Rocky

So, it's okay for YOU to do what you condemn as long as you weren't the first one?

Of course you don't engage in name calling. You're a highly trained psychiatrist, right? Isn't that why you diagnosed mental illness in someone you claim to have never met? Shift this also said: "right on ! speak nicely ! dont call people names or put them down."

Translated into English: I drank the kool-aid and I became addicted to it. Further, claims that the cult Wierwille founded teaches "rightly-divided word of GOD" are nothing more and nothing less than an illusion.

Karl's doing well... living an adventurous life... trying to sorta reinvent himself as a comedy writer.

No, that's not what I was getting at. The Mormon church is obsessed with taking care of the social and economic needs of its members... unlike TWI. Is that clear enough? Thanks for asking for clarification.

I don't know about the swagger, but the video may hold some clues as to how or why the Mormon church is far more successful that the small time cult based in New Knoxville, OH. Not that I'm interested in the Mormons either.

Very good point. I wonder how many of us understand what makes a successful alpha male?

A critical thought. An interesting reflection, for sure. At least partly true/factual. The fact is, we ALL (even setting aside having been sucked into TWI) are subject to and have been conned.

You've never been conned? Surely you jest. Even setting aside anything TWI and our involvement therein, we've ALL been conned. It's a part of life. Not a pleasant part, but it's there anyway. Do you have any idea how contradictory your statements above are? Critical thinking isn't necessary to just listen to their teachings? That's all you do? Really? You just absorb them without a thought as to whether they are reasonable, relate to anything you've ever heard before, or could possibly be the truth? Oh, yeah, you said you might go over them to "see if what I see in the Word agrees..." But critical thinking and analysis is SO unnecessary.

Critical thinking skills are crucial for people who want to avoid the very human condition of being subject to con games. Wierwille was a con artist. Martindale, though he exercised misdirection more often by way of bullying, was still a con artist. TWI splinter groups are con games. The truth isn't hidden now for people who actually are interested in it. For those who are not, they often resort to calling critical thinking and analysis "speculation." Your analogy about "evil persons" changing and then invoking Saul of Tarsus is a logical fallacy and unrelated to the discussion on this thread. But you'd know that if you weren't actively avoiding critical analysis.

It's UNusual for a group to NOT ask. Like I said to our not so curious and surprisingly trusting (in the R&R group) taxi friend... If they don't want to build their group, that's no skin off my nose... they'll just all fade away.

1) reading YOUR words and 2) it's awfully presumptuous of you to think that your private interpretation -- no matter how "skilled" you might be in biblical research -- is "thus saith the Lord." Oh, and besides presumptuous, it also comes off as extremely arrogant. Especially when you don't even demonstrate reasonable levels of curiosity about organizational concepts and principles.

How quaint that whenever anyone challenges YOUR preconceived notions, they are speculating, but when your R&R friends make a declaration (apparently) of thus saith the Lord, you take them at their word. The issue is not whether they eventually start asking for money, but whether or not they decide to build their new splinter group. One possibility is that they could just defer to Rico, who already has a structure to facilitate collection of moo-lah for "obedience to the household of faith."

We've been through this. It's not speculation. It's decades of experience, pattern recognition and human nature. If they have no ambition other than working for the next few decades (when they're octogenarians), then they are either independently wealthy (as TLC suggested) or they're trying to gin up a new splinter group. Now your lack of curiosity seems to have retreated into denialism.

And they will... unless Rico goes too heavy on his obedience to the household bull$hit.

A suggestion probably best if it had been made privately, if at all. GSC is about 18 years old now. I trust that Pawtucket has properly evaluated his options. I'm thankful for this service he has provided. I made a meager donation, wish I could afford more.

I heard the same $hit from Wierwille in the mid-1970s. T-bone is right, it was just marketing bull$hit.

That's certainly a big part of it. Perhaps another major reason was the sense of belonging we had as a part of what the cult labeled the "household of God." For many years before and during my time in TWI, I couldn't figure out why people stayed in denominational Christian churches that had glaring major flaws. They often overlooked those flaws because of their "tribe." They had people they felt comfortable with, they felt they belonged.

It IS relevant. But we mustn't judge whether others are as able as Elizabeth S to move on and take charge of their emotional destiny. Thanks for sharing the link. I dare say that most of us who have been here at Greasespot Cafe HAVE moved on and no longer allow twi to control our lives, our moods, our interactions with others. But it's a process that takes different times for each individual. One thing Elizabeth had and has is strong family ties with tremendous emotional support. That's one of the things GSC can help with to some extent.

Because it is not IN scripture. But he did have that obsession with homosexuality. BTW, regarding Martindale's first name, see what you can learn when you ask questions? Loy sounds much more reasonable as Thomas' middle name.

Both VeePee's and Loy's versions are tied into self-justifying rationalization... and yes, both are ridiculous. Wierwille probably tied it into his rationalization that it was acceptable to prey on (not necessarily pray over) the very attractive young women that idolized him. Martindale was apparently having a very difficult time getting through to his wife about her relationship(s) even though she seems to have overlooked his.

Makes sense. Thanks. Btw, I believe your expression, "the Oikeos 'business'" is on the mark.

SSDD indeed. I should apologia to Taxidev because this might irritate him further, but it is now abundantly clear that Rico and R&R, regardless of distinctions they might want to make about each other, are very much tied in together. I listened to all of maybe 30 seconds of Rico's recording on obedience to the Household of Faith and recognized that the very first point he made was to conflate obedience to the HOF with obedience to God. "Obedience to the household or the family faith is really about obeying God." He sets up his new cult structure with the old cult dogma. Nothing more. Nothing less. Same S*it, Different Name for the cult. So, there you have it. We've wondered for a year or so what's up with these knuckleheads, and despite the protestations of Taxidev who claimed to be giving them the benefit of the doubt and watching their behavior and words, they're NO different from the group they splintered from.

Sure looks like they are involved with each other.

Just simple to find. I understand that the concepts aren't easy for many people.