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POLITICS is not permitted on the GSC. The GSC is NOT about politics. Funny you should bring this up exactly today. When 9-11 happened, many people felt the need to express how they felt at the moment. Over time, allowing people to keep talking on that and related subjects- and gradually less-relevant subjects- led to political discussions that poisoned the atmosphere of the board. The staff spent more time on the handful of political posters in 1 forum than they did with hundreds of other posters all along the board. People who wouldn't moderate themselves were moderated by others= and responded by lashing out at the staff like immature toddlers. It was a stressful, thankless, NEEDLESS job. Eventually, the choices were- remove the political forum and political posts, or remove the entire GSC. The GSC was never about politics and does not need to be so. So, politics was deleted. There's lots of places online to post on politics, and there's only one GSC. If you really can't control yourself, you can always find some other board of ex-GSC and go complain how unfair things are that there's actual moderation here. You would hardly be the first to do that, nor the last.

Rereading that comment (the entire comment), to me it seems even more salient and awe inspiring that the GSC member who calls herself BecomingMe chose that moniker.

I continue to learn and experience "sunesis" (running together of rivers, or something like that, but can also be described, IMO as connecting the dots). Recently, I recognized this: Talk about emotional projection! Do a GSC site search for hypnosis. The subject has come up before. But several threads/comments (well before Skyrider spelled it out this week on a thread about Wierwille's PFLAP (1967 filmed class)) cited the advanced class on what I refer to as PFLAP. In THAT class, so much verbal sleight of hand to make everyone afraid of it because of devil spirits. Well, hypnosis is MUCH less complicated than Wierwille led us to believe. From wikipedia: Now, according to such an explanation, it seems apparent that Wierwille used theatrics to induce a form of hypnosis in the "foundational" PFLAP class. Clearly, what we experienced in PFLAP wasn't overtly coercive (at least at first). We were left with the impression that we still had agency. But did we have a version of agency with significant constraints? Anyway, I should probably stop there.

It's one thing to get out of the way, and that's not easy, and another thing to get the way out of ourselves, a lot harder, I believe. As you know well, BecomingMe. It took me quite a few years of attacking this way thing in my head, before I think it was finally done. Looking at it now and from the past, I was battling myself, not someone else or some kind of god or devil. A lot of people helped, whether they know it or not. Mostly people from Greasespot, but others as well.

One of the saddest things I experienced running these PFAL classes for people was the grads who served. They were kind of a running dialogue going along with the quirks of the class. They had all sat through it many times to the point of having it all memorized. Then they would interject pre scripted comments in places. It was so bizarre. What it reminded me of was this group in college that used to go to Rocky Horror Picture Show and dress up and counter dialogue and wear rain gear and throw water on each other: Peoples behavior patterns fascinate me.

YES, cman!!!!! I totally agree. And when I thought I had worked out most of the "doctrinal" stuff, there was a whole layer of psychological bull$!*% left along with a thick layer of trauma reactions. I'm trying to come to peace with the idea that I may never be done.

Hi..my name is Oldskool and I'm an alcoholic and Im stone cold sober. Wierwille's line of reasoning resontates to this old alcoholic because us alcoholics love to rationalize our addiction, like all addicts. Wierwille is full of bullshido. In this quote he rationalizes his own alcoholism by rationalizing a difference between a drunk and an alcoholic. Alcoholics do not drink just one way. Meaning all of us do not just drink ourselves out every night. Many of us are binge drinkers, and many more are binge drinking, functioning alcoholics. And I think that's exactly what wierwille was -- a binge drinking, functioning alcoholic. He at least copped to being a drunk though...he just hadn't hit rock bottom yet.

Yep. 1979 AC: page 20 of the syllabus; page 100-something in the transcript. (See attached.) According to vic's cookie jar fueled logic, Leviathan is both the sea monster AND the waterless place left behind after all the sea monster's drinking. HOWEVER, according to his 1971 AC, Leviathan is only a "water-head baby" with a swollen belly from all the water drinking. It's just that one sentence I quoted up thread. Just tremendous kernels of truth! Bless your little hearts.

Stayed Too Long, I do understand your skepticism, and I’m grateful to Rocky for speaking up on my behalf. I welcome private messages from anyone who is still skeptical. You asked why I’ve waited so long to speak up. For years, I was so afraid to. Dad’s perspective on the internet and sites like Greasespot being fiery darts lodged itself in my brain and was hard to fight for awhile. After that, I was afraid news of my writing here would get back to my mom, with whom I still have a relationship I would like to maintain. Another factor you may not have considered is that this is my family being written about, so it feels pretty personal. But the basic answer here is trauma. I’ve grappled with one traumatic memory after another, one trauma reaction after another. So it’s taken me a minute to be ready to show up.

There's a lot to respond to here, and I probably will repeat others / miss stuff... One thought that comes up from several is basically the idea that he should be respected, or that he helped some people, or that he wasn't all "that" bad. I definitely respect each individual's personal experiences and opinions. AND his overall presence in the world, in my opinion, has been a net negative. He was a victim of VPW's, yes. And he was also a villain/perpetrator/predator to many, many others. I know this is harsh, and I hope I don’t offend anyone too deeply, but he doesn’t deserve anyone’s admiration or respect. He was/is a cult leader that took advantage of people over and over again. Did he do some good? Yes. But it’s overshadowed by the — at best — delusional decisions he made about people’s lives, livelihoods, families, social lives, personal wellbeing, their bodies, their choices…the list goes on and on. I think of all the points here this is the hot-button one for me, so my personal experience perhaps clouds my judgement. But I also think my personal experience informs my judgement here in a way others don’t have access to — meaning, I know what kind of a person he was/is. WordWolf, you mentioned that those listening to him now are probably over 50 and are responsible for their own thoughts and beliefs. Thank you for that perspective; you’re right, I think (hope?), although I do think brainwashing is real and more powerful than popular opinion sees it as. Another question that comes up is whether he really believes his stuff or is just a con man. He believes it wholeheartedly. Always has, and I think always will. I think that in itself is a “reason” he continues on with teaching. He believes it’s God’s will.

You know what killed that little boy? Well, I'll tell you. It was a 1939 Packard with a rumble seat.

Oh Jeezus. Is there any more clear of a way to rationalize your sin and establish it as a doctrine than “spiritual adultery” versus the act of actual adultery?

YES! A thousand times, YES! Back then, critics would say we were brainwashed, but it took decades before academic research had pinpointed how and why that was the case. In a sense, his histrionics were intended as a form of hypnosis, to get us to reduce our resistance to his mind shaping (controlling) suggestions.