Rocky

Perhaps it's worth noting that NONE of us is or will be in a position to parse your question or possible answers thereto Allan. It may very well be a pertinent question for personal reflection, but I just don't see how it could foster any kind of meaningful discussion on this thread.

It also moves us very far into the realm of political discussion, which I clearly intended to avoid. Let's PLEASE not go there.

What are you planning to charge for PFAL, Gary? I just saw your Facebook page For the record, I don't subscribe to the fundamentalist perspective, including Wierwille's private interpretation thereof, anymore.

A local high school English teacher and I connected on FB a few days ago. I didn't tell her about Wierwille's obsession with a book called the Myth of the Six Million. But had I mentioned it, she would have known what I was referring to. She recommended a book to me, Night by Elie Wiesel. It's the record of a witness. Mr. Wiesel was a child when he was taken to a concentration camp with his family. This is not a discussion of politics then or now. My intent is simply to call attention to an original witness account of a significant era in 20th Century history. It is available as a pdf file for no charge at the link above. If you believe that history repeats itself, or at least rhymes, this book may interest you. After I finish reading it, I might post a synopsis here.

To a degree. I'm not so aggressive about some of it. Re item 2, deceptive and irresponsible implies awareness of the fact. Not necessarily a lot of the people who do so are themselves being deceptive or irresponsible. With roughly 7 billion humans alive right now and numerous cultures, I'd figure that there's plenty of rewriting going on already, some good, some not so good. Do you really need me to weigh in on item number 1?

It highlights the human need for stories and to define meaning to their lives.

But what does all that say about humanity in general and humans (people) in particular?

it's classically known as gaslighting. It's psychological abuse, plain and simple. A form of intimidation or psychological abuse, sometimes called Ambient Abuse where false information is presented to the victim, making them doubt their own memory, perception and quite often, their sanity. The classic example of gaslighting is to switch something around on someone that you know they're sure to notice, but then deny knowing anything about it, and to explain that they "must be imagining things" when they challenge these changes. A more psychological definition of gaslighting is "an increasing frequency of systematically withholding factual information from, and/or providing false information to, the victim - having the gradual effect of making them anxious, confused, and less able to trust their own memory and perception. Your spouse begins telling you things that never really happened. For instance, he says that last week he told you he was going to go to the bar with his buddies this Monday night, but you never remember him telling you that.

That's the general consensus from threads here on the subject. There was one or two people who initially gave them the benefit of the doubt, but for the most part, it was viewed as pretty much ssdd as twi.

Great job articulating the problem, Twinky. It's never been more clear that this has been the problem from the very beginning. Wierwille was always about himself, NOT about God.

How? They can obviously still pay the bills by doing things the old way. What motivation might they have to change when they don't have to?

Yet, we know that the twi grapevine isn't necessarily reliable.

Does it matter? Is the culture of the organization going to change? I doubt it.

As I understand it, the same happens with seedless watermelons.

I just read Vernon's message. Sounds like the same old same old. It is dated six weeks ago. Are we actually expecting any change in the corporate culture? It would surprise me.

Well, wasn't you know who sometimes referred to as werewolf? Or was that mainly at GSC?

That right there, had I known at the time, could have sent me running for the hills away from twi. It's barbaric to cook/serve food without garlic or onions. Absolutely barbaric.

One item I remember from way back when/then... Wayfers passing around information about microwave ovens killing food. Of course, when something is overcooked in a m/w, that goes without saying. But this was a matter of just telling people not to use m/w ovens.

That's a great description of the credulity I encountered, and likely engaged in myself during my time in twi, and probably for an undetermined time thereafter. noun willingness to believe or trust too readily, especially without proper or adequate evidence; gullibility.

Yeah, I lost weight that year. I didn't despise the borscht. I also remember the homemade bread was very good. But I don't remember thinking about coffee one way or the other. I DO remember being sleep deprived, and having a hard time staying awake in classes. No doubt you have stories to tell (to your children, perhaps). What I had left over from way corpse training wasn't necessarily the stuff of stories I would want to tell my child. Thankfully, she (my daughter) is a successful adult now... but I'm rambling. Sorry.

And the 9th corpse. The food was good. Not everyone appreciated the borscht, but it was good quality food.

Further, the publisher... American Christian Press. I'd love to get people who were around HQ in those days to share any potential insight on the Organic Gardening Department.

Not sure that's the correct spelling of the gentleman's last name. It might be Hearne or Herne.

Really? How is it that you can see into the heart or depths of mind of any person. Can you even do that with yourself? (i.e. self-awareness) Btw, I started addressing you as Gabe intending it to indicate respect. I will cease doing so.

That could be more aspirational than anything else. I mean what the heck, there's so much ambiguity and paradox, not to mention the variety of versions/translations. I wish you well in that endeavor.