Rocky

King Solomon apparently disagreed with your (il)logic. What do you do with Proverbs 11:14? "Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety." ESV And what about Proverbs 16:18? "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall." NIV Mike, I think the scriptures are calling BULL$hit on you. VeePee was as arrogant as they come and clearly, he eschewed wise counsel when he needed it most.

Struggled with whom? It was his friggin' ministry, for crying out loud. I think YOU left out some important information. In your world (with allegedly "genuine spiritual leaders"), how does one determine "what's right with God," other than simply declining to question or challenge VeePee? How do you measure the standard? The way most of us saw it play out is that a malignant narcissist with a gift for conning young people demanded loyalty and if someone didn't like it, then to hell with them. IOW, people didn't stay in Wierwille's notion of the household of God based on anything other than that they bought into a confidence game and continued along because they found a place to belong.

You can start here (thread with links to archives).

First and foremost -- you are not alone! As far as going to therapy, the good thing is that all you have to do is respond to the questions posed by the therapist. I realize you probably already know that, so I hope you don't mind that I said it. Also, here's the video Twinky mentioned (that I posted the other day in another forum on this website). The labels are different for other cults, but the template is essentially the same as what we were subjected to in twi. You are also far from alone in dealing with depression and anxiety. It can get better for you. We're on your side.

Indeed. One thing that strikes me is that the labels are different but the template is virtually identical to the cult we escaped from. And this young lady does a great job of showing how not to be trapped for a lifetime.

We who were young in the 1970s and 1980s in TWI know what love bombing is, don't we? We know/knew it as a sales technique for a religious multi-level marketing enterprise. But with the advent of the #MeToo movement, observant scholars and essayists started recognizing it as an insidious scheme to win the loyalty and affection of the object of one's sexual attraction. “Love bombing, unlike real love, is a self-centered, anxious pursuit, with the singular goal of acquiring someone because it boosts the bomber’s ego,” Craig Malkin, clinical psychologist and author of Rethinking Narcissism, told HuffPost. “It’s not about care or compassion or tenderness..."

That makes me wonder why you want to take over GSC with superstitious conspiracy theories.

Cool beans.

Great insight at that link. Thanks Bolshevik, I just now read it. It gots into the psychology of conspiracy theories. That's insightful.

LOL! Why would anyone in their right mind want to volunteer with that cult anyway? Otherwise, your restatement of the question seems quite reasonable. Of course, "emeritus" status doesn't automatically or contractually confer on anyone anything other than what they get when their hair turns gray. But I suspect Skyrider linked the expression with retiring with dignity for a reason. I would think that the exodus of this particular group in 2017, after many of them had spent a 40 year career with the cult, might have been motivated somewhat by a desire for finding a funding stream for retirement pay. Then again, that's only speculation on my part.

That's been the focus of one line of reasoning to debunk bull$hit like what Mr. Goldstar is trying to hoist onto what he hopes are gullible GSC readers. While I generally abhor declarations of what people are thinking (including "hoping") and prefer sticking to addressing what they write in posts, weeks ago I caught some contradictions on Mr. GS's posts. He tried to explain them away, IIRC. However, I just caught another one. He started this thread to bait people into debating details of what he claims is a non-existent space program operated by the US government. But he also posted about Elon Musk's launch of a Tesla automobile, mocking the miscalculated trajectory BUT NOT claiming the event never happened. We've had people act like that before here at GSC... The bottom line is that it's getting more and more difficult to take Goldstar seriously. Where's that scripture that addresses vain babblings? Please don't take his bait.

Again, that's arguing semantics. Discovery relates to human learning.

And on the topic of whether or not there has been manned (and womanned) space flight, moon landings, Mars rover landings, exploration of distant planets and other wondrous things, I disagree with your entire concept that NASA has been staging huge deceptions. Further, I find your claims in that regard so absurd that I have no intention of addressing the minutia. Your inference, "too much good, hard evidence... etc." Only reflects how you see the situation and bears no relation to how I view any of it.

May I offer you this insight. You can only control you. If you have something you believe you don't want to read, your only socially responsible recourse is to ignore it. This is but I offer it to you in a spirit of cooperation, in hopes that you might find it helpful.

That's essentially what the About the Way forum is for. It's not the only place, but that's perhaps the best place.

Well, I guess if we wanted, we could argue semantics till the cows come home. I will simply say this, I essentially disagree with your interpretation of the concept of discovery. Further, sociology is not necessarily limited to studying what's currently happening. Perhaps drawing from interdisciplinary cooperation, sociologists research past and present.

Granted that natural, physical laws already exist and to our knowledge do not change. However, it seems to me that you may not be using the word "discover" according to its dictionary definition/meaning. Some definitions include: n. a productive insight n. something that is discovered n. the act of discovering something n. (law) compulsory pretrial disclosure of documents relevant to a case; enables one side in a litigation to elicit information from the other side concerning the facts in the case A productive insight. To the person who obtains that productive insight, they come to know something they didn't know before. There's a helluva lot of that that's been going on in the history of the human species. The entire set of knowledge known to mankind, at least about how time and space and matter work, has been gained after the fact. After those laws were put into operation. However, discovery of human culture not only is evolving, but so is the human culture that can be subject to discovery. Wouldn't you agree? True science? Anthropology, archeology and sociology are true sciences. But they're not in the same category as astrophysics or organic chemistry or geology.

I also forgot to mention that my stepson earned his bachelor's degree in optical science and master's degree in systems engineering and spent a couple of years working for a space contractor in DC, after getting his start as an engineer at a defense contractor in Tucson. In other words, he's a rocket scientist. I just think the whole subject of NASA staging the moon landing in a TV studio is an incredible con. If a person dares to consider the exploration drive that's embedded in human DNA, it's not difficult to scoff at those conspiracy theories. Nevertheless, one still must develop a critical basis for understanding how and why genuine space exploration is unavoidable.

I guess if you're more interested in talk radio and conspiracy theorists rather than academic research, conspiracy theories might make sense. But if you spend time thinking about and looking into the big questions that mankind can't help but explore, not so much. ASU's School of Earth and Space Exploration is walking distance from my house. Real astronauts hang out there. A good friend of mine married a female astronaut about two years ago. By any chance, have you read Sapiens yet?

Yes, I saw it. At best, I would agree with HapE4Me. I don't see it as credible evidence of any such thing. I do see that we are ALL gullible and subject to being deceived (and conned), especially those of us who bought into Wierwille's fundamentalist bull$hit. But I try to be more skeptical since I left wayworld more than 30 years ago.

Evidence? Seriously? Sorry if I was being to harsh for you.

Winter Park resident escaped fundamentalist cult!

The topic is communalism, not socialism. I could easily rebut your editorial comments on economics but that wouldn't be proper for this website.