waysider

There's lots of good stuff here on GSC regarding the subject of tithing and how it relates to this day and time. This is one particular area that TWI twisted and distorted to the max. in order to serve their own purposes. I highly recommend looking at some of the articles on it here.

Maybe the problem is not so much a question of whether love is real, but a misconception(foisted upon us by Hollywood) of what love encompasses. We all want to feel loved. Is it possible that's why it felt so good at those early twig meetings when people said, "We sure love ya!!!"? Yeah, they said it, but the evidence was not always there to prove it. Love is not an illusion. Our perception of it can be and often is.(an illusion.)

I have a WT silly-bus here in front of me. This particular one is dated 1974. It is not my original one, it is one that got left behind when my first wife and I went splitsville. It's really nothing more than a corporate structure outline. (With some scripture references sprinkled in for decoration.) There is some comical stuff in it. For example, it says that "the structure of the early church was like a tree- divided up geographically-logical, convenient". I'm no history expert, but that is definitely NOT how the first century church was "organized". There was nothing "convenient" about the way they had to meet. People in the first century met secretly in small groups out of fear of being persecuted. (Of course, that does not negate the value of meeting in small groups.) Then, there is a chart showing the "tree" of the first century church. I gotta tell ya, it's hard for me to imagine how the twig that met in Chloe's house in Corinth had very much, if any, connection( beyond Paul's acknowledgment of their existence) to the so-called "root" in Jerusalem. I don't think you could organize a tree like structure so closely tied together even today with the internet, etc. But, page 10 stresses that the development of a tree like structure is "not new". Now, here's some interesting stuff on the intro page. A twig has 3 or more members and meets nightly or not less than once a week. A branch meets monthly or not less than every three months. A limb meets every six months/ not less than once a year. Trunk---every three years. Root--- Three segments 1. BOT--3 trustees 2. Inter. HQ---head presbyter of each trunk 3.BOD---all head presbyters of limbs and branches plus selected directors of the BOT and Inter.HQ. Meet once every five years How in Heaven's name could this possibly be an accurate replica of "the church" as it existed in the first century? And, where in the world did these specific numbers come from?--Not the Bible, that's for certain. Yeah, I know. Now some joker pops in and says."Ooh, it all came by revelation." Sounds more to me like it came from a "how to" manual on starting an MLM.

Pond That incident took place in 1974 or 75. We had some pretty lavish parties from time to time, also. They were always funded by private benefactors that were recruited by the believers. So you see, it still didn't cost TWI anything if one of these events took place. It was my experience that people who provided funds for such things were often people who had positions of responsibility, such as doctors and bank presidents and that sort of thing. They were usually(at least in the instances I observed) people who knew they could not just up and "go WOW". I think this may have been a way of giving to a cause they believed in because they knew they were tied to their responsibilities. Coffee houses had a very definate purpose behind them. They were designed to bring new people into a non threatening environment. (Like the spider and the fly) There is no question that a great time was had by many attendees. But, if you were involved at a level that went beyond the casual twig attendee(Involved in the actual running of it or performing at it) you were well aware that it was not supposed to be a time for you to let your hair down and just have fun. Its purpose was clearly to bring "newbies" into the fold through the process of assimilation.

According to my Way Tree syllabus, each "twig" is to be self-supporting, self-propagating and self-governing. That doesn't sound like a very accurate description of the tree in my backyard. HMMMMM!-----Come to think of it, it doesn't sound like a very accurate description of the Way Tree either.

Yes, Donnie did teach W&U. My memory of a class by Earl B. are foggy at best. I do remember him doing some sort of "research" and subsequent lectures on the Firmament and the Great Flood. Something about the flood being caused by a tear in the firmament that allowed the flood waters to rush through and flood the Earth.

Could you tell a wise man By the way he speaks or spells? Is it more important Than the stories that he tells? And call a man a fool If for wealth he doesn't strive?

I got assigned to go live, not commute, in an area that was 50-60 miles from home. (By myself, not as a WOW.) I was supposed to run classes and coordinate a couple twigs that already existed. I quit my job and rolled into a very small town with nothing more than my car and a suitcase. Not only were jobs very scarce, but I had to take one that fit the "ministry" hours. The job I found was minimum wage. Money was pretty tight so I took a room in a boarding house. There was one phone in the house and it was not really for the boarders use. Almost any call outside of town was long distance. One day, somebody at HQ called that phone and left a message for me to call HQ, ASAP. I went to the pay phone on the corner and started loading in my coins. I don't remember who I talked to but they told me that Dr. W. and some other VIPs were coming into town in a week. They said I needed to find a meeting place and rooms for, I think, 5 or 6 people to stay overnight. -----ALL FREE!----- Plus, I had to try to promote it on a local level by maybe getting some posters up(That part never happened.) I made arrangements with the lady who owned the house to allow me to use her phone to make calls. The agreement was that I would pay for all of them when the bill came. After countless hours of calling here and there, I finally had what they had requested. The day before it was all scheduled to take place, I got another call informing me it was called off. It cost me almost a whole weeks pay to cover that phone bill. Do you think I ever saw one thin dime of reimbursement? Like Exie says--hahahahahahhahahaha!

The words in bold are mine.

Willingness and ability. Remember that stuff? She was "willing" to apologize because she was "able" to see that she screwed up. I doubt they(TWI) will ever apologize because they are not able to recognize that they were wrong.

Not even the wife? HaHaHa----Just funnin' with ya. Happy anniversary and many, many more!

There was, indeed, a class by that very name. When I took it, Johnny T. taught it live but I'm sure it was on video also. I still have the Silly-bus.(somewhere) Shifra Yes, TWI stands for The Way International. I think it's an acronym that originated here on GreaseSpot 'cause some of us have fingers that like(out of necessity) to abbreviate things. Now you have me on a quest to check that old syllabus and look at that reference you cited.Thanks a lot! :-) Ya know, at one time, I was a "twig area coordinator" because there were not enough twigs in my area to split into another branch. Another time, I was a "zone coordinator" because ------------Hmmmm!------don't remember why. (Except that particular branch was geographically isolated from the next nearest branch and I was the only Advanced Class grad around.) HeeHeeHee---- As if that made me somehow more qualified. So how the heck did those experiences fit with the structure of a tree? Oh, wait! I know. It made me a "sucker".

Hey, dmiller! Just wanted to let you know that my son took your advise to heart and checked out that Yamaha acoustic we talked about awhile back. He just got it about a week ago. It's really nicely made. It's got beautiful tone. It's consistent all the way up the fret board and I, myself, really like the low action. It's a pleasure to play. I think it's really important for a "newbie" to start with an instrument that doesn't "put up a struggle". They have enough to concentrate on without having to figure out an instrument's shortcomings. Thanks again for your recommendation. Waysider ps---- the price was pretty nice, too!

"And the waaaaaalls---------came tumblin' down Joshuaaaaa---------- marched seven times around". Ooops, sorry. I'm just in a musical mood this evening.

Dooj I second that emotion. edited for double post. Ironic,no?

In Cleveland, in the early 1970s, we had both. (twigs and large meetings.) Twigs were often impromptu but had regularly scheduled times through the week. Branch meetings were held every Sunday night. We rented out a large meeting room. Actually, the branch meetings encompassed two branches, Cleveland and Lorain. Simple geography was the primary reason there were two branches instead of one. Cleveland was at the center and Lorain was maybe 20 or 30 miles west. There was also a third area that was about 20 miles east but it never really grew beyond a couple twigs. HQ was always on us to try to get people to let us use facilities for free for classes and branch meetings. Usage payments came from New Knoxville. At that point in time, TWI did not own property other than New Knockwurst. When "newbies" inquired why we did not have permanent facilities, we were instructed to tell them it was because it enabled us to be "dynamic" and go were God instructed us to go. <_<

When I got witnessed to in Cleveland, the spring of 1972, the group of high school kids who witnessed to me talked about "twig". I had no idea what the term meant. At the time, I thought it was perhaps an acronym( like SCUBA is an acronym for "self contained underwater breathing apparatus") Soooooo, the Way Tree already existed at that point in time.( spring, 1972) Also, there was a state news letter called The Buckeye Cambium. In botany, the cambium is a thin growth layer between the bark and the wood. Annual growth rings are a result of cambium activity. The cambium is what causes a tree trunk to increase in diameter. I'm not sure, but I think the limb leader at that time(E@rl B^rt0n) came up with the idea of naming the news letter. It was a pretty good name, in my opinion. International HQ said the name would have to be changed because "growth comes from the root". It was then changed to The Grapevine,(As if that was more botanically accurate )

Maybe WasWay will chime in on this one. A band from his hometown covered it and had a big regional hit with it. Can you condemn a man If your faith he doesn't hold? Say the color of his skin Is the color of his soul? Hint: The band that did this tune originally, spawned some "monstah" guitar players (Yes, that's plural)

HaHa! Kinda reminds me of a prank we used to pull in my teenage years. If three guys were talking, one would casually position himself to the right as another would slowly position himself on the left. When the third, unsuspecting guy was clearly positioned in the center, they would yell: >"Left ball" >"Right ball" "WHO"S THAT (&%$#) IN THE MIDDLE!" ---------------------------------------- Well, OK, maybe it's funnier when your 15.

Hello, It's Me--------Todd Rundgren

The 'needs and wants" thing never made sense to me. You could probably go round and round about what it actually means or about what it was that was actually taught. In my opinion, what is crucial is how the general populace of The Way perceived the concept. In the almost 20 years that I was involved, it was perceived by the people I was in association with, that it meant that your needs and wants had to be in parallel agreement with each other. The idea of them being in agreement with The Word was a foregone conclusion because it was "out of fellowship" to want things that were "off the Word" . Likewise, it was assumed you did not really need anything that was not encompassed in the promises of God. When you stop to think about it, it's really the only way you can legitimize the "red drape" incident. She didn't actually "need" red drapes BUT she did need drapes.(all your needs according to his riches-----) She wanted red ones. (all the desires of your heart---) This was supposed to somehow prove that if your needs and wants were parallel with each other( remember that the "according to The Word" thing is understood.) that your request would surely come to pass as long as you were able to "believe" for it. It's really no different than the "visualization" technique that can be found in any number of "positive thinking" schools of thought. The only thing that sets it apart is the idea that you are supposed to make sure it is covered in "the promises of God" and that it does not contradict the moral principles set forth in the Bible. It still does not make sense. IMO

edited to move to "Cleanliness" thread.

I think if one is going to define and understand Christian leadership , one must first define and understand leadership (Christian or otherwise)

Bolshevik I see your point about the designer not being from the "good old days". It makes sense. Is it possible, though, that someone who was around during the "good old days" made the connection when they saw the photos and jumped on an opportunity to use them in this manner? I don't know. I could be wrong. It just seems too spooky to be a total coincidence.