waysider

OM-----Touché!

Danny------------Whenever I heard VPW teach on the snakes and poison he qualified that it was in the catagory of "if". He would then go on to verbally shred the snake handlers because if they knew what he knew they would know better than to "tempt the lord thy GOD". YUP----- fits like a hand in a wallet!

I haven't been here inaxe world before because I don't play much guitar anymore, although I still have a fender el cheapo acoustic and a Squire P-Bass. Now blues harp, that's my bag. Like Sonny Boy II said, " Don't start me ta talkin' " -----But I digress. I saw the discussion on Jeff Beck and it took me back.It also made me recall Harvey "THE Snake" Mandel and hence the reason for this post. Harvey is back on the road with a project called "Chicago Blues Reunion". All staffed by names that will send you speeding down memory lane. I have the cd/dvd "Buried aAlive In The Blues" and The Snake never sounded better.-----Question ------What's the technical scoop on how he gets that overtone,enharmonic sound that defines his style?

Remember WOODSTOCK #2 where a bunch of corporate "suits" tried to reenact and revisit the original event? --------OH YEAH! ------That worked(not).

A certain limb leader decided that building a root cellar would be a good way to move toward self-sufficiency ( part of that survivalist mentality). He them assigned a crew to oversee said progect. One would weigh nutritional issues while another would weigh regional growing viability and yet another was to develope a catalog and inventory system. He then hired a local farmer to bring in a backhoe and dig the hole in the side of a hill. Having no experience in such matters he was unaware that such an excavation requires structural support. Long story shortened; The first big rain turned the root cellar into a root sepulchre. Noone was injured except for those who might have sustained internal injuries trying to stifle their laughter.

I am fairly certain the year was 1977.--------One Friday evening after evening meal in fellowlaborers we were told were were going to be honored with a special training session which was about to commence immediately. Just time for one cigarette or a trip to the restroom take your pick. This was not optional nor did we know about it when we signed up as has been implied on another thread regarding commitments. The introduction was very positive and laid the groundwork for an enlightening weekend. I do not recall the title of the "class" but it sounds very much like what has been described in the discussions of "momentus". AS the sessions progressed it became apparent we were in for an "I'm going to break you" type of scenario that typifies many peoples perception, or experience in boot camp. The 'instructor' was well known and his initials were J.L. There was screaming, there was face melting and the phrase "I think" was worthy of one very severe verbal lashing. "You either know that you know or your worthless foot doesn't belong here."One night and two long days of this worthless crap. Highlights included being literally locked in the building and made to sit in the dark with a mandate of what seemed at the time like hours. One of our beautiful sisters who was naturally prone to shyness,snapped under the pressure. she was then molded into what I call a Stepford believer and remained that way for the rest of her commitment. She moved on to WC after graduation. If you are reading this,kiddo, I mean no offence. I only mean that we thought you were pretty darn cool just being yourself. Imagine sitting in a locked building in rural America hundreds of miles from home with no way to contact the outside world and ordered to maintain complete silence. This 'class' set the precident for what would follow. One time we were awakened at 3 am and ordered to report to limb headquarters in 20 minutes. It was ahalf hour drive so you do the math. Again we sit in the dark for who knows how long in complete silence only to be told the program was cancelled. Get out when the sun comes up. The sun comes up and we are told revelation has changed : We are to stay but must walk a fine line if we are to continue. GOD is displeased with our past performance. It goes on and on and I hope I haven't bored anyone to tears.

America's coasts will be lashed with storms this year? ----------WOW----------there's some heavy revvy. Now if he had said this is the one and only year storms will NOT lash America's coasts then maybe one might think he's connected, DON'TCHA KNOW.

It all kinda reminds me of that guy on SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE who would say " Yeah----------Yeah that's the ticket!" and expect that would lend credability to his ruse.

" Will this be on the test?"-------------Took pfal/tip in '72-------- tip was then replaced by intermediate.-----Took about 1,653 other classes I probably could easily forget if it weren't for the class materials I still have.------I also took that silly CHRISTIAN COUNSELING that was talked about on the thread about classes.----Here is agreat quote from it " There are some real heart-rendering Psalms of David, When do you think they were written? Do not teach it, we cannot prove it; but there are indications it was during that period of time when he wasreally separated from GOD because of all that stuff with Bathsheba and Uriah."----SAY WHAT!? -------We can't prove it?---------- So why are they even breaching the issue?-----AC in '73 --Fellowlaborers '75 thru '77 ----Divorced/remarried in early '80's. ----------Went through basic core of classes with wife. She never was ready to commit in a large sense ( Did I mention she is brighter than I?)-----Stayed in as twiggies for about 10 years. Do those years count?------drifted away from twig but always sort of felt like I was part of it much like always being part of a family that's hundreds of miles away ------Knew nothing of twi2 until I stopped in here for coffee not too long ago.

I remember hearing VPW on more than one occasion talk about how adultery in the BIBLE had a deeper meaning and was actually a figurative way of saying we were not to have SPIRITUALLY adulterous relations. For example : interacting with anyone involved with any form of what he considered witchcraft, using mind altering drugs, considering the trinitarian theory. In the current vernacular,"sleeping with the enemy" who of course we all knew to be satan. In addition, I recall many TL's, BL's, and even limb leaders presenting this line of thinking as be conveyed to them by VPW. He also made a cognizant effort to show how he thought "fornication" and "adultery" were not to be confused with each other. WOW! the MOG himself is showing us a profound truth that noone has seen for thousands of years! IMHO I think he was throwing up a smoke screen like one of the anti-heroes on a LIFETIME CHANNEL movie of the week. There was nothing profound about it. He was simply setting up an alibi that would excuse his actions. A man of GOD is to be above reproach. He is not only to refrain from these actions he is to live in away that will not even give the appearance of impropriety. It would seem that this would not be too much to ask of someone who represented himself as one who spoke on GOD's behalf as noone had done for centuries. He exploited GOD, HIS HOLY WORD, and THE LORD JESUS CHRIST to satisfy his own needs and greeds. Now that my freinds is what I call ADULTERY.!

Is this what people mean when they say "dammed if you do, dammed if you don't"?

Let me state for the record that, yes, I still speak in tongues even thirty five years after being exposed to it. Noone led me into tongues or gave me a lengthy explanation of it before I did it. I did , however, hear someone say it was the only true way to say thanks to GOD. The situation ,which is to involved and probably boring to most, was definately one that warranted thanks. And so at 1 or 2 in the morning as I walked a lonely inner city street by myself, I literally shouted out to GOD in what I now refer to as speaking in tongues. I was jubilant and wanted badly to convey this to GOD. The very next day I spoke in tongues and interpreted in a believer's meeting. I patterned my protocol on what I had seen in the few meetings I had been to. By this I mean I waited until the leader asked for tongues with interpretation and jumped in and did it. Those in attendance were taken back. I had no idea you were supposed to take a class in order to qualify for this . The next day when I told the TL ( who had not been present) about this I was given the proverbial "lift list" and some brief instructions.. What occurred immediately upon the implimentation of this "lift list" was to be my first recognisable experience with revelation. I was assured that what I thought was revelation was just unrenewed mind. The image was actually quite disturbing and I actually felt guilty I had allowed my mind to have this thought. This guilt ,of course, did not permeate my every thought but still when the incident came to mind the guilt was there. I have posted before on the specifics of this incident but don't recall the thread. That guilt found a quiet place in my mind to live as I distanced myself from twi and was not aware of much of what took place in the so-called twi2. I found GSC a couple of months ago and see the incident in a whole new light. ------My insight from all this (and this is just my opinion) is that when we recieve the new birth it is not some spiritual "infant" that we need to feed spiritual mashed potatoes by speaking in tongues for hours on end to build up. It's all there waiting for us to interact with. I no longer even believe that sit is some mystic rite we must pass before GOD will speak to us. Christ in us is a wholeness, not some foundation we strive to build on ,by constantly doing all nine all the time. Walking on this is the true essense of believing , not telling GOD what drapes we demand or drawing some elaborate picture of what WE think is the solution.

ALLEYCAT------------In recruiting these potential WOWs did you knowingly misrepresent scripture? Did you feign revelation they should enroll?( This is not the same as saying " I feel it's the right thing") did you knowingly encourage them to partcipate in any activity that was illegal, immoral, or "foolhearty"? My guess is you probably answered these questions "NO". Like alot of us here you most likely encouraged them to do what you at that time thought was in their best interest for spiritual growth. I think you can be proud you acted in a manner you felt would benefit GOD's people. I would say KUDOs and not condemnation would be in order. GOD can and does heal, and forgive.I hope you stick around and sample the menu. Good coffee, good friends, good grief! I'm getting sappy.------sorry.----Welcome aboard.

ductape-----------"Innocent newbies get accused."--------Are you the adjective, the noun, or the object?

Hey J.---------Just noticed your tag re: weeding your garden. Got any swiss chard in that garden? How about a root cellar? Just wondering.

Rhino---------Your point is very valid and well taken. Remember the teaching of of how Paul erred in judgment but not in heart and how we could weigh decisions in this same light? I humbly submit that we may well have erred in judgement but we surely weren't the ones who erred in heart. That place was reservered for those who gave us directives that were based on flawed thinking,and not scripture or revelation.

I think we've ALL come along way "baby", due in no small measure to the bravery and courage you and others have shown. I can only speak for myself but let me just say this: THANK YOU!

KNOWING THIS FIRST !---------------This thread is not about hitchhiking. Nor is it about LEAD, WC agreements, jumping off cliffs, walking on water,or being given the task of driving in impossible conditions or reaching them safely and legally in a reasonable time frame. It is quite simply about foolhardy behavior. Not our foolhardy behavior,mind you, but the foolhardy behavior of those who required these actions without accurate scriptural referance or direct revelation from GOD ALMIGHTY. Many instances of what may seem to be foolhardy behavior can be found in the Bible if one has the initiative to search. Upon close examination, these records will show that one or both criteria were always present. Did twi have accurate scritural referance to require these actions? Did any of these leaders have revelations to make these demands? Perhaps that's what made them "foolhardy".In a previous post I specifically used the word "danger" which one poster ,in responding, conveniently changed to "evil " in a blatent attempt to distort the intended meaning. ----------As for the issue of not Knocking on "that" door again because the occupant told you not to, was this conclusion reached because of what he said or implied or because GOD told you not to? This may seem like a somewhat cynic remark but I assure you I ask in earnest. This is the type of question many who post here were faced with on a continual basis and hoped and prayed they would answer appropriately.

AHH! FANTASIA. ------ I used to have the Beta Max around here somewhere but it think it might have been damaged by my gro lite. As for "200 Motels"I think I lent that to Suzie Creamcheese. What would you do daddy, what would you do?

I saw this once before when I was standing in line at Wally World, waiting to pay for dog biscuits.

As I have followed this thread I have recalled the lyrics to a song from an era long past. They go something like this: " A hypocrite in all his might, so wrong in that he thinks he's right. Still he hears not. still he sees not . Will he?"

Oldies has posed the question:" What if , on a twi assignment, you sustain injury in a natural disaster? Like a hurricane or tornado. Do you blame twi then too, for "putting you in harm's way? The answer to this is :If the person giving the assignment was fully aware of the dangers of this assignment then yes. If a limb coordinator demands that you prove yourself worthy of GOD'S trust by driving through the "blizzard of the century" over very rural roads when the local authorities have already declared that only the most dire circumstances will validate travel and violators will be prosecuted then it is my opinion that said LC is purposely putting you in harm's way. Of course one must factor in the reason for such an extreme demand. Would putting cardboard on a broken window pane justify the 20 mile trip? Hypothetically speaking of course.

Oldies------ In your postings you talk of how people were aware of what they were getting into when they enrolled in many of these programs. I have to tell you in a direct way that this simply is not accurate. In fact, in many instances the opposite is true. What some of these programs promised and what they actually delivered would, in the secular realm , be considered "bait and switch" and deceptive advertising. When you are talking about toasters or stereo speakers thats one thing; but when you are talking about people who have burned all their bridges whether they be friends, family or career to get to this land of plenty only to find out it's just another cornfield and there is no easy way home, the answers don't come so quickly or easily. You have indicated that you were a WC sponsor at one point. Does it not embarrass or irk you in the least to see what the money you gave in good faith was spent on? Oh sure ,I know we were taught that the giving was our responsability and the stewardship was theirs and still don't you feel at least in part that you might have been duped? BTW did you knock on that door again were the occupant told you he would "kick" your arse"?If not, why not? If you have then knock again and tell him how Christ died and rose again so he could have eternal life. It sounds like it's in walking distance so you probably wouldn't even have to hitch a ride.

Roy------------the great bluesman,Muddy Waters, aka Mckinley Morganfield had a song in which the lyrics were "the whole world's fightin' about the same thing." holy hugs to ya' bro.

OM--------- Ever seen "Mississippi Burning"? Those kids went there with a mission to fulfil and a noble mission it was indeed. Could they have abandoned their mission and walked away? I submit that in a physical sense they could have done just that. Did they? Hell no! Why not ? Because they had the conviction to follow through with what they believed and thought it would make this country a better place to live in. GOD BLESS them for their sacrifises. I not asking you to equate our men and women of such programs as WOW, WC, FL and so on with civil rights activists . I'm merely trying to help you see they may have been driven by the same selfless motives, and desire to see people set free from spiritual bondage. The fact that they were victimized in the process in no way excuses the actions of the victimizers. I applaud them for taking action in the face of adversity.