imbus

CW, Woooh girl. You can talk to me all day long. Well said sweet person...WELL SAID! I know you do not post to get valadation for yourself or your past. Your writings do speak loudly that there was harm done and you openly want to and have healed. Speaking your truth is always welcome in my home. Namaste sweet girl, NAMASTE!

Can I some how clarify something here. For those who "reject VPW, LCM and TWIs teachings... are they no less closer to GOd for it? I'v come to realize that God is to big to fit in any one religion. To place the spiritual solidarity of Gods "truth" in one belief system (TWI) so limits GOD and certainly those that seek after spirituality. IMO It's like telling somone that there is no or limited life out side of the borders of your town. Therefore all that the Cities ,States and Countries has to offer are made null and void because you were told it was bad and evil. So you miserably live within the limits and do the best you can. For me to live and stay in that town was and is amotional, spiritual and personia suiside(?). Amagin the Creator try to do the same. What ever your belief system is that is how big your God will be. I'v allowed no walls or limits to understanding GOD. And I count all beliefs to be a part of mans nessesity for order. But to much order can drive what is spiritually right out the door. Since I've left the teachings of TWI, my relationship with myself and my God has been the best it has ever been. And yes I do read the BIBLE. I just choose not to take it literally but spiritually. :)--> Exie...Good to see you on this post. You too CW. :D-->

Having come on the scene quit late on this thread...I threw out the baby with the bath water, Ivroy soap, Johnsons Baby Shampoo and a delicate wash cloth too. Life is a continual DO OVER. We change, soceity changes and nothing ever stays the same. You can count on it. Because we are continually evolving, I would hope our relationship with God would change too. Apon ditching the baby and bathwater I'v grown to believe The Bible is a Historical book and a book of medaphors. My admiration for Jesus Christ has grown immensely (I'm in love) and "GOD" is...more of a joy to know and our partnership is going well. To hang on to the baby and bathwater for me cruched me in all areas of my life. Glad I took the plung into the real waters of life. :)--> Glad I'm not taking care of someone elses baby and bathwater.

WoW Catcup, I am speecless after reading your experiance. Gives me the willies. Thanks for speaking your truth. Namaste big time. :)-->

CW and Song what horrible stories. This is just ...I can't even find the words to discribe such heinous amotionally abusive events. Who the hell do they think they are? The reality of such actions are incomprehensable. I really hope I see,"what goes around comes around" in my life time with TWI.

Outandabout, Wow girl. I'm glad your o.k and have gotten a life. Boy talk about abandonment. I tell you one thing...reading yours and CW story makes me want to kick somone. I really do hope that oneday there will be a suit to shut TWI down for good. until that day I appreciate you all for comming forward and speaking your truth. Namaste

You know it is painful to read this thread but nessisary. I can't amagin how many of God's wonderful folks are suffering from some form of mental illness as a result of TWI. Would someone do a poll on this? It could be stated, "Since leaving TWI how many people have had to seek professional help either by councel/meds or both.( I don't know how to do polls.) Some of my stuff is directly related to TWI. The worst of it spiritual PTSD. I will not allow my self to get close to any "spiritual organization" and have a HUGE distrust for clergy regardless of the belief system. I'm parinoid as all get out, and really hate that I can't get past the fear. I guess everything in it's own time. I wish there was a class action suite against them for all the mental anguish, shame and hoplessness that spilled into our minds for leaving the mother ship and then having to pick up the peices. Anyway while in the corps folks got sick and believing was the answer in all matters. They had a potential outbreak of strep-throat at Emporia and came close to quarantining the whole campus. Boy was the pressure on to be healthy or else. At the time the answer to mental health issues were diablo spiritos. Talk about the Inquision mind set. That is pretty screwed up. All I know that if you walked away from TWI with minimal mental health issues ...you were very fortunite.

I still feel some amotions when I pass through the states that TWI has property. I think it is the Stockholm Syndrome for me. TWI saved my life at a time when I wanted to end it becauses of hoplessness and helplessess. So I am Thankful for that. BUT there was a time to leave and grow up and I didn't. I was to dependent on them. Soooo.....I'v grown up and no thank you. It had it's place in my life and moving on and continued growing is my journey.

I did not know that HA and Mrs.W knew about the books. I was told they were surprised when I mentioned it to one of their aids. Anyway I find to put so much emphesis on these books again elicits anger within me. I guess for me I put so much weight on the logical/lenear of a matter befor the spiritual/heart of it.

There was a blue book on Orintalisms in the library at Gunnison. The Research Dept. put it together from tape recordings of Bishop Palli and Bo Reard coordinated the efforts of all to put it in book form. It was the size of a high school yearbook. It was a verse by verse break down of the Gosples and all the signifacant orintalisms that ran through each book. Not even Mrs. Weirwille nor Howard Allen were aware of this book. When I was at Gunnison my final year in residence I was assigned to the library to organize it. Instead I read the Gospels and did a word by word notation in my Bible of what I had gotten from Bishop K.C Palli teachings from this book. (There were 3 copies of this book) It was a magnifacent peice of work and the booklet on Oreintalisms doesn't even come close to what was in that big research book. TWI very selectivly choose certain things. I believe there were also a book on some of the other New Testiment books too. My only intrest at the time was the Gosples I think since then they were stolen.

I TOOK THE SCREAMING PAINTING! I confess...It was me... I had to do it...The painting spoke to me...it said..."God told me to tell you"... that Adem does have a navel. Also to menton "leven" instead of eleven deciples. burp,burp,ssiissz, snort,snif,snif,fart,grunt, cough, burp. :P-->

I came to my first twig mtg. by invitation of a 6th corps grad. Miami Fla."76"

Exie, Could you tell us how you really feel? :)--> There is nothing more worse then the scorn of a women!!! :D-->

Well said Satori001...another thing to concider in the qwest for...? Truth? No really, you make a good point! :)-->

I saw the Movie and it changed my perspective on how to make better decisions. It is so full of intrging stuff that make so much sence. Also I don't care who the authors are, I just take what resinates with me and leave the rest. I would hope after TWI that we would have better judgment as to what we swallow and how not to allow any extremes in our lives. I loved the film and would buy it in a heart beat. But that is just me. :D-->

Dearest Chazdancer, Thanks so much for you pursuit of the facts concerning JAL and CES. Reading his responce sounded like "same popsicile... different flavor". It brought a twing of hoplessness to me as I read. I guess because it is so close to TWI I could scream. It is the same empty promises with high energy arousal, using the Bible as the mode of seduction.(Read>>>Patrick Carnes..."The Betrayal Bounds, breaking free of explosive relationships.") The "God" Iv'e come to know is not that complicated, easy to access, and is not limited to a book. WoW, reading Johns responce made me so dang thakful for what I have now. Never again will I offer my spirituality to any human. Thanks Chaz! :)--> What a great berometer of how far I have come. :D--> ;)--> :D-->

Oakspear, You got gonads brother. I know the journey has not been easy but worth taking. Glad you stood your ground. Glad your a part of GS. Always repected your input. Namaste

Shelly, It seemed for me that when I finally let go of trying to be spiritual and let "God" just be... plus allow all avenues/medias to be opened to my understanding,(about God) that is when a healing graceful connectedness with "God" incured. I could not persue God in the realm of Way brain but had to step outside of it. I believe TWI not only put us in a controlled box but also put God there too. It's because we live outside of that box we can finally be our true selves and enjoy companionship with the God we gave our lives to TWI for.

This tread has raised tremendous amount of anger within me. I remember being in a Way home, in the worst part of town, running classes. I could not afford food so I ate day old food from 7-11. That is where I worked at the time. And when there was no stale pop-corn to feast on,I ate MRE's(Meals Ready to Eat) that was supplied by my twig. The town was economically repressed. I would starve befor I would consider not ABSing. And you know.... I did. So this has insited me to ask??? "Where and how was our hard earned ABS spent." Maybe there is a tread on this already.

I went to a graditude meeting this A.M. It is my favorite cause it's focus is on graditude. The group I attend is non-judgemental and fun loving bunch of folks that are managing their lives through 12 steps. I laugh my a@@ off every Sunday about the stories of hope. So many share in a humorous way and you walk out of the meeting blessed and supported. I quiet going to Thursday nite closed meetings cause the women that attend are therapist in recovery. So the flavor is more of a "we will fix you/your not being honest/intervention" therapy session. It has no place in a Bill W. meeting. I attended AA for 3 months befor I got sober. It was the best neturally spiritual place I could fine and feel safe. I liked that there was no religious overtones. It afforded me the time I needed to heal and find my own way spiritually . So in all organizations you have the good and the not so good. I found what fit for me and am one thankful alcoholic.

Ozzie, Many women have spoken candidly about their experiance of sexual abuse via TWI and was met with doubt,critisim and some down right hurtful words. It was not from the majority of the male posters but a select few that made it clear that we were liars or brought it on by our own behavior. Those men have never been in our shoes and will never understand the mind and actions of a women. Because of the few, I for one would never speak of a thing so intimate, publicly. I'v learned my lesson well, that not all folks here are recovering from Way Brain and put the burden of proof,"if I didn't see it than it is not true" logic on you. I say this to give you an idea of why it is a touchy subject. There are male posters who out of respect for the females really do a wonderful job of being gentle and protective in their post concerning sex. Knowing that it might trigger others, they keep it in GP-13 rating. I find some of their comments hysterical and non-offensive. I do enjoy a little ® myself. But like CW said, If you mention anything it can go down hill real fast and who wants to be a victim/volunteer to that. I guess it is an excepted fact that if you want more than what GS will allow, you go somwhere else.

Since I'v been in the mental health profession I bring it up when relavent. It's a wall breaker to folks who have been spiritually abused and are having problems with the 12 step program. To share my experiance somehow encourages some folk to take a risk on step 2.

I don't read the BIBle(way brain), I don't trust anyone that does, don't like crowds, very cautious of male athority, refuse to discuss religion (will talk about spirituality), get very anxious when micromanaged, have a weary eye for those that are overyly positive and refuse to dressup when I do attend church. On the other hand "religion" has pushed me to think for myself, trust my inner core, feel comfortable reading other material other than Christian, work on my confidence, set strong limits and boundries, not second guess myself and has opened up a rainbow of spirituality to me. So as much has been spoiled much has been gained.

When I was in Bible Collage back in the 70's, the president and founder of that collage invited Madalyn Murray O'Hara (Atheist) to debate on the existence of God. The day and time was sceduled and the debate was on. Well, they spared back and forth for a good hour or so and that was it. In my opinion the only resolve was that egos got inflated on both sides. She boosted about logical evidence, facts here and there and how "religion or the belief in a God",was a man made belief system. She made many good points. On the other hand for those that belived in the Bible, thought that her opponet was well spoken and that he presented a good case for Christianity. They both walked away with a hug and a "we'll see" smile. Since that time I'v realize that debate is good. That both sides has the oppertunity to present the facts to an audiance that would be willing to listen. Here at GS we have lived both sides of the debate one way or another. So we all know how the debate will end. Hopfully better informed. But honestly to debate VPW and TWI is pretty futtle on this forum. What is the point? When I made the observation of inflated egos, the minister struted aroung like a peacock in full bloom, impressed with himself. Making remarkes about an after meeting that took place with Madelyn. Words were exchanged in private. He preceeded to tell us what was said, I do not know if it was the truth but we where at his feet believing it as so. What was said was insignifacant but his display of arrogance was not. It's obivous that LLPOF has sparked some anger. I don't know if he lacks wisdom in his communication skills or what, but none the less he has provoked a few. And there has been a responce in kind. I like what Shaz has said. What is realistic and what is not. So I think the debate that LLPOF has thrown out to us good folks is pointless. So my question is why do we, you or me get so riled when somone comes along with insults and a different way of thinking? For me I just consider the source. For that debate back in the 70's, it taught me to consider the source. Do I like being called a liar...NO, but in all things I concider the source. The only source that has any weight at all is my higher power.

That settles it... I'm walking.