts, so will end here. But the same exact thing happened to some of our fellow corps grads.
The definition of "the lifetime of Christian service" changed constantly, and depended on who you were, where you were, and who your leadership was. This is the point of going into detail about "our story."
Thanks ex10.....for posting some of your story.
It wouldn't surprise me if about 2000 other former corps.....had similar experiences.
ex 10 and I PM'd each other for a bit today. I think we have it figured out where I stayed. It was not with ex10 or WD :( but I do remember they were wonderful to us.
ex10, unfortunately it wasn't uncommon, if you were around long enough you heard or observed or experienced it.
Looking back, geez. The people doing this kind of stuff were so young, so immature and so much in their own growth curve - it's no wonder. I know some people did their best, weren't being deliberately malicious or greedy. But I maintain that the growth was just too fast - people were put into sink-or-swim situations too often and when they sank it wasn't always just them going down.
Figure the Way went from a little farm-based church with a hundred or so members, tops to having 3 campuses, all in less then 10 years.
You look at all the people that went in the Way Corps, got married and got divorced. Everybody's part of a ministry that's big on "family". One of the PFAL benefits - "harmony in the home". You'd think there'd be more harmony and warm fuzzies than a DVD of Ozzie and Harriet reruns. But the large percentage of irreconcilable conflicts says something, and it isn't the horsewash about one "believing" and one "not". The overall environment of the Way Corps community wasn't conducive to doing what men and women do everywhere when they get married and what the Way taught even from the bible -
-leave home
-start their own
-build their futures together.
No, the Way Corps was like having 2,000 of your best friends for in-laws. People had one "coordinator" after another in their stuff. Sometimes it took a lot of effort to just say "go-aWAY" and leave us alone. Way Leaders were the nosiest dammed people in the world, always wanted to get together with everyone and "help". Somebody's got too much time on their hands, y'know?
A "committment" to a lifetime of service is one thing. To - commit time and resources to "prepare" for that is another. That's a literal committment as you're putting forth some effort, some life, to become what you have in your heart.
What that's eventually going to be is where we're at now, me anyway.
Well, my soap box is sagging. My next book will address a lot of this, so order now! It's going to be titled "How To Make a Million Helping Me Make A Billion!" It's sure to thrill, so watch for it!
Well, my soap box is sagging. My next book will address a lot of this, so order now! It's going to be titled "How To Make a Million Helping Me Make A Billion!" It's sure to thrill, so watch for it!
Will it contain tales of any of your Amazing exploits?
Looking back at those inresidence years, the way corps stuff was mostly rah-rah hype. "Training?"........... actually the more apt description would be programming.
The first three months of my corps programming were.....pfal re-runs. We sat thru wierwille's class...... again! Then, those other classes.....renewed mind, waytree, wit & undershep, etc.... I couldn't believe that THIS was almighty "corps training." Same stuff, different classroom.
"In your face"......could have been the motto for the way corps. But hey......I was young and naive and used to team sports where coaches do that sort of thing. Class after class after class.......speakers and "teachers" would drive home the points of a dale carnegie book, or jc is not g book, etc. Sometimes, I would balk and say......don't these guys know we can READ???????
And, they assumed we were idiots or something. Like the gun training thing, it took about five hours of waiting around before I held a shotgun and fired two shots............TWO SHOTS. I never had the heart to tell those "shooting range guys" that I had been pheasant hunting and rabbit hunting since I was old enough to carry a gun!! Twenty-guage shotgun, twelve-guage shotgun, .22 caliber rifle, bow & arrow, ........... been around, done that.
And, those "literal translations according to usage" teachings by wierwille corps nights...........word by word expounding. What an incredible waste of time........ never knew one corps person who referred back to their notes after the year was up......NOT ONE. Years rolled by........and I threw all those notes in the trash. Just never used 'em.......
Even sundays were jammed with meetings....branch household responsibility meeting (like plurality palace), then get over at 9:30am to usher for the 10:30am meeting, lunch, maybe another meeting after lunch, then the evening service, an afterglow meeting, etc. Can you say.....meeting overload??????
Looking back.....I find myself asking the same question over and over......"why did I stay so long?????" And, I guess the most concrete answer......I was caught up in the hype, the sales pitch, the mantra of word over the world.
The corps "training" was little more than PROGRAMMING MEETING MENTALITY. As long as your butt was in your assigned seat, then all was well. Twi leadership prided themselves on numbers, filled seats. No real genuine concern or compassion for questions, feelings, character-building, strong suits, individuality, prayerful consideration, etc..........just a wierwille-overload of "I've got the answers."
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
21
31
21
41
Popular Days
Mar 13
64
Mar 14
60
Mar 11
55
Mar 16
42
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 21 posts
skyrider 31 posts
oldiesman 21 posts
WhiteDove 41 posts
Popular Days
Mar 13 2006
64 posts
Mar 14 2006
60 posts
Mar 11 2006
55 posts
Mar 16 2006
42 posts
Tom Strange
Very well put my friend from the sock drawer... very well put...
Those are my thoughts exactly (how did you know what was in my head?)... I think that's how a lot of us "viewed" it...
Thanks for so eloquently putting it "down on paper"...
Please W.D. I'm begging you... let the brochure thing go... it's not even relevent... I'll give you money...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Well Tom as soon as Radar quits bringing it up maybe. But it is revevent it is the documentation to the point.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
just let it go, please... you don't have to have the last word...
Edited by Tom StrangeLink to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
You know, this sort of reminds me of an exaggerated version of the "no debt policy" thread that was on top here about a month ago.
The conclusions that I drew from the 'no debt' policy are pretty much the same as the conclusions that I am seeing here. That is that the Corps program took a perfectly valid concept and totally perverted it.
OK, so to make it more clear this time, I'll spell out my point explicitly: it appeared to me that VP wanted to create his own religious order that would be totally accountable to him. Nothing inherently wrong with that, in of itself (in other words, had VP believed and taught a legitimate theology that actually was designed to worship and serve God rather than his own perversions, the Way Corps could have been a good thing).
The similarities between religious orders and the Corps:
- Both were expected to be under obedience: if "leadership" gave an order, the members of the order/ the Corps were expected to follow that order -- go here, go there, start this project, stop this project, etc.
- Both were expected to place their commitment to God above all other commitments: material wealth and other temporal considerations were not to be a factor when considering the commitment.
- Both were expected to have a certain 'authoritativeness' in their presence. If "sister joan" said something in regards to God, the laity would give her statement a lot of credence. If "Corps grad joan" said something within her twig, the 'leaves' of the twig would be expected to give her statement a lot of credence.
- Both had certain 'charisms' (missions). Religious orders are, in large part, organized through common interests: some would be teaching orders, some would be hospital orders, some would be orders working around service to the poor, some would be contemplative orders. The Way Corps, if I remember my history correctly, were all supposed to be teachers: but, at least at some period in time, weren't they also supposed to ingrain themselves in different segments of society? (I know that later on, they became TWI's version of the Geheimstaatspolizei (Gestapo), but initially, that wasn't the case, was it?)
But here's where it -- to my understanding -- got screwed up with the Corpse. (Please keep in mind that a lot of these observations are from real, live people I talked to, reading a lot of you all here, and reading a lot of documents...I fully acknowledge that none of this is from first hand experience -- so feel free to correct where I have it wrong)
- In religious orders, the members are all single. There are no family ties to bind them. In the Way Corps, many were married, many had families, and most ended up that way a few years after graduation. St. Paul, in 1 Cor 7, correctly pointed out that families would prevent folks from being able to fully follow in his footsteps. How many lives were screwed up simply as the result of the fact that a Way Corps person was married (with or without children)? What I mean by this is that a directive that, to a single person solely focused on serving God w/o concern for the things of this world, would be reasonable, would be totally irresponsible when given to a person with a spouse and children?
- In religious orders, the members have all taken a vow of poverty. They have no personal property. Coupled with the fact that most Way Corps people ended up married (with or without kids), how much did property cause an internal conflict within the individual Way Corps person? House (mortgage or long-term lease), car(s), etc.? And if those things DIDN'T cause a conflict, was that individual (likely married) Way Corps person taking care of his/her family responsibilities properly?
- In religious orders, the members take a vow of celibacy. (Yes, I know it doesn't always work out that way, but they do take that vow and most are faithful to that vow) Celibacy is, from all understanding, hardly a consideration for the Way Corps. From what I've gathered, the teaching was that sex was perfectly OK "if you were spirtual enough to handle it." From what I've read on gsc alone, there have been a number of female corps members who were apparently selected for the role because some "MOG" wished to use them sexually. I've read here about at least one suicide that resulted from that type of relationship. I've heard of one who was pressured into having an abortion. And so on and so forth. Sex was often used as an enticement. Sometimes used as a weapon. What kind of complications happened as a result of not having celibacy as a requirement? (Again, I encourage you to read 1 Cor 7:33-35 before passing judgement on me) -- at least for a defined period of service.
So, like I said, it appeared that VP was taking a model that almost eerily resembled certain religious orders...a perfectly good model that has Biblical foundations...and twisted and perverted it with the result being a lot of folks whose lives ended up hurt through the process.
And, as with all my posts, it is IMHO and is FWIW. Of course, YMMV.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
Ok, I have more to say.
Somebody tell me to shut up! if what I have to say isn't valid. Honestly, the only reason I keep talking is because as socks said, "my experience WAS NOT UNIQUE." What happened to me and my husband happened to alot of us, in my world anyway.
Once we complied with our "corps assignment," we got into it. I mean, we resigned ourselves to the fact that our own personal goals were gonna be put on hold for awhile, well, because "the ministry needed us." Yes, it's true, we were told that, and bought into it. sigh.....
Anyway, once we became branch coordinators, we got into, loved the good and gracious people in our branch who welcomed us with open arms and open hearts. It was a beeeeyoootiful thang. Really.
Then, the mess ensued.......Let me explain.
Because of our proximity to Emporia, we got to be involved with the way corps in-training, whether we wanted to or not. Just about everybody in our branch, us included, were normal humans who went to work at a job, then came home, and did way stuff "after hours." Evenings and week-ends we ran twigs, classes, did special event things, etc. Life is good.
The thing that got messed up, was this: Random Wednesday evening, no twig. We are hanging out, with friends, doing laundry, whatever normal pedestrians do on week nights. The phone rings. It was usually a limb coord. or corps coord. or assistant to such.
"We want to do a 'witnessing week-end' for the in-rez corps. How many teams of corps can you host?" In other words, who in your branch is willing to house and feed a bunch of corpbees for said week-end? Usually, we had to "get back" with somebody ina couple of days.
Ok, our twiggies were very generous with their time and resources and loved to have company come and visit. We get swamped with corps people, out witnessing, etc. They stay for maybe a week-end, then leave all us regular civilians to "follow up" on people. And then there was Lightbearers, a little more involved. OK, fine. We did what was asked of us. And kept running classes, having meetings, etc. It was ok.
But it did get to the point where nobody had the spare time or energy to do nothing but run classes and have meetings. Most of the believers in our branch had families to look after and kids to raise. Enuff of a challenge in itself.
But the ball is moving, our branch is "hot," and we keep getting inundated with corpbees. Fine. (I'm not even going to get into the ones who got "dismissed" and landed on our doorstep.)
Then somebody somewhere decides that we have to keep track of how many people are "witnessed to" by in-rez corps, and how many "take the class." OK, more paperwork and keeping track of people. Fine.
Then somebody somewhere decides that not only do we have to keep track of the "witnessed to" but also of the corps people doing the witnessing. We asked to fill out reports on their "performance." WHAT????
I can barely keep up with my own self going to work, paying bills, renting rooms, running classes, having meetings, and now I have to keep up with GUESTS IN MY HOME? Are you people nuts????
Anyway, it got to be the hamster on the wheel, and selfish me, I wanted to have a marriage and a life that was my own. As did my husband. Things were happening in TWI, that we had issues with. (this was circa 1985-86.)
So we decided, that in order for us to grow as a couple, consider having kids, pursue our professional dreams, we needed to back off ministry stuff. Climbing the TWI corporate ladder was NOT what we wanted. Of course, hubby was talked to about his "future with the ministry, how he should say 'yes' to ordination, take another corps assignment with "more areas of responsibility," etc. We talked, I balked, we said "no thank you." We decided that in order to keep our integrity, build our marriage relationship, and just generally stay to true to ourselves, we needed to back off. however, we were also willing to host twig, even oversee a few twigs, and run as many classes as we could handle.
You'd a thunk we were spawn of the devil himself. (Except for our Limb coordinator who was actually supportive and understood and was fantastic at making sure nobody gave us too much sheet.)
But then we moved, in the summer of 86 to another area, actually hubby's home town, where he had started the first twig. We agreed to oversee that twig as well as the one in the next town.
Needless to say, the other corps in the state were suspicious of us. In their eyes, we had been "demoted."
Even after we explained our choice over and over again, and dared talk about some of the "problems" we saw with the way things were run, and how people were "handled," most corpbees in our new state treated us as "troublemakers." They didn't know what to do with us. We were still "in good standing," highly recommended, etc. etc., but we dared "do our own thing."
We were a threat to the status quo. And were treated as such. Shoot, I've said too much already. I hate long posts, so will end here. But the same exact thing happened to some of our fellow corps grads.
The definition of "the lifetime of Christian service" changed constantly, and depended on who you were, where you were, and who your leadership was. This is the point of going into detail about "our story."
It was never specifically defined at all. It was one of those vague generalities that made a great sound byte.
mark, you and I were posting at the same time. Wow.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Amen to that Socks. I passed up the chance to go corps (did U. of L. instead), but the *principles* were the same.
For those of you not familiar with the University of Life program,
which was dropped somewhere (I think) in the late 1980's,
was a program designed to bring the *excellence* of the
Way Corps teachings to you in your home (via cassette tape),
designed for those who COULD NOT GO CORPS.
Now -- I'm quoting from my U of L syllabus, page iii ---
"THE UNIVERSITY OF LIFE
Goal:
The word in culture, which is Word over the World.
Principles:
1.) Aquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness.
2.) Receive training in the whole Word so as to be able to teach others.
3.) Physical training making your physical body, the "vehicle" of the communication of the Word, as vital as possible.
4.) Practice believing to bring material abundance to you and the ministry.
5.) Go forth as leaders and workmen in areas of concern, interest and need."
NOWHERE does it say that twi was to send us, manipulate us, demand of us, yada, yada, yada.
U of L was designed for professional folks who had a good career going, and the intent of U of L
was that folks could learn some bible, AND CONTINUE IN THEIR PROFESSION AS THEY CHOSE.
(probably to facilitate principle #4) :unsure:
Anyone who says the corps did this or that, is to me probably right. I wouldn't know, personally.
Myself and other University of Life students, were *unbranded Mavericks*,
free from the thumb screw-holds twi had on those living in rez.
I certainly had a committment to the goals, but not twi --
which at the time were synonomous, but boy did that ever change. :(
(Oh -- Ya'll wanna hear the *kicker* here??)
To enter U of L, one had to state their reason for NOT BEING ABLE TO ENTER THE CORPS.
My reason?? I simply told them I didn't want to. Period.
I wasn't a doctor with a successful practice, nor a lawyer, nor a businessman
making a gazillion of bucks that could be funneled twi's way.
I told them that I liked learning the Word *in depth*,
but wasn't willing to relocate to Ohio to do so.
I'm trying to live up to my end of the agreement.
Sadly -- twi is not living up to theirs.
(How ya doing, Rosie? Weren't you in charge of U of L, when it went down the tubes?)
<_< <_<
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
Thanks for the post Socks. Well said...
JL
Link to comment
Share on other sites
templelady
***TL cautiously raises her head above the parapets***
Amen
It is the Right of every Christian--and since it is a right no one has the authority to tell you how to live your life while doing it. They can not agree, they can go about it differently , but how you do it is between you and God and you are answerable to Him
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Yeah, sock.......thanks!
As the decades roll by, LIFE CHANGES.
But twi attempts to keep life as a fixation of wierwille lore. Pleasantville......New Knoxville. Everything is supposed to have its constant state of being as it was, a pfal-promotion display.
No passionate concern for people's lives......where dynamics are changing. A 19 year old apprentice corps is supposed to stay LIKE THAT throughout life. But such is not reality. Add a few years.......marriage? family? career options? further education? career promotions? company-assigned relocation?
OR........one could climb twi's ladder and go the staff route!! Stay on staff, live the pfal-promotion lifestyle, usher at the sunday service, isolate oneself from his earthly family and society completely. Pat himself on the back for how righteous and committed he is.
Imo, wierwille and his top leadership FAILED MISERABLY. They refused to accept the dynamics of people's lives, their goals, their God-at-work-within-them uniqueness, their growing children, etc. Had wierwille and martindale walked with the passion of TRUE MINISTERS, they would have seen the heavy burdens that they were placing on the corps, the committed advanced class grads.
With proper balance and implemented boundary lines........living as ambassadors for Christ AND in harmony with twi could have been a grand undertaking.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Hey, it seems like the fighting has died down.
Well, socks has put things very well. you can't run a mininstry that is supposed to have God at it's center and not have change.
ex10, thanks for sharing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Thanks ex10.....for posting some of your story.
It wouldn't surprise me if about 2000 other former corps.....had similar experiences.
:blink:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
justloafing
I wonder if I stayed at your house ex10?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
It's a good possibility, JL. :B) If you did, I hope you enjoyed your stay.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
So - a recap in my own words:
Ex10 and her hubby were told they could finish college after being in residence.
After being in residence they were told that they would be able to finish their studies - but not quite yet..
Geez - for a ministry that made such an outward show of integrity and placed so much value on keeping one's word - seems twi feel far short.
New slogan fot TWI:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tonto
Good slogan, dooj.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
I wonder if I stayed at your house ex10?
JL you may have stayed at mine if you did .. Me too ,yeah what Ex said. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
Hey dove, we figured out he stayed at Jay and N's house. ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Well I'll see them later, Guess I'll say hi! for you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
justloafing
ex 10 and I PM'd each other for a bit today. I think we have it figured out where I stayed. It was not with ex10 or WD :( but I do remember they were wonderful to us.
Edited by justloafingLink to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Well, ring that bell, y'r'all welcome.
ex10, unfortunately it wasn't uncommon, if you were around long enough you heard or observed or experienced it.
Looking back, geez. The people doing this kind of stuff were so young, so immature and so much in their own growth curve - it's no wonder. I know some people did their best, weren't being deliberately malicious or greedy. But I maintain that the growth was just too fast - people were put into sink-or-swim situations too often and when they sank it wasn't always just them going down.
Figure the Way went from a little farm-based church with a hundred or so members, tops to having 3 campuses, all in less then 10 years.
You look at all the people that went in the Way Corps, got married and got divorced. Everybody's part of a ministry that's big on "family". One of the PFAL benefits - "harmony in the home". You'd think there'd be more harmony and warm fuzzies than a DVD of Ozzie and Harriet reruns. But the large percentage of irreconcilable conflicts says something, and it isn't the horsewash about one "believing" and one "not". The overall environment of the Way Corps community wasn't conducive to doing what men and women do everywhere when they get married and what the Way taught even from the bible -
-leave home
-start their own
-build their futures together.
No, the Way Corps was like having 2,000 of your best friends for in-laws. People had one "coordinator" after another in their stuff. Sometimes it took a lot of effort to just say "go-aWAY" and leave us alone. Way Leaders were the nosiest dammed people in the world, always wanted to get together with everyone and "help". Somebody's got too much time on their hands, y'know?
A "committment" to a lifetime of service is one thing. To - commit time and resources to "prepare" for that is another. That's a literal committment as you're putting forth some effort, some life, to become what you have in your heart.
What that's eventually going to be is where we're at now, me anyway.
Well, my soap box is sagging. My next book will address a lot of this, so order now! It's going to be titled "How To Make a Million Helping Me Make A Billion!" It's sure to thrill, so watch for it!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
Will it contain tales of any of your Amazing exploits?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Very good synopsis, socks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Looking back at those inresidence years, the way corps stuff was mostly rah-rah hype. "Training?"........... actually the more apt description would be programming.
The first three months of my corps programming were.....pfal re-runs. We sat thru wierwille's class...... again! Then, those other classes.....renewed mind, waytree, wit & undershep, etc.... I couldn't believe that THIS was almighty "corps training." Same stuff, different classroom.
"In your face"......could have been the motto for the way corps. But hey......I was young and naive and used to team sports where coaches do that sort of thing. Class after class after class.......speakers and "teachers" would drive home the points of a dale carnegie book, or jc is not g book, etc. Sometimes, I would balk and say......don't these guys know we can READ???????
And, they assumed we were idiots or something. Like the gun training thing, it took about five hours of waiting around before I held a shotgun and fired two shots............TWO SHOTS. I never had the heart to tell those "shooting range guys" that I had been pheasant hunting and rabbit hunting since I was old enough to carry a gun!! Twenty-guage shotgun, twelve-guage shotgun, .22 caliber rifle, bow & arrow, ........... been around, done that.
And, those "literal translations according to usage" teachings by wierwille corps nights...........word by word expounding. What an incredible waste of time........ never knew one corps person who referred back to their notes after the year was up......NOT ONE. Years rolled by........and I threw all those notes in the trash. Just never used 'em.......
Even sundays were jammed with meetings....branch household responsibility meeting (like plurality palace), then get over at 9:30am to usher for the 10:30am meeting, lunch, maybe another meeting after lunch, then the evening service, an afterglow meeting, etc. Can you say.....meeting overload??????
Looking back.....I find myself asking the same question over and over......"why did I stay so long?????" And, I guess the most concrete answer......I was caught up in the hype, the sales pitch, the mantra of word over the world.
The corps "training" was little more than PROGRAMMING MEETING MENTALITY. As long as your butt was in your assigned seat, then all was well. Twi leadership prided themselves on numbers, filled seats. No real genuine concern or compassion for questions, feelings, character-building, strong suits, individuality, prayerful consideration, etc..........just a wierwille-overload of "I've got the answers."
More later.............
Link to comment
Share on other sites
topoftheworld
...and just for fun, we PAID for it...or begged others to pay for us.
And all we were promised was a lousy T-shirt. (That's a joke, folks.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.