Rocky

Really? How is it that you can see into the heart or depths of mind of any person. Can you even do that with yourself? (i.e. self-awareness) Btw, I started addressing you as Gabe intending it to indicate respect. I will cease doing so.

That could be more aspirational than anything else. I mean what the heck, there's so much ambiguity and paradox, not to mention the variety of versions/translations. I wish you well in that endeavor.

I'm guessing that our good friend Gabe does NOT see how judgmental it sounds.

I stood in line to pay for groceries earlier this afternoon.

Didn't I read someplace/time that you were tired of answering questions about that subject? Really? Bloody is a swear word? Come on Gabe. People have been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise TL;DR

I recognize that.

I think you did a good job of trying to do so also.

Perhaps some of it applies to trying to communicate in print too.

I'm not sure if this is directly relevant to the biblical topic at hand but I just read it and I find it intriguing. "They will interpret what you say in light of what they want to hear; and if your advice runs counter to their desires, they will find some way to dismiss your opinion, your so-called expertise. The more powerful the person, the more they are subject to this form of the confirmation bias. "When investigating confirmation bias in the world, take a look at theories that seem a little too good to be true. Statistics and studies are trotted out to prove them; these are not very difficult to find, once you are convinced of the rightness of your argument. On the internet, it is easy to find studies that support both sides of an argument. In general, you should never accept the validity of people’s ideas because they have supplied “evidence.” Instead, examine the evidence yourself in the cold light of day, with as much skepticism as you can muster. Your first impulse should always be to find the evidence that disconfirms your most cherished beliefs and those of others. That is true science." Greene, Robert. The Laws of Human Nature (p. 29). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. In terms of our discussion, "evidence" relates to Bible verses. Science would be "biblical research." We seem to know enough to recognize that legitimate understanding of biblical truth acknowledges that there will be apparent contradictions and obvious paradox throughout the accepted scriptures. We all seem to have inherent biases that guide our interpretation of any complex issue, not the least of which would include God's commandments and His Plan for Redemption... given that we generally accept the Bible to be the focus of where God makes his will known. One such bias, confirmation bias, is the first listed by Mr. Green in his book on Human Nature. That's where I found the quote above. That's one reason I tried to change my approach to what our friend Gabe was trying to sell us about the sabbath. WE (most of us who have posted on this discussion) seem(ed) to have a common understanding of the issue. We set that understanding to words in response (and resistance) to Gabe's view. I've been able to recognize that I am not always right, and recognize it for years. Not necessarily for the last 34 years, but for more than one or two years. So I figured I had nothing to lose by giving Gabe the opportunity to make his case without my resistance.

Indeed.

And you assume that PFAL is worth sharing? For how much?

Sigh...

That is certainly your right and privilege. I don't think anyone is suggesting you are at all required to do so. The point is that IF you want to succeed at your stated endeavor of effectively sharing your new (to your audience anyway) understanding of scripture with them, you'll want to figure out how to relate to your audience. Using stories, most powerfully your own (or some small part of your own) as it would relate to your audience and to the point you want to make, would give you much more powerful ability to do so. I don't personally need to know anything about you. But I can tell you that you have not succeeded in effectively getting your point across about the 7th Day Sabbath, at least to me. And hopefully I've made it clear as to why that's the case. I do not share this to insult you or criticize at all. I've tried to empathize with you. But I suppose I haven't succeeded either. Take care Gabe.

Well, I'm not the dogmatic one. As I understand it, adult humans don't change deeply held values based on logical arguments. For that, it takes significant emotional events. I suppose even in that regard, the degree of change and the deepness of the value held would be a matter of degrees. Nevertheless, in conveying a general concept, I'm not necessarily always as dead on accurate as possible. It's a good thing to be open to learning more and changing one's understanding when new knowledge becomes available. I'm glad it has worked for you WW. And that you shared that bit of your story here.

Who anointed you as the primary judge of all women and men on Earth today? I wish YOU would humble yourself and pray. Then you might see the way you have been trying to communicate your understanding of God's law isn't getting through to us. As it stands, the only thing you're telegraphing as to your intentions is that you have judged us and found us lacking. Will you be sitting at God's right hand on judgment day? Just sayin'. I wish you growth.

Did I miss where Waxit shared his story? It appears that in all his posts he writes as if he is GOD, rather than as himself telling his story of why he believes the sabbath is important. That certainly would explain why nobody here seems to have been convinced by anything Waxit preached at us. Most disappointing.

This TED talk about storytelling got posted to YouTube today. Storytelling is a very important part of life.

The Apostle Paul had a story. By the way that story developed, he (and many others) came to realize there was a better way than persecuting Gentiles and Christians. What's YOUR story? What happened in your life that opened your eyes to the wonder of how important the sabbath was? It may have been associated chronologically with you reading certain scriptures, but what was the something that happened to give you the "AH HA" moment when you "got it?" What was it in your journey/experience that represented the realization, like when the scales fell off of Paul's eyes?

How is that at all about Gabe? I'm not nitpicking. Stories can communicate powerfully and effectively when/where just telling people that you know they're doing it wrong doesn't get the message across that you wanted to get across. At some point, perhaps when/if you get frustrated enough with lack of response to your preaching, you might explore the idea of trying to express what really motivated you to make the decision in your life. It's a ministry of reconciliation, isn't it? How can you reconcile people to God if you are so frustrated with them that you can't tolerate their feedback to you?

Waxit, this is why I asked you on the other thread to tell us your story, how and why you came to believe what you do about sabbath. Arguing the logic of this or that doesn't convince people. Of anything. Anytime. Stories CAN, however, accomplish your purpose powerfully. If you've already shared your story about this conversion, I obviously missed it. But YOU matter. I want to understand YOU. Please tell us your story about coming to believe in the importance of keeping the sabbath. Thanks

I would still appreciate our friend Waxit/Gabe answering for himself, thanks.

Okay Gabe, we've gotten your argument from the scriptures. Now, if you would be so kind, please share with us how and why you came to believe in the importance of the 7th day Sabbath. What is YOUR story that brought you to this place and this belief. Thanks. Btw, I hold no animosity toward or for you, simply because I disagree with you. Steve

Well, I didn't exactly do much of an examination, just a glance. But you figured out one of the key problems with that revenue/expense statement. There are several items that are not well explained. Just because some items were aggregated and then summarized with certain account labels, doesn't tell the reader of the statement much of anything at all. In my mind, there would need to be an explanation for the group's chart of accounts AND a CPA audit statement qualifying whether generally accepted accounting procedures (GAAP)/standards were consistently employed/applied. IOW, that financial statement tells a little (very little) but may hide more than it reveals.

How do you know what's going on in their hearts? It seems that for what you do to be what you think it is, you'd have to start with an error-free version/translation of the Bible. How can you be sure you have that?

Cool song.