The Persecution of VPW

[ckmkeon]

I would tell them that "if" they were really hurt, I mean really hurt. Then I would say go to God and find a way to forgive them. Holding a grudge this long would be unhealthy.

Thank God for VPW,

CK

[Belle]

God's not here physically....how shall they hear without a preacher, ck? How are YOU going to teach them to have that comfort from God when they are so far gone....so far hurt that they can't hear God??

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

How can they trust and listen to you when you insist on adding the "IF" qualifier to their already proven hurt with plenty of witnesses to back their story?

Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?

Without just spouting verse at them, ck, HOW can you help them??? Without any real, true dialog and loving concern, HOW are you going to help them overcome their hurt? HOW are you going to help them by thanking God for the man who raped them - destroyed their lives and utterly ruined any trust in God that they so wanted??

How do you heal the hurts from a verifiable alcoholic? From a verifiable abuser? From a verifiable Dr Jeckyll / Mr Hyde who CLAIMED to speak for God, but rather was a wolf in sheep's clothing??

How do you do that, CK? How do you defend such a man and still mend the hearts of God's kids?? Don't just quote a bunch of Bible Verses - those mean nothing to folks who believed those verses when vee pee also used them to get them into the back of his motorcoach so he could rape them.....

[SafariVista]

WHAT WOULD YOU DO, THEY'RE IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE, YOUR BODY... YOU WOULD JUST SAY GO... TALK TO GOD?

We're talking about your SISTER, your BROTHER~

Where has your compassion gone man? That's like handing out ROCKS to someone who’s starving, while you walk away waving with your right hand, with a loaded Subway Sandwich in your left

You have an infection, and it stinks.

I would be willing to help you clean it up, but first you must be willing to allow it to be cleaned out, and it may sting a little~

[ckmkeon]

The advise that I gave is the best I can do, but any more help would have to come from a Pastor he would know how to resolve conflicts and problems that occured.

Thank God for VPW

CK

[doojable]

Ck, Have you ever been raped? If not, then do not presume that you know how to forgive someone in this area. I was "only" sexually accosted and I had a hard time forgiving. And I'm a pretty forgiving person - just look up my thread on forgiveness..... Evwen then, it took a lot to forgive . it's never so easy to just move on. Just try it sometime.

It's always easier to speak in terms of theory than in terms of reality.

You have a lot to learn.

Grow up.

Edited April 16, 2006 by doojable

[Belle]

Then quit praising the man who utterly destroyed their trust in God by raping them and destroying their lives. And furthermore, quit pretending to have all the answers and that just "trusting God" is the answer to everything. That's what you do, ck..... and we can all see you're full of sh1t ---- at least the grifter could quote verses and expound on them to get what he wants....you can't even do that....you're no charlatan, but your not helpful Christian taking care of his brothers and sisters in Christ, either....

You're just a parrot with no help, no love and no value to those who are truly hurt.

[SafariVista]

CK if that's the best you can do... then you don't know Jesus Christ, and the Word you have learned must have come from a self-seeking cult...

You appear, from your words, to be a cold, heartless individual who has practiced some devilish doctrine. (just like TWI doctrine)

Doojable has a good point?

Let's see, my girl friend's Uncle tried to rape me when I was 16. I fought him off, but he still managed to c*m all over my clothes. He professes to be a Christian, but I would NEVER trust him for anything. He has proven that he can't control himself. I stay FAR away from that guy!

So, if you were around me, and continued to bring this guys name up, because for some reason you liked him, I would probably do something to you... yell, oh I don't know... something

You would be considered a true idiot, and if then you tried to speak the Bible, you would not be heard, since you’d proven yourself to be corrupt.

So, your ending remark is meant to do what? Build up YOUR sisters in Christ that have been hurt...

Actually it sounds like idolatry... Perhaps Thank God for good health, or how about Thank God for a sound mind, or how about this one, Thank God for wisdom to know how to help a hurting brother or sister.

Are you poor... just wondering... Solomon only wanted wisdom to deal with God's people in the best way~ he became very wealthy... You want to defend a stinkin' man... thought you'd be poor~

So, if you were around me, and continued to bring this guys name up, because for some reason you liked him, I would probably do something to you... yell, oh I don't know... something

You would be considered a true idiot, and if then you tried to speak the Bible, you would not be heard, since you’d proven yourself to be corrupt.

So, your ending remark is meant to do what? Build up YOUR sisters in Christ that have been hurt...

Actually it sounds like idolatry... Perhaps Thank God for good health, or how about Thank God for a sound mind, or how about this one, Thank God for wisdom to know how to help a hurting brother or sister.

Are you poor... just wondering... Solomon only wanted wisdom to deal with God's people in the best way~ he became very wealthy... You want to defend a stinkin' man... thought you'd be poor~

[ckmkeon]

SafariVista Said

You appear, from your words, to be a cold, heartless individual who has practiced some devilish doctrine. (just like TWI doctrine)

Belle Said

and we can all see you're full of sh1t

You're just a parrot with no help, no love and no value to those who are truly hurt.

Dooj Said

Grow up.

Well That takes care of attacking the person with the opinions, I will answer 1 by 1

Safari If you mean Devilish doctrine to be VPW'S work then Yes I study his doctrines.

Belle I am no bird, I have love for people with real problems.

Dooj whatever, Why do you think I need you to tell me what to do (That is why I have parents)

The point of your persecution of someone who has a different opinion than yours is very extreme. While I do hope the best for you all NONE OF YOU, NOT ONE WILL CONVINCE ME THAT VPW WAS BAD. So I will continue saying thank god for VPW. VPW did a wonderful job he did God's will and he had the love of God in the renewed mind.

THANK GOD FOR VPW,

CK

[SafariVista]

Come on CK...answer the questions~

:)

[doojable]

I'd say its time to give up.

belle, safari vista, et all - there's a verse in corinthians about giving him up to........ remember it???

I'd say we might be there( but who knows anyway) - even if God isn't there - we need to pick our battles and go where we can do some good.

He doesn't want to hear what we have to say - I'm going a fishin - anyone wanna' come?

love

dooj

Edited April 17, 2006 by doojable

[Belle]

Dooj, I'll bring the sammiches....you want egg salad, pimento cheese or these BBQ ribs I've been saving to serve with my fried okra?

I put him on ignore after reading his last response...if you can call it a response.....No need to even waste my time any further. :)

[Goey]

Belle, et al,

CK is only here to hurt and sow discord. He is a troll. That is why he ends now with "Thank God for VPW". To rub salt into the wounds.

I recall a proverb about pearls and swine that may apply here

Also, Paul mentions a seared conscious in 1 Timothy

1Ti 4:2

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

.

We seen both the lies and the hipocrisy. It's gotta make you wonder what his parents taught him and what they are like ... I wonder if they are as ignorant of the truth as he is. Then again maybe it's not really ignorance but an intentional effort to sow discord and create strife here at GS. I highly suspect the latter. No one can be that stupid - can they?

Edited April 17, 2006 by Goey

[SafariVista]

How is Ignore operated?

:unsure:

Cause this guy is just bugging me~

[ckmkeon]

Goey

The Reason I put Thank God for VPW to show the perseverance of myself. I will not back down I will support VPW till I Die. He had good doctrines that is why I put it in there. The messege is a showing of strength in this place. This will be at the end of every post I make in GS.

Thank God for VPW,

CK

In order to ignore a user

1st click on the users name

2nd go to profile options

3rd click ignore user

4th follow directions

Thank God for VPW,

CK

[rascal]

Your calloused disregard for the pain you chose to inflict with that tag line , makes me very sad.

You completely disregard the 2nd great comandment Jesus spoke of and I have hereby lost all respect for you....

Further more...This shows just exactly how far adherance to twi dogma will take you away from basic human decency and compassion :(

Edited April 17, 2006 by rascal

[johniam]

quote: And how do either of you, CK & or Claude comfort the men and women that have been hurt by VP & other leaders of TWI?

They DON'T! Nor are they obligated to. God is the God of ALL comfort (2Cor.1:3). He's willing to give to you just as much as me. If you're not comforted, it's YOUR fault. You're ultimately not really going to God for comfort.

In 1 Thes. 4:13-17 it beautifully describes the gathering together. Then verse 18 says to COMFORT one another with the words of verses 13-17. Yet many church Christians falsely comfort one another with other words, like "he/she's in a better place" or "gone to be with Jesus". If the words which God says to comfort one another with don't comfort you, then it's YOUR fault!

So what do you do? You call yourselves compassionate out of one side of your mouths and then spew venom and bitterness on those of us who recognize VPW's good out of the other side. Nice.

[ckmkeon]

One thing that applies is why should I care about what people think of me. These are my set opinions and they will not change, though you find it harsh or disrespectful. I find it to be the truth VPW did good and you guys here can't stand it when someone says it.

Thank God for VPW,

CK

[excathedra]

i don't think you should care what people think of you, that's great, ck (something i constantly strive for)

and if something he did changed or blessed your life, i agree, thank god

god works in mysterious ways i've heard, and he can, he's god after all

[ckmkeon]

i don't think you should care what people think of you, that's great, ck (something i constantly strive for)

and if something he did changed or blessed your life, i agree, thank god

god works in mysterious ways i've heard, and he can, he's god after all

Thank you Excath and may god bless you as well.

Thank god for VPW,

CK

[rascal]

Ending your post with that tag line Harsh? Disrespectfull?? How about just plain Cruel buddy??

What an outstanding endorsement of WHY twi doctrine is so very toxic.

You just plain don`t give a damn who you hurt. Just one more bully.

[dmiller]

Thank God for VPW???

Here - for your perusal, is his death certificate -- (in case you haven't had a chance to see it yet).

[dmiller]

Sure -- let's ALL thank God for VPW who died from what he taught was a devil spirit.

Cancer -- life living of it's own self -- devil spirit. And he had it.

Wait a minute -- he taught the Word, he was forgiven for *iniquity*,

but he wasn't delivered from the *big bad* devil spirit he taught about -- was he??

Where was the *law of believing*, when he needed it most??

And that begs the question -- if he was so righteous, and forgiven,

and all that other *good stuff* --

how did that sucker cancer find a *home* in docvic, and stay there until the end?? Eh??

A) Docvic taught that cancer was caused by a devil spirit;

B) Docvic had cancer;

C) Possessed folks harbor devil spirits;

Draw yer own conclusions, CK -- but when you do ----------

be sure to add up A+B=C, and see what you come up with.

Docvic taught that himself. I guess that means ---

He lived and died by what he preached.

Edited April 17, 2006 by dmiller

[T-Bone]

Claude Davy posted at 4/15/2006 8:42 PM:

"…All in all, regardless of some errors, he was brave enough to teach us more fundamental details in research and if you listen carefully to him, Alot of individuals who got hurt would have not been victims of misquided so called brothers and sisters of Christ. The comfort of being born again and the knowledge he taught us freed many of us from alot od Dogma Doctrine that would have eventually lead our minds into a religious type slavery!!...He taught alot of us to think for ourselves, challenge everything regardless of whom its coming from. Many have forgotton that teaching and by their own error they got lead astray into harmful manipulative selfserving causes that had nothing to do with what VPW stood for…"

Ckmkeon posted 4/8/2006 10:20 PM:

"While just being here a short time the persecution of VPW is high on this site. The only thing I can say is "IF" VPW did this to any of you what makes you better to persecute him. Wouldn't it be better to be bigger than that and just forgive. I am not sure how hard it is to forgive but bible tells us to forgive. So if I had to come on this site I would leave in one second if I was coming here for help. The reason I am posting is the continued hostile, anger, and hate toward VPW and everyone who believes in it. Will the persecution continue I am not sure. We shall see."

Ckmkeon posted 4/16/2006 4:11 PM:

"I would tell them that "if" they were really hurt, I mean really hurt. Then I would say go to God and find a way to forgive them. Holding a grudge this long would be unhealthy.

Thank God for VPW."

The Kool-Aid is strong with these two…That was my first thought after reading Claude Davy's and Ckmkeon's posts. But perhaps that's a rush to judgment on my part…Claude & CK, I have to give you two the benefit of a doubt here on a couple of things: 1. You don't understand what Grease Spot Café is all about. 2. You are not Way Corps and have not been privy to how TWI actually works behind the scenes.

You may want to review the thread What do you think the purpose of GS is? under Grease Spot 101.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=4732

I personally believe one of the many functions of Grease Spot Café is to serve as a warning beacon – very similar to what we find in the New Testament, verses that alert people to the dangers and signs of doctrinal and practical error promoted by religious leaders: Matthew 7:15-23; 15:1-20;Luke 11:39-54; I Timothy 4:1-5; II Peter 2:1-22 to cite just a few passages…Would you say Jesus was persecuting the Pharisees and teachers of the law in Matthew 15:1-20 when he countered their critique of his disciples breaking the tradition of the elders by not washing their hands before they ate?

I'm hoping this nonsense will subside as you two get more familiar with WHAT ACTUALLY GOES ON HERE at Grease Spot Café. Have you looked up the word persecute? Webster defines it "to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict" and persecution is "the act or practice of persecuting especially those who differ in origin, religion, or social outlook." This is an open forum – people come here to express their individual viewpoints, to share their story, to debate doctrinal and practical issues regarding TWI, and thousands of other topics in an open communication format…If you want to hear about some persecution – try talking to any Corps that left TWI. I'm one of them. The moment my viewpoint changed from TWI's I was marked and avoided. I still have the letters I got from my corps brothers and sisters – dialogues between me and them that were very frustrating – because I would argue a doctrinal or practical point where I think TWI needed to re-address and they would attack me – saying I've been seduced by devil spirits or flat-out possessed! This really goes to show you how strong groupthink can be! If everyone is thinking alike – is anyone thinking?!?!?! I think Ckmkeon's thread What happened to the Word? should really be titled What happened to thinking?

I'd like to mention a few things about another word thrown around – forgiveness. What is the point of forgiveness? The goal of forgiveness is reconciliation. Bringing two parties back together – a sinner back to God or two believers reconciling differences. Hmmmmm – do you think there should be willingness on the part of both parties? Duh – yeah!!!...Ck, I noticed you're real big on the word "if" – as seen in the above posts – a pivotal word in Luke 17: 3,4 as well, where Jesus is speaking of a brother that sins, "…if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him." In my opinion – it is therefore unbiblical to demand an offended believer to forgive someone if they have not repented – made no effort to come back to the offended party to express repentance or ask forgiveness. Have you read a thread I started Why you can't sweep it under the Carpet – it's under About the Way. It sort of gets into the same thing – the ball is really in TWI's court – and they do NOTHING!

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=9344

In my opinion, you are at a disadvantage in trying to assess what went on in the crisis time period following Passing of the Patriarch reading to the Corps. Ever wonder why a lot of Corps left over a brief span of time? Again, this is just my theory – but TWI has a centralized form of government – instead of Christ being the head of the church – the board of trustees are the head – directing the doctrinal and practical flow of things, establishing public opinion, and setting priorities and agendas. When Patriarch was read – confusion and disarray overwhelmed all levels of leadership even at the board of trustee level. People aren't robots – without domineering leadership being very directive – people tended to operate in a more autonomous mode [maybe even thinking for themselves]. This theory is re-enforced when I think of my own experience in leaving TWI in 1986 and eventually coming to Grease Spot Café in 2006. I read a lot of books, did a lot of Bible studies – but really didn't have much social contact with any ex-TWI folk. By the time I got to Grease Spot I found it re-assuring [and even humorous] that a lot of the Café patrons have come to very similar conclusions to what I figured out…

Edited April 17, 2006 by T-Bone

[excathedra]

ok i can't read that font

as far as veepee being brave, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

and what did someone say about misguided hurt victims ? oh crapola

the comfort oh the comfort of being on that stinking coach

[alfakat]

why give any heed to ignorant little children like these? they convict themseles out of their own mouth....

defined biblically as fools they are not worth your breath or time.

Thet were not there, they do not know and cannot say what is true and what is not. pathetic, really...

do not engage them, you will receive more intelligent response from a mule or a jackass then from such as these. Ignore them, they will depart...