I don't tithe, but we give in other ways. Not usually to churches, but usually to the needy. The way never really gave to the needy. I gave the way so much money over the years that I'm sure it'll take a long time for me to catch up on what I should have given to the needy!
However, to answer the second part of your question, life got better for me when I stopped tithing.
I do still believe that a person who doesn't give anything is like the Dead Sea. I just don't let anybody put legalism on me. Christ fulfilled the law, and that includes any percent of any kind. Fulfilled means fulfilled. It's not law. It's supposed to come from our hearts, not our calculators, else it's religious instead of spiritual. Anything else is private interpretation.
Wierwille always jumped on other people for privately interpreting the Bible, but he never seemed to mind much doing it himself, whether about tithing, abortion, or sex outside of marriage.
You know, I stopped tithing a long time ago. It didn't seem to make a difference one way or the other.
Also, I hope you know that TWI is hardly the only group that teaches tithing.
Anyway, for the past many years, I've had the following philosophy about giving: I give what I can afford to give without causing a negative impact on my family. I try to be a little conservative with my spending (e.g., I could afford a better computer, but my computer is a 5 year old Pentium 3 laptop...it still works for what I need of it, so why waste money on a new 'puter? -- I'll get a new one when I can't run my apps on it). That conservatism makes it so that there is still money available at the end of the pay period.
This is a topic that stumped me for a VERY long time.....TWI taught about tithing pretty much from the jest of Malachi and that we had basically better tithe "or else". A doctrine they had thrown in was that the 10% tithe caused a *standing believing believer in the household* to get blessed in the physical catagory whereas tithing above the 10% caused a *standing believing believer in the household* to get blessed back in the spiritual catagory. (So, this means that God is a respecter of givers???)
Well, it doesn't say anywhere in the Church Epistles that anyone is SUPPOSE to tithe, but rather - God loves a cheerful giver and to work with your hands the thing which is good so that you have to give.
....so that you have to give. Now tell me folks out there in cyber-land.......what if a believer can't afford to give 10%? Are they now in debt because they're giving more than they can afford?
TWI and the Word are two different things when it comes to tithe.
Yes I tithe when I can afford to.
Is my life better for it? Yes. Because I understand why I'm doing something so simple....not half-hazardly.
The same, however, beat this...Since leaving in 1995 I have had basically 3 jobs. ALL turned out to be 40 hr week pay for an average of 15 hours work put in PLUS a company car.
For minimal effort I advanced the companies turnover substantially and in one case quite substantially.
Also I firmly believe that a.b.s. (which I still do) was directly/indirectly involved in 'revelation' received on a cupla occasions that saved at least two of our childrens lives.
I guess what I'm saying is don't just look at the 'bottom line'.
And if I may refer anyone interested to www.cffm.org, then click on audio and listen to Kevin Gigous' "overflowing witness", Wayne Clapps "consider your ways", and his latest, " the two annointings". Also Bob Darnells last one ( can't remember title ). Some new stuff I hadn't heard even after 9 years in the way.
A friend of mine stopped in my office the other day to tell me that his wife had left him over the weekend and went out of state. She took the car and every bit of the money in the bank except $10.00. When she left she told him that she would be back in about an hour..........but she was in Oklahoma by the following day.
He was stunned and in shock. I knew that somehow I should help him. Now TWI would have taught that in order to overcome this he should take the class and tithe from that $10.00. Instead, I got a couple of other folks together and we combined our different resources to provide him with some cash and food and plans to be able to get some money together in the near future.
I just knew in my heart that this was the right thing to do with any abundance that I might have in my life. Everyone lovingly chipped in and his heart became more at peace as the week went by. To me this is tithing and sharing of abundance. This would have been my idea of a self sustaining fellowship also, what fellowship was like before all the money that was shared was directed to be funneled back to HQ. I am not going to help buy any preachers armani suits, or fancy houses and cars anymore. I just did what I felt God would want me to do in this situation, not looking for any reward, just helping a fellow human being who was in need at the time. This situation if told to leadership in the 90's would have brought on a verbal assault on how he would need to take the class blah blah blah blah.
Oh Gosh...this was THE most terrifying part of leaving twi. My spouse REFUSED to tithe.
I cried, I begged, I whined, to no avail. I was still constrained be the *he was the head of the household* teachings and that I couldn`t argue with his decisions....
I was TERRIFIED daily, I waited for Satan to kill one of the children, every little bump in the road Inumbly accepted as our just due for not tithing.
I was sick with dread ...assuming that satan had been allowed to run rampant in our lives as we had been taught .... I thought in leaving twi, tithing would be our ace in the hole to keep the horrible consequences of no longer being in the household.....
I just knew that it would be the *Job* story all over again... in the end mark would be broken and alone the kids and I all destroyed in one manner or another....and he would probably come to his senses....he would probably , like job, return to God and be blessed with a new family and even greater ritches.....too bad about the first one eh?
Imagine my surprise when as the weeks and months passed, not only did we NOT die....our numbers began to increase (significantly) our prosperity increased....our lives blessed time and again.....
It was a long time before the dread in my heart melted though and that I could beging to enjoy the generocity of God`s abundance.
In Marks behalf, i did find out in later years about families he had supported when they were in bad need...individuals that needed a helping hand...he was very generous....it just wasn`t a structured tithe like we were told God required.
Me, I try to take care of the animals and strays...
I would have to say that my life was significantly better without the tithe....but being free to give where I saw need...and that isn`t always money.
Some people and I know have made it our business to help an elderly neighbor operate her farm after she nearly died last year stuck in the freezing mud while trying to feed her horses.
One of us carries her shopping, some of us haul hay for her from the loft and place it within easy reach for her....sometimes we haul her to the dr.
We don`t even know each other...but feel that as a group we are doing God`s will, in keeping our neighbor out of a nursing home.
I would have to say that my life was significantly better without the tithe....but being free to give where I saw need...and that isn`t always money.
AMEN!!!
I grew up with extremely generous parents. We were always having college kids over for home-cooked meals – living in our guest bedroom because they couldn’t afford to pay rent – giving them money - going to mow an elderly person’s lawn – fixing baskets of food for families in need ….. It was just a part of life and we enjoyed every minute of it – they also gave to the church, but to other organizations, groups, individuals also… As kids we had to tithe off any money we received.
In TWI those folks were not “worthy” of my time because they were wallowing in sin and what they needed was “the word”. If they didn’t want “the word” then they didn’t deserve anything from me.
Now, I can give in any way, shape or form that I choose and that delights my soul to no end! I love to give where there is a true need or where it will be truly appreciated. It’s from the heart and it’s with love and that makes all the difference.
I have an elderly couple in my neighborhood and we’ve adopted each other. I even call them Grandpa Bert and Gramma Mary. I take care of their dogs when they go out of town; I move heavy things for them; I fix Bert dinner when Mary’s out of town….they check on Vixen during the day for me; Mary weeds my garden and sweeps my driveway and sidewalk. Whoever is out first after the garbage men come by, we put the other’s garbage can up against the garage.
I’ve put a substantial amount of money in a plain envelope and left it on the desk of a co-worker who was having major dental work done and couldn’t afford to do that and buy Christmas presents for her kids. She never knew where the money came from – I didn’t want her to – but she cried with joy and that was the greatest feeling in the world – much better than writing any check to TWI so God would spit in my direction.
I also pay for some of the cars behind me when I go through the toll booth – that’s probably one of my favorite things to do… I’ll give the attendant $10 and tell her/him to go buy themselves a coke and a snack & use the rest of the money to pay for the cars behind me.
TWI always quoted that verse about “doing good unto all men but especially to the household” but they never did good unto all men – it was ONLY to the household and they weren’t even very good at that.
The verse that comes to mind regarding TWI is in James – they just tell people to go be warmed with a few Bible verses – no heart, no compassion, no mercy, no love.
Jam 2:13-17
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
i'll tell you what i think abundant shareing is all about.
when i was a tc eons ago i had an on the job accident and was not able to work for a while. it took a few months for workers comp to kick in and because i did abuntly share to the farm in the corn field i didn't have much of a nest egg to fall back on,but i did have a house and a wife and to great kids to take care of
when things got tough the wonderful people in our twig stepped forward
one to pay the phone bill'another to pay the lights,many brought food,
one couple even took our family to a water park for a day.
was it humbling yes but imo this was abundant shareing.
and i have and still do try to help folks out who are haveing a hard time and i know most of us here do
to me that is being a christian
ps i still thank god for those people and pray for them and i haven't seen many of them for over 20 years
Oh Gosh...this was THE most terrifying part of leaving twi. My spouse REFUSED to tithe.
I cried, I begged, I whined, to no avail. I was still constrained be the *he was the head of the household* teachings and that I couldn`t argue with his decisions....
I was TERRIFIED daily, I waited for Satan to kill one of the children, every little bump in the road Inumbly accepted as our just due for not tithing.
I was sick with dread ...assuming that satan had been allowed to run rampant in our lives as we had been taught .... I thought in leaving twi, tithing would be our ace in the hole to keep the horrible consequences of no longer being in the household.....
I just knew that it would be the *Job* story all over again... in the end mark would be broken and alone the kids and I all destroyed in one manner or another....and he would probably come to his senses....he would probably , like job, return to God and be blessed with a new family and even greater ritches.....too bad about the first one eh?
Imagine my surprise when as the weeks and months passed, not only did we NOT die....our numbers began to increase (significantly) our prosperity increased....our lives blessed time and again.....
It was a long time before the dread in my heart melted though and that I could beging to enjoy the generocity of God`s abundance.
Without all the fanciful life-threatening dramatics of the unspeakable fears and unbearable horrors of not tithing, my experience was about the same; although it took me only about 2 weeks to get over it.
Most religious organizations teach tithing in one form or another. The church we attended for a while after leaving TWI taught it, but didn't INSIST on it. When they were building a new sanctuary, the pastor encouraged people to give to the building fund amounts that were "over and above" their tithe. That sent a chill down my spine, but I hadn't been out of TWI all that long at the time. Now I realize that churches/synagogues/mosques etc., are BUSINESSES, and businesses need money to keep running.
My parents, who never cared for TWI but didn't object to my participation, didn't object to the tithe teaching. I recall my mom saying something like "if they're providing a service you enjoy, if you're getting something out of it, then you should give them something in return." It seemed to make good sense to me.
Whether or not the lack of tithing has made life better or worse for us...
I don't think it has. We still give to others in many way - more ways than just throwing money at them.
Towards the end of my time at TWI, tithing - actually "abundant sharing" became an obligation, not a blessing. The giving was not done with a cheerful heart, but with a touch of fear -- fear of rejection and /or chastisement by leadership. Now how is THAT going to "bless" anyone?
So, we don't write a check to anyone anymore, and really, nothing has changed - except the same thing others have said... I have more money to give wherever I choose to give, without obligation, or as the bible says "not grudgingly or of necessity". That's what ABS in TWI became - a huge, frustrating burden.
I don't tithe, and I haven't seen any difference in my life either way. God is still the same God for me when I did tithe (and then some). I didn't see any difference when I gave over the tithe also.
I give to any good causes such as March of Dimes and Muscular Dystrophy type. I also give to organizations which help protect animals like haltaz.org.
I am much happier in my giving. God loves a cheerful giver right?
In general, I think giving is a worthwhile way to live. I share what I can when I decide to do it. Behind that is a couple things - recognizing God for the good in my life and also recognizing that helping others is a good way to live.
I consider it an aspiration to do so, not a compulsion. Living that way is me, at my best.
Frankly I don't really think about it or worry about it in some superstitious way, like "there! I tithed 10.3 per cent this month so everything gonna be awright!" or "OHNO! I'm down by 2.7 per cent. Look out!!!" I don't think of it in terms of amounts or percentages. Life is great. Across the board, better than ever. If experience is any indicator, much better by comparison to Wayfers who float their boats by religiously telling everyone else to tithe 15 per cent. Oh, and doing so themselves, of course. Of course. No excuses, right?
It's not hard to see that you can tithe and everything ain't gonna be awright if other things in your life get out of whack. I never saw a consistent change in the way things worked out in my life's affairs for better or worse as a result. I don't believe that's what it's all about.
Once I got rid of the fear that comes from compulsory giving and stopped looking over my shoulder for blessings for curses based on what I'd given nothing really changed except my blood pressure. I gave it a lot of thought and what we do now is based on our faith and beliefs. It's a part of living well, regardless of the cash-flow. A giving heart won't be deterred by lack of funds. Funds aren't the only thing to be given. If the teaching's based on cash, they're talking trash IMO.
I was in my late 30's when I first got involved. My habits formed earlier from our chuch pastor. He always said;"save 10%, give 10% and spend the rest with thanksgiving". Whenever I earned money that was more or less what I did.
Once I left twi I gave what I wanted when and where I wanted! Sometimes we'd have a student who's entire belongings were burned away in a house fire. (I taught in an inner city poverty riddled city). Sometimes I'd write a check for several hundred dollars. Sometimes I'd get a gift certificate to a place kids like...and let them pick what they wanted or needed to replace. I found greater pleasure in lump-sum giving than a little here and there. It was just so gratifying to me to know that I really could substantially help somebody that way.
Now that I'm not working, I give what I can when I can. Sometimes giving money doesn't cut it. If I have something that will meet a need, that need gets met. But I learned that lifestyle long before twi interrupted the rest of my life.
Then pray do tell where all the LDS tithes go , Mo ?
I know the answer to this question without being LDS.
They take care of one another. They have their own form of assistance for those who are ill, injured, unemployed, underemployed, etc.
They also take care of the communities in which they live/worship. Those guys in suits on bicycles? They'll do anything you need done...and will make sure they job is finished...even if you don't want to hear a word they're saying.
There are 3 denominations that are known for answering the call of Christ when it comes to giving and taking care of folks: LDS, Catholics and United Methodists. When I was in twi, I hated these churches for being so 'off'. Sigh.
TWI always quoted that verse about “doing good unto all men but especially to the household” but they never did good unto all men – it was ONLY to the household and they weren’t even very good at that.
The verse that comes to mind regarding TWI is in James – they just tell people to go be warmed with a few Bible verses – no heart, no compassion, no mercy, no love.
Loved your post here Belle. The relationship you’ve built with Grandpa Bert & Gramma Mary is precious. What a blessing for each of you!
We noticed a BIG difference not giving our 15% - 25% to TWI Now we’re able to give where we see needs, and REALLY help people... like some other posters have mentioned here.
TWI's teaching is based on a lie and fueled by fear... "God won't even spit in your direction"... what a crock!
Perhaps now it's worded a bit different...
TWI taught:
no heart, no compassion, no mercy, no love.
If my neighbor is hungry, I should speak the word to him, so he can believe God himself to get some food...
If anyone has a need, I should speak the word...so they can believe God themselves to meet their need. All without even reaching out a finger to assist with the physical need. Why not do BOTH?!?!?!?!
We have seen how the LDS church takes care of their people...SIMPLY AMAZING!!!
Speaking of LDS - I worked for a while in California with a woman whose family was mormon. Her husband was one of the air traffic controllers that was fired by Raegan. She showed me the basement of their home and there was a one year supply of food and essentials stored there. She explained that this was part of their religion to prepare for the "lean" times and it brought a lot of peace to her to know they had all this. I was quite impressed. It wasn't like they were stockpiling for some communist take over or over throw of the government or Y2K or anything. There needs were met until her hubby could find another job. They had like 3 kids or something. Again, I was impressed in their planning ahead.
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notinKansasanymore
I don't tithe, but we give in other ways. Not usually to churches, but usually to the needy. The way never really gave to the needy. I gave the way so much money over the years that I'm sure it'll take a long time for me to catch up on what I should have given to the needy!
However, to answer the second part of your question, life got better for me when I stopped tithing.
I do still believe that a person who doesn't give anything is like the Dead Sea. I just don't let anybody put legalism on me. Christ fulfilled the law, and that includes any percent of any kind. Fulfilled means fulfilled. It's not law. It's supposed to come from our hearts, not our calculators, else it's religious instead of spiritual. Anything else is private interpretation.
Wierwille always jumped on other people for privately interpreting the Bible, but he never seemed to mind much doing it himself, whether about tithing, abortion, or sex outside of marriage.
Go figure.
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markomalley
You know, I stopped tithing a long time ago. It didn't seem to make a difference one way or the other.
Also, I hope you know that TWI is hardly the only group that teaches tithing.
Anyway, for the past many years, I've had the following philosophy about giving: I give what I can afford to give without causing a negative impact on my family. I try to be a little conservative with my spending (e.g., I could afford a better computer, but my computer is a 5 year old Pentium 3 laptop...it still works for what I need of it, so why waste money on a new 'puter? -- I'll get a new one when I can't run my apps on it). That conservatism makes it so that there is still money available at the end of the pay period.
It has seemed to work for me.
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dmiller
I have always given, and continue to do so.
Sometimes to a church, but more often than not ------
To an individual who needs help.
To me ---it makes more sense to give directly to those in need.
ABS (twi style) SUX -- (and you can quote me on that!)
If I've got it, and don't need it, and someone else does -- it's theirs.
And my life has not been worse, because I don't give 10% to twi, or *the church*.
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Galen
I still tithe.
Just as I was taught as a young lad in my hometown Baptist church.
This past summer, the local Baptist church in near by Bangor did a series on tithing. Their teachings did not stop at 10 % either.
That is why we are leaning more towards the Mennonites now.
:)
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Jim
Better. I had over 15% more money than when I did.
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George Aar
Sorry, I noticed ZERO difference in my life, tithing or not.
Well, I shouldn't say zero, I had more money in my pocket when I gave up the foolish practice.
But I somehow doubt that that was the result of any profound spiritual principle I was "operating"...
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rvrdiver
This is a topic that stumped me for a VERY long time.....TWI taught about tithing pretty much from the jest of Malachi and that we had basically better tithe "or else". A doctrine they had thrown in was that the 10% tithe caused a *standing believing believer in the household* to get blessed in the physical catagory whereas tithing above the 10% caused a *standing believing believer in the household* to get blessed back in the spiritual catagory. (So, this means that God is a respecter of givers???)
Well, it doesn't say anywhere in the Church Epistles that anyone is SUPPOSE to tithe, but rather - God loves a cheerful giver and to work with your hands the thing which is good so that you have to give.
....so that you have to give. Now tell me folks out there in cyber-land.......what if a believer can't afford to give 10%? Are they now in debt because they're giving more than they can afford?
TWI and the Word are two different things when it comes to tithe.
Yes I tithe when I can afford to.
Is my life better for it? Yes. Because I understand why I'm doing something so simple....not half-hazardly.
God bless!
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templelady
I tithe and I find I have much more of my needs met and plenty of money
When I "tithed" in TWI it just made me short of money. -- the difference , the motivation on my part and what I was tithing to
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topoftheworld
I tithed as faithfully as I could on minimum wage jobs, and truthfully, I never saw any results.
After I left, I knew that it was important to just do something, so I gave of my time, heart, and money to whatever the need was at the time.
I have seen some amazing blessings come from that, simply because I am giving as the need arises ( or even when it doesn't) with a cheerful heart.
Guess I don't do well operating under a law. I do much better just giving from my heart.
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allan w.
The same, however, beat this...Since leaving in 1995 I have had basically 3 jobs. ALL turned out to be 40 hr week pay for an average of 15 hours work put in PLUS a company car.
For minimal effort I advanced the companies turnover substantially and in one case quite substantially.
Also I firmly believe that a.b.s. (which I still do) was directly/indirectly involved in 'revelation' received on a cupla occasions that saved at least two of our childrens lives.
I guess what I'm saying is don't just look at the 'bottom line'.
And if I may refer anyone interested to www.cffm.org, then click on audio and listen to Kevin Gigous' "overflowing witness", Wayne Clapps "consider your ways", and his latest, " the two annointings". Also Bob Darnells last one ( can't remember title ). Some new stuff I hadn't heard even after 9 years in the way.
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outofdafog
A friend of mine stopped in my office the other day to tell me that his wife had left him over the weekend and went out of state. She took the car and every bit of the money in the bank except $10.00. When she left she told him that she would be back in about an hour..........but she was in Oklahoma by the following day.
He was stunned and in shock. I knew that somehow I should help him. Now TWI would have taught that in order to overcome this he should take the class and tithe from that $10.00. Instead, I got a couple of other folks together and we combined our different resources to provide him with some cash and food and plans to be able to get some money together in the near future.
I just knew in my heart that this was the right thing to do with any abundance that I might have in my life. Everyone lovingly chipped in and his heart became more at peace as the week went by. To me this is tithing and sharing of abundance. This would have been my idea of a self sustaining fellowship also, what fellowship was like before all the money that was shared was directed to be funneled back to HQ. I am not going to help buy any preachers armani suits, or fancy houses and cars anymore. I just did what I felt God would want me to do in this situation, not looking for any reward, just helping a fellow human being who was in need at the time. This situation if told to leadership in the 90's would have brought on a verbal assault on how he would need to take the class blah blah blah blah.
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rascal
Oh Gosh...this was THE most terrifying part of leaving twi. My spouse REFUSED to tithe.
I cried, I begged, I whined, to no avail. I was still constrained be the *he was the head of the household* teachings and that I couldn`t argue with his decisions....
I was TERRIFIED daily, I waited for Satan to kill one of the children, every little bump in the road Inumbly accepted as our just due for not tithing.
I was sick with dread ...assuming that satan had been allowed to run rampant in our lives as we had been taught .... I thought in leaving twi, tithing would be our ace in the hole to keep the horrible consequences of no longer being in the household.....
I just knew that it would be the *Job* story all over again... in the end mark would be broken and alone the kids and I all destroyed in one manner or another....and he would probably come to his senses....he would probably , like job, return to God and be blessed with a new family and even greater ritches.....too bad about the first one eh?
Imagine my surprise when as the weeks and months passed, not only did we NOT die....our numbers began to increase (significantly) our prosperity increased....our lives blessed time and again.....
It was a long time before the dread in my heart melted though and that I could beging to enjoy the generocity of God`s abundance.
In Marks behalf, i did find out in later years about families he had supported when they were in bad need...individuals that needed a helping hand...he was very generous....it just wasn`t a structured tithe like we were told God required.
Me, I try to take care of the animals and strays...
I would have to say that my life was significantly better without the tithe....but being free to give where I saw need...and that isn`t always money.
Some people and I know have made it our business to help an elderly neighbor operate her farm after she nearly died last year stuck in the freezing mud while trying to feed her horses.
One of us carries her shopping, some of us haul hay for her from the loft and place it within easy reach for her....sometimes we haul her to the dr.
We don`t even know each other...but feel that as a group we are doing God`s will, in keeping our neighbor out of a nursing home.
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Belle
AMEN!!!
I grew up with extremely generous parents. We were always having college kids over for home-cooked meals – living in our guest bedroom because they couldn’t afford to pay rent – giving them money - going to mow an elderly person’s lawn – fixing baskets of food for families in need ….. It was just a part of life and we enjoyed every minute of it – they also gave to the church, but to other organizations, groups, individuals also… As kids we had to tithe off any money we received.
In TWI those folks were not “worthy” of my time because they were wallowing in sin and what they needed was “the word”. If they didn’t want “the word” then they didn’t deserve anything from me.
Now, I can give in any way, shape or form that I choose and that delights my soul to no end! I love to give where there is a true need or where it will be truly appreciated. It’s from the heart and it’s with love and that makes all the difference.
I have an elderly couple in my neighborhood and we’ve adopted each other. I even call them Grandpa Bert and Gramma Mary. I take care of their dogs when they go out of town; I move heavy things for them; I fix Bert dinner when Mary’s out of town….they check on Vixen during the day for me; Mary weeds my garden and sweeps my driveway and sidewalk. Whoever is out first after the garbage men come by, we put the other’s garbage can up against the garage.
I’ve put a substantial amount of money in a plain envelope and left it on the desk of a co-worker who was having major dental work done and couldn’t afford to do that and buy Christmas presents for her kids. She never knew where the money came from – I didn’t want her to – but she cried with joy and that was the greatest feeling in the world – much better than writing any check to TWI so God would spit in my direction.
I also pay for some of the cars behind me when I go through the toll booth – that’s probably one of my favorite things to do… I’ll give the attendant $10 and tell her/him to go buy themselves a coke and a snack & use the rest of the money to pay for the cars behind me.
TWI always quoted that verse about “doing good unto all men but especially to the household” but they never did good unto all men – it was ONLY to the household and they weren’t even very good at that.
The verse that comes to mind regarding TWI is in James – they just tell people to go be warmed with a few Bible verses – no heart, no compassion, no mercy, no love.
Jam 2:13-17
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
i'll tell you what i think abundant shareing is all about.
when i was a tc eons ago i had an on the job accident and was not able to work for a while. it took a few months for workers comp to kick in and because i did abuntly share to the farm in the corn field i didn't have much of a nest egg to fall back on,but i did have a house and a wife and to great kids to take care of
when things got tough the wonderful people in our twig stepped forward
one to pay the phone bill'another to pay the lights,many brought food,
one couple even took our family to a water park for a day.
was it humbling yes but imo this was abundant shareing.
and i have and still do try to help folks out who are haveing a hard time and i know most of us here do
to me that is being a christian
ps i still thank god for those people and pray for them and i haven't seen many of them for over 20 years
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oldiesman
Without all the fanciful life-threatening dramatics of the unspeakable fears and unbearable horrors of not tithing, my experience was about the same; although it took me only about 2 weeks to get over it.
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Hope R.
Most religious organizations teach tithing in one form or another. The church we attended for a while after leaving TWI taught it, but didn't INSIST on it. When they were building a new sanctuary, the pastor encouraged people to give to the building fund amounts that were "over and above" their tithe. That sent a chill down my spine, but I hadn't been out of TWI all that long at the time. Now I realize that churches/synagogues/mosques etc., are BUSINESSES, and businesses need money to keep running.
My parents, who never cared for TWI but didn't object to my participation, didn't object to the tithe teaching. I recall my mom saying something like "if they're providing a service you enjoy, if you're getting something out of it, then you should give them something in return." It seemed to make good sense to me.
Whether or not the lack of tithing has made life better or worse for us...
I don't think it has. We still give to others in many way - more ways than just throwing money at them.
Towards the end of my time at TWI, tithing - actually "abundant sharing" became an obligation, not a blessing. The giving was not done with a cheerful heart, but with a touch of fear -- fear of rejection and /or chastisement by leadership. Now how is THAT going to "bless" anyone?
So, we don't write a check to anyone anymore, and really, nothing has changed - except the same thing others have said... I have more money to give wherever I choose to give, without obligation, or as the bible says "not grudgingly or of necessity". That's what ABS in TWI became - a huge, frustrating burden.
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templelady
Amen, that's why i go to a church were the "ministers" work for their living at private sector jobs
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allan w.
Then pray do tell where all the LDS tithes go , Mo ?
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Nottawayfer
I don't tithe, and I haven't seen any difference in my life either way. God is still the same God for me when I did tithe (and then some). I didn't see any difference when I gave over the tithe also.
I give to any good causes such as March of Dimes and Muscular Dystrophy type. I also give to organizations which help protect animals like haltaz.org.
I am much happier in my giving. God loves a cheerful giver right?
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socks
In general, I think giving is a worthwhile way to live. I share what I can when I decide to do it. Behind that is a couple things - recognizing God for the good in my life and also recognizing that helping others is a good way to live.
I consider it an aspiration to do so, not a compulsion. Living that way is me, at my best.
Frankly I don't really think about it or worry about it in some superstitious way, like "there! I tithed 10.3 per cent this month so everything gonna be awright!" or "OHNO! I'm down by 2.7 per cent. Look out!!!" I don't think of it in terms of amounts or percentages. Life is great. Across the board, better than ever. If experience is any indicator, much better by comparison to Wayfers who float their boats by religiously telling everyone else to tithe 15 per cent. Oh, and doing so themselves, of course. Of course. No excuses, right?
It's not hard to see that you can tithe and everything ain't gonna be awright if other things in your life get out of whack. I never saw a consistent change in the way things worked out in my life's affairs for better or worse as a result. I don't believe that's what it's all about.
Once I got rid of the fear that comes from compulsory giving and stopped looking over my shoulder for blessings for curses based on what I'd given nothing really changed except my blood pressure. I gave it a lot of thought and what we do now is based on our faith and beliefs. It's a part of living well, regardless of the cash-flow. A giving heart won't be deterred by lack of funds. Funds aren't the only thing to be given. If the teaching's based on cash, they're talking trash IMO.
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krys
I was in my late 30's when I first got involved. My habits formed earlier from our chuch pastor. He always said;"save 10%, give 10% and spend the rest with thanksgiving". Whenever I earned money that was more or less what I did.
Once I left twi I gave what I wanted when and where I wanted! Sometimes we'd have a student who's entire belongings were burned away in a house fire. (I taught in an inner city poverty riddled city). Sometimes I'd write a check for several hundred dollars. Sometimes I'd get a gift certificate to a place kids like...and let them pick what they wanted or needed to replace. I found greater pleasure in lump-sum giving than a little here and there. It was just so gratifying to me to know that I really could substantially help somebody that way.
Now that I'm not working, I give what I can when I can. Sometimes giving money doesn't cut it. If I have something that will meet a need, that need gets met. But I learned that lifestyle long before twi interrupted the rest of my life.
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CoolWaters
I know the answer to this question without being LDS.
They take care of one another. They have their own form of assistance for those who are ill, injured, unemployed, underemployed, etc.
They also take care of the communities in which they live/worship. Those guys in suits on bicycles? They'll do anything you need done...and will make sure they job is finished...even if you don't want to hear a word they're saying.
There are 3 denominations that are known for answering the call of Christ when it comes to giving and taking care of folks: LDS, Catholics and United Methodists. When I was in twi, I hated these churches for being so 'off'. Sigh.
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SafariVista
Loved your post here Belle. The relationship you’ve built with Grandpa Bert & Gramma Mary is precious. What a blessing for each of you!
We noticed a BIG difference not giving our 15% - 25% to TWI
Now we’re able to give where we see needs, and REALLY help people... like some other posters have mentioned here.
TWI's teaching is based on a lie and fueled by fear... "God won't even spit in your direction"... what a crock!
Perhaps now it's worded a bit different...
TWI taught:
If my neighbor is hungry, I should speak the word to him, so he can believe God himself to get some food...
If anyone has a need, I should speak the word...so they can believe God themselves to meet their need. All without even reaching out a finger to assist with the physical need. Why not do BOTH?!?!?!?!
We have seen how the LDS church takes care of their people...SIMPLY AMAZING!!!
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outofdafog
Speaking of LDS - I worked for a while in California with a woman whose family was mormon. Her husband was one of the air traffic controllers that was fired by Raegan. She showed me the basement of their home and there was a one year supply of food and essentials stored there. She explained that this was part of their religion to prepare for the "lean" times and it brought a lot of peace to her to know they had all this. I was quite impressed. It wasn't like they were stockpiling for some communist take over or over throw of the government or Y2K or anything. There needs were met until her hubby could find another job. They had like 3 kids or something. Again, I was impressed in their planning ahead.
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