Leaderboard

The Bible itself is ONE BIG REMINDER of a lot of invisible spiritual stuff happening . I think your theories are more of an unnecessary risk than an advantage, because you insert your own opinion of who is winning, assume others have the same impotent life that you lead, and trivialize God to something less than sovereign and all-powerful, besides the fact there is usually an unhealthy fascination with the devil - much more so than what Scripture says about Christ disarming the enemy’s power and authority: 6So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. 8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces a of this world rather than on Christ. 9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh b was put off when you were circumcised by c Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you dalive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. Colossians 2 NIV

Hi MarieP and Annio and thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and hearts, I was never in the corps but was in twi for 12 years. During that time I went wow (1974-1975), took the advanced class and led both adult and children fellowships. I too taught the law of believing and the great principle about how we operate the spirit of God. I spoke of what Jesus accomplished for us but failed to speak of the joy and power that having an actual relationship with Christ brings (because I didn't even know about it myself). My greatest regret is for all the hurting people I talked with and my main answer to their pain was to take pfal. I did not love them with the love of God. I’d faithfully share John 10:10 with them but not Luke 4:18 where Jesus defines the abundant life he came to give to people. I had more faith in a class than I had in the spirit of God working in me to minister to someone’s needs. I've confessed to God of how sad and feeble of a Christian I was to them. I think it speaks of your relationship with God, Annio, that you were able to show compassion for the abusers and forgive them. I wonder though, why it is often harder for us to accept God’s forgiveness for ourselves? Understanding the role I played in what went on around me in twi and sorting through my feelings about the role leadership played in messing things up spiritually is important to do. But when I consciously or subconsciously added into this mix past traumas and insecurities I had before I even knew of twi, figuring things out became more complicated and confusing. One last thing, if at times who I thought I was and what I thought I had while in twi was based on following man made doctrine and not the truth of God’s Word, realizing the worthlessness of it all was a hard pill to swallow. So was the realization that the “issues” from my past which I thought were gone had really only been covered over because a cult like twi cannot bring deliverance nor healing. It’s all been a lot to deal with but for me the answer has been to go back to Luke 4:18 and get to know Christ personally so he can be the one to teach me and heal my broken heart and deliver me from captivity and open my eyes to the truth and set me at liberty from my shattered life. This is the process that Christ wants to continue working on with me and it has been the most effective and rewarding. Being on GSC was where it all started for me. I hope you both will continue to post as well.

Now why would Saint Vic want a paper on adultery and fornication? Looking for a loophole maybe.

Efforts to confirm victor’s flimsy opinions and conclusions do not constitute research in 1955, 1965, 1975 or 1985. Real research never begins with a conclusion. Never. Schoenheit. Why is his name so frequently invoked? He still teaches the obvious stupidity of four crucified. Not impressed. How many sermons, essays and theological monographs have been written on adultery and fornication over the last 2000 years? Innumerable. That vic requested “research” on the topic speaks to his deception and stupidity. Who could possibly require further “research” in order to get straight on this topic?

“Big enough job learning and moving what has been given to us.” Along with a complete denial or investigation of the truth of or fruit of VPWs plagiarism and dishonesty. Oh but it is all better now because there won’t be another VPW. Yes that is the re-search camp. And the whitewash camp. It really is another example of false advertising to call TWI a “Biblical Research, Teaching and Fellowship” ministry. Those words are only true if you re-define what each of the terms mean. Re-search instead of research. One way communication instead of teaching. Fellowship with only those Christians who have “taken the class” and are “standing with the ministry”. Yes if you redefine darkness as light then TWI makes sense.

I see plenty of logic and reason on this thread from people with various viewpoints. If it is a vaccine then it’s kind of suckish.

I didn’t learn to be overly judgmental of my life in TWI. Exactly the opposite. I was Corps fulfilling Gods calling. I was walking by revelation. I was following the directives laid out in the household. When did I become “overly judgmental” of my life? When I was shunned and manipulated and gaslighted to believe the negative things the Pharisees told me. So what did I do? Sought out a second opinion. And told the first group and their opinion to pound sand. I guess in a topic entitled “taking responsibility and a long hard look at yourself” this would not be the thread where I am focusing on the sonship rights from the blue book. It would be more where I do the hard work to sort out my culpability in past endeavors. Sorry sometimes words come out really direct I’m not trying to confront anyone I am trying to tell my truth.

So you think a large production largely featuring devil spirit costumes where the lead in tights is having an illicit affair with the head “seed of the serpent” who happens to be a hot chick to “loosen up in that category” as directly instructed by his “father in the Word” was too much?

I hear you sky. To me it is somewhat of a delicate balance. I had and have a genuine desire to live as a Christian with Jesus Christ as Lord not as a bobble head on the dashboard I can manipulate. The Way’s version of that reality is a “lifetime of Christian service” as a label, but the details of that are becoming a yes-man to Pharisees who make policy to make life easier for themselves and harder for those that follow them. And to tiptoe around in fear of saying anything critical for fear of excommunication. That is not a lifetime of Christian service. That is a lifetime of Pharisee service and self service. So the dilemma here is a genuine young soul and a corrupt system. How do I resolve those two ? Human nature is to make up a story where I am a hero. Whether true or not. But the truth of the matter is the corrupt system hurt and enslaved many. And I was “sold out” to the system and didn’t really consider that some people would bait and switch my genuine desire to replace with absolute compliance to “the system”. One analogy has been the role of a prison guard. These roles can be assumed very quickly as the Stanford prison experiment showed. The Way Corps was a larger scale Stanford Prison Experiment that produces a new set of prison guards every year, helping to perpetuate the prison experiment lifestyle. A ruling class and a governed class. Both classes constructed on blind obedience and trust. This is a recipe for a cult. The pattern can get really bad like the Heavens Gate group and the Jonestown group. In TWI sometimes you had benevolent prison guards who treated the prisoners well. With my genuine heart and desire I fulfilled that pattern most of the time. But I was bound to follow orders and beat the prisoners other times. So do I want to invent a history where I was the hero to myself and everyone around me? I don’t. I feel that would be lying to myself and everyone around. I would rather try and view from an objective perspective and highlight the scam that started the prison experiment. Was God there through it all? Yes always. Did I see His hand in my life in the midst of this? Yes. To me to be true to God I tell the truth now. Thankfully my family hasn’t shunned me and I am able to rebuild some bridges. That’s not true for others who were victims of shunning and whose families are entangled still. These are very real ongoing problems. The gap between the whole body of Christ functioning together and a bunch of Pharisees isolating a “household of God” subject to lock step compliance is huge. To me telling the truth is more important than my ego to reinvent the path I traveled. Let me be an average Christian in an average church doing average good works over being some hot shot who posts his resume on the net about how they saved the world through the greatness of their “yes ma’am”. We did a fair amount of good for people and their lives while in. We helped many navigate the policy waters of their insane approach to debt helping the best we could. We protected the flock from evil intentions of overseers. We tried our best to genuinely help them. As Stanford prison guards. Not some anointed version of a fake clergy with a golden calf VP statue and an oversized ego. Not saying that is you sky. You have a genuine heart to help others and serve. Your insights are articulate and balanced. You help a lot of people here. I’m sure you helped people you led also in TWI. So did I and yes I have memories of some great snapshots that God helped energize when I was in also. Just trying to tell the truth and catalyze more freedom for myself and others. And the truth about TWI is to look at the putrid fruit brought about by their Pharisee systems and activities. I would rather have one day of freedom than 10 years of recognition of being a really important person in a prison experiment.

It's actually not a bad article - but it's ruined by the pseudo-intellectualism of stuffing in assorted Greek words, which in context add absolutely nothing to the article. If they were removed, the article wouldn't be any the worse off. And they can't resist sticking their own special interpretation on the Greek words they pull up: see - "The first word that stands out to us is “run,” which is translated from the Greek word trechō. This word literally means to run, but metaphorically it indicates exerting oneself, to strive hard, or to spend one’s strength in performing or attaining something." Yes, that's as may be, but the whole thing is: "We know something a bit better than [someone else]." Paul said, he was all things to all men. He could talk in athletic terms to those with an athletic bent, or where it suited the context and climate of the times. In other places, he talked of putting on armour - to talk, perhaps, to a different group of people. Agricultural and husbandry references abound throughout the Bible, and doubtless Paul used many to expound to those who most understood agriculture. And so we too must explain, or use as a springboard, the imagery and terms that would most reach those with whom we want to share the Good News. Maybe we would talk in terms of athletics, or military, or gardening - or in terms of writing the best computer program (knowing what you/your customer wants, and how to achieve that efficiently), or how to make a perfect cake (follow the rules for success) or playing a musical instrument (needs diligence and practice, you may even need to learn a new language). To over-focus on one metaphor is to minimise the topic and to cut down on outreach. And please don't remind me any more of AoS. Ugh!

This conversation on introspection and self-examination is a healthy endeavor to explore. Whether philosophically or spiritually, one is benefited greatly by this exercise to uncover the hidden things of darkness. Some things remain hidden in our lives until the passage of time. Without being overly-judgmental of our own lives, could it be that God has us on "the right path" even though we lament our tenure in twi? Could it be that until the passage of time, we were unable to receive, discern or examine the effects of standing before God without going through some "trials and tribulations" of our own? In reading the Church Epistles, I find that the Apostle Paul gives us large sweeping swaths of truth regarding 1) Legalism and 2) Liberty. On one side of the ledger, legalism in adherence to the law does not warrant one's own righteousness before God. Even with his bloodline and high credentials (a Pharisee of the Pharisees and as touching the law, blameless), Paul fell short of the righteousness given from God by faith. For indeed, it was in the power of Christ's resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings that opened doors of grace and mercy. On the other side is Liberty in Christ. Can one use this liberty as a license to sin? No, because in this liberty one might inflict harm on another believer by being a stumbling block to his faith. One is not to flaunt this liberty or be puffed up against another. Life in Christ must be in moderation else the trappings of the flesh, lusts and lasciviousness surface from the hidden darkness attempt to overtake this man or woman in their folly. Even though I was involved in twi for 20+ years.... there were several years (ie -- "fog years") that twi-activity was crawling along and we were raising our boys. During those times, we were engaged in life's simple activities and family time. Walks in the park, swing sets, slides, swimming pools, hugs and laughter .... living life. Other times, as years passed.... I think about fun activities with the believers. Snow skiing in Canada, hockey games, volleyball, basketball, movies, barbeques, etc..... enjoying the fellowship of others. So, when I approach this examination of "hurting others via twi-policies".... I try to give it some perspective through my years of involvement with twi. So, with some deeper perspective..... maybe we shouldn't beat ourselves up with a few missteps or zealousness to "do good." Maybe, just maybe.... our tenure in twi has given us greater insight of youthful exuberance carried away by bad counsel. Could it have happened under another Christian organization or business endeavor? Probably. Look how much we gained through our experiences. As Rocky and others like to always point out.... you and I wouldn't be able to help others with insight and guidance had we not taken this pathway in life. We are the sum total of our experiences. Peace to all.