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Hi Taxidev! imho, the entire “Biblical” and doctrinal underpinning Of TWIt’s private interpretation is based on the FALSE PREMISE (logical fallacy) Of dispensationalism. This was actually a worldwide “revival” of accepting the Bible is inerrant and perfect as written. Initiated in the first half of the 19th century by Schofield and his disciples. Then, folks like Bullinger and others systematically developed it to the point where, by the 1920s, here in the USA it had a major doctrinal influence on the early 20th century fundamentalist revivals. Wierwille completely and unabashedly claimed Bullinger’s works as his own. He claimed he had never heard of ole Ethelbert until 1955, when Dr. E.E. Higgins in Chicago, took his piffle class and told him, “you teach like Bullinger writes” and sent him all of Bullinger’s works so ole dic could “read them for the first time”, which he said validated and verified ALL the research he had done and put into Piffle! LOL! Surprised?? That’s one of my major beefs with TWIt, CES, STFI, TLTF, and the rest of the TWIt-lite cults. This insidious doctrine lays the greatest importance upon the Pauline Epistles, basically consigning Jesus Christ to nice stohrees in the Gospels and, even though “it’s Christ in YOU the hope of glory”!, their Jesus is absent, sitting at the right hand of God twiddling His thumbs until the trumpet sounds! This puts the emphasis on an Apostle instead of his absent Lord, which then makes the Apostle more important than his own Lord! It also limits the King of Kings and Lord of Lords to OUR believing instead of the very active presence He is to millions of Christians who never heard of dispensationalism and could not care less about it. That’s why dictor spread the word that he was the greatest teacher since who? Jesus? Nope! Saul of Tarsus! The new light giver to his generation just like dic claimed to be for the 20th century generations! THAT was the greatest secret in the world, not “Christ in you”. As I said on Jalvis’ thread, it is man-made, dead doctrine, in no way Godbreathed. It is false. And, it is a core part of the TWIt lure to their version of it in their “rightly dividing” of all scripture, and the mog-hood of dictor paul They are completely close minded to any other possibilities, to the point that Schoenheit no longer either considers nor responds to ANY criticism or questioning of his work. Sound familiar. Jalvis wastes an entire 20 hours on this falsehood in his End Times dog’n’pony show. Until you are able to NOT look at dispensationalism as the proper way to understand the Bible by knowing “to whom it is written” and you’re willing to see it is a total crock of made up doublespeak, you’ll have “itching ears” for this false doctrine, and miss out on much of what the Bible ACTUALLY says, as well as knowing about the folks who said it. Selah bruddah!

"Hey I just figured out why such the cognitive dissonance over organizing posts in this thread and Doctrinal. The title of this thread is "Wierwille the Indoctrinator" - indoctrinator has "doctrine" as its root word. How is it not going to come up? This thread by nature has elements of TWI and Doctrine in it. Two main words in the title are equally separated down each forum division." And yet, discussions of "indoctrination" can-and do- happen independent of "DOCTRINE." I read an entire book on the subject of indoctrination once ("Factors Used to Increase the Susceptibility of Individuals to Forceful Indoctrination"), and the APA didn't touch on "doctrine" at all. It's like saying that we can't "disagree" (draw different conclusions) without being "disagreeable" (grouchy and ill-tempered) because "disagree" and "disagreeable" have the same root word.

you ain't kidding Waysider - and on the Lawrence Welk Show !!!! great tune...and to think dad, mom & I used to watch that together...."hey pops, don't bogart that joint daddy-o !!!!"...naw - i'm kidding - but I think a little weed mighta helped out our dysfunctional family...just sayin'

My point was and still is that WHEN he was supported by believers, he believed that HE should be accountable to THEM, rather than the back-assward way TWI did it.

Paul was supported by the believers... BUT he believed HE should be accountable to THEM.

Get ready to watch the A&E special program next week on Cults and Extreme Belief. Janja Lalich, Phd is interviewed. She enthusiastically read and blurbed my memoir, Undertow, before I published it, and with this televised interview, she will help more people understand the recruitment process. It airs on Monday, May 28th at 10 pm, then continues at its regular time on Tuesday, May 29th at 10 pm. Here she is in a promo clip: I posted it on my Facebook page You can "like" the A&E page on Facebook. Cults and Extreme Belief About Undertow: “A magnificently written life story that sheds light on the enticing ways of cult recruitment and indoctrination ... An important and must-read book—more gripping than a mystery, Undertow will sweep you away.”—Janja Lalich, PhD. Professor Emerita of Sociology at California State University, Chico, author of Bounded Choice: True Believers and Charismatic Cults

Thanks DWBH.... Yes, TWIt and its offshoots hate this site. None of them have a site where open thought, discussion and questions are in public view. And lately, here at GSC......there has been many new posters coming to this site. Some are second generation kids who were raised in twi and are now grappling with the aftermath of this evolving cult that has consumed their wayfaring parents and relatives. Adding to this complexity are the dozens upon dozens of offshoots with their books and classes claiming that THEY hold the spiritual mantle of truth. Stop the merry-go-round.........and let's take a walk. In the late 60's, several factors emerged that contributed to the rise of cult leaders and those attracted to cults (lifestyle and doctrine). The socio-dynamic of church involvement was changing rapidly. The counterculture of the 60s was a diaspora into the '70s. Technology was advancing......pfal filmed on 16mm, then VHS-format Displaced youth.......searching for meaning, acceptance, belonging Note: One generation of displaced youth propelled twi forward to the cult that it is today. Wierwille cut ties with his Van Wert Church in 1957.......to follow in the steps of many elders, and contemporaries, who traveled across the country teaching at retreats and church-related seminars. Some of the men on this list and the year that wierwille encountered them: E. Stanley Jones (1944), Rufus Moseley (1946), Perry Hayden (1946), Glenn Clark (1948), J.E. Stiles (1951), Starr Daily (1952), and B.G. Leonard (1953). For thirteen (13) years, wierwille was taking notes and gleaning from their ministries......all while he was on Van Wert Church payroll. And, it seems apparent........that Leonard's foundational class in 1953 is what spurred the impetus of wierwille to, finally, break from the denominational structure. From 1958-1967, wierwille taught live pfal classes and Mal George helped teach a handful of them. Going into their tenth year........and the results were miniscule. Nearly 80% of students from all those classes never committed to The Way, Inc. The strategy of reaching church-people "with the word" was a bust......wierwille's independent undertaking was barely paying the bills. And, the BRC was a non-descript rural building with no church bells or steeple........and very few people. So, wierwille threw caution to the wind in 1967.......and stared into intense, glaring lights to teach and film a 36-hour class. Strapped for cash, time and "borrowed" furniture, wierwille was under immense pressure to get this class filmed in an allotted time frame. Crazy as all this was......the confluence of technology, the counterculture hippie movement, and displaced youth provided a wave of interest, excitement and involvement to wierwille's rogue underpinnings. Youth leaders and guitar singers bridged the gap between homiletics and hippies........and the displaced youth soon found a place in an Ohio commune. Note: One generation of youth leaders and guitar singers bridged the gap between homiletics, hippies and holy spirit. Wierwille NEEDED the youth far more than they needed him or his teachings. He exploited their involvement and their vulnerabilities. Many young leaders came and left.......but their zealous involvement and connections brought waves upon waves of other displaced youth longing for belonging. And, even though the zero corps was shut down....... those corps from 1-5 went forward with ten years of solid commitment......AND THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING. In their zeal, WOWs beget more WOWs......and corps beget more corps. The *youth factor* was the driving force of the movement.......not wierwille. And, those early years (1968-1974) at headquarters would infiltrate the minds of scores upon scores of corps grads to follow. The displaced youth had found their "family".......and a place to call home. As headquarters grew into a full-fledged compound......it became self-contained. You didn't need to go anywhere, for anything.......except beer and wine. Heck, even George Jess wine was known to be available to a select few. Hardly needed to leave grounds...... Three square meals a day...... Snack shop......and grilled burgers after meetings In-house entertainment.........indoor/outdoor, bands, dancing, fun Personal services.........haircuts, laundry, taxes, dentist at Indiana Campus Car services.......help with repairs / barter services Who needed much money?........many lived on-grounds and walked to work Note: One generation stayed so long......that they started having babies. Corps were graduating year after year and getting married. By 1976, a second generation of "cult-babies" are being pushed around in strollers. No, it wasn't many at first.......but six years later, by 1982.......babies and strollers were everywhere at corps week and roa. And, why not......the youth had "found a home." The displaced youth had moved from transition and were transferring these perceptions and identities to this pseudo-family. Wierwille addressed aspects of "this place is your home" on many a night owl. I knew many who considered Mrs. Wierwille as the mother that they never had, or knew. Others, whose father or mother died prematurely, took refuge in this "Uncle Harry Nostalgia" and was furthered when the Corps Chalet was being built.......that corps could stay for a couple days whenever they were passing by. Not only the commune lifestyle, but the doctrine.........I remember several times when wierwille taught about ownership versus stewardship. Why do you need to OWN things?.....wierwille claimed. It only slows you down, burdens you with the world. It's far better to have access of the ministry's stuff, than to own something yourself. Here you get to enjoy the way woods, the house of his healing presence, and all......without the expense and maintenance of it. All those years of evolving rhetoric......1) Burn the Ballast, 2) Burn the Chaff, to 3) Uncle Harry Day. Get rid of anything that is holding you back.......record albums, yearbooks, instruments, trinkets/jewelry, worldly books, family heirlooms and keepsakes, etc. Each year, around March 17th..... the communal fire at headquarters would roar as we rationalized the process and felt heavy guilt to obey. The manufactured doctrine and lifestyle was set ablaze......until 1985, when the death of the man and his fire ceased. What started out as a search for meaning, acceptance and belonging..........yielded years of detours, dead-ends and blind alleys. So, yeah........there's a lot to unpack from these cult travels. .

I know, right?!

Thanks for posting this, Rocky. It made me laugh in amazement ... then sigh with disbelief ... the delusions continue ... really, the delusions began with VPW.

This letter from "Way Corps ministers" is so lame that it borders on pathetic. "The future of our ministry is in peril." ...................really? just now you guys figured this out? "Way Corps ministers" that have been indoctrinated for 40 years have little chance of "revival and restoration"........unless outside sources point the way out of the woods. This whole letter is generic mumbo-jumbo........like a Geer-redux (1986). Numbers and symptoms are pointed out, but the root of these problems escape them. Why are corps dropping away? Why are class numbers so anemic? Why is the whole thing so dead? Greasespot Café has been addressing these issues for 17 years........deception, intimidation, indoctrination, exploitation, pharisaic-rule, no accountability, cult behavior, double-standards, arrogant hypocrisy at top levels, liars, abusers, enablers, etc. And, we didn't just spotlight rivenbark's leadership and micromanagement.......here at GSC, we pulled back the curtains to expose wierwille and his pyramid-scheme, in all its treachery. The systematizing of error has taken root for decades. To simply confront rivenbark's tenure, character, and age is abysmal in its approach. Yeah......unless Bob Moynihan, Gary Frederick, Michael Fort, Paul Brooks and others just want to "move the deck chairs around on the titanic"......they need to get serious and roll up their sleeves. The place is a MESS. They need OUTSIDE CONSULTATION AND SUPPORT to even begin the process. NONE of them, it appears, have the wherewithal to break the institutionalization of twi's cult and get back to solid ground of Christian living and revival. Unless their little Q&A accommodates input from GSC-posters, the blind will continue to fall in the ditch.

One of them on my list is my bro-in-law....So I can tell you AT LEAST one or two on that list really haven't changed. I did mention on here a way back, a list/book was being compiled to address decades long areas of concern. I mean, seriously, anyone with any even half a sense of decency have already left and moved on and enjoying their new life of 'abundance & power' I agree whole heartedly with DWBH..the ones calling for 'change', where would they even BEGIN to address the wrongs and hurts THEY THEMSELVES inflicted on those that had sense to leave ??? maybe they could start with just once again, reading Gods' Word for enjoyment and understanding ?? maybe then, verses like this would leap off the pages at them... "therefore if you bring your gift to the altar and there remember your brother has something against you, leave your gift before the altar and go your way and first be reconciled to your brother and THEN come and offer your gift before the altar" - Jesus...Matthew 5:23,24