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I'm looking at a new career path and am considering criminal justice and/or paralegal. Anyone in criminal justice have any words of wisdom? It's a field that has interested me for a while and I've kept putting off getting info on it. When I went to my 30 year high school reunion recently, I was motivated by the people I talked to who said they really like what they do, and I had to admit I am not one of them. I currently work in a call center working with medical billing. Just thought some of you might have an insiders view of those fields.

I am a bit confused as to what LCM was ordained as, was he like supposed to have the gift ministry of a prophet? I know he has been stripped of all that, some form of ex-communication. But, if he was a prophet, wouldn't stripping him of his ministry be a watered down version? Wouldn't, if he were a prophet, wouldn't it be more correctly false prophet? Inquirying minds want to know, cause I got no clue and was wondering....michael

All, There are a couple of threads going about a new witnessing class. During most of my time in TWI, witnessing was pretty much required. But it seemed like the corpse were somehow exempt. Keeping the Adversary in check, I'm sure. I can't remember a corpse person bringing anyone new during my last 10 years in TWI. (80s and 90s) In your area did the corpse witness with you and did they register people for a class? Feel free to say which decade(s) your answer covers. In TWI's view witnessing is ONLY effective if someone registers for a class and pays money. Their outlook, not mine. JT

Rosalie......rather than cranking up another class on Witnessing and Undershepherding with the same ole techniques, etc. etc. Why not......schedule staffers on a 3-day work week AND THEN, HAVE STAFFERS GO WITNESSING those other two days in Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, Toledo, etc. After all, surely staffers are "hot believers" since they've been working at headquarters, within the walls of zion, which is the spiritual epicenter of the known world. Then.........these "staff witnessing days" will be a present-day testimony of HOW TO DO IT RIGHT. And, better yet.....maybe you and donna should LEAD THE WAY and knock on some doors yourselves. Leading by example, what a concept???? Then.........David Chavisty can incorporate these testimonies into twi's new class. Otherwise....why should twi-followers take, again, another "witnessing" class when the hypocrisy is so glaring to all? Oh, silly me.....you guys are "waiting on tables" [Acts 6 or wherever?]. And you wonder why the way religion is so DEAD...????????? <_<

You just described over 15 years of my life. Thank goodness I found GSC and got out. If it weren't for everyone here, I might still be trapped there. JT

This got me thinking so here it goes, For what it is worth here is my opinion. I agree with what Twinky wrote about the lack of enthusiasm for way-bots to actually want to witness. Here is what I have seen in the last 10-15 years. This is my opinion of what I have seen and expiernced. Rewind time back to mid 1990’s, P.F.A.L. is going the way of the dinosaur and we have a new hope, a new class for the times. Captain Forehead is in full power. Look at him wrong or question anything and he yells, rants and spits for hours. New light declares there is a devil spirit behind every door and Sh!t can’t just happen because Sh!t happens, it’s because of weakness.. SO confront, confront , confront. People cheer the madness of Captain Forehead and love is lost and replaced with fear. The constant diet of barf, I mean teachings give us an ever-changing doctrine to follow. The hoops we were jumping thru to find grace and favor in Gods eyes keep getting harder. Confrontation is expected on EVERY LEVEL. Everyone was required to open up there lives to leaders. Small infractions are made into mountains. People were hurt, marked and avoided. People who just wanted the love of God, his word and fellowship with like-minded believers were tossed aside and their reputations were tarnished. Because any weakness was unacceptable. Captain Forehead was taking us to the promised land of the prevailing word, there would be causalities weakness and fear was not acceptable. The machine kept turning and people were chewed up and spit out. Friends for years turned against each all in the name of God. People who stood up to the madness and fought for truth were quickly shown the door. This example taught followers of the way to turn off their emotions and let there brothers and sisters in Christ be abused. After all, we were the chosen group of God and if they could not be meek to the NEW LIGHT and REVELATION Captain Forehead was getting directly from God. It was their loss, and at least it was not me called to that meeting where you had the privilege and honor to be yelled at and spit on for hours. The new class that CONFRONTS the illogic of the world with the logic of the word rolls out. People see the monster for what he is, a yelling screaming mad man. No debt Homo purge Y2K conspiracy Eve is a lesbian and if you don’t see it in the Word like I do just trust me. His word is law The Pope wants an aircraft carrier? Everyone is seed Everyone in the Way is safe from the devil (just not way corp. they will get you) Weakness always brings down strength Be an advanced class grad or your dirt All is not well in way world. Lots of questions but no answers just way corp. in your life. People afraid of everything, fear take over peoples lives. Things people are afraid of, Getting yelled at Missing a meeting Not witnessing No one new at fellowship Debt Any form of weakness Asking a question or questiong any thing A friend or spouse rating you out to leadership There is no more cheering Captain Forehead only fear of him and his way-corp. Nazis. There is no where to run and hide, you have tossed all your friends family and coworkers Aside for the Way International and you have no support except the Way. The problem is the Way stole your life, freewill, heart, money, time and love has been replaced with fear. Your life is filled with fellowships three times a week, one night to witness, a leaders meeting and my favorite the meeting where you or someone you love is confronted. The one day off is spent moving or cleaning or setting up something. Your ready to snap. You just want some time for you and the family, but your vacation has to be approved by leadership. You wonder how you got in this mess. What happened to the love? Where is God? How can I be so unworthy? Why can I not have it together Like Captain Forehead or my way corp. leadership? Why was I called to this great household of God? Why am I not meek to change. Why do I do not believe big enough or give enough? This is what I am being told by leaders and every STS. Then the unspeakable happens, Captain Forehead gets busted. The Fox is now in charge. When they confirm her as Prez ,it is said in manifestations she is to be the healer of people’s hearts. Don’t yell at me, I am just reporting facts. Fellowships are cut back to twice a week and people are encouraged to get involved in their communities. Way corp. are told that they are to serve the people not be served. The burden of all your time being consumed by the way is gone. People can take a breath. Rules are still there but, your not getting smacked as hard or as often. The evil is still there but not publicly enforced. The Way goes in to self-preservation mode. Captain Forehead is gone and instead of a taskmaster, we have an old witch. She is evil but wants to keep people around so she can live off the ABS. She realized LCM was a paranoid freak who thought everyone was out to get him and just about killed the cash cow. Love is still not there but at least people are not getting there a$$ kicked everyday. Freedom is still not there but at least people feel like they have some. The hippie days are gone and people are so brain washed on VP kool-aid. No other doctrine fits their beliefs so they must stay. 10- 20 -30-40 year service awards for faithfulness are handed out. Life was so bad at one time in the Way, but we as a household made it. People are happy to stay because it’s different now. People are content playing church. Because they fit in nowhere else. Backbiting and tattle telling is over and brainwashed people stick to gather again Fast forward, a few years and people chose to remeberthe past but will not speak of it. The internet has pages devoted to all the dirty little secrets about The Way. People have stayed In the way but have doubts and fears. Trust is an issue with leadership. Since life is not so bad anymore with a taskmaster, they get lulled to sleep again. They know its far from perfect like the good old VP days but hey its there little cult, I mean household. Witnessing is definitely out in most older grads minds. They have been thru hell and back and are embarrassed to bring people to fellowship. Everyone knows what is on the internet about the Way, and if a new person finds it and wants to talk about it, what defense do they have? None. They will be exposed as the village idiot for staying with the wacky cult for so long. Therefore, you see the old witch has to drum up something new to keep the money rolling in. Numbers are down, people leave, kids grow up and run like hell. This is my take on things an I am sorry its so long. Copenhagen

Ahh, Camp Day's Inn... Fresh coffee not manure. Birds tweeting... WG, I'm with you!!! JT

Actually, this theology was not taught across the board. I don't know what was taught in CF&S as I never took the class. My husband who had, never suggested that it would be good for me to do so. When this sexual behavior became public, whole branches left when it became apparent that leadership was not going to address these issues with the rank and file. People who stayed decided they wouldn't believe the accusations, or that the accusations didn't matter. Once we were gone, it was clear from the occasional letter from headquarters that things had definitely taken a turn for the worse. It was after one homophobic rant that I mailed headquarters and asked them to remove us from their mailing list. We have had no further contact. While we were involved, there was not any suggestion that sex outside of marriage was a good thing, with the exception of one instance. I found out a girl had been seduced by a WC grad and was involved in a sexual relationship - until she took the class - after which he promptly dropped her because she had become his "sister in Christ". I confronted the young man and was told by him that people were supposed to do "anything it takes" to being people to the Word. I went to the Limb leader and asked him if this was sanctioned behavior, and he assured me that it was an isolated incident. My husband, who had been WoW and an AC grad, was not aware of any of this behavior. It appears that certain practices in WC were designed to find out who was susceptible and exploit them, because there were WC who never had any idea this stuff was going on. Several WC admitted to indulging in very heavy petting, which, by their accounts, was considered an acceptable sexual outlet. But again, this was not something taught across the board. I believe there were 2 major types of people in TWI. The first type were the ones who hung on every word that leadership spoke and devoured all the teaching, attended all the classes, and felt the need to go WoW and enter the WC. The second type found the PFAL class "useful" for providing a systematic approach to the study of the Bible. Most of the people I knew were the second type, including myself. I believed that as long as one stuck to the system taught in PFAL, one could keep from getting sucked into wrong teaching that was harmful regardless of the source. I found that doing so required a limited level of commitment to the organization, which was frowned upon, but not impossible. I noticed in about 1981 that people started paying more attention to leadership and not paying attention to leadership's movement away from its own principles of study. I started noticing more of a sheep mentality. Around that time, I also started getting bored with the teaching, so for me that boredom made it easier to ignore the teachings. There isn't much that stands out to me as being particularly useful other than "learn to read what's written on the page" and "context". Beyond those 2 things, the whole thing was (what I thought at the time) an attempt to be scientific and intellectual in the approach to Scripture that bordered on the inane. I freely admit that I appreciated TWI for the system of study until recently. As I get more into systems of study, I have found that all systems are based on a set of premises and those premises are subject to bias. The further I move away from systematic theology, the more ridiculous I believe it is.

as long as the stank and file can sit around pretending they are the light of the earth and they can look down on everyone else, judging our every decision, they will keep doing it.

Hel freaking lo. Where are the insurance companies lobbying? What a joke. It would be vewwy intewesting to make a note, or maybe two, of the politicians in district of criminals with interests (the operative word here) in insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies.

I still have an old Good Seed cassette tape. All of my children still remember words to those songs. Have not played it for some years. Plugged it in the other day and the boy sang the words. I was equally amazed that I found a cassette player. I love that tape because it reminds me of sweet innocent times. Like some have said, before it became managed or controlled.

If LCM were president of Home Depot, he would probably declare half the employees as being homos and then close half the stores...

Trust and obey, I am a little confused on the logos and rhema. I think if I have a better understanding of that I might understand what you are saying better. I've heard other preacher's teach (Joyce Meyer, notably) that love is really not a feeling per say, however I know I do feel love, for my mother, my dog even! But I can kind of grasp what you are saying, I just need a better understanding on the logos and rhema. mark and geisha you both raise more questions than answers for me now, LOL! The scripture presented is something I am reading in my own versions of the bible. This is going to take some time. Jeff you are right about Michael the archangel, how he even won't rebuke the devil himself, but use the Lord's name instead I believe? I really appreciate the answers and input here, it's just going to take me a bit to go through all the scripture and try to get some sort of a conclusion, if there is one at all.

Interesting question Rottiegrrl! It's been a while Mark. Nice to see you around again. It seems to me that when Jezebel was told that dogs would poop her remains out in some field that because of her persistent murdering and other evils she was definitely at the point of being so bad that the question of whether or not God loved her seems moot to me. Much more so since "the father of lies" end has been foretold many, many times in the scripture. But since in TWI twisted and insane bastards have taken it upon themselves to deal out themselves what can be only described as a wannabe version of the Lord's vengence that this whole topic may be more than a little touchy for many of us. But I do believe that even though the devil's end is clear to me, that since Michael himself doesn't throw railing accusations in the devil's direction that we should somehow manage to show similar restraint. If I wasn't committed to the idea of former TWI leadership turning to live in a healthier mindset than the old ways (so-to-speak) that they learned from Wierwille that I wouldn't do them the courtesy of pointing out that they were twisted and insane bastards at all.

If I remember correctly... VP was supposed to be an apostle. New light for THAT generous. Didn't actually mean it was new. Could have been lost. They left photocopied out of the definition but I suppose that's included. :) How about VP the Sequel? Evangelist - wins people for God? Uh, no. LCM drove the whole place away. Pastor - Heals God's people? 0 for 2, so far. Prophet - Man who speaks for God. Seems that one was not working either. Teacher - It's the only one left. Must be it. So I guess he was a teacher? Can the greek work for teacher also be translated "screaming and spitting incoherently?" Just curious. Seriously, I think teacher was the one mentioned at some point. Teaching the new light brought by the apostle. He also liked the number 2. He was supposed to teach and establish what VP stole... uh... revealed. VP was Moses and Loy was Joshua. JT

The minstry that king okie had was the ministry of a buffoon... ...and he fulfilled it nicely.

smirk

All fine reply's, I like the skirt chaser ministry, that is funny !!

Without a support staff he was nothing,Thats what brought him down so quickly, His support group (Rosie,Donna)betrayed him.Where was the big fight?He wimpered away with his tail between his legs.

When he talked about operating "all 9" all the time, he was clearly delusional.

I think lcm fancied himself a prophet, evangelist, pastor... what were the others? whatever.

I agree. It was like I remember Vic saying, that a prophet was a difficult man to be around. And everything I remember about LCM was difficult and the other choices did not feel like they fit. And last, my memory is blank on anything he propheted about about. Anyway, I will be able to sleep tonight without really knowing.

Funny that the last entry was on my birthday. Last year, I received this book for my birthday from a friend (also former wayfer). I decided to list it on ebay and did a couple hours ago. Starting bid is .99 but I believe it will go higher than that. I pray that whoever gets it, takes it to heart, reads it, and passes it on to others as I did.