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Yet, Mike apparently hopes that seekers who come to GSC for inspiration on why they should return to twi and pflap will diligently sort through the noise and find his remarkable "wisdom" (albeit, his deficient ability to clearly communicate) because God will guide them. Mike flunked.

So naturally, being an expert in "spiritual mechanics" you're going to tell us how it works. How do you know how it works? Do you understand God designed the physical world to help us understand the spiritual world? God says we're a family, so to help us understand that he created families. God says he is a father, to help us understand that he created fathers. The other posters just explained something to you in that "logically logic" that Saint Vic claimed he used in PLAF. Then you did the exact opposite of your above complaint and refused to give it 35 seconds before you knee-jerked "this is too little PLAF" and let it cloud your understanding. Give it some time. This is one thing that puts me off. For Saint Vic, anything was acceptable, just claim it was "spiritual." Don't let the sun go down on your anger, but "spiritual" anger is okay. Want to sin? Just stay right in your spirit and then sin all you want. Common sense tells us one thing, but, guess what, the spiritual world doesn't follow common sense.

I forgot about this one! You are correctomundo.

Dude....I was at your last show and thought I would share a little of the video I captured....I'd always wondered why you wouldnt do two shows a night!

See I found the reason right here. Postulates that MUST be accepted. then you can look for understanding somewhere else. I included an old pic of myself from my way corps years looking for understanding elsewhere after I had accepted those postulates that must be accepted. Gonna go sleep in tongues now... bullshonta malakas many la seetay...

That hoverboard is recent technology that must be a copy PFLAP Today Although I will say, he bears a striking resemblance to the guy in that framed picture hanging on the wall in the old PFAL video…minus the cloud and the hoverboard of course…but come to think of it wierwille - probably had lingering smoke clouds and a drink cart near the production set.

Hold up, hold up! Are you trying to tell me the Mr. Ed show is not real ?!?! I’ve got those empty PFAL syllabus blues

My buddy calls me up and asks “why weren’t you at my Halloween party last night?” I told him I was. “Really?” He says “maybe I didn’t recognize you in costume- who did you go as?” I said “the absent Christ.” Ba dum bum…I’m here all week folks

Interesting idea, Allan. A grapevine, hopefully. Producing some crackin' good wine.

Ya aintz gots ta lie, Craaaig.

What in the actual eff does spiritual mechanics work like physical mechanics even mean? Please explain to me how spiritual mechanics work. I think one of the basic problems with wierwille's so called theology is he just never seemed to understand what holy spirit was really for. It wasn't only for communication and it's presence or abscence in a person has nothing to do with God's ability to communicate. It is a downpayment, it is a new nature that gives us power over the sin nature so we don't have to obey the sin nature, it's a new creation born within us that one day will lead to our full bodily redemption, holy spirit convicts of sin and cleanses us from unrighteousness, etc. God has always communicated with his creation in a multitude of ways. Heck the very nature of the creation declares God's handiwork, there's astronomy, written scripture, burning bushes, talking donkeys, etc. The very narrowminded idea that spirit is needed on ourside and the preposterous idea that God CAN ONLY COMMUNICATE WITH SPIRIT is just ridicoulous. It doesn't fit with reality, scripture, history, astronomy, etc. in the least. Why must I accept this garbage? Because some guy put it in a book in an authoratative manner and demanded my agreement? Those days are long gone. Please eloborate. Ahh....were back to the assumed moral superiority based on how much time you've supposedly been doing something, with it's corresponding condescending attitude. You are just so much wiser than little ole' inexperienced me. Endless geanology type stuff. I've been reading and studying all things wierwille since 96 and thats plenty of time. I will give vpw's errors not another second in my life. If you continue to do so then enjoy your time in the ditch cause thats where people wind up who follow blind men. A wise man would spend about 35 seconds reading wierwilles baloney and put it down recognizing that it's riddled with error. Sadly I wasn't very wise when I was young but wierwille's cult targets the young and still does to this day. Lemme get this straight. If wierwille says "God cannot" in a class then I should pay attention? You know what...I agree. It is an attention getter that he had no earthly idea what he's talking about. The only thing I know for sure that God cannot do is be tempted with evil, lie, or change. I refuse to be so arrogant to think that as a created being I can say with any authority what God cannot do besides what he puts in scripture, which I quoted - maybe my list isn't exhaustive but it doesn't need to be to refute your points. Horrible analogy. Grasping straws....have to make up an analogy to try and make it fit...so what are we...God's little pets? Am I a spiritual doggie? Last time I checked we are sons of God purchased with the greatest price ever paid: the shedding of Jesus Christ's innocent blood. Comparing us to animals is just bad taste and unscriptural. I've simmered enough. I've worked vics stuff for years and probably with more effectiveness that what you have been able to do because I had access and utilized heavily the camp Gunnison library and HQ library. I've listened to most all of the old corps tapes, university of life tapes, on down the line. I had access to every printed book and every syllabus worth clasping my hands on in those two libraries. I really did live maximum learning in minimum time to the fullest. I've been all over the way international from soup to nuts, from being joe believer to being an arrogant way corps cabinet guy. Sorry - being dismissive of my times and experiences in the way simply do not hold any water because I have been exposed to so much more than you.....see how that works? I can assume a popmpous, fake level of superiority as well. But I won't. I simply disagree with your postulate and many things vpw said and the way international still teaches.

There have been legions of human explorers, blazing their own paths where no one had gone before them. Decades ago, I found the late Gail Sheehy's book, Pathfinders particularly intriguing. Pathfinders tells stories of lots of people who determined not to be limited by absence of a guru/teacher. It was first published 40 years ago today. Nov 1, 1982. No book in the last decade has changed more lives than Gail Sheehy's groundbreaking Passages. Now, going beyond Passages in purpose and scope, Gail Sheehy's landmark best-seller explains why some of us overcome life's crises while others do not. Through interviews with hundreds of people of all ages and backgrounds, she has found the true pathfinders�men and women who have discovered uncommon solutions to the predictable crises and unexpected accidents of adult life. In vivid, unforgettable portraits, Gail Sheehy tells their life stories and analyzes the process by which they accumulated confidence, control and courage in their lives. Pathfinders is that rare book which sets you on your own unique path to well-being. Pretty sure I read it in the late 1980s or early 1990s.

According to vpw in pfal, God is Spirit, and can only communicate with that which He is-which is Spirit. (That's the 2nd of the 2 mutually-exclusive postulates he gave. the less-limiting one.) vpw's standard explanation for revelation to people not born again and not prophets was that God Almighty would put spirit upon them conditionally in that instance only, and remove it shortly thereafter. (That's how he explained "the writing on the wall." BTW, FF Bruce explained it better, and that explanation doesn't require discussing revelation.) So, to follow vpw's rules for spirit strictly, What happened here was that God Almighty, since he was unable to communicate directly with the mind of the donkey, put some spirit conditionally upon the donkey. Since that was not sufficient to make the donkey able to speak and make sense, God also had to perform a miracle and temporarily increase the donkey's wit and make him able to utter intelligible speech. Once He had done that, He could communicate with His Spirit to the donkey's temporary spirit, which became manifested in the senses realm when the donkey spoke. To discard vpw's explanation, God Almighty performed a miracle that raised the donkey's wit, and allowed him intelligible speech. Nothing further was needed. That was pretty miraculous as it was.

We never really made a thread on the subject, because it was so easily proven wrong. First of all, it wasn't even consistent. "God is Spirit- and God can only give that which He is, which is Spirit." -vpw, pfal. "God gave manna. God is not manna." -Raf, GSC. "God is Spirit- and God can only communicate with that which He is, which is Spirit."-vpw, pfal. Several people pointed out the obvious problems with that, as it doesn't even work on paper- especially when what vpw called "The Great Principle" comes into play. "God is Spirit, and God communicates with his spirit in you- which is now your spirit, and your spirit teaches your mind. Then it becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act." So, now God's Spirit IS UNABLE to communicate with my mind directly, because God is Spirit, and Spirit cannot communicate with mind directly since mind is not spirit. So, God's Spirit communicates directly to my spirit. The next step is that my spirit teaches my mind. To do that, it MUST FIRST COMMUNICATE with my mind. So, my spirit can do what God Almighty's Spirit is UNABLE TO DO. Seriously, if you spend time trying to save "the Great Principle" with your usual method of "that's the version for public consumption, but even the Corps and the inner cadre never REALLY heard the secret, occult meaning behind that- of which the version in pfal is an oversimplified, understated version", you're not going to get any converts to it, and you're just going to sink deeper into the rabbit hole. But, if you really want to discuss it, sure, start a new thread in Doctrinal. (That's when you make a new thread yourself specifically to discuss something, that's not when you take a different, existing thread with a different subject and start posting your new subject on it.)

[False Dilemma. "There are 2 types of people- those who divide people into 2 types, and those who don't." (BTW, that's another false dilemma even while it's a joke.) False Dilemmas are a lot like the postulate "You can't go beyond what you've been taught." They limit discussion and they limit THINKING into narrow channels, when other answers may work better. (Oh, and for those who are just skimming me for finding cut-and-paste to use against me later.... Just because only two options are offered is NOT a guarantee something is a False Dilemma. Sometimes there's only two possibilities, and often there are a lot more. One actually has to make the effort to determine which they are dealing with. Since that's work, some people will just guess. In the case of those who fence themselves in with a postulate (like "I can't go beyond what I've been taught") will find they don't really have an option without stepping outside their postulate.) ]

This was a perceptual flaw that was inflicted on you. It was inflicted on me, too, but I actually blew it off the first time I heard it, since I knew it was wrong. "You can't go beyond what you've been taught."- vpw False. "You can't go beyond what you KNEW- but you can learn more and THEN go beyond what you KNEW." - WordWolf What's the difference? vpw's version inflicts the "need" for a teacher on someone in order to learn ANYTHING. vpw was fond of inventing problems- and then offering the solutions for them- for a price. it was a lucrative, if unprincipled, business for him. So, if you begin with "You can't go beyond what you've been taught", then the next thing is needing to find a teacher, and only going as far as they can teach you. If you truly seek "mastery" of something, you have to completely discard that postulate and go FAR beyond what anyone can teach you. That's what "masters" of a thing do. Bruce Lee developed Jeet Kun Do in private, having gone far beyond what others had taught him. The Gracie family took Jiu Jitsu- a striking style- and added large amounts of grappling, holding, throws, and ground-fighting to it. The result was "Brazilian Jiu Jitsu"- which is a lot more dangerous than the conventional kind. (Check the octagon if there's any doubt.) Those who DECIDE that they CAN'T go beyond what they've been taught will discover they are correct, and those who decide that they CAN go beyond what they've been taught will discover that THEY are correct as well.

Oh yes one of my favorite collaterals Why Division? Before we get to the payload let’s highlight what is there NOT causing the division. 1. VPs sex life 2. Drambuie Kools and exposing yourself 3. screaming at people and kicking them out of your programs and maligning them to others. 4. Contentious book titles 5. Calling all the heads of denominations seed of the serpent. 6. Strong arming hippie movements taking them over by force with your people Now let’s discuss from the PFAL collaterals what causes division. Us not being more teachable. That’s it. Unfortunately I have two eyes and a brain. I think the division is more because of the first 6 things not because we are not more teachable. It’s the same reason there still is division with the super nice guys in charge now. The house was built on the sinking sand of a flim flam artists disturbed mind.

YOUR message, not GOD'S?

I mean, why does it have to be only two? On another note:try and tell someone from the way that there really are more than just 5 senses....

Then your knowledge will be limited to what your teacher taught you. There are other ways to know, to learn.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4069.Man_s_Search_for_Meaning

Very long way to go there, Mike. Very, very long way.

Try this for clarifying your idea, Mike. Do what Jesus did. He read, studied in depth, what was available, over many years. He listened earnestly to what his parents told him. Probably listened to Aunt Elizabeth, too (she whom Mary visited in her pregnancy - to find that Elizabeth the barren was herself pregnant with John later known as the Baptist). He listened earnestly to what learned teachers had to say. He respectfully listened to rabbis and other teachers, considered carefully what they said (and did). Learned by rote and by frequent repetition. And he used his considerable intelligence to sort out chaff from wheat; to sort practical error and hypocrisy from simplicity of God's plans for human interactions; to discern distortions and lies from truth. Jesus paid close attention to other people, their words, their wishes, their actions. You'll see that Jesus was astoundingly smart by the age of about 12, following the teaching of rabbis etc in the temple. You'll see a blank period where he was processing what he'd learned, but undoubtedly between 12 and 30 he was continuing to study and ask questions - and listening to the answers. He was learning to listen to, and handle, human beings and their foibles and follies. Yes, Jesus had to be sure, as much as he could - or did he? - that God would raise him from the dead. (That might be a separate topic in its own right.) In any event, don't you recall that only a short period before, he'd prayed and raised Lazarus from the dead? A demonstration, perhaps, of God's willingness to do that for Jesus? If you know you are destined to be a sacrifice, does it matter at all if you "know" you will be raised from the dead? Maybe that's too much of a latter-day construction - or something more "western" in concept. As I said above, Jesus paid close attention to other people, their words, their wishes, their actions. Perhaps if you tried some of the same, you could "clarify your idea" fairly quickly.

Because it denotes a person in a position of trust relationship like a judge or a therapist. It describes the betrayal of the trust that society normally places in a person with those credentials. If you don’t find my example that different than the normal thoroughfare of what you saw, isn’t that even more reason to call out the abuse? Abuse happens in all sorts of churches not just the Way. That book is a good one - The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse - check it out if you want a good read.

This video was too money not to post it on the absent Christ thread…