Rocky

How do you know that Rico is not linked at all to or with the R&R group?

LOL... I know you wouldn't pay (nor would I) but somebody is counting on someone paying.

OIKEOS' courses Haven't seen anything on their website yet about the cost to attend the courses.

IF the R&R group has established itself as the OIKEOS Christian Network, the group has indeed set its sights on being a new splinter group. I copied excerpts and pasted them in the R&R thread with commentary. They do seem intent on running classes.

So, is the R&R group the actual Oikeos Christian Network? If so, its bylaws (of the nonprofit corporation) provide answers to key questions about which you have specifically expressed no interest in learning. It is a 501 (c) 3 corporation. That means that they ARE interested in your money, whether they have said so or not so far. The preamble/corporate governance specifies three teams, a leadership team, an oversight team and a finance team. "Networking is for support and shared benefit aided by website, periodic meetings, courses, ministering visits, or any other activity deemed appropriate by the three teams." That's the last sentence of the preamble. Those activities cost money. That money will have to come from someplace. That you seem to have had no clue about the purpose of the organization, reflects a dramatic level of naivete. I'll refrain from guessing about whether or not it is accompanied by disingenuous intent. "Section. 3 Powers. The Corporation shall have the following powers: "To receive and maintain a fund or funds and personal property, and to use and apply the whole or any part of the income therefrom and the principal thereof for the purposes set forth in Article IV, Section 1, above." So, Taxi, it didn't take me much time at all to discover things that really anyone might want to know about the group, and what people contemplating involvement or association with them SHOULD probably want to know. "Section 5. Compensation. The Oversight Team with input from the Finance Team shall determine by majority vote when to begin paying salaries and the amount of the salaries for the three Officers. The Officers may begin to be salaried one at a time or all at once depending on the Corporation’s financial resources. All voting members of the Team shall serve without compensation except that they shall be allowed reasonable advancement or reimbursement of expenses incurred in the performance of their duties." "Section 2. Duties. The Finance Team shall have custody of corporate funds. They shall work with the Secretary/Treasurer to keep or require to be kept full and accurate accounts of receipts and disbursements and shall deposit or require to be deposited all corporate monies and other valuable effects in the name and to the credit of the Corporation in the depository or depositories of the Corporation and shall render an account of the transactions and of the financial condition of the Corporation to the Leadership Team upon request. The Leadership Team shall submit a proposed budget to the Finance Team semi-annually for review. The Finance Team shall review the budget to ensure the proposed expenditures promote the mission of the Corporation and approve the budget or provide revisions to the Leadership Team. If the Leadership Team in its discretion determines that monies are needed for a specific purpose outside of the budget or in addition to the semi-annual budget, the Leadership Team shall present the purpose of the monies to the Finance Team. The Finance Team shall have full discretion on the approval or disapproval of those funds." "Section 3. Reports. Each year after the annual meeting the Leadership Team shall make the Corporation’s Balance Sheet and Revenue and Expense Statement open for public review. If audited financial reports are available, then the audited balance sheet and revenue and expense statement will be used." The expression, "if audited financial reports are available," unless superceded elsewhere in the bylaws, implies that they don't expect to have audited financial reports. That very simply makes financial mischief all but certain. "Section 8. Gifts. The Leadership Team may accept on behalf of the Corporation any contribution, gift, bequest, or devise for the general purpose or for any special Purpose of the Corporation." The rest of the article on fiscal management seems sound and feasible. Article XIV. Giving "Section 1. Standard. II Corinthians 9:7: “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.” "This scripture is the basis of the Corporation’s teaching on giving. Network fellowships will not collect participants’ giving to be sent directly to the Corporation. Network fellowships can instruct participants as to how to give directly to the Corporation." The end of the bylaws says that they were adopted on 8 August 2018. So, Taxi, do you see how easy that was? Just read, copy and paste (I only pasted some parts thereof).

Oh, I'll read it. And let you know what I think about it. Bottom line is that your lack of curiosity hinders your ability to find out what's really going on. That saddens me.

Since you lack curiosity about what is really going on with R&R, why should anyone take anything you say about them seriously?

No further need to discuss it, since you don't seem to care whether or not what people here have clearly shown to be the case with the R&R group. However, you have been uniquely situated to explore the issue.

Glad you asked for clarification. I answered it in several prior posts on this thread. Btw, I'm (three plus) decades removed from involvement with twi so I have no anger. But in that three plus decades, I have lived a life. I've had careers in accounting and journalism. I've tried to be well read on issues of life. I also have a few (12 or so) years experience in the cult. You might say I've been around the block a few times. If you really want to know why I would think that, reread a few key posts I've made (like defining humanity, recognizing patterns and habits, etc.) and if you still want further insight on the question, certainly ask away. I don't read most of the comments on this thread as being angry. But correctly recognizing emotion in interaction between people is also very important in the process of understanding group dynamics. As I've said before, you don't seem to demonstrate much curiosity or inquisitiveness regarding the group. You very likely could learn a lot more about them, beneath the surface so to speak, if you did.

I have to wonder about your level of curiosity... and/or resourcefulness. Dude, if you want to know something... "seek and ye shall find." Ever heard of that before?

Like... this IS on the internet. Can people not be found if they have any footprint on the internet?????

You appear to be too close to the subject to be capable of objective analysis. In journalism, that's strictly forbidden. On forums, not so much. The key point is that you rationalize and try to justify what you see. You SAY you're just giving your observations, but you're just too close to your subject. Case in point: you clearly have stated that you have not observed evidence of the R&R group wanting followers' money. Do you have any idea what an investigative journalist would do to actually find out? It goes well beyond seeing whether they have a "donate" button on their website. I've asked you questions that could lead you to exploring the issue if you had a genuine inquisitiveness. Beyond claiming "they have been very specific they don't want money," how deep has been the public discussion about how the organization will fund its activities?

Take the blinders off... you'll see it.

One of the key determinants of humanity is the ability to recognize patterns. Another is that unless adult humans undergo a significant emotional event, they don't change their values. Another is that we act from habit most of the time. It's not that we are 100 percent certain... but unless they demonstrate something out of the ordinary, we've pretty much got them pegged.

Contact page to contact whom, then?

You believe? Or you have it on their word? Or some other authority?

Do they have jobs? Are they all independently wealthy? If not, then they want (need) money from their followers.

Then it's not a contact list, is it?

With phone numbers and email addresses? Not that I need any of them.

Well... I can agree with part of what you said. "You cannot move forward until the old tainted individuals are removed..." must be followed by a complete re-examination of the writings upon which the organization was built and the social structure, mores and practices are overhauled. Only then can positive change occur.

Well, based on the insights in Charlene's book about "research," I'd have to say that Taxidev nailed it... literal translation according to what VPW believed it meant. Which was not necessarily what God intended.

I know it's frustrating. I hear that in your posts on this thread. Wikipedia apparently has a different interpretation of what "righting great wrongs" means than you do. Thankfully, you can (and have) expressed your frustration. Perhaps another time another opportunity will arise to set this straight on their (wikipedia's) own terms. Even more thankfully, TWI can't do anything to keep us from disclosing the truth here on Greasespot.

The answer would have to be yes. Perhaps the more salient question is where you can find them... whether they would be sealed or not, etc.

Citation please, Thomas.

Apologies to those who grew up in TWI (i.e. Bolshevik and others) who endured noxious fundamentalism and survived. In the spirit of putting perspective to our dysfunctional cult background, I present to you, Educated by Tara Westover. It may be important for me to reiterate that I'm not excusing the oppressiveness and abuse inherent in the social structure of twi, nor am I suggesting it wasn't so bad. I do suggest that there's always worse. More importantly, Ms. Westover shows remarkable determination to overcome her upbringing in an isolated family in Idaho. Most importantly, Tara's story is a memoir of hope. Amazon.com Review An Amazon Best Book of February 2018: Tara Westover wasn’t your garden variety college student. When the Holocaust was mentioned in a history class, she didn’t know what it was (no, really). That’s because she didn’t see the inside of a classroom until the age of seventeen. Public education was one of the many things her religious fanatic father was dubious of, believing it a means for the government to brainwash its gullible citizens, and her mother wasn’t diligent on the homeschooling front. If it wasn’t for a brother who managed to extricate himself from their isolated—and often dangerous--world, Westover might still be in rural Idaho, trying to survive her survivalist upbringing. It’s a miraculous story she tells in her memoir Educated. For those of us who took our educations for granted, who occasionally fell asleep in large lecture halls (and inconveniently small ones), it’s hard to grasp the level of grit—not to mention intellect—required to pull off what Westover did. But eventually earning a PhD from Cambridge University may have been the easy part, at least compared to what she had to sacrifice to attain it. The courage it took to make that sacrifice was the truest indicator of how far she’d come, and how much she’d learned. Educated is an inspiring reminder that knowledge is, indeed, power. --Erin Kodicek, Amazon Book Review