The group that kicked me out after removing my wife and child from my life, just before the elder that I worked for fired me has tried real hard to cover their tracks.
I say that the leader spit on people twice that I know of.
I say he said the words "If people only knew what I did in the ministry I'd be in prison" three times in the weeks preceding my expungment, and he said it before the whole church.
I say that about two months after 9-11 he said that we would be attacked by the locals or the government and if we wanted to stand with him on God's Word we'd better be prepared to die.
Two weeks before he kicked me out he went into hiding, only carefully groomed people knew where he was at any given time, and they were taught not to let on if they knew or did not know.
One week before he kicked me out he gave a completely bogus teaching that supposedly proved that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews.
EVERY TIME I'VE RELATED EVENTS, I'VE BEEN AWARE THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO COME AFTER ME IF THEY COULD.
In the few years since this all happened I've shared several events with the local folks that weren't slander, I really felt that the locals needed to know exactly what was going on behind that innocent looking and very deliberate public face.
I BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE COME AFTER ME IF ANY OF THE ABUSIVE, TWISTED BEHAVIOR I REPORTED WASN'T EXACTLY RIGHT.
I suspect they've said thing behind my back too because that's how they operated inside the church.
The methods they used were bullying, backbiting, isolation from others by whatever lie or half truth worked, and threats of loosing family. Those are just a few of their actions.
To a biblical workman I can point out numerous dishonesties on their part, deliberate lies that people were bullied to believing.
Once I was considered a bad person for telling a friend of mine that I thought he made a good decision to not give his retarded child up for adoption. The problem was that the leader tried to get my friend to give up his son. Of course I was further isolated and marginalised for that. I've never seen my friend since.
My opinion of that leader is that in spite of his carefully groomed public apearance ,and manner thats extremely convincing is that he's a dishonest glory hound that will destroy anyone he can if it advances his influence.
I don't believe honesty or integrity is part of his character. I believe he's driven by selfish ambition.
He can make himself seem like a M.O.G. and be very convincing though, so he's extremely dangerous.
IT'S SEEMS LIKE I'VE DEALT WITH YOUR KIND BEFORE POND, WHITE DOVE, AND BUMPY. That opinion I hold based on years of dealing with people whose twisted "Godly, so called" agenda made it all to easy to set aside decency, gentleness, and compassion.
Frankly, they are a lot better at it than the three of you though. You're actually a little boring in comparison.
I've met people that really are like you make rascal and potato out to be, and I'm real darn sure that you're the ones with the problem, not them.
When I post here about things I experienced in fellow laborers, I am not usually posting about things that happened only to me.
There were usually 50 other people in the room or, if it happened in our "house", there were usually at least 6 people present.
Some of them post here.
Some of them know someone who posts here or are known by someone who posts here.
Some of them lurk here. Some have never heard of GSC.
And, of course, there are some who have left this world behind.
Why on earth would I want to fabricate something that could be refuted by 50 (give or take) other people who were there?
If my memory of these events is incorrect, I'm open to correction.
This same concept applies to people who were in the corps, except there were many more than 50 who shared common events.
For goodness sake!
There were 50 other people in the room the time we were called out in the middle of the night to be told what total failures we had been.
There were 50 other people present when we were told the whole ministry might go down the tubes because we, representing the birthplace of the ministry, had failed.
Just how many "eyewitnesses" does one really need?
When I post here about things I experienced in fellow laborers, I am not usually posting about things that happened only to me.
There were usually 50 other people in the room or, if it happened in our "house", there were usually at least 6 people present.
Some of them post here.
Some of them know someone who posts here or are known by someone who posts here.
Some of them lurk here. Some have never heard of GSC.
And, of course, there are some who have left this world behind.
Why on earth would I want to fabricate something that could be refuted by 50 (give or take) other people who were there?
If my memory of these events is incorrect, I'm open to correction.
This same concept applies to people who were in the corps, except there were many more than 50 who shared common events.
For goodness sake!
There were 50 other people in the room the time we were called out in the middle of the night to be told what total failures we had been.
There were 50 other people present when we were told the whole ministry might go down the tubes because we, representing the birthplace of the ministry, had failed.
Just how many "eyewitnesses" does one really need?
I wish i knew how to cut part of your post and address but i do not know how so I refer to the sentence whrere you say Why on earth would I want to frabricate something that can be refuted by 50 or so.....
maybe you wouldnt but some people would ? why ? many reasons waysider hate is always a motive that generates words with out integrity imo.
but that isnt the part that bother me or the type of accounts that I think discredit GS.
it is statesment: like the leaders in twi raped woman. a very sensational statement yet where are the fifty people, or the arrest records ? what ya got is a poster on the internet that says it is so so it most be truth. and it gets heated because some know one another and play on this forum and believe in one another and so it is assumed personal. it isnt .
lcm was never charged with a crime nor was vpw yet by the standard here they have been convicted .
ok for the people here in the mix believing every word yall say to one another.
in the other world, the world without cult co-authorship and kin folk on-line it really just comes out as gossip and slander. ESP. since the facts of LCM case can be viewed for what it is in truth by all!
At the end of the day GS power players will win one another over and discredit any good this entire web site has done really. that is why I feel so strongly about this issue.
but not enough to have the type of personalities on this board attack me for it , and dare i say I really doubt Im alone on this. Waysider you told me in another post that GS helped you put the pieces of a puzzle together about facts you didnt know concerning twi.
that information is still here and available.
I would like to see that happen for other folks but Im afraid this site is losing alot of integrity by "frabricating' as you call it.
people lie waysider people from twi lied plenty, and anyone coming here is going to see more of the same finger pointing without any base of proof and just dismisss it as much of the same.
and some of the stuff on this site is helpful and will also be discounted as the same as a ranting woman and a rather persistant bird.
IT'S SEEMS LIKE I'VE DEALT WITH YOUR KIND BEFORE POND, WHITE DOVE, AND BUMPY. That opinion I hold based on years of dealing with people whose twisted "Godly, so called" agenda made it all to easy to set aside decency, gentleness, and compassion.
Frankly, they are a lot better at it than the three of you though. You're actually a little boring in comparison.
I dunno.. if I was a new poster at this site, I'd probably think twice before telling my story to be castigated by accusations of falsehood, repeated demands for court documents supporting my claim, demands for EVIDENCE.. rejection of confirming eyewitness testimony..
"God save da Mog"..
So what's the tactic here.. hmm.
Maybe it's to discredit the claims by "forcing" the one making the claim to appear practically insane, desperately trying to convince the supposed ill informed denier that the events indeed happened?
Honestly.. that's probably it.. one way to "deal" with offenses I suppose. The "fight" here isn't technically with the one denying the claim. It's with the corrupt organization that allowed it to happen, or was directly involved in the offense involved. Or those in the organization who directly caused the harm.
But I think some people willingly throw themselves in front of the steam roller here.. why? I dunno.. maybe to take the heat off of their precious mog, mogette, or memory of the same..
perhaps to them, it's "just" an internet site.. we're not *people*.. we're *just* screen names..
I've been fairly honest about my twi experience. And why I'm here..
Interesting I've never gotten a reply from the other side "what's in it for YOU"..
"oh, it's not about *me*. I just don't wanna see somebody ELSE lynched with false accusations"
That's not what I asked.. not "what's in it for OTHER PEOPLE"..
What's in it for YOU, personally?
See.. it's not your fight. That is, unless you happen to be the vicster, rosie, the loyster, the donster.. "he who never mixes his bread and vegetables".. or one of their close cronies.. one who committed offense to God's people..
I mean.. why in the world would one dress one's self up as an effigy of vic, or loy.. or someone equally as nasty and subverted.. and then complain when the effigy gets beat with sticks here?
Where is the logic in this?
try to stuff all that dirt back under the carpet again..
"come back to da VERD"..
"tow the line like a good little believer.."
It's like.. dressing up like a chicken at a crocodile convention..
just an observation.. either it's pure ignorance, or it has some kinda purpose or agenda..
who knows.. maybe it's innocent. Maybe they LIKE being a chicken..
I dunno.. I dressed up as the Squirrel and showed up at a squirrel haters internet forum once. I just wanted to see if they had a sense of humor..
I dunno.. it's not "personal".. I'm just trying to understand here.
Maybe..
maybe they are masochistic or something.. I dunno.
I'm not exactly masochistic.. I exited the squirrel haters club fairly quickly and graciously.. "sorry you don't have a sense of humor here.." and I just LEFT.
I've been fairly honest about my twi experience. And why I'm here..
Interesting I've never gotten a reply from the other side "what's in it for YOU"..
"oh, it's not about *me*. I just don't wanna see somebody ELSE lynched with false accusations"
That's not what I asked.. not "what's in it for OTHER PEOPLE"..
What's in it for YOU, personally?
See.. it's not your fight. That is, unless you happen to be the vicster, rosie, the loyster, the donster.. "he who never mixes his bread and vegetables".. or one of their close cronies.. one who committed offense to God's people..
why put yourself in their place?
Not everyone is concerned about whats in in for me............ Some of us learned to consider whats in it for others.
and some of us have abandoned that fallacious form of reasoning... knowing FULL WELL that we can't love someone else, until we REALLY learn to love ourselves, and not limited to vic's, loy's, or twi's definition..
Your experiance does not qualify if an event is alleged or not If someone is robbed it is that persons experiance ,but the accused is non the less refered to as alleged until the verification.. Because they had an experiance does not make the person anything less than alleged........ proof makes them guilty, at that point they are not alleged any longer.
That is rediculous....YOU are not the one who decides what qualifies here as to what is pertinent or relevant....My experiences are mine to relate here, and the contribution is welcomed as long as it is done politely.
Please, relate your personal experiences from your limited experience and exposure in twi. Allow the rest of us the same courtesy to relate our experiences as wow`s or corpes, or victims of abuse.
That is rediculous....YOU are not the one who decides what qualifies here as to what is pertinent or relevant....My experiences are mine to relate here, and the contribution is welcomed as long as it is done politely.
Please, relate your personal experiences from your limited experience and exposure in twi. Allow the rest of us the same courtesy to relate our experiences as wow`s or corpes, or victims of abuse.
Never said I decide only that by definition of the word that is what it is ,no where in the definition of alleged does it say that anyone's experience determines if it is alleged or not , you want to ignore the English language and make up your own definitions go ahead, I'll note that. I'll be answering the rest of your post on another thread later for you and Mr Sky
I personally spent well over twenty years in the organization, working a second rate job, not continuing education.. to be "available" to supposedly move the word..
to be able to have the free time to help run classes.. meetings..
be "free" to go to meetings..
I had a night job once.. real possibility of advancement, education..
you'd think.. "well, thank GOD He opened doors for ham like this.."
naw.. "grrr.. and why CAN'T you come to twig? To classes? etc.. etc.."
What's ironic.. we fought to have just a TINY bit of individuality in this life.. and how easily some of us were convinced to just throw it away..
ninety nine percent of this life is about other people. People we love, people we owe, people we pay..
nobody gets the one percent that's left from me, at least today..
Dove, you just weren`t there plain and simple. It is pretty silly to think that you understand the different teachings, the different requirements, the different level of commitment required. It was a different world than the one you lived in and enjoyed :(
To call folks into question because their experiences and impressions do not mirror your own is pretty unrealistic
You are in no position to deny anybody elses experiences, or to pass judgement.
Dove, you just weren`t there plain and simple. It is pretty silly to think that you understand the different teachings, the different requirements, the different level of commitment required. It was a different world than the one you lived in and enjoyed :(
So you are a mindreader you know about my world? Please ........ you don't ,but you will soon enough.
To call folks into question because their experiences and impressions do not mirror your own is pretty unrealistic
You are in no position to deny anybody elses experiences, or to pass judgement.
Again I state....... I never called anyone experiance into question only that there experiances do not make truth until proven until then they are alledged. That's the word sorry if it does not fit with your agenda.....
It seems silly to have to break it down, but some people need this from time to time.
This is NOT a court of law.
The rules for DISCUSSIONS- the customs, really- are what are used here.
When people discuss, when people have conversations, they don't go around saying
"I allege this happened yesterday..". They just tell their story.
If someone calls them into question, THEN there's allegations.
A professional made a claim once about something someone said at a specific place
at a specific time. I commented later: "I was there at that moment and they didn't
say that." A discussion followed, and, as it turned out, I was there exactly 24 hours
LATER and missed the time and place that it was said. Since I was not there after all,
I could not speak to what others saw and did. (So I didn't try.)
Actually, it sounded like something they WOULD say, so my comment was only on the
specifics.
And this story had no connection to twi, the GSC, or anything related to it.
When people just talk, they don't have to pretend they're in court, make a major presentation,
or say "alleged" every 2nd sentence or something.
When was the last time you heard
"Sorry I'm late- I'm alleging there was a traffic jam on the highway?"
When accusing someone of a crime it is different than a traffic incident WW a crime as Pond said is a serious charge, that requires clear speaking and proper wording.
No agenda, just want to be allowed to speak of my experiences without you following behind calling me a liar.
Again I'd like to see proof of that ,again you misrepresent me despite numerous times I have address yor claim.
Now I have accused you of just making S**t up things just like this for instance, but then the lack of proof of your claim seems to point out that.
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washn'wear
If people settle out of court and no records are filed in court dockets....what happens about the whole alleged thing?
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potato
HEY EVERYONE!!!
WD says we have to use proper english! should we hold him to the same standard, I wonder?
WD, believe me if I had a microscope on what people say, I'd have no life other than monitoring this site. what a waste of time.
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JeffSjo
The group that kicked me out after removing my wife and child from my life, just before the elder that I worked for fired me has tried real hard to cover their tracks.
I say that the leader spit on people twice that I know of.
I say he said the words "If people only knew what I did in the ministry I'd be in prison" three times in the weeks preceding my expungment, and he said it before the whole church.
I say that about two months after 9-11 he said that we would be attacked by the locals or the government and if we wanted to stand with him on God's Word we'd better be prepared to die.
Two weeks before he kicked me out he went into hiding, only carefully groomed people knew where he was at any given time, and they were taught not to let on if they knew or did not know.
One week before he kicked me out he gave a completely bogus teaching that supposedly proved that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews.
EVERY TIME I'VE RELATED EVENTS, I'VE BEEN AWARE THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO COME AFTER ME IF THEY COULD.
In the few years since this all happened I've shared several events with the local folks that weren't slander, I really felt that the locals needed to know exactly what was going on behind that innocent looking and very deliberate public face.
I BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE COME AFTER ME IF ANY OF THE ABUSIVE, TWISTED BEHAVIOR I REPORTED WASN'T EXACTLY RIGHT.
I suspect they've said thing behind my back too because that's how they operated inside the church.
The methods they used were bullying, backbiting, isolation from others by whatever lie or half truth worked, and threats of loosing family. Those are just a few of their actions.
To a biblical workman I can point out numerous dishonesties on their part, deliberate lies that people were bullied to believing.
Once I was considered a bad person for telling a friend of mine that I thought he made a good decision to not give his retarded child up for adoption. The problem was that the leader tried to get my friend to give up his son. Of course I was further isolated and marginalised for that. I've never seen my friend since.
My opinion of that leader is that in spite of his carefully groomed public apearance ,and manner thats extremely convincing is that he's a dishonest glory hound that will destroy anyone he can if it advances his influence.
I don't believe honesty or integrity is part of his character. I believe he's driven by selfish ambition.
He can make himself seem like a M.O.G. and be very convincing though, so he's extremely dangerous.
IT'S SEEMS LIKE I'VE DEALT WITH YOUR KIND BEFORE POND, WHITE DOVE, AND BUMPY. That opinion I hold based on years of dealing with people whose twisted "Godly, so called" agenda made it all to easy to set aside decency, gentleness, and compassion.
Frankly, they are a lot better at it than the three of you though. You're actually a little boring in comparison.
I've met people that really are like you make rascal and potato out to be, and I'm real darn sure that you're the ones with the problem, not them.
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cman
Sorry, whitedove, you are not the authority on integrity of other people.
Just take care of your own integrity and everyone else does the same.
You can judge others but your judgment can be disagreeable to whoever wants to disagree.
I do not agree with your standard of integrity.
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skyrider
All this stuff.......answering to WD.......is ludicrous.
Who is he, anyway???
He never went WOW.
He never went into the Corps.
So.....he stayed in Kansas (???) and ran a fellowship and took the adv class. So.......?????
Sorry......it just seems all too ridiculous to me that he is some type of "standard."
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cman
Yeah, skyrider, that's the point.
His pov is not everyone's, and whitedove may not see that as fact and truth.
In the way, everything was one way.
It's not true there are many ways of thinking.
And we have that freedom to decide for our selves what integrity someone else has.
We do not need it dictated to us anymore like in the way.
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waysider
When I post here about things I experienced in fellow laborers, I am not usually posting about things that happened only to me.
There were usually 50 other people in the room or, if it happened in our "house", there were usually at least 6 people present.
Some of them post here.
Some of them know someone who posts here or are known by someone who posts here.
Some of them lurk here. Some have never heard of GSC.
And, of course, there are some who have left this world behind.
Why on earth would I want to fabricate something that could be refuted by 50 (give or take) other people who were there?
If my memory of these events is incorrect, I'm open to correction.
This same concept applies to people who were in the corps, except there were many more than 50 who shared common events.
For goodness sake!
There were 50 other people in the room the time we were called out in the middle of the night to be told what total failures we had been.
There were 50 other people present when we were told the whole ministry might go down the tubes because we, representing the birthplace of the ministry, had failed.
Just how many "eyewitnesses" does one really need?
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pond
maybe you wouldnt but some people would ? why ? many reasons waysider hate is always a motive that generates words with out integrity imo.
but that isnt the part that bother me or the type of accounts that I think discredit GS.
it is statesment: like the leaders in twi raped woman. a very sensational statement yet where are the fifty people, or the arrest records ? what ya got is a poster on the internet that says it is so so it most be truth. and it gets heated because some know one another and play on this forum and believe in one another and so it is assumed personal. it isnt .
lcm was never charged with a crime nor was vpw yet by the standard here they have been convicted .
ok for the people here in the mix believing every word yall say to one another.
in the other world, the world without cult co-authorship and kin folk on-line it really just comes out as gossip and slander. ESP. since the facts of LCM case can be viewed for what it is in truth by all!
At the end of the day GS power players will win one another over and discredit any good this entire web site has done really. that is why I feel so strongly about this issue.
but not enough to have the type of personalities on this board attack me for it , and dare i say I really doubt Im alone on this. Waysider you told me in another post that GS helped you put the pieces of a puzzle together about facts you didnt know concerning twi.
that information is still here and available.
I would like to see that happen for other folks but Im afraid this site is losing alot of integrity by "frabricating' as you call it.
people lie waysider people from twi lied plenty, and anyone coming here is going to see more of the same finger pointing without any base of proof and just dismisss it as much of the same.
and some of the stuff on this site is helpful and will also be discounted as the same as a ranting woman and a rather persistant bird.
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excathedra
dear jeffs, i'm very very sorry and saddened by what happened to you
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Dot Matrix
God bless you Jeff
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Ham
I dunno.. if I was a new poster at this site, I'd probably think twice before telling my story to be castigated by accusations of falsehood, repeated demands for court documents supporting my claim, demands for EVIDENCE.. rejection of confirming eyewitness testimony..
"God save da Mog"..
So what's the tactic here.. hmm.
Maybe it's to discredit the claims by "forcing" the one making the claim to appear practically insane, desperately trying to convince the supposed ill informed denier that the events indeed happened?
Honestly.. that's probably it.. one way to "deal" with offenses I suppose. The "fight" here isn't technically with the one denying the claim. It's with the corrupt organization that allowed it to happen, or was directly involved in the offense involved. Or those in the organization who directly caused the harm.
But I think some people willingly throw themselves in front of the steam roller here.. why? I dunno.. maybe to take the heat off of their precious mog, mogette, or memory of the same..
perhaps to them, it's "just" an internet site.. we're not *people*.. we're *just* screen names..
I've been fairly honest about my twi experience. And why I'm here..
Interesting I've never gotten a reply from the other side "what's in it for YOU"..
"oh, it's not about *me*. I just don't wanna see somebody ELSE lynched with false accusations"
That's not what I asked.. not "what's in it for OTHER PEOPLE"..
What's in it for YOU, personally?
See.. it's not your fight. That is, unless you happen to be the vicster, rosie, the loyster, the donster.. "he who never mixes his bread and vegetables".. or one of their close cronies.. one who committed offense to God's people..
why put yourself in their place?
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Ham
I mean.. why in the world would one dress one's self up as an effigy of vic, or loy.. or someone equally as nasty and subverted.. and then complain when the effigy gets beat with sticks here?
Where is the logic in this?
try to stuff all that dirt back under the carpet again..
"come back to da VERD"..
"tow the line like a good little believer.."
It's like.. dressing up like a chicken at a crocodile convention..
just an observation.. either it's pure ignorance, or it has some kinda purpose or agenda..
who knows.. maybe it's innocent. Maybe they LIKE being a chicken..
I dunno.. I dressed up as the Squirrel and showed up at a squirrel haters internet forum once. I just wanted to see if they had a sense of humor..
I dunno.. it's not "personal".. I'm just trying to understand here.
Maybe..
maybe they are masochistic or something.. I dunno.
I'm not exactly masochistic.. I exited the squirrel haters club fairly quickly and graciously.. "sorry you don't have a sense of humor here.." and I just LEFT.
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WhiteDove
Not everyone is concerned about whats in in for me............ Some of us learned to consider whats in it for others.
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Ham
and some of us have abandoned that fallacious form of reasoning... knowing FULL WELL that we can't love someone else, until we REALLY learn to love ourselves, and not limited to vic's, loy's, or twi's definition..
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rascal
That is rediculous....YOU are not the one who decides what qualifies here as to what is pertinent or relevant....My experiences are mine to relate here, and the contribution is welcomed as long as it is done politely.
Please, relate your personal experiences from your limited experience and exposure in twi. Allow the rest of us the same courtesy to relate our experiences as wow`s or corpes, or victims of abuse.
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WhiteDove
Never said I decide only that by definition of the word that is what it is ,no where in the definition of alleged does it say that anyone's experience determines if it is alleged or not , you want to ignore the English language and make up your own definitions go ahead, I'll note that. I'll be answering the rest of your post on another thread later for you and Mr Sky
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Ham
I personally spent well over twenty years in the organization, working a second rate job, not continuing education.. to be "available" to supposedly move the word..
to be able to have the free time to help run classes.. meetings..
be "free" to go to meetings..
I had a night job once.. real possibility of advancement, education..
you'd think.. "well, thank GOD He opened doors for ham like this.."
naw.. "grrr.. and why CAN'T you come to twig? To classes? etc.. etc.."
What's ironic.. we fought to have just a TINY bit of individuality in this life.. and how easily some of us were convinced to just throw it away..
ninety nine percent of this life is about other people. People we love, people we owe, people we pay..
nobody gets the one percent that's left from me, at least today..
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rascal
Dove, you just weren`t there plain and simple. It is pretty silly to think that you understand the different teachings, the different requirements, the different level of commitment required. It was a different world than the one you lived in and enjoyed :(
To call folks into question because their experiences and impressions do not mirror your own is pretty unrealistic
You are in no position to deny anybody elses experiences, or to pass judgement.
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Ham
So.. I reissue the question.. "what's in it, for YOU"?
just a thought..
if it ISN'T about *you*.. then to me, it kinda logically falls under the 99 percent category.. who one LOVES, who one OWES, who one PAYS..
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WhiteDove
Answer still the same
Not everyone is concerned about whats in in for me............ Some of us learned to consider whats in it for others.
Apperantly you worry about yourself I don't that is the difference between us......
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WhiteDove
Again I state....... I never called anyone experiance into question only that there experiances do not make truth until proven until then they are alledged. That's the word sorry if it does not fit with your agenda.....
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rascal
No agenda, just want to be allowed to speak of my experiences without you following behind calling me a liar.
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WordWolf
This is a DISCUSSION forum.
It seems silly to have to break it down, but some people need this from time to time.
This is NOT a court of law.
The rules for DISCUSSIONS- the customs, really- are what are used here.
When people discuss, when people have conversations, they don't go around saying
"I allege this happened yesterday..". They just tell their story.
If someone calls them into question, THEN there's allegations.
A professional made a claim once about something someone said at a specific place
at a specific time. I commented later: "I was there at that moment and they didn't
say that." A discussion followed, and, as it turned out, I was there exactly 24 hours
LATER and missed the time and place that it was said. Since I was not there after all,
I could not speak to what others saw and did. (So I didn't try.)
Actually, it sounded like something they WOULD say, so my comment was only on the
specifics.
And this story had no connection to twi, the GSC, or anything related to it.
When people just talk, they don't have to pretend they're in court, make a major presentation,
or say "alleged" every 2nd sentence or something.
When was the last time you heard
"Sorry I'm late- I'm alleging there was a traffic jam on the highway?"
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WhiteDove
When accusing someone of a crime it is different than a traffic incident WW a crime as Pond said is a serious charge, that requires clear speaking and proper wording.
Again I'd like to see proof of that ,again you misrepresent me despite numerous times I have address yor claim.
Now I have accused you of just making S**t up things just like this for instance, but then the lack of proof of your claim seems to point out that.
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