T-Bone

not saying i have the answers - these are just some things i wonder about whenever a discussion gets into the love sinner/hate sin thing.... does the catchphrase "love the sinner but hate the sin" have any scriptural basis? The gospels make note of Jesus' association with sinners. What was his position toward unrepentant sinners? Psalm 11:5 NIV says The Lord examines the righteous, but the wicked, those who love violence, he hates with a passion.....so if we're made in the image and likeness of God - - is that possibly the key feature that enables not only self-examination [an effective and sometimes painful function of our conscience] but also gives us the capacity to hate an evildoer. Furthermore - is it reasonable to assume that this hatred may possibly be following some godly parameters already built-in by the Creator in designing creatures who have some characteristics similar to Himself.... ~~ sometimes i get sick and tired of religious talk that seems to separate the sin from the sinner in an almost slight-of-hand fashion painting up the sinner as if THEY are the victim in the situation [sorta "the-devil-made-me-do-it" syndrome].....imho it's a smokescreen to hide the fact that they are the AUTHOR of the sin - they are the culprit in the situation.... ~~ check out how Paul loved the sinner but hated the sin in I Corinthians 5 - he basically advised the church to throw them both out! ..... ok, ok - - i also have to mention it appears this excommunication was not only for the good of the local church but as you'll find in II Corinthians - it was instrumental in causing this same sinner to do an about face. ~~ edited for a very good reason .....i'm sure i'll think of one....

2 classes - wolves & sheep i understand.....i never looked at it that way.....i tend to look at TWI as made up of 3 types: predator, facilitator and prey. i'm thinking the facilitator would fall into the sheep category if we're classifying people by their predominantly good intentions. according to Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary a facilitator is one that helps to bring about an outcome by providing indirect or unobtrusive assistance, guidance, or supervision.... i believe i was a facilitator in that i supported TWI financially and promoted their classes, events, and programs - and i did all that thinking i was truly helping the folks i served. in one sense i was a sheep - victimized by TWI - having my life dominated by their agenda - my time, energy, resources and money siphoned off by these parasites. I'm thinking of a line in the movie "Chicken Run" , ".....but i don't want to be a pie..." but in a weird twist of the game, i also unknowingly helped those creeps maintain their predatory process - i.e. i was a facilitator. i dunno....maybe there's something of the hireling mentioned in John 10 that is applicable. i got something out of serving TWI - i never was paid, but getting the ego stroked, recognition, feelings of belonging to a family, thinking my life....all that i did was truly meaningful, and tallying up all the rewards i imagined i would get in heaven can keep one going for awhile. ~~ edited for the editorially impaired.....like myself

excellent points, CMan .....and yup!

yup - i agree some great thoughts on this thread....much of what 100% shared rings true for me too....and similar to Waysider, a girl i was dating got me into the class. ~~ my little pop-psychology theory on people is that we are all driven by a variety of basic needs, desires, etc. - but mapping out how to achieve them may turn out to be a very complicated process. i took the class in 74. what got me interested in it and getting more involved with TWI after the class [as best as i can remember] was the attraction i felt toward the girl i was dating.being that young i don't recall having many - if any - goals in life. ~~ why i stayed in.....in retrospect [referring back to my basic needs/mapping out paradigm] - somewhere along the way of my TWI involvement, my best guess is that i adopted goals, desires, ideals, etc. that were in the constant stream of BS flowing from TWI [whether subliminally or most of the time overtly]. ....not only that - TWI was "gracious" enough to supply a new map and anything else i would need for my journey. need a moral compass? here you go.....need to know what to pack for your journey? forget about it - just believe God [translation = learn to mooch off others]. .....but wait before you decide to order their map - there's more! ....other mechanisms are in place, that operate below the surface to ensure you'll stay on their map. There's a variety of techniques that sneak in below your radar - manipulation, deception, coercion, fear, guilt, shame, etc. ~~ i left in the turmoil surrounding Passing of the Patriarch.....many others did too, around that time ......i think we all witnessed such a serious malfunction in TWI's machinery that had reliably maintained a tightfisted control on folks - and it made a lot of folks step back and maybe for the first time seriously doubt or question "....the accuracy and integrity...." of the organization. ....maybe many of us started reviewing some of our goals and mental maps of how to achieve them and said "hmmmmm, wait a minute - where was i going? where did i want to go? where am i now? how did i get here?" ~~ ....and yes - it's MUCH MUCH better since i moved on from TWI....now i am very aware and involved in drawing my own map and i get to decide what i need on this journey.

it means you can take him off the lift list now

i sure can relate to your posts! roads not taken....bad decisions....bad attitudes....mistakes....i had a problem with depression before joining TWI....[oh and by the way, certain things and TWI are a bad mix if you know what i mean]... soooooo anyway , my first session with a shrink years after leaving TWI - balling my eyes out as i unloaded all the mental baggage - he says to me - and mind you, i'm waiting for some profound words of wisdom, some complicated psychological mumbo jumbo to explain how screwed up i am - and all he says is "you've gotta stop beating yourself up over this stuff".......Damn! that's the best darn medicine that money could buy! And thank God insurance covered it. .....as far as dwelling on roads not taken, regrets, failures, mistakes, etc. it can drive you KERAAAAZY if you don't stop thinking about it. ....."you wonder what you can say to your people at a time like this...." well, i'll tell ya - i am so freakin' thankful i can think whatever i want about my past!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i ain't got no pontificating nazi over me anymore - trying to make me feel guilty!!!!!!! wha-whoooooooo! Freedom baby!!!!! forgiving myself.....accepting myself - yeah, that's the ticket!

i would like to revise my reply on your question "did it change the world?" to yes - - - imho, the PFAL and TWI "revolution" usually have a negative impact - transmitted outward from each follower - in a rippling effect, like the waves from a turd hitting the water.... ...seriously, think about the alternate decisions made, change in plans, the sacrifices, the roads NOT taken, other lives not touched etc., by folks because of their getting involved in a life-dominating organization. What valuable....positive, contributions to the world were NEVER made by folks who got talked into dropping out from the world! ....and i'm not even thinking we've missed the next Einstein, Mother Theresa, etc. although that's certainly possible judging by the caliber of folks at Grease Spot - i was thinking more along the lines of how normal, honest, hard working folks do so much for their community and provide a strong home life for raising more of the same! guess that's why most folks around here seem to be making up for lost time now - - let's keep on with da keepin' on! Gawdf! PFAL/TWI - - - what a serious detour during life's journey....amidst all the potholes and bridges out on the detour they should at least post signs all around "Your Abundant Sharing Hard at Work" Man, i thought of another stupid thing - speaking of detours - how i bought into the bunk about getting the word over the world is the only thing worthy of my time/energy/money. Gag!!!!!!!!!! "Must be something wrong with our scale of values" yup - TWI's scale of values.....Heck, what's wrong with putting my family first, raising good kids, doing an honest day's work?!Yeah, i'm changing the world, alright - - but it's one T-Bone at a time. .....and since there's only one of me i guess i've got my lifetime goal all mapped out. ~~ edited for theatrical version....look for the interactive director's cut on Blu-ray

[...there's probably enough crap to go for 100...] 11) PFAL takes the place of the absent Christ [since PFAL = "The Word"] 12) the Bible interprets itself 13) the unforgivable sin 14) the 5 things you must know in order to receive anything from God 15) the law of giving & receiving 16) the great principle [God who is spirit teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit, and your spirit teaches your mind; then it becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act] 17) God will always tell you first, but if you don't have your "ears" on you'll be hearing from heaven another way 18) 10 commandments and the gospels were not written to us 19) anything done in the love of God is ok 20) the Lock Box 21) no degrees of sin - all sin is the same 22) sin minimized to broken fellowship .....that's all i've got for now since i'm just going by "first thought"

i agree with you - maybe i didn't get detailed enough on the countless alternate courses that could be taken by individuals - if they were not under the tightfisted control of an abusive and life-dominating organization. For example - i really got into reading the Bible especially the gospels after i took the class and began buying various research tools like an interlinear Greek text and a critical Greek text. But i remember my Twig leader discouraging me from going so gung-ho on Bible study when i should be spend more time reviewing PFAL material. What if there wasn't all the manipulation and controlling going on to keep people focused on PFAL. And what if i said "Hey, i bought Bullinger's "How to Enjoy the Bible" and prefer it to PFAL. And i'm not crazy about the manifestations either." Sounds like a crazy scenario crazy - BUT - imagine the variables - the changes - people leaving TWI - morphing TWI - whatever - if PFAL and vp were not so revered. ~~ i also agree with what you're saying about the poison-generating virus that created TWI. that would have to go. imho, that's why i haven't heard much good coming out of any of the offshoots & splinter groups.

Was it a movement? Not in the normal sense – unless you want to count a bowel movement by someone who was so full of $ hi+… …..filled to capacity? Nay, brethren he was filled to overflowing! Of a truth, yeah verily, amen and a men's room. ~~ Maybe I'm wrong - but I thought a movement is when folks with a common ideology work together for the same goal or goals. In that regard the "PFAL Revolution" or anything generated by TWI for that matter is the exact opposite. So rather than PFAL/TWI starting from a grass roots level [a movement arising from a certain group of people], it was a subversive plot to overthrow the lives of unsuspecting souls on life's journey. Not sure if that's the best choice of words – since "subversive plot" implies that there is deliberate and malicious planning involved to transform an established order. I just won't attribute to vp and the other bozos that much intelligence nor demonize them by painting them up as evil incarnate [although that is tempting at times]. This has been discussed on other threads – such as vp hijacking the Jesus movement. Imho, the PFAL/TWI "revolution" – or "subversive plot" was really a mutating virus – an ever-changing pathogen that causes a variety of diseases in each host…..a pathogen that arose from the heart of a certain ego-centric, sociopath, parasite-like predator with delusions of grandeur – vp. Did it change the world? Doubt it. Did it change me? Yup – several times over, as a matter of fact. Change #1: Initial change was the gradual absorption of the TWI mindset after taking PFAL. ~~ Change #2: Then the metamorphosis was ramped up at an alarming rate when I went into the corps – which was a methodical procedure for suppressing my individuality [the corps program…the environment…uhm…the whole sub-culture is really an ongoing homogenizing process that ensures the continual maintenance of your personality makeover…er…uhm making sure it sticks]. I can still see the poster hanging on a hallway wall during my first semester: the world out the Word in ~~ Change #3: The turmoil surrounding the reading of Passing of the Patriarch threw a wrench in a dusty little used contraption – aka my brain. So many questions bubbling up….doubts….observations….feelings….frustrations….fears….worries…concerns…Am I entertaining devil spirits for thinking these things? Am I tripping out? This was an unwanted change at first. Because it was…..scary. I mean certain thoughts and questions were coming on so strong and so fast and they'd lead to other ideas – like I said…scary. Feeling a little like Bruce Banner when he got upset [ok, cue the visual aid - ] and turned into the Hulk. Not saying I became a super intellectual – just trying to describe the, at first, fleeting moments of clarity and awareness - going from a brain-dead corps guy to a person with a somewhat normal functioning mind. Maybe it's something about the indomitable spirit of man – when given half a chance will always strive for freedom. ~~ Change #4: I'm happy to say this continues to be an ongoing process. It's been said whatever doesn't kill you will only make you stronger. Maybe there's something to that. I broke my left hand in a truck rollover. I am right handed. A curious thing – after therapy and time my left hand is now stronger than my right. Hopefully, I am a wiser, more discerning, compassionate person after surviving my stint in TWI. ~~ Something else I think of about this topic. What IF – and that's a big IF - maybe I better underscore it …..what IF TWI wasn't a totalitarian form of government. What if there had been a give and take at all levels – maybe more of a democratic approach. Maybe some things would have turned out different. Sounds far-fetched? Yes I know – BUT – I mentioned this on another thread - consider an incident from I Corinthians 5, where Paul called on the local church to levy a very harsh judgment against an immoral person. It was over a sexual scandal so vile that even their pagan neighbors were kinda freaked out about it. The local church had done nothing about it – maybe even prided themselves over how loving and forgiving they were as to minimize this awful sin. The Corinthian church followed Paul's instructions to excommunicate the offending party as a disciplinary action which not only protects the church but as a means to bring about a heartfelt change in the sinner. There have been brave souls who have had the nerve to confront vp, lcm, and others over the years on various issues – I mean serious issues – like adultery. This is not common knowledge to the general TWI populace – not even to most corps. It is common knowledge at Grease Spot….well, the bozos stayed in power and you don't ever hear about those who had any kind of face-to-face with the aforementioned bozos… How does this relate to the I Corinthians 5 passage? Well, vp et al remaining in power, TWI becoming a life-entangling nightmare for followers is what happens when sick deranged lying thieving weaselly leaders go unchecked. To put it in secular terms – that's the reason we have laws, a judicial system, support groups like Alcoholics Anonymous, and mental health professionals in this country. Too bad TWI is a world unto themselves.

Understood…i think maybe we all tend to look at our PFAL/TWI expereriences in ever-changing ways [as we continue to process stuff] and I think that's a therapeutic thing to help us: garner wisdom, deepen understanding, accept our failures – mistakes - lapses in judgment, heal, grow stronger, forgive & reconcile when necessary/appropriate, bring closure, isolate & eliminate mental baggage, etc. In regards to a food metaphor – I can see the passages of the Bible used in PFAL as the starter ingredient, but after the Amazing Alchemist [aka – AA, just like the program he should have joined] adds assorted food coloring, addictive chemical additives, and most importantly industrial strength brain stupefying substances – whereas the final product that is totally consumed….uhm….make that absorbed by a "good" PFAL grad – as you say – is no longer milk. ~~ The PFAL material was initially portrayed to me as an aid to study – I'm thinking of vp's remarks in the PFAL book/class about him not teaching us the Bible from Genesis to Revelation – just the KEYS to understanding the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. It gave me the impression the class material was an unbiased tool for unlimited access into all the information the Bible had to offer, covering all aspects of life and with unlimited benefits to boot! [......at this point i feel the need to address any dissatisfied-but-afraid -to-admit-it PFAL grads out there who still hold on to some glimmer of hope that the greatest cargoes of life are just waiting to come to port over their quiet seas. Friend, are you limiting vic? You must be if you have not received what the class promised. When you confess what vic told you to confess you will have a Power For Abundant Living advertisement written all over your face. The renewed subscription to the Way magazine is the key to having a perpetual advertisement for Power For Abundant Living on your coffee table - next to the cornucopia and Blue Book vp tells me so....] imho, PFAL becomes a mindset-forming, personality-suppressing, and life/time/money-sucking parasitic mechanism dependent on the absorption rate of each student. I'm a technician by trade – and appreciate the help of a good tool. One of the pet phrases I've heard about that is in the hands of a qualified technician a tool becomes an extension of the tech. An extension, yes - but inseparable? No! I think something different happens with most PFAL grads – the tools or aids of PFAL become absorbed – a la the Borg collective "resistance is futile" style. Or I and my tool are one [sounds like a line from a porno flick]. As a technician, I can replace a tool if it gets broken, or there's an upgraded version or I find another tool more effective. Not so the PFAL grad – imho, they cease to see the tool as something separate from themselves. I mean the TWI mindset feels so good - it fits like hands in a pair of handcuffs. In other words, any perspective, interpretation, "thought" process, option, choice, alternative or application other than what is sanctioned by TWI is strictly taboo! It's just out of the question! Because you are now a PFAL grad....dedicated to a lifetime of working the PFAL material so as to master it....to become one with it....to become a lean, mean, pontificating machine....will the "real" you please stand up and take a bow....oh, i see.... you're already standing up...and appear to be sleepwalking. ~~ ….another metaphor..…it was sorta like going to a swimming instructor who advertised he could teach you not only how to be a good swimmer but how to walk on water too! It turns out – the instructor wasn't a very good swimmer himself…and I never was able to walk on water either – even after faithfully following his instructions…..week after week, month after month, year after year…what do you think my brain looked like? What do you think my wallet looked like?.... Awfully skinny.... Oh yeah, I can see the writing on the billboard over yonder – millions now smoking….crack! Oh sorry, that's just an ad for the Rock of Ages. ….in many ways I feel I've had to learn how to swim all over again – not just in Bible study but in the practice of my faith and general outlook on life. Also - it has been a LOT of HARD WORK to remove the PFAL-colored glasses. Oh well, I've done a lot of other stupid things and time & life wasters on my journey – I imagine I'll make a few more. Hopefully, I've learned a few things from experiences and won't make those same types of mistakes again. ~~ Another way I look at my PFAL experience – if I have to speak of anything good coming out of it – is that at least it got me into checking out the Bible. I was a Christian before I took the class – still a Christian now and continue to enjoy reading the Bible for enjoyment & personal growth. It's been said in one of those cult books that cults are the unpaid bills of the church – which I take it to mean many churches have failed to teach their flocks basic Bible doctrines & good study skills. And on that note I'd also like to add, unless God Almighty Himself is speaking ex cathedra on the subject [and I mean that literally – so, I'm not referring to any human who thinks they're God's mouthpiece with a microphone] the content is always suspect of personal biases & error…….And since I haven't yet seen my Lord on any TV broadcast, video tape [VHS or Beta ], DVD, basic cable, HD TV or satellite program [spanning my entire career of TV watching thus far] I figure it would be best to have my critical thinking cap on no matter who is talking. ~~ oh yeah....getting back to the topic Wierwille's Faux Christianity....maybe some truth in advertising is in order. "unfit for human consumption" "the theologian general has declared PFAL hazardous to your spiritual growth and has been shown to f U [ K up lives in laboratory grads" "No REAL doctor would ever prescribe PFAL as a cure for anything" ~~ edited for a PG-13 rating

that makes sense....... occasionally vp referred to his favorite porn video - the women with the dog

i don't even think it was milk....more like gut rot - and it made one painfully sick after a long binge - i know.....i've been to those weekend in dah verds...gag! the original mythological text of vp's pet phrase reads as follows: i wish i were the cult leader i know to be

sometimes i hear a reality-check voice over when certain people are recalled.... ."i wish i were the cult leader i know to be."

yup - that's exactly what i investigated - if you open the attachment in my above post you'll notice the letterhead says "Moody Correspondence School" - and that's my handwritten note near the bottom of the letter where I state - quoting vp to Elena: "[compare page 175 of The Way, Living in Love by Elena S. Whiteside "I took everything I could take at the Moody Bible Institute too, through their correspondence courses"]" ~~ Ladies and gentlemen - someone has got to be a liar....while i'm at it quoting PFAL one-liners - maybe it was this little discovery of vp's lie about taking Moody correspondence courses that really stoked the fires under my critical thinking skills - leading to a rapid demise of my TWI mindset.....guess it was like vp's argument in PFAL - if God lied to us in one verse - then you might as well chuck the whole thing away - oh brother, really really had a hard time believing ANYTHING vp wrote was true or that he was up front about how he figured it out.... and speaking of my first year or so after leaving Victorville - i found a sheet of paper with a bunch of points, doctrines, issues, etc. i had put together on what i wanted to look into further. i think it may have been around the time frame of discovering the Moody correspondence courses lie that i jotted down one word on that sheet "plagiarism" ......i wondered if this guy lied about correspondenc courses - what if he lied about all this stuff he claimed HE found in the Bible and/or that God taught him....

I've shared this before on another thread or two.... not long after i left TWI i started looking at PFAL material with a more critical eye - one of the ways i'd do this was by reading commentaries and systematic theologies. while i was getting into vp's study of who is the word and technical details like the greek word pros - a question kept gnawing in the back of my mind - how could vp who i assumed had all this knowledge of NT Greek could be so far off in his explanation of how pros is to be understood in John 1:1 compared to the general consensus of all these other books i read. it bugged me enough to make me call Moody Bible Institute and check out his claim in the book the way: living in love. after the lady told me in searching their records that they could NOT find any record of vp completing a single class there i asked her if she would send me that in writing. i've also posted this letter in my gallery awhile back. ok ....if you want to give vp the benefit of a doubt - then maybe he took everything Moody had to offer - he just didn't completely, completely absolutely complete any of the courses ....i wish you could read it in the original mythological text - it's just so so and reads "ok, so i made it all up."

doah! you mean.....vp plagiarized that too?!!!!

a few things come to mind about your thread topic.....looking back, i tend to think the major issues with leadership's course of actions were their decision-making model and hidden agenda. 1. the decision-making model: some leaders whom I have worked under gave me the impression they used the same decision-making process as modeled by vp himself - that being "I-so-walk-with-God-honey-that-I-don't-have-time-to-worry-about-making-wrong-decisions" mentality....flip-flopping on decisions can always be excused as "circumstances have changed so the revelation has changed". 2. the hidden agenda: over the years since i left - i've come to learn about TWI's true colors. imho i don't think any of the top leadership [past or present] had a single altruistic bone in their body. So, i tend to look at any program, plan, action, purchase, etc. as something based on their self-centered nature..... i dunno.....the opposite of doing something for the greater good.....maybe a lot of it goes back to the man who wrote the book on hidden agenda - vp [see above point # 1]........after all, vp had a clever way of making sin legitimate. giving the idea that one can become so spiritual that whatever you do is no longer sin. so imho i don't think we can compare TWI leadership decision-making to a typical corporate or religious situation. i tend to think trying to figure out a rhyme or reason for why they did something is like trying to nail down mercury.

If you do something like that it means you've been in the corps. Don't underestimate the corps program. I think it could have eradicated the last smidgen of soul in even the hardest working man in show business - James Brown - dats riiiiight! the corps program is THAT good!

speaking of Sly....some of Sly and the "Family" at Rock of Ages best loved tunes: I want to take the abundant sharing higher than last week Everybody is a star [as long as they're young & female] M'Lady [of the day happens to be in the sic Corps visiting HQ for my birthday] You can make it if you try [hitching right now, booms quick – and you'd better come back from L.E.A.D with $20 in your pocket.. .gawd bless, you're Corps dammit] Every day people [ask me when am I gonna release PFAL '77 as the new foundational class] Dance to the music [unless you're my boy Loy – I told that idiot to stick to venerating me, ya know his usual "vp & me" shtick] Sing a simple song [and leave all the editing & revising to me – it's a very complicated process to imbue every stinkin' way productions tune with googobs of PFAL references and way-speak; so leave THAT to the master] Hot fun in the Summertime Coach I want to thank you for letting me be my persona ~ ~ edited just B Cuz

yeah - i would agree - tried to say that in my post, about paying attention and being on guard.. .i guess i was thinking along academic lines in my post.. . maybe i could brag about having a masters in BS Detection now. i think developing critical & creative thinking skills is a big deal - but also feel that's something you don't learn in school but through life's experiences.. .and in regards to ex-way folks, maybe for some it was the awakening of those skills that provided the impetus for them to leave.. .if I could name one idea that comes to mind that got me on the road out it was don't be afraid to question anything. I'm thinking it was like that for a lot of folks. You start challenging one doctrine, belief, "principle", etc. - or something about an event, experience, relationship, person or situation just sticks out like a sore thumb, it just keeps eating at you - and if you have the ba11z to let it go unchecked - [i.e quit renewing your mind to it - oh gag me with a spoon why dontcha!].. .a chain reaction starts - the dominoes start falling over into each other - and lo & behold one day you back up and look at the fallen house of cards; and you go "what the he11 am i doing here - this place is just nuts! the bozos in charge are all sick & deranged!" as to spiritual .. .intellectual .. .or some kind of growth - i will say this, my theology has been in a state of flux since I left TWI - and i also have a tendency to simplify things.. .i'm older now and don't care as much for detailed doctrinal arguments - i think i've settled into my own comfortable religion - comprised of the 2 great commandments [love God & neighbor] and the golden rule.. .heck, i think Grease Spot has been a BIG help for my spiritual growth!I have this funny little hunch that maybe I can catch a good glimpse of the spiritual.. .noble.. .profound matters of life by listening to someone with a totally different perspective than mine.

Skyrider, i like your extensive list here.. .it's truly amazing how complicated way world was - not just the convoluted doctrines, but the whole culture.. .and what a bunch of nonsense.. .reminds me of an episode of Seinfeld - i think they were pitching an idea for the show and said it was a show about nothing. That's all TWI 's trappings were - a show about nothing - nothing of any spiritual substance. ~~ Hey, Excathedra! Hugs & kisses from me & Tonto :wub:

Reading this thread reminded me of something from a movie I saw recently. The movie is "Inception" – a sci-fi thriller about a guy who usually steals intellectual property from the mind of someone who is sleeping. Although the big twist in this story is that he is contracted to plant an idea in someone's head – an idea the person thinks is his own and that will influence him to make a major business decision. This could probably get into all sorts of categories how TWI deceived, manipulated & motivated folks – but on this thread I thought of how from my earliest involvement with them, so many ideas were planted in my head – insidious seeds – that would effectively choke out a normal thought process. What I mistook for a blossoming garden of spiritual growth was actually overgrown weeds that obscured the perception of reality. Jumping at any class that became "available" in my area, being excited to go door-to-door witnessing, putting my share of moolah in the cornucopia, all earned me the praise from others of how fast I am growing in "the Word". From the get go, I had the idea that anything TWI offered would put me on the fast track to spiritual growth & fulfillment. That's why I went WOW and then went in the Corps.. . There was only one way to go in this ministry and that's up. …uhm more precisely, climbing the hierarchy of spiritual status. Oh, that's moving up alright – further up the corporate a$ $. But my head was telling me "Look how long I've been in TWI; how much I'm responsible for; how I've been around the man of God; how much I've worked PFAL; how much I've changed." Ugh! Looking back .. . I mean way back – a brief scanning of when I took the class, my years as a cult-gear, the year I left up to now – in many ways is a weird nebulous feeling – similar to what I get sometimes when I feel an ache or stiffness from age and think "Where did my youth go? I still feel like a kid – though now trapped inside the body of an old man." So I wonder – did I learn anything? Have I grown spiritually? Reason tells me I must have – but maybe it's some humbling human safeguard of the brain that tells me I don't know much about anything – so I need to pay attention and be on guard during this journey. Also makes me think how in the he11 did I make it this far? Sorry for rambling here.. .haven't posted in a long time and I know I tend to stray from topics.. .but another thing about this illusion of spiritual growth that I see – is the stark contrast of how we judge growth and change – while we were in TWI compared to how we think now. I think back on all the "deliverance" stories I heard in the ministry. They all sound alike. [speaking of Deliverance – I saw a T-Shirt at a canoe rental place in Gunnison "Paddle faster I hear banjos" – hmmm, that sort of fits here doesn't it?]. The common denominator in ministry deliverance stories is always the same standard – all things TWI is what's good for ya! Everyone thinks alike, homogenized personalities, canned experiences, standardized growth charts – all are a product of the PFAL factory – one of the world's most misleading producers of the Stepford Christians. BUT – here at Grease Spot I have seen such a broad spectrum of perspectives, unique experiences & savvy thought processes by folks who have left Victorville. In an effort to squelch other implanted ideas I'd just like to say that Howdy Doody never took the class and Mickey Mouse is not born of the seed of the serpent.

I think he always had aspirations for a career in modeling.

Great thread! The TWI mindset does a great job of recalibrating our faculty of judgment: I used to worry about the "absent Christ" until I realized PFAL takes the place of the absent Christ. God not spitting in your direction is a bad thing – but – by giving your moolah to TWI you can expect God's saliva. Having a close knit family is nothing compared to letting blissful strangers provide periodic wear and tear on your living room furniture. ….now switching back to cult-free mode… The greatest cargoes of life may come in over quiet seas – but – beware when those pirates at HQ board your ship!