WordWolf

That's the episode.

Strawmen CAN be used as diversions- they're used to change the subject or tie up discussion by introducing irrelevant-and false- representations about what other people are saying or doing. twi example: lcm, when he ran twi, said that the Pope bought an aircraft carrier and was getting ready to force conversions to Catholicism. It was a strawman, a false representation of what the Pope supposedly was doing, introduced so lcm the nut would look less nutty. "Look- other people are even crazier than me! So, I'm the sanest leader around!" Something along those lines. Strawmen have been used-often-by plenty of twi and ex-twi over time. We've seen it here a number of times. Often they were done to derail entirely discussions the poster didn't like.

For those who don't know what a "seed boy" is, it's the result of various expressions from vpw and lcm. Basically, to say someone is a "seed boy" is to claim they're permanent employees and slaves to the devil. The concept "born of the wrong seed" is a twi concept- as if God's "born again" can be counterfeited equally well by the devil, resulting in people "born of the wrong seed." This also predates God's people getting born again, in that the people "born of the wrong seed" begin in the book of Genesis. Basically, anyone successful and famous would eventually be accused of this.

I like to have a variety of news sources- and compare stories online from different newspapers, TV stations and so on, on the same story. Plus, I read the newspaper and listen to news on the radio. (I only look something up online when an issue is raised.) That was one thing that caught my attention- this was not picked up on Reuters, the AP wire, the BBC.... Some LOCAL newspaper, TV station, etc should have carried this. The only local source I can find is one SPECIALIZING in church news. I don't consider that a "neutral" source. Don't believe in CNN if Fox is being ignored? Fine with me. If a story is legit, you can skip CNN, Fox, MSNBC and still find lots of sources. When something is LOCAL news, it's BIG news to local news sources! Tulsa isn't a hole in the wall, it's a city with newspapers, TV stations, etc. An absence of coverage by all those, by itself, DOES say something.

For stories that are supposedly accurate, why is it that only Fox News is the only news source for them? It's like getting a warning from the "Weekly World News."

"Is it my imagination, or did the kid just cover for him?" "This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship." "Do I detect a note of jealousy in your voice?" "You two can argue about this on your own time." "Very important research. What? I'm not laughing. I'm not." "Surrender or you will all be killed." "I feel privileged to be here with you at such a moment." "There is still much to do before we declare victory. Until we leave Federation space, we are vulnerable to" "I am the First. And I have declared victory." "That is, of course, your prerogative." "I wish I could be there with you, old man." "I'll send you a postcard. Tell Worf I look forward to hearing his poem." "I serve the Founders. If it is their will to create a new race, that is the order of things." "But... ?" "But the Jem'Hadar bred here in the Alpha Quadrant have not proven themselves superior to those from the Gamma Quadrant. At least... not yet." "Restoring warp power may not be so simple for them. It took us a week just to learn how to pilot one of their ships." "I am First Kudak'Etan. In a strange way, you are the reason I exist. If you had not eliminated our fleet in the wormhole, there would have been no need to breed Alpha Quadrant Jem'Hadar." "I know what he's thinking because it's exactly what I would be doing in his position. You should kill him now, before he has a chance to put his plan into motion." "You are the Second. I am the First. Do not presume to tell me what to do." "Okay. I'm in no hurry to reach a Dominion prison camp. You want me to teach your men how to repair the warp drive, that's fine with me. We'll begin with the primary command and control systems -- that should take about six hours. Then we'll work our way up to basic engineering theory for a class seven warp drive, then --" ""And they say you don't have a sense of humor." "Mr. Worf, I think your wife is here." "The magnetic plasma guides are heating up." "They must've initiated the impulse prestart sequence." "What does that mean?" "It means this entire conduit is about to be filled with superheated plasma." "When you say superheated..." "If I can't find another way out of here, we'll be vaporized. Is that clear?" "Crystal."

"Is it my imagination, or did the kid just cover for him?" "This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship." "Do I detect a note of jealousy in your voice?" "You two can argue about this on your own time." "Very important research. What? I'm not laughing. I'm not." "Surrender or you will all be killed." "I feel privileged to be here with you at such a moment." "There is still much to do before we declare victory. Until we leave Federation space, we are vulnerable to" "I am the First. And I have declared victory." "That is, of course, your prerogative." "I wish I could be there with you, old man." "I'll send you a postcard. Tell Worf I look forward to hearing his poem." "I serve the Founders. If it is their will to create a new race, that is the order of things." "But... ?" "But the Jem'Hadar bred here in the Alpha Quadrant have not proven themselves superior to those from the Gamma Quadrant. At least... not yet." "Restoring warp power may not be so simple for them. It took us a week just to learn how to pilot one of their ships." "I am First Kudak'Etan. In a strange way, you are the reason I exist. If you had not eliminated our fleet in the wormhole, there would have been no need to breed Alpha Quadrant Jem'Hadar." "I know what he's thinking because it's exactly what I would be doing in his position. You should kill him now, before he has a chance to put his plan into motion." "You are the Second. I am the First. Do not presume to tell me what to do." "Okay. I'm in no hurry to reach a Dominion prison camp. You want me to teach your men how to repair the warp drive, that's fine with me. We'll begin with the primary command and control systems -- that should take about six hours. Then we'll work our way up to basic engineering theory for a class seven warp drive, then --"

No.

Yes. Too easy?

Ok, new show, then. "Don't you tell me to be quiet! I have a mind of my own you know! I can contribute! I'm not just some... trophy wife!" "You're a trophy wife? What contest in hell did I win?" "We haven't had a conversation for 35 years." "I didn't want to interrupt!" "Hey Nemo, what do you do if somebody's choking?" "Change the special." "Thanks." "Do you love me?" "YOU STILL NEED REASSURANCE, AFTER 45 YEARS OF BONDAGE?"

Right. Right. It is key. Wrong. But don't be sad, 2 out of 3 ain't bad. :)

No wonder I didn't have a clear memory of linking them recently. Someone else named the threads, I just slapped the links in place. Hunt Close! http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=4232 (by Jerome B. Robinson) Child Abuse in twi. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=4233

[From what I've heard around here, before the big 88/89 split, your exposure to dysfunctional, dangerous, and harmful childrearing practices depended on your proximity to Root locales. If you were on grounds in the Family Corps, or HQ, or one of those places, you were in for it. The worst part about it was the long periods with parents separated from their children, with an adult untrained in supervising children watching over them, ready to clobber them with the wooden spoon all adults were expected to carry. Unless you were the child of a bigwig. Then, instead of physical abuse, you got abuse by abandonment and lack of boundaries. You could get away with almost anything- and often did. I'm not sure who was worse off, of the 2 categories of abused children. AFTER the 88/89 split, twi was in a sort of "trickle-down" mode, and things that used to be reserved for private use at the Root locales became standard everywhere, including abusing children by clobbering them if they didn't conform to your whims. Then again, the parents who actually did this were abused by twi first-otherwise they wouldn't have agreed to commit battery on their children. So, the abuse trickled down....] [That's a safe approach. A few posters in the history of the GSC have shown themselves to be masters at asking those sorts of questions. Most of them aren't posting now, however, so this caution MIGHT not be needed.] [That's always good to add, I think. :) I think I'll look for a few links to previous discussions in case they were missed. (Although I probably linked them recently already-but I may be wrong.]

"Is it my imagination, or did the kid just cover for him?" "This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship." "Do I detect a note of jealousy in your voice?" "You two can argue about this on your own time." "Very important research. What? I'm not laughing. I'm not." "Surrender or you will all be killed." "I feel privileged to be here with you at such a moment." "There is still much to do before we declare victory. Until we leave Federation space, we are vulnerable to" "I am the First. And I have declared victory." "That is, of course, your prerogative." "I wish I could be there with you, old man." "I'll send you a postcard. Tell Worf I look forward to hearing his poem." "I serve the Founders. If it is their will to create a new race, that is the order of things." "But... ?" "But the Jem'Hadar bred here in the Alpha Quadrant have not proven themselves superior to those from the Gamma Quadrant. At least... not yet." "Restoring warp power may not be so simple for them. It took us a week just to learn how to pilot one of their ships."

No. http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/tagged.asp "Many recipients, upon learning that these mysterious messages were not actually sent by the persons named, have believed them to be a form of virus or scam. While these messages may not technically fall completely within either the "virus" or "scam" classifications (because they don't furtively install malicious software on PCs, nor is there an intent to disable computers or obtain money through fraud behind them), the method by which they're spread and their deceptiveness include elements of both those classes." The full details are here: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Harvesting-Teenagers/ The briefest summary was by a poster here: http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/tagged.com "They send you an email claiming someone you know has sent you pictures, even though that person did not. If you click on the link and are foolish enough to give them the information they say you need to provide to see these imaginary pictures, they will take the password to YOUR email account and send the same message to everyone in your address book. Hope everyone in it has a sense of humor about being sent a scam email. They enroll members through fraud. Regardless of whether they have done anything else to harm those people once they signed up, regardless of whether there was fine print explaining their business model, they lied about someone wanting to send you pictures. You know you will never be able to trust this site. " In other words, if you remain properly paranoid about providing your information online, they won't catch you.

"Is it my imagination, or did the kid just cover for him?" "This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship." "Do I detect a note of jealousy in your voice?" "You two can argue about this on your own time." "Very important research. What? I'm not laughing. I'm not." "Surrender or you will all be killed." "I feel privileged to be here with you at such a moment." "There is still much to do before we declare victory. Until we leave Federation space, we are vulnerable to" "I am the First. And I have declared victory." "That is, of course, your prerogative." "I wish I could be there with you, old man." "I'll send you a postcard. Tell Worf I look forward to hearing his poem."

"Is it my imagination, or did the kid just cover for him?" "This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship." "Do I detect a note of jealousy in your voice?" "You two can argue about this on your own time." "Very important research. What? I'm not laughing. I'm not." "Surrender or you will all be killed." "I feel privileged to be here with you at such a moment." "There is still much to do before we declare victory. Until we leave Federation space, we are vulnerable to" "I am the First. And I have declared victory." "That is, of course, your prerogative."

Martin Niemoeller said: "First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out- because I was not a communist. Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out- because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out- because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out- because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me- and there was no one left to speak out for me."

Next round..... "Is it my imagination, or did the kid just cover for him?" "This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship." "Do I detect a note of jealousy in your voice?" "You two can argue about this on your own time."

There was more than one type of purge, so there was more than one type of reason. In the "wonderland" threads, we found that vpw had occasionally (twice we know of) taken a Corps group, and kicked them out. In the case of the "Zero Corps", he let some of them re-apply for the "First Corps". (We don't know how many were offered this, nor how many, IF any, accepted.) In the case of a later Corps, vpw told them they'd be re-accepted if they wrote out this big loyalty letter and swore loyalty. "Most" of them did so. That was a loyalty thing, for the corps, which affected a relatively small number of people. The person it affected the MOST, however, was lcm who watched it happen. In 1988-1989, lcm rose from his fog, and the first thing he did was demand an oath of loyalty to him PERSONALLY. We know that's what he intended-PERSONALLY- because one of our posters phoned him and asked him directly. (Out There):"When I received the Loyalty letter in the mail I immediately called LCM and by some miracle after leaving a message he actually called me back. When I asked if this letter was a call to blindly follow him he said I had been doing this all along. I then told him that's what he thinks he could 'kiss my @$$'. I think I was dropped from the rolls of the Way Corps that next morning." As I see it, lcm learned from vpw that you could demand an oath of loyalty of people, and that most of them would fall in line if you did so. lcm learned this incorrectly, since this wasn't UNIVERSAL- vpw demanded it of people who were already personally loyal to HIM- they were in the Corps AND convinced (deceived) vpw was a godly minister doing what God wanted. They were a pre-screened group most likely to swear an oath of loyalty to him. In the case of lcm, he did it with a much LARGER group, not pre-screened. They were NOT convinced he was a godly minister doing what God wanted- not necessarily, and certainly not to the degree they thought that of vpw. My God, some people still think God would say of vpw (conman, rapist, pervert) "This is my beloved son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Something ONLY said of Jesus Christ HIMSELF.) lcm got many responses carefully qualified, saying, approximately, "I will stand with you as long as you stand on The Word." Those people were fired. Everybody who didn't swear an oath of loyalty to lcm PERSONALLY and WITHOUT QUALIFIER was fired. We know lcm thought people were supposed to "BLINDLY FOLLOW HIM" and that was SUPPOSED TO BE THE STATUS QUO. lcm didn't want leaders, he wanted mindless drones. lcm actually expected the majority of twi leadership- the people he initially directed this towards- to swear blind loyalty to him. But the people at the top, and thus all points coming downwards from there- all knew at least a LITTLE about there being problems, being reasons to be hesitant to invest blind loyalty in lcm in particular, even if they were likely to give blind loyalty in general. (GSC has had recaps of what was known more recently, for the forgetful and the new arrivals.) What happened? A lot of the top leadership- Regional, Limb/State, Territory, Branch, Corps, WOW vets, Advanced grads- all refused to swear blind loyalty to lcm, so he fired them. They all stayed in contact, since he fired nearly the entire twi framework, which largely remained intact and did their thing without lcm raving at them. About 80% of the people who were in twi before lcm drew his "line in the sand" left- 4 of every 5 people. The fastest way to see that was to see that the attendance at the next ROA was 20% of the previous year, and many of those people who DID attend were resolved this would be their LAST ROA. ================ After 1990 came more purges. The people who weren't blind followers had already left- except for the people who served UNDER the blind followers who were actively deceived by them as to what was going on. So the later purges were NOT about loyalty. "Witnessing" was to be focused on people who had "all their teeth" and their own cars and so on- effectively, people who had no needs, leaving only people who could be USED by twi and not be expected to need things in return. So, new arrivals were being SCREENED before they joined- which meant new arrivals arrived in MUCH smaller numbers. As to purging the people who were still around, and purging the new arrivals, I think there were lots of reasons, and the posts on this thread state them better than I could.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/biblestudy.asp

Congratulations on moving on!

Is this the Deep Space 9 episode where the station's security protocols kick in and think there's been a prison uprising and the Bajorans overran the Cardassians? Gul Dukat's voice was on the recordings that went off at each stage. I don't remember- clearly, at least- Quark and Odo trapped in the Constable's office.

I suspect the first quote, now that I recognize the second quote, was when Boss Grissom went back to his own office and spotted Jack alive, just before Napier reveals his new appearance as the Joker. (Jack Napier, jackanape, get it? No, I didn't get it either....)

Other than Fox, all the "sources" are BLOGS quoting Fox News. Wake me when someone reputable covers the story.